overland is to easy

mocap

@redspecter23

redspecter23 wrote: »

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase.

it discussed many times before - one alliance zone for beginners, two zones, three zones. But no! We have ALL ZONES including DLC and chapters for beginners. 2000+ quests according to uesp.net are for new players.

Is it fair for vet players? Or do you really think vet players deserve only "repeat this dungeon 1 billion times" content?

Fata1moose

They just need a veteran mode toggle for the overland like dungeons and trials have. That way newer players can play normally without being affected, those that want a greater challenge can play the overland on veteran. Obviously I'm simplifying it and I'd like to see more added to a veteran toggle (perhaps a survival mode).

haelene

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.

I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).

Not good enough. I want video of you doing it with proof that you don't have on set's, no CP allocated, no skills ect. Then I will believe you. Until I see that, all I've got is "because I said so".

Also it took you four full minutes for that one mob. 4.

That is not anywhere near what people are trying to pretend is happening.

You may see health, resistances and giant's dps in screenshot. That is more then enough to see how much of "threat" is overland. So far the only ways to die I see is either jumping from the cliff or be kicked off the server. If you at least move, you are already immortal.
If ZOS employee will confirm that they'll at least look at base game overland in terms of making it more challenging, I'll make such video, no problem.

And... you could have faked that screenshot. I don't trust pictures, video is much harder to fake.

Still if it's real, you took four minutes.

Four. For one mob.

Veinblood1965

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

You should be farming those glowing portals in Craglorn.

Yes those portals are super easy, great point.

MartiniDaniels

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

haelene

mocap wrote: »

@redspecter23

redspecter23 wrote: »

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase.

it discussed many times before - one alliance zone for beginners, two zones, three zones. But no! We have ALL ZONES including DLC and chapters for beginners. 2000+ quests according to uesp.net are for new players.

Is it fair for vet players? Or do you really think vet players deserve only "repeat this dungeon 1 billion times" content?

Then ask for more vet centric content, not a change that effects everyone else. I'd be fine with that.

And if you absolutely must have a vet overland - then no extra rewards, period. If it really is about "the challenge" then that should be fine, yeah?

Dusk_Coven

Another person who hasn't tried soloing Cralorn overland portals. Or Bittergreen. Or the the Fire Monk.
There are challenges. You just don't want THOSE challenges.
Instead you want to raise the difficulty just enough that you can still win and use that to justify getting more goodies.

Kiralyn2000

Fata1moose wrote: »

They just need a veteran mode toggle for the overland like dungeons and trials have. That way newer players can play normally without being affected, those that want a greater challenge can play the overland on veteran. Obviously I'm simplifying it and I'd like to see more added to a veteran toggle (perhaps a survival mode).

Thing is, for "veteran mode" to be an actual challenge for people who do dungeon & trial mechanics, they have to redo the mobs & their behavior. Different mob packs, doing actual 'mechanics' that veteran players would need to react to. Because the same overland behavior, but taking 10x the HP to kill & 5x the damage output, wouldn't be a challenge for them. Just a longer fight.

(this is why "just take off your CP and wear white gear" isn't a solution for giving "challenge" - the Skilled Players still have all their skill, and the lack of CP & gear just makes it take longer.)

redspecter23

mocap wrote: »

@redspecter23

redspecter23 wrote: »

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase.

it discussed many times before - one alliance zone for beginners, two zones, three zones. But no! We have ALL ZONES including DLC and chapters for beginners. 2000+ quests according to uesp.net are for new players.

Is it fair for vet players? Or do you really think vet players deserve only "repeat this dungeon 1 billion times" content?

I'm a vet player and I'm happy with the situation we have now.

srfrogg23

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.

mocap

and pls, don't tell that BS about Craglorn difficulty.
Super mega story boss of Craglorn has a whopping 67k HP ! Boi, damn overland trolls has 128k.

Kiralyn2000

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.

A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.

(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)

edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.

Kel

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Another person who hasn't tried soloing Cralorn overland portals. Or Bittergreen. Or the the Fire Monk.
There are challenges. You just don't want THOSE challenges.
Instead you want to raise the difficulty just enough that you can still win and use that to justify getting more goodies.

Have to agree.
"We want challenge" often turns into "oh yeah, we want better rewards too"

Weird. I thought the harder challenge WAS the reward.

cyclonus11

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere

You should be farming those glowing portals in Craglorn.

Yes those portals are super easy, great point.

The vast majority of players cannot solo those. Or the anomaly WBs.

mocap

just add overland Battle Spirit and everyone will be happy. New players will be unharmed, vet players can satisfy their challenge if want.

Dusk_Coven

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.

Especially with their secret advantage of CP.

Kiralyn2000

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.

Especially with their secret advantage of CP.

Even without CP! They know the game mechanics, they know how to manage their resources, they know canceling, they know the mobs' behaviors, etc.

MartiniDaniels

srfrogg23 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.

I tried it first time in my life after July patch notes. I enjoyed it so far, but I reached lvl60 and imagined amount of grind to reach level 120 and gave up. Also GAH was unbearable in comparison to ESO trading system. Actually I heard they plan to squeeze levels in new chapter, so I may gave it a shot, especially if ESO performance won't be fixed to Shadowlands release.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.

A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.

(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)

edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.

That's why each time conclusion is that we need different instances of overland. It will be good even for newbies, because 810 CP won't storm in public dungeon wiping everything in their way and leaving newbies without bosses to kill for gear and achievement.

martinhpb16_ESO

I agree its is too easy and therefore boring. I gave up on overland several patches ago. Tried again when Necro came out but gave up.

I have often thought why would a creature or monster attack anyone when it has next to no chance of winning.

There is a reason why most creatures run from something stronger in RL.

What we need is a method of choice HM & NM for those that want it

haelene

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.

I tried it first time in my life after July patch notes. I enjoyed it so far, but I reached lvl60 and imagined amount of grind to reach level 120 and gave up. Also GAH was unbearable in comparison to ESO trading system. Actually I heard they plan to squeeze levels in new chapter, so I may gave it a shot, especially if ESO performance won't be fixed to Shadowlands release.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.

A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.

(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)

edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.

That's why each time conclusion is that we need different instances of overland. It will be good even for newbies, because 810 CP won't storm in public dungeon wiping everything in their way and leaving newbies without bosses to kill for gear and achievement.

As long as it has the same rewards and doesn't slow down server performance for the rest of us because of too many instances - sure.

Dusk_Coven

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

What we need is a method of choice HM & NM for those that want it

White Acute.
SWTOR has this item that you can equip to turn off event double xp because apparently enough people felt that levelling too fast ruined their enjoyment.
Something similar could be done, like a "Cursed" set of monster helm/shoulder. Wear one to turn off CP, wear another to apply some kind of debuff, wear both to get both debuffs.

MartiniDaniels

haelene wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.

I tried it first time in my life after July patch notes. I enjoyed it so far, but I reached lvl60 and imagined amount of grind to reach level 120 and gave up. Also GAH was unbearable in comparison to ESO trading system. Actually I heard they plan to squeeze levels in new chapter, so I may gave it a shot, especially if ESO performance won't be fixed to Shadowlands release.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.

A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.

(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)

edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.

That's why each time conclusion is that we need different instances of overland. It will be good even for newbies, because 810 CP won't storm in public dungeon wiping everything in their way and leaving newbies without bosses to kill for gear and achievement.

As long as it has the same rewards and doesn't slow down server performance for the rest of us because of too many instances - sure.

There are already multiple instances, so I believe this solution won't impact performance. Great that we agree on this, now we only need ZOS to implement this

(this is how all this threads are ending usually)

haelene

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

What we need is a method of choice HM & NM for those that want it

White Acute.
SWTOR has this item that you can equip to turn off event double xp because apparently enough people felt that levelling too fast ruined their enjoyment.
Something similar could be done, like a "Cursed" set of monster helm/shoulder. Wear one to turn off CP, wear another to apply some kind of debuff, wear both to get both debuffs.

Ah, but there will still be people claiming they can one shot (or "kill in seconds") mobs even with those shackles, and asking for more. It's already happening now.

martinhpb16_ESO

redspecter23 wrote: »

Spoiler Alert!

Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.

This is the inevitable reply and in my opinion wrong.

First off, its and opinion. It is nowhere written that overland is only for the causal player base.

Why must all of the overland content be only suitable for the casual player base?

Its a counter intuitive and flawed argument. Why continuously develop content that is only suitable for new causal players, when there is already plenty to keep them busy. What happens when they become experienced? If Zos had sense they would provide overland for vet players too as not everyone is able to get into groups for vet dungeons or likes pvp. And you as part of the player community would recognise that some of your fellows are not being catered for and would concede that this is a shortfall in the game.

Why was it challenging for a number of years before One Tamriel?

Also you have agreed with the OP. You are saying that overland is too easy and does not cater for us. Therefore unlike all other content which has normal mode, hard and vet modes overland does not . Therefore this content is not catering for customers who are paying for it.

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with players who want difficult overland, asking for it.

haelene

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.

I tried it first time in my life after July patch notes. I enjoyed it so far, but I reached lvl60 and imagined amount of grind to reach level 120 and gave up. Also GAH was unbearable in comparison to ESO trading system. Actually I heard they plan to squeeze levels in new chapter, so I may gave it a shot, especially if ESO performance won't be fixed to Shadowlands release.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.

A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.

(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)

edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.

That's why each time conclusion is that we need different instances of overland. It will be good even for newbies, because 810 CP won't storm in public dungeon wiping everything in their way and leaving newbies without bosses to kill for gear and achievement.

As long as it has the same rewards and doesn't slow down server performance for the rest of us because of too many instances - sure.

There are already multiple instances, so I believe this solution won't impact performance. Great that we agree on this, now we only need ZOS to implement this

(this is how all this threads are ending usually)

There's only so many the server can handle - and you're asking to double what we have now. That will undoubtedly have an effect. Unless ZOS can commit to ensuring it won't slow things down (which they can't, they can't even handle the amount of instances we can create just from an event), then no, we do not agree.

martinhpb16_ESO

haelene wrote: »

If you like hard content, do the hard content.

Not every piece of content in this game needs to cater to you. It's an mmo - there are other people playing, and not everyone plays to be challenged.

Not every piece of overland content needs to cater to people who like easy content. Double standards comes to mind

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

You’d be hard pressed to find a method of increasing overland difficulty without making enemies HP sponges or dealing inflated damage, as combat ultimately boils down to a numbers game . And is it really ’difficulty’ at that point, or just tedious? Especially when the penalty for dying is negligible anyway.

Saying that, it might be fun to explore an ‘alternate’ timeline version of zones where the anchors have taken hold and overrun the zone with hordes of enemies... but the game is already held together by duct tape.

srfrogg23

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.

I tried it first time in my life after July patch notes. I enjoyed it so far, but I reached lvl60 and imagined amount of grind to reach level 120 and gave up. Also GAH was unbearable in comparison to ESO trading system. Actually I heard they plan to squeeze levels in new chapter, so I may gave it a shot, especially if ESO performance won't be fixed to Shadowlands release.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?

Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?

WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.

Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.

A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.

(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)

edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.

That's why each time conclusion is that we need different instances of overland. It will be good even for newbies, because 810 CP won't storm in public dungeon wiping everything in their way and leaving newbies without bosses to kill for gear and achievement.

Sounds good. Go play WoW. I promise you won't find that game "to easy". Nope. Super challenging game right there.

martinhpb16_ESO

haelene wrote: »

If you like hard content, do the hard content.

It's an mmo - there are other people playing, and not everyone plays to be challenged.

Video or it never happened

Vhozek

"people struggle with the current overland"

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA