Upcoming siege changes in next major update

bowmanz607

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

This is just going to lead to more purge spamming most likely. Thus negating the change... Basically only oil catapults are going to be useful.

This honestly sounds like one of those half ass changes I've warned you about... You identify a problem.. Such as Zerg balls or aoe caps.. And then you proceed to do everything in your power to avoid doing the one thing needed to fix the problem.

You don't even know the purge changes yet. Don't jump the gun.

Xsorus

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

This is just going to lead to more purge spamming most likely. Thus negating the change... Basically only oil catapults are going to be useful.

This honestly sounds like one of those half ass changes I've warned you about... You identify a problem.. Such as Zerg balls or aoe caps.. And then you proceed to do everything in your power to avoid doing the one thing needed to fix the problem.

You don't even know the purge changes yet. Don't jump the gun.

Unless it's one person and let's be honest here.. It's not... It's going to result in stacking more purge spammers

bowmanz607

Xsorus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

This is just going to lead to more purge spamming most likely. Thus negating the change... Basically only oil catapults are going to be useful.

This honestly sounds like one of those half ass changes I've warned you about... You identify a problem.. Such as Zerg balls or aoe caps.. And then you proceed to do everything in your power to avoid doing the one thing needed to fix the problem.

You don't even know the purge changes yet. Don't jump the gun.

Unless it's one person and let's be honest here.. It's not... It's going to result in stacking more purge spammers

But we have no idea how purge will operate. You are assuming it will operate in the same way that it does now except a lower vap. We don't know that to be true.

Xsorus

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

This is just going to lead to more purge spamming most likely. Thus negating the change... Basically only oil catapults are going to be useful.

This honestly sounds like one of those half ass changes I've warned you about... You identify a problem.. Such as Zerg balls or aoe caps.. And then you proceed to do everything in your power to avoid doing the one thing needed to fix the problem.

You don't even know the purge changes yet. Don't jump the gun.

Unless it's one person and let's be honest here.. It's not... It's going to result in stacking more purge spammers

But we have no idea how purge will operate. You are assuming it will operate in the same way that it does now except a lower vap. We don't know that to be true.

Judging by previous half assed approaches I can say with certainly they are probably just capping the number purged lower.

Takllin

Xsorus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

This is just going to lead to more purge spamming most likely. Thus negating the change... Basically only oil catapults are going to be useful.

This honestly sounds like one of those half ass changes I've warned you about... You identify a problem.. Such as Zerg balls or aoe caps.. And then you proceed to do everything in your power to avoid doing the one thing needed to fix the problem.

You don't even know the purge changes yet. Don't jump the gun.

Unless it's one person and let's be honest here.. It's not... It's going to result in stacking more purge spammers

But we have no idea how purge will operate. You are assuming it will operate in the same way that it does now except a lower vap. We don't know that to be true.

Judging by previous half assed approaches I can say with certainly they are probably just capping the number purged lower.

6

Joy_Division

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

This is just going to lead to more purge spamming most likely. Thus negating the change... Basically only oil catapults are going to be useful.

This honestly sounds like one of those half ass changes I've warned you about... You identify a problem.. Such as Zerg balls or aoe caps.. And then you proceed to do everything in your power to avoid doing the one thing needed to fix the problem.

I'm not so sure.

I interpret this as a pretty hefty nerf is coming to our ability to spam purges. ZoS was pretty consistent in stating they wanted these effects to be meaningful. If these can be purged, then they probably focused their efforts on limiting our ability to cleanse this stuff.

PainfulFAFA

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

Gee i would love to know what these changes to Purge will be but the guy barely knows how to forum...

Cinbri

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher.

RIP my hopes that 40-men PvE train will stop being viable in PvP.

Cinbri

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Is there any small changes like removing doors from towers to prevent abusing it or how doors works completely?

Robbmrp

I'm late in reading this, but really like the changes that are being updated. Finally, it seems that siege weapons will be lethal as they should be.

PainfulFAFA

There is still one thing that hasnt been mentioned at all about the upcoming changes to siege and its been such an annoyance since Day 1 of ESO and that is:

Will we still have to wait for the siege to finish reloading before we can pack them up?

Talcyndl

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

which Eric can detail

Can or will?



I'm sorry to hear you have backed away from unpurgeable siege effects. MAYBE if purge is nerfed enough, the TG changes will still be effective at breaking the Blobs.

But I must say, my optimism about your anti-Blob efforts has taken a big hit.

Talcyndl

Xsorus wrote: »

Judging by previous half assed approaches I can say with certainly they are probably just capping the number purged lower.

Yup. And if history is any indication, Eric will tell us all about the half-ass approach sometime Q2 of 2017.

Talcyndl

:Checks Dev Tracker:

:Hears Crickets from Eric about Purge nerf:

:Logs into Cyrodiil:

:Sees unkillable Blobs glowing white with Purge while outlined in red circles:

:Reads EP zone chat messages from Pact forming mega-zerg because its the only way to be effective:

:Gives up on game:

eventide03b14a_ESO

themdogesbite wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Just to clarify, the DOT on Flame Trebs and Flame Ballista can still be purged....for now.

Healdebufs NEEDS to be cleanseable otherwise you've litteraly killed every medium sized group in the game.

You mean people might actually have to avoid the obvious red circles? What a concept. Let's face it siege weapons are a joke right now. When you see a giant boulder, bolt, or "meatbag", hurtling towards you, you should be a little concerned instead of just meh.

The-Baconator

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Just to clarify, the DOT on Flame Trebs and Flame Ballista can still be purged....for now.

Healdebufs NEEDS to be cleanseable otherwise you've litteraly killed every medium sized group in the game.

You mean people might actually have to avoid the obvious red circles? What a concept. Let's face it siege weapons are a joke right now. When you see a giant boulder, bolt, or "meatbag", hurtling towards you, you should be a little concerned instead of just meh.

What he is saying is the strength of siege should be somewhere between "meh" and stupidly overpowered, which is where it would sit if heal debuffs\snares become uncleanseable. The fact that debuffs can be removed repeatedly at little cost is a problem, but there are much more elegant solutions (such as you can only purge x effects in x seconds or can only be effected by x clease effect in x seconds) that would make siege more powerful while still leaving room for intelligent gameplay.

GorraShatan

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

Being non-purgable was interesting. Will the snares at least stick around now? Either way, the buffs to siege are badly needed, and have been since the level cap was raised. Glad to see this coming.

RinaldoGandolphi

If all they do is cap the number of people that can be purged this will be a colossal failure.

Purge should put a buff on your character the after being purged you cna't be purged again for say...6 seconds...thats reasonable and gives you plenty of time to get out of range of siege fire or to get out from under it.

Xsorus is probably right, they are probably just going to cap the number of targets and these ball groups will just add more Purge spammers. This tells me were going to be stuck with pretty much the same thing we got right now.

bowmanz607

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

If all they do is cap the number of people that can be purged this will be a colossal failure.

Purge should put a buff on your character the after being purged you cna't be purged again for say...6 seconds...thats reasonable and gives you plenty of time to get out of range of siege fire or to get out from under it.

Xsorus is probably right, they are probably just going to cap the number of targets and these ball groups will just add more Purge spammers. This tells me were going to be stuck with pretty much the same thing we got right now.

Idk. I would like to imagine that the devs, at least wheeler, would understand that it would simply increase the number of people using Purge if the only change was caps. I would like to think that at least wheeler would have done something different with siege if that was indeed the only change to purge. Additionally, given the amount of times wheeler mentioned that the changes coming to Purge would effect what they would do with aiege, it would seem that there was some good back and fourth internal discussion which leads me to believe that it was more than just capping the ability.

I understand that these are "would like to think" statements, but it just seems to blatantly obvious that even a person with very little knowledge of the game that a mere cap on Purge does nothing to solve the problem.

Starshadw

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Purge should put a buff on your character the after being purged you cna't be purged again for say...6 seconds...thats reasonable and gives you plenty of time to get out of range of siege fire or to get out from under it.

So many problems of this game could be mitigated if not solved outright if they introduced cooldowns to the game (skill cooldowns, immunity timers, etc). Alas, seeing as they can't even get their cc immunity timer to function properly, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to see more such cooldowns in the game any time soon.

Love_Chunks

Cant really make a selfish long winded post about how the game should suit my play style. Those of us who have stuck around have all adapted to nerfs buffs bugs and what not. We will adapt again. So in short: changes are coming, stop b****ing, stop whining, learn to adapt, learn to play, or f***ing quit.

TheBull

helltiger

It maybe worth, make cleansable only with Templar's "Purify Ritual" (or morphs), because cleansing in this this case will not be passive effect and players must press [X] to cleance themselves.

Talcyndl

helltiger wrote: »

It maybe worth, make cleansable only with Templar's "Purify Ritual" (or morphs), because cleansing in this this case will not be passive effect and players must press [X] to cleance themselves.

This is something Frozn and I have been saying for a long time now. The current system means we have "x" number* of raid members assigned to spam purge and thereby immunize the entire group. The rest of the group can then ignore siege and focus on spamming their DPS skills. It is mindless play - certainly not the skilled play style everyone here claims to support.

Requiring players to actively participate in cleansing negative effects would go a long way to changing that. It would reward skilled players/groups while removing the automatic immunity blobs and zergs currently have.


*A number which will just increase if ZOS simply caps the number of players effected.

Starshadw

Talcyndl wrote: »

helltiger wrote: »

It maybe worth, make cleansable only with Templar's "Purify Ritual" (or morphs), because cleansing in this this case will not be passive effect and players must press [X] to cleance themselves.

This is something Frozn and I have been saying for a long time now. The current system means we have "x" number* of raid members assigned to spam purge and thereby immunize the entire group. The rest of the group can then ignore siege and focus on spamming their DPS skills. It is mindless play - certainly not the skilled play style everyone here claims to support.

Requiring players to actively participate in cleansing negative effects would go a long way to changing that. It would reward skilled players/groups while removing the automatic immunity blobs and zergs currently have.


*A number which will just increase if ZOS simply caps the number of players effected.

This is what comes of designing a game in which everyone is supposed to be able to do everything. Purge exists as a skill for non-templars to be able to handle group purging. I am coming to dislike it more and more, and wish fervently for stricter class guidelines and skills.

Talcyndl

Starshadw wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

helltiger wrote: »

It maybe worth, make cleansable only with Templar's "Purify Ritual" (or morphs), because cleansing in this this case will not be passive effect and players must press [X] to cleance themselves.

This is something Frozn and I have been saying for a long time now. The current system means we have "x" number* of raid members assigned to spam purge and thereby immunize the entire group. The rest of the group can then ignore siege and focus on spamming their DPS skills. It is mindless play - certainly not the skilled play style everyone here claims to support.

Requiring players to actively participate in cleansing negative effects would go a long way to changing that. It would reward skilled players/groups while removing the automatic immunity blobs and zergs currently have.


*A number which will just increase if ZOS simply caps the number of players effected.

This is what comes of designing a game in which everyone is supposed to be able to do everything. Purge exists as a skill for non-templars to be able to handle group purging. I am coming to dislike it more and more, and wish fervently for stricter class guidelines and skills.

IMO, most of the problems in the game atm come from designing a game without skill cooldowns, expecting your softcap stat system to prevent spamming of abilities, and THEN REMOVING the softcaps. And ZOS has been trying to fix the problems that has caused ever since.

Starshadw

Talcyndl wrote: »

IMO, most of the problems in the game atm come from designing a game without skill cooldowns, expecting your softcap stat system to prevent spamming of abilities, and THEN REMOVING the softcaps. And ZOS has been trying to fix the problems that has caused ever since.

There's no doubt that lack of cooldowns is a significant problem (I've said so on these forums). That doesn't mean the current "everyone can do everything!" isn't also a problem.

sirsnapper

You guys really need to fix the whole safe zone in the sewers, We have people camping the blue safe area ganking then running back in so u can’t fight them walked in to about 30 yellows in the blue area just camping and too scared to fight you need to implement a timer or something this some real weak garbage. Nothing like sitting in a safe area waiting for another faction to finish hours of farm to hit them two times and take all their stuff, then run back to safety and weight for another. GARBAGE COMPLETE GARBAGE.

Lava_Croft

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With the changes coming to Purge which Eric can detail, all siege side effects like the meatbag health debuff, snares, and DoTs will be purgable, last a shorter duration, but the damage itself will be higher. Ballista weapons across the board will turn a lot faster than they currently do and their scatter has been removed (EG. they will always hit where they're aimed).

Full details will be in the PTS patch notes breaking down each change individually, but that's the main gist regarding the Siege changes coming soon

I'm starting to see a pattern here. Thanks for yet another disappointment.

Talcyndl

So @ZOS_BrianWheeler:

Now that you guys have announced the Thieves Guild DLC release date, any ETA on telling us what Eric plans on doing with Purge (and other abilities)?