My two cents
- I kind like the poison effects even if the animations are terribile.
- The shield increased damage is too low and kind wortless.
- i've pvp'ed a little and even if i'm quite bad at pvp i was able to stand in my ground against the arena/legends dudes, i was in Heavy Armor and the damage output was good.
- dragonblood is nothing good and i will use it only as a pve tank.
Overhall nothing changed for Me Since i use a mag dk but i will switch in Heavy Armor when the patch drop live.

Something to improve:
Gives us a cheap magica ultimate
Remove Dragonblood and put something useful instead
Increase the damage of the whip
Gives us the old inferno/flames of oblivion
Increase the overhall shield strenght.

Still better +25% fom mighty bonuss to dmg than 7% from race. My poisonknight love this changes.

Lol, idk. I just don't get it.

Vangy wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Paragraphs help. I don't think you seem to get that 25% from mighty is bigger than 7% from your racial passive

You can have both racial and mighty. And new changes made flame damage talent useless for stamknight which is going to be meta in pvp since magicka is pretty much meh. That's why dunmers are upset. Is this so hard to grasp for you?

Elaborate please? If anything these changes were made to IMPROVE stamknight..... Yeah you cant have both racial and mighty but at least now you get 25% from mighty instead of just 7% from racial. Now im geniunely wondering if im crazy...

Banner ulti, flames of oblivion and other class abilities that deal flame damage still get that 7% buff from dunmers....

Magicka DKs arent going anywhere, I promise. There will be some bandwagoners and some genuinely curious that swap back to stam, but Magicka is good, very good, and is going to stay that way.

So tired of chicken little posts regarding Magicka DK.

Heavy Armor Magicka DKs spamming Igneous shield, Harness Magicka, Healing Ward, Draw Essence, and Devouring swarm while essentially permablocking are going to be impossible to bring down. Mark these words.

I've duelled a couple of hours on a stam dk and my fndings so far:

1. The new dots are strong but they feel terrible. The visual effect is very light and somehow there seems to be zero sound feedback for me whatsoever. This isn't a problem balance-wise but makes the build less enjoyable to me - and much harder to play with the abysmal latency from Europe.

2. Non-class abilities are so strong, they are must-haves and i took them over dk abilities without doubt. With Vigor, shuffle, dawnbreaker, now even beast trap and ofc all kinds of weapon skills - who needs stuff like dragon blood, cinder strom, talons. Reflect ings may be useful outside duels but I didn't feel like slotting them, at least. This affects all stam builds, btw. Want to play around an incredibly good purge with major mending? Go TP. Want resource sustain from ult and very nice passives with volatile armor up? Go DK (the dots are a minor factor at best). Want to be squishy but deal immense damage go NB with incapitating.Stam classes are best built around 1-3 class skills mixed with incredibly strong (vigor with major mending and buffs to healing received is just crazy) non-class abilities

3. Poisons are just crazy. This is not DK related but fighting a long fight can burn through more than a hundred pisons (and I dont know how to unqiup them mid fight). Further they decide battles. Comparing one build to another in the same duell? You can feel some difference but not that much. Swap poisons or have enemy swap poisons? A whole different battle. Especially the immovable poison can turn fights into shuffle spam or die.

In summary, I felt balance was somewhat appropriate. The way it work out, wasn't that great: Strong stuff is non-class, new spells have lame visual and terrible audio feedback and poisons were more important that say, switching between medium and heavy armo

Vangy wrote: »

I get you dont get to use the 7% bonus to fire damage racial passive. BUT.... You get to double dip into mighty and thamaturge for your ardent flame abilities. + things like weapon enchants, valkyns skoria proc, STANDARD OF MIGHT etc still get boosted by dunmer passive. Overall you should see a HUGE net DPS gain with this change.

I still cant comprehend why dunmer stam dks are complaining. Changes are BOOSTING YOUR OVERALL DPS.

And NO. Dunmer stam DK was NEVER fantastic. Its a sub par choice. Kinda like making a khajit tank. Best stam DKs in order imo are;

1. Redguard
2. Imperial
3. Bosmer/dunmer

Dunmer DKs for stamina were never a fantastic choice for DKs unless you intend on only playing without CP on the no-cp campaign.

They finally fixed the Khajiit passive it seems in the PTS.
Now, the DPS gain from 8% crit is 4% minimum. It can be boosted upto 10% by increasing crit damage. The gain of DPS from 10% extra stamina is 2.2%. So statistically if the Khajiit passive works when DB goes live, Khajiit would be the best race.

So useful racial benefits are:

Khajiit : 4-10% extra DPS, 10% stamina regen at all times
Redguard : 2.2% extra DPS, 9% stamina regen in combat, Adrenaline rush which is equivalent to 7-14% stamina regen depending on how often you manage to proc it
Bosmer : 0.67% extra DPS, 21% stamina regen at all times
Imperial : 2.2 extra DPS, 10% more health

In the end, the overall result is not very different, regardless of class choice. If you are struggling with sustain, go Bosmer. You can balance DPS and sustain with Redguard. If your health is an issue go Imperial. If you can manage both health and sustain, and want to squeeze the best numbers out of your Stamina DK go Khajiit.

Just for he record everyone saying this patch doesn't affect mDK for pvp please be careful because some people may have built their mDK around specific abilities I.e proxy and that did take a hit. After comparing Stam DK and MDK in the PTS I can say I performed better on the Stam DK (mind you I suck at dueling) compared to the mDK. Targets just dropped much much faster using the Stam DK.

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I get you dont get to use the 7% bonus to fire damage racial passive. BUT.... You get to double dip into mighty and thamaturge for your ardent flame abilities. + things like weapon enchants, valkyns skoria proc, STANDARD OF MIGHT etc still get boosted by dunmer passive. Overall you should see a HUGE net DPS gain with this change.

I still cant comprehend why dunmer stam dks are complaining. Changes are BOOSTING YOUR OVERALL DPS.

And NO. Dunmer stam DK was NEVER fantastic. Its a sub par choice. Kinda like making a khajit tank. Best stam DKs in order imo are;

1. Redguard
2. Imperial
3. Bosmer/dunmer

Dunmer DKs for stamina were never a fantastic choice for DKs unless you intend on only playing without CP on the no-cp campaign.

They finally fixed the Khajiit passive it seems in the PTS.
Now, the DPS gain from 8% crit is 4% minimum. It can be boosted upto 10% by increasing crit damage. The gain of DPS from 10% extra stamina is 2.2%. So statistically if the Khajiit passive works when DB goes live, Khajiit would be the best race.

So useful racial benefits are:

Khajiit : 4-10% extra DPS, 10% stamina regen at all times
Redguard : 2.2% extra DPS, 9% stamina regen in combat, Adrenaline rush which is equivalent to 7-14% stamina regen depending on how often you manage to proc it
Bosmer : 0.67% extra DPS, 21% stamina regen at all times
Imperial : 2.2 extra DPS, 10% more health

In the end, the overall result is not very different, regardless of class choice. If you are struggling with sustain, go Bosmer. You can balance DPS and sustain with Redguard. If your health is an issue go Imperial. If you can manage both health and sustain, and want to squeeze the best numbers out of your Stamina DK go Khajiit.

I don't know where your getting your numbers from man but a khajiit DK outfitted exactly the same as an imperial DK. The imperial will hit harder because he has more Stam = more dps. Just because crit is "increased from khajiit passive" does not mean more if the imperial is already around 50% plus popping a potion if need be. A crit is just double the non crit damage. At least that's what I thought. Could be wrong though.

Unless you have a different theory?

1) Stamina scaling DPS - Stamina scales with 1 dmg per at least 8 stamina for highest scaling direct attack types (0.128 scale) and usually like 1 dmg per 12 stamina for average direct attack types (0.084 scale). For DoTs it is the same for the highest scaling ones (0.128). But for the rest it is 1 per 16 stamina (0.064 scale).
Now consider a character without racial passives at 36k stamina. With Imperial/Redguard extra stamina of 10%, he gets 3600 extra stamina. With it he will get 3600/12 or 300 extra damage if he uses low scaling direct attacks and 3600/8 or 450 extra damage if he uses high scaling direct attacks. Now consider he is running 2 high scaling DoTs (like Poison Injection) and 1 weak DoT, and 1 DoT that is unaffected by stamina (like Poison status effect and enchantment procs). He gets 3600/8*2 + 3600/16 or 900 extra total damage on high scaling DoTs and 225 on low scaling DoTs. Now most high scaling DoTs have durations of 9 secs and most low scaling DoTs have durations of around 5 sec. Then you get total of 900/9 + 225/5 or 145 DoT damage per second.

Average DPS of maxed Stamina DK without any racial bonus to DPS- 33k per second

Bonus DPS from max stamina increase passives of Imperial/Redguard = 300+125 to 450+125 = 425 to 575 depending on relative scaling of skills in his rotations

Bonus in percentage increase of DPS = 425/33000*100 to 575/33000*100 = 1.29% to 1.75%

Now if someone uses all high scaling direct attacks and DoTs, then they can get a 2.2% increase at max

Increase in DPS by Imperial/Redguard = 1.28-2.20%

2) Scaling of DPS by critical hit chance - Critical hits can increase the damage of DPS by a flat 50% on top of all other damage increase mechanics. The increase percent of the damage can also be boosted. This is a linear mechanic and affects the final damage of the hit, essentially overriding all other mechanics.

So minimum DPS increase by 8% extra crit chance of Khajiit = 8*50% = 4%

Now maximum critical damage bonus percentage for DKs = 50(base) + 19(7 legendary divides Shadow Mundus) + 25(Max Precise Strikes CP) + 30(Major Force) + 10(Minor Force) = 134%

So maximum DPS increase by 8% extra crit chance of Khajiit = 8*134% = 10.72%

Increase in DPS by Khajiit = 4-10.72%

@DUTCH_REAPER I think this will help you understand it.

I took what was my Vet 13 Imperial stamina DK for a run yesterday. I put Vet 14/15/16 armor/weapons on her (5 hundings and 5 vipers sting) and took a run around Wrothgar.

I didn't care to much for the poison animations, but I did like the most important part (the poison damage). I'm getting 8200 poison damage from vipers 5 piece ( I had not used this gear in a long while).............and poison damage from skills was VERY good!

Two thumbs up from me.

The request for more stamina morphs is always going to be there but the logical conclusion if fulfilled will be that nothing has a morph. All magical dks will be the same and all stamina dks will be the same. There really needs to be some external dedication to stamina or magicka that results in all class skills and morphs becoming either stam or magicka. Perhaps even a subsequent elemental dedication that changes the element of a skill. Obviously not now but I think you need to begin considering it for the future or all morph choices will be dryed up.

Daraugh wrote: »

So could we please have a response about the projectile vomit animation that Noxious Breath has now? Along with the Searing Strike stam morph "poop claw" and the ultimate dubbed "rot flesh bubble"? There's a thread here that is also goes into a lot of discussion about the new animations.

@ZOS_GinaBruno when you have a moment? If one of those ever comes along lol

It really doesn't have a projectile vomit animation, your character does the exact same animation it always did for burning breath, all that's changed is instead of flame they have stolen the zombie mob puke effect, and it looks so ridiculous and out of place that I have no doubt it's a placeholder until they have the new effect ready.

Early days, the PTS hasn't even been up a week yet and there are a LOT of little unfinished looking things, this is surely one of them.

I also hope they update the poison ability icons to match the skill updates.

Recremen wrote: »

quadraxis666 wrote: »

Daraugh wrote: »

So could we please have a response about the projectile vomit animation that Noxious Breath has now? Along with the Searing Strike stam morph "poop claw" and the ultimate dubbed "rot flesh bubble"? There's a thread here that is also goes into a lot of discussion about the new animations.

@ZOS_GinaBruno when you have a moment? If one of those ever comes along lol

It really doesn't have a projectile vomit animation, your character does the exact same animation it always did for burning breath, all that's changed is instead of flame they have stolen the zombie mob puke effect, and it looks so ridiculous and out of place that I have no doubt it's a placeholder until they have the new effect ready.

Early days, the PTS hasn't even been up a week yet and there are a LOT of little unfinished looking things, this is surely one of them.

It does have the projectile vomit animation and it's not quite the zombie puke animation, I find it even more grotesque. It's a huge cone of both green vapor and small to medium splats of puke effect, all shooting out in less than a second like some kind of deranged Family Guy episode. It's completely out of touch with the class aesthetic, though I admit the damage type is fine since it's a decent boost to DPS.

Again it really doesn't have a projectile vomit animation, the character animation hasn't changed at all, just the effect coming from the character. They haven't created a new projectile puke animation which leads me to believe the current effect is a placeholder only, as I already said.
Just to be especially pedantic here's a video showing my Stam DK use Noxious Breath, then my Magicka DK use Engulfing Flame, Then both videos overlaid on top of eachother so you can watch both abilities in sync.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5gY62W19JA

susmitds wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I get you dont get to use the 7% bonus to fire damage racial passive. BUT.... You get to double dip into mighty and thamaturge for your ardent flame abilities. + things like weapon enchants, valkyns skoria proc, STANDARD OF MIGHT etc still get boosted by dunmer passive. Overall you should see a HUGE net DPS gain with this change.

I still cant comprehend why dunmer stam dks are complaining. Changes are BOOSTING YOUR OVERALL DPS.

And NO. Dunmer stam DK was NEVER fantastic. Its a sub par choice. Kinda like making a khajit tank. Best stam DKs in order imo are;

1. Redguard
2. Imperial
3. Bosmer/dunmer

Dunmer DKs for stamina were never a fantastic choice for DKs unless you intend on only playing without CP on the no-cp campaign.

They finally fixed the Khajiit passive it seems in the PTS.
Now, the DPS gain from 8% crit is 4% minimum. It can be boosted upto 10% by increasing crit damage. The gain of DPS from 10% extra stamina is 2.2%. So statistically if the Khajiit passive works when DB goes live, Khajiit would be the best race.

So useful racial benefits are:

Khajiit : 4-10% extra DPS, 10% stamina regen at all times
Redguard : 2.2% extra DPS, 9% stamina regen in combat, Adrenaline rush which is equivalent to 7-14% stamina regen depending on how often you manage to proc it
Bosmer : 0.67% extra DPS, 21% stamina regen at all times
Imperial : 2.2 extra DPS, 10% more health

In the end, the overall result is not very different, regardless of class choice. If you are struggling with sustain, go Bosmer. You can balance DPS and sustain with Redguard. If your health is an issue go Imperial. If you can manage both health and sustain, and want to squeeze the best numbers out of your Stamina DK go Khajiit.

I don't know where your getting your numbers from man but a khajiit DK outfitted exactly the same as an imperial DK. The imperial will hit harder because he has more Stam = more dps. Just because crit is "increased from khajiit passive" does not mean more if the imperial is already around 50% plus popping a potion if need be. A crit is just double the non crit damage. At least that's what I thought. Could be wrong though.

Unless you have a different theory?

1) Stamina scaling DPS - Stamina scales with 1 dmg per at least 8 stamina for highest scaling direct attack types (0.128 scale) and usually like 1 dmg per 12 stamina for average direct attack types (0.084 scale). For DoTs it is the same for the highest scaling ones (0.128). But for the rest it is 1 per 16 stamina (0.064 scale).
Now consider a character without racial passives at 36k stamina. With Imperial/Redguard extra stamina of 10%, he gets 3600 extra stamina. With it he will get 3600/12 or 300 extra damage if he uses low scaling direct attacks and 3600/8 or 450 extra damage if he uses high scaling direct attacks. Now consider he is running 2 high scaling DoTs (like Poison Injection) and 1 weak DoT, and 1 DoT that is unaffected by stamina (like Poison status effect and enchantment procs). He gets 3600/8*2 + 3600/16 or 900 extra total damage on high scaling DoTs and 225 on low scaling DoTs. Now most high scaling DoTs have durations of 9 secs and most low scaling DoTs have durations of around 5 sec. Then you get total of 900/9 + 225/5 or 145 DoT damage per second.

Average DPS of maxed Stamina DK without any racial bonus to DPS- 33k per second

Bonus DPS from max stamina increase passives of Imperial/Redguard = 300+125 to 450+125 = 425 to 575 depending on relative scaling of skills in his rotations

Bonus in percentage increase of DPS = 425/33000*100 to 575/33000*100 = 1.29% to 1.75%

Now if someone uses all high scaling direct attacks and DoTs, then they can get a 2.2% increase at max

Increase in DPS by Imperial/Redguard = 1.28-2.20%

2) Scaling of DPS by critical hit chance - Critical hits can increase the damage of DPS by a flat 50% on top of all other damage increase mechanics. The increase percent of the damage can also be boosted. This is a linear mechanic and affects the final damage of the hit, essentially overriding all other mechanics.

So minimum DPS increase by 8% extra crit chance of Khajiit = 8*50% = 4%

Now maximum critical damage bonus percentage for DKs = 50(base) + 19(7 legendary divides Shadow Mundus) + 25(Max Precise Strikes CP) + 30(Major Force) + 10(Minor Force) = 134%

So maximum DPS increase by 8% extra crit chance of Khajiit = 8*134% = 10.72%

Increase in DPS by Khajiit = 4-10.72%

@DUTCH_REAPER I think this will help you understand it.

Holy biscuits and gravy. Thanks for the schooling.