Upcoming siege changes in next major update

josh.lackey_ESO · January 2016

Can we please get the XP needed to morph Alliance War skills adjusted to the rate for Vigor and Magicka Detonation? I'm thinking this might not be a complete nightmare (especially in non-vet) if people can actually morph their Siege Shield. It is a real feat to morph right now.

allmoney01 · January 2016

The dot on seige is too strong not to purge, one bolt will kill all. I like the idea of the debuffs being unpurgable, now you can actually defend a keep with 10 people against a zerg

Kymee · January 2016

I am really, really, really, looking forward to these changes. I appreciate your continued efforts to make PVP fun and entertaining for all factions. I can just imagine the field battles with some of these in play. As always thanks for a great game, your hard work, and the awesome time I have had playing... I expect it just to keep getting better!

Kibbles
Nefarious

hakunamatadab16_ESO2 · January 2016

Know what else will make zergs stronger? People with toons from different factions will be able to home all their toons in the same campaign. PvP in this game is broken beyond repair.
Subscription dropped.
Tapping out.

Cinbri · January 2016

@ZOS_BrianWheeler can you tell us for now about team decision regarding City Capture?

Keiryan · January 2016

One idea that's been mentioned before that I think is worth consideration considering how powerful siege is going to become is that siege should require multiple people to operate.. sort of in the same way rams are. Anyone have thoughts on that? @ZOS_BrianWheeler

ZOS_BrianWheeler · January 2016

We have thought about multiple operators on Trebuchets and Catapults but that will take a bit of engineering/UI work to make that function well. There are plans for introducing new weapons in the future that will play well with multiple operators and when we're ready to give the details on those we will

No update on City capture in Cyrodiil other than it's still being discussed, however Imperial City district capture is also on the table.

We are finalizing the discussions on whether or not the siege side effects are purgable or not and will hinge greatly on what the final design is on Purge itself. When that's nailed down, we'll let you know here!

Weberda · January 2016

You guys can discuss it all you want Brian but the fact remains that defensive siege is currently worthless causing immense frustration to many of us. Most of the time we don't even bother with it anymore. And it's one of the causes for PvP bleeding more and more players especially the long time ones. Why it's taken so long for you guys to realize this and fix it is beyond comprehension for many of us.

karldavy149b16_ESO · January 2016

Ffastyl wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

All side effects from siege weapons (snare, healing taken reduction, siege damage increase taken) are no longer purgable.

Oil Catapults will now also have a "Stamina damage" value added, which takes away roughly 5000 Stamina from enemy targets.

Lightning Ballista will now also have a "Magicka Damage" value added, which takes away roughly 5000 Magicka from enemy targets.

Awesome
Awesome
Awesome

Great changes!
As long as siege is still slow (and therefore easily avoidable) the concerns above are unfounded.

Love Wizard wrote: »

Not being able to purge meatbag? Let the elder sieges online commence

Elder Siege Online was awesome fun back in the day! Just remember to buff NPC Guard siege defense, Wheeler!

i have to agree the big aoe marker on the ground kinda makes this a mute point imo ... im new to pvp but i know this much stand in red long enough some bad *** gona happen

Niaver · January 2016

So you are discussing right? You discuss city capture, you discuss IC districts capture, you discuss battlegrounds, you discuss how to fix pvp lag and fps drop. But right now pvp is unplayable.

What are the actual things you are working at right now?

Weberda · January 2016

Niaver wrote: »

So you are discussing right? You discuss city capture, you discuss IC districts capture, you discuss battlegrounds, you discuss how to fix pvp lag and fps drop. But right now pvp is unplayable.

What are the actual things you are working at right now?

"Who's bringing the doughnuts to the next discussion?"

FatKidHatchets · January 2016

I love PvP and look forward to all future changes. Especially the big ones that change the game.

HeroOfNone · January 2016

For those PVPers that don't visit the general forums or those that missed it, My 2015 year end suggestions expanding on these upcoming siege changes and expanding the magicka/stamina damaging system to armor sets, abilities, and more.

Thanks @ZOS_BrianWheeler for opening the door to this and hope to see this grow further in 2016

Joy_Division · January 2016

hakunamatadab16_ESO2 wrote: »

Know what else will make zergs stronger? People with toons from different factions will be able to home all their toons in the same campaign. PvP in this game is broken beyond repair.
Subscription dropped.
Tapping out.

I'm not quite seeing the logic here. My blue toon homes Trueflame. I play on Azura's with its zergballs every night.

As long as the damage from player abilities is capped, balling together into a group is going to be rewarded. While many people are optimsitically looking forward to the siege buff as a solution to this problem, there will not be hundreds of enemy siege operators all over cyrodiil dissuading ball groups to spread out. Only in specific situations will this come into play; 9 times out of 10 in an open field fight you won't be able to coordinate those shiny new siege weapons to bust down the pain trains, which will still enjoy free significant damage reduction from your abilities.

The-Baconator · January 2016

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have thought about multiple operators on Trebuchets and Catapults but that will take a bit of engineering/UI work to make that function well. There are plans for introducing new weapons in the future that will play well with multiple operators and when we're ready to give the details on those we will

No update on City capture in Cyrodiil other than it's still being discussed, however Imperial City district capture is also on the table.

We are finalizing the discussions on whether or not the siege side effects are purgable or not and will hinge greatly on what the final design is on Purge itself. When that's nailed down, we'll let you know here!

I really hope you guys address how powerful purge spam is rather than making siege OP. The biggest issue with siege currently is that one person in a group of 20 people spamming purge renders most siege effects irrelevant, it is too powerful of a counter to be as easy to use and as spammable as it is. I would much rather see purge capped at a respectable number, perhaps 12, and make it so that an individual can only utilize the purge effect from any given ability (meaning dark cloak\purifying\etc could have their own timers) every 6 seconds or so. That would still punish players who don't bother to stay out of siege while leaving room for intelligent play that could mitigate SOME of the effects of siege SOME of the time.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · January 2016

@Niaver Since you asked, here's what we're doing right now. Feel free to use the search function to find many of the updates we've discussed on the forums recently regarding updates to PVP.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2438329/#Comment_2438329

Laggus · January 2016

I agree overall with these changes but good luck getting small groups or large ones out of a Resource tower once they get a couple siege setup inside. Tower farmers wet dream. Need to change ground floor of towers so siege cant be setup covering the door.

Enodoc · January 2016

Laggus wrote: »

I agree overall with these changes but good luck getting small groups or large ones out of a Resource tower once they get a couple siege setup inside. Tower farmers wet dream. Need to change ground floor of towers so siege cant be setup covering the door.

Simple. Flag in the tower, have to destroy the tower before you can cap the resource, nowhere for tower farmers to hide.

Keiryan · January 2016

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have thought about multiple operators on Trebuchets and Catapults but that will take a bit of engineering/UI work to make that function well. There are plans for introducing new weapons in the future that will play well with multiple operators and when we're ready to give the details on those we will

No update on City capture in Cyrodiil other than it's still being discussed, however Imperial City district capture is also on the table.

We are finalizing the discussions on whether or not the siege side effects are purgable or not and will hinge greatly on what the final design is on Purge itself. When that's nailed down, we'll let you know here!

Thanks for the answer.. i would think it would be something similar to the coding of the way a ram operates... it needs X number of people to move and X number of people to make it fire... it sort of seems like the engineering/UI is already in place just on a different item.. but what do i know :?

Being able to whip down 4 stone trebs and load them up with rocks that presumably weigh 10x my characters weight and turn and fire them all by myself is definitely a 10/10 ruining of my immersion. WTB Capturable siege points that you use an NPC to designate specific spots where it sends out little siege NPCs to construct siege and fire it for you... and then you have to defend your siege factory and the siege NPCs. Cause lets be honest.. who actually enjoys sieging walls? @ZOS_BrianWheeler

PainfulFAFA · January 2016

Keiryan wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have thought about multiple operators on Trebuchets and Catapults but that will take a bit of engineering/UI work to make that function well. There are plans for introducing new weapons in the future that will play well with multiple operators and when we're ready to give the details on those we will

No update on City capture in Cyrodiil other than it's still being discussed, however Imperial City district capture is also on the table.

We are finalizing the discussions on whether or not the siege side effects are purgable or not and will hinge greatly on what the final design is on Purge itself. When that's nailed down, we'll let you know here!

Thanks for the answer.. i would think it would be something similar to the coding of the way a ram operates... it needs X number of people to move and X number of people to make it fire... it sort of seems like the engineering/UI is already in place just on a different item.. but what do i know :?

Being able to whip down 4 stone trebs and load them up with rocks that presumably weigh 10x my characters weight and turn and fire them all by myself is definitely a 10/10 ruining of my immersion. WTB Capturable siege points that you use an NPC to designate specific spots where it sends out little siege NPCs to construct siege and fire it for you... and then you have to defend your siege factory and the siege NPCs. Cause lets be honest.. who actually enjoys sieging walls? @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Let me just reiterate incase zos doesnt get the msg:
What does sieging walls look like and feel like?

Absolutely boring and a complete turn off. When im in TS and my leader says " alright we're gonna go all the way over there and siege it" i can't help but cringe...

Capturable Siege Points sounds very interesting!
Now what would that look like?

HELL YEAH! Another way to spread people up by having siege factories to speed up a boring chore!
People will acutally fight during a siege instead of just standing around clicking away at a wall!
Zos why hasnt this been implemented yet? Resources are completely pointless. Whats the point of cutting off transit with 3 resources when people can simply bloodport their way there? Or the fact that taking 1 resources just grabs everyone's attention in the map?

Keiryan · January 2016

This glorious idea was not of my own, @caeliusstarbreaker came up with it and made a post only a few days ago that seems to have been quickly shuffled down the list in place of videos and pvp drama. He would probably have more to add. I'm all fine with siege changes and what not but I don't understand why developers seem to be focused on siege as opposed to adding in more content. Siege has been reworked how many times? Does your salary depend on how many times you can rework a system as opposed to implementing new ones?

caeliusstarbreaker · January 2016

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/238770/what-if-hypothetically-cyrodiil-and-siege-worked-like-this#latest

Laggus · January 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

I agree overall with these changes but good luck getting small groups or large ones out of a Resource tower once they get a couple siege setup inside. Tower farmers wet dream. Need to change ground floor of towers so siege cant be setup covering the door.

Simple. Flag in the tower, have to destroy the tower before you can cap the resource, nowhere for tower farmers to hide.

Rarely ever has worked in the past. 9 times out of 10 someone will be capping the flag while everyone else yells at them to get off it.

Enodoc · January 2016

Laggus wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

I agree overall with these changes but good luck getting small groups or large ones out of a Resource tower once they get a couple siege setup inside. Tower farmers wet dream. Need to change ground floor of towers so siege cant be setup covering the door.

Simple. Flag in the tower, have to destroy the tower before you can cap the resource, nowhere for tower farmers to hide.

Rarely ever has worked in the past. 9 times out of 10 someone will be capping the flag while everyone else yells at them to get off it.

What do you mean? The proposal is new, it can't have worked in the past because the situation of the flag being in the tower has never existed.

frozywozy · January 2016

Keiryan wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have thought about multiple operators on Trebuchets and Catapults but that will take a bit of engineering/UI work to make that function well. There are plans for introducing new weapons in the future that will play well with multiple operators and when we're ready to give the details on those we will

No update on City capture in Cyrodiil other than it's still being discussed, however Imperial City district capture is also on the table.

We are finalizing the discussions on whether or not the siege side effects are purgable or not and will hinge greatly on what the final design is on Purge itself. When that's nailed down, we'll let you know here!

Thanks for the answer.. i would think it would be something similar to the coding of the way a ram operates... it needs X number of people to move and X number of people to make it fire... it sort of seems like the engineering/UI is already in place just on a different item.. but what do i know :?

Being able to whip down 4 stone trebs and load them up with rocks that presumably weigh 10x my characters weight and turn and fire them all by myself is definitely a 10/10 ruining of my immersion. WTB Capturable siege points that you use an NPC to designate specific spots where it sends out little siege NPCs to construct siege and fire it for you... and then you have to defend your siege factory and the siege NPCs. Cause lets be honest.. who actually enjoys sieging walls? @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I've been playing the game since release and I still don't find it boring to siege keeps and everything related to map control.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one either!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler - in the last ZenimaxOnlineStudio official live stream podcast, you mentioned that you guys finally nailed the siege changes and are going to implement them in the next DLC coming up (Thieve's guild) in february. Any eta on when we will get the crunchy details?

ZOS_BrianWheeler · January 2016

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

_Chaos · January 2016

Sucks to be Magicka DPS now, gonna need a lot more purges slotted

Stacked with stam pools able to be drained, it's going to make for quite the learning curve. I'm curious to see how long we take to adapt as a community.

Zheg · January 2016

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

So, people are just going to realize even sooner it's more effective to run a ton of oil catapults and completely eliminate any non-stam build's stamina pools in 2 hits? Still not budging on the 5k stam per hit, no cooldown insanity eh? Just out of curiosity, how much stamina do you think a magicka dps/healer actually run?

sneakymitchell · January 2016

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

That's good so that vampires will have to worry of fire ballistas. Quite a bit since imperial city update and growing too. This will help. But my question is on the DoTs with Dks or other abilities. DoTs are pretty weak after imperial city cause it can be purged or removed easy and does so little damage since the 50% reduction. I just wish that DoTs not have that much effect over battle spirit buff of 50% reduction on players. So you will see DoTs time to time instead of hit the player with the strongest abilitie the instant damage DPS .

Xsorus · January 2016

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

This is just going to lead to more purge spamming most likely. Thus negating the change... Basically only oil catapults are going to be useful.

This honestly sounds like one of those half ass changes I've warned you about... You identify a problem.. Such as Zerg balls or aoe caps.. And then you proceed to do everything in your power to avoid doing the one thing needed to fix the problem.