Upcoming siege changes in next major update

bowmanz607

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Can we please get bankable AP?

Darlgon

AGrz5585 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

I know this topic is about seige changes, but you seem to be most vocal in here so this is my question.

Where are the updated v16 pvp sets? They're not in the pvp vendor. Are they just from rewards for the worthy? And could we know which sets got updated?

Thanks in advance

Thats an @Wrobel question. Hopefully he saw it and answered on ESO Live.

apostate9

themdogesbite wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Image that you fight a 24 man group as a 12 man group. 4 of these 24 put up a siege and you are still outnumbered 20 to 12 or even less if you've got some on siege as well, so who do you think will win the 24 people or the 12 with the healing reduction that is unpurgeable with the current aoe caps? I said take a keep not defend.

You're not supposed to be taking keeps defended by superior numbers, unless you outclass them by a large margin.

And here's whats wrong with this community. If people weren't stuck in number > everything maybe we'd have a better PvP enviorment and a hardcore crowd left in this game.

Naw dude. Quite the reverse: YOUR ATTITUDE is what's wrong with this community. People like you, that spit in the face of logic and game design, by insisting a gank squad should be able to take a stone castle from 24 defenders. I just....don't...even...

Starshadw

Dyride wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

And almost as bad:

Steel Tornado (Whirlwind morph): Decreased the radius of this morph to 9 meters on all Ranks from 11/11.5/12/12.5 meters on Ranks I/II/III/IV. This morph now gains slightly more damage as it ranks up.

A tiny decrease in radius with a damage INCREASE. What possible justification is there to increase the damage on this skill?

You realize this actually cuts the Sq. meter area covered by Steel Tornado in half?

I'm not actually sure the decrease in radius is going to make much of a difference at all in PvP. So many spam it, generally they are well within 9 meters of most. The place it's going to get irritating is in PvE, where the skill won't clear trash as quickly as it used to.

As for the purge change? *shrug* It's not going to make a bit of difference in slowing down/hurting zergs. They already have multiple people running the skill, so it's no skin off their teeth whatsoever. I honestly have no clue why someone decided reducing the number affected was a good idea.

Sallington

Starshadw wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

And almost as bad:

Steel Tornado (Whirlwind morph): Decreased the radius of this morph to 9 meters on all Ranks from 11/11.5/12/12.5 meters on Ranks I/II/III/IV. This morph now gains slightly more damage as it ranks up.

A tiny decrease in radius with a damage INCREASE. What possible justification is there to increase the damage on this skill?

You realize this actually cuts the Sq. meter area covered by Steel Tornado in half?

I'm not actually sure the decrease in radius is going to make much of a difference at all in PvP. So many spam it, generally they are well within 9 meters of most. The place it's going to get irritating is in PvE, where the skill won't clear trash as quickly as it used to.

As for the purge change? *shrug* It's not going to make a bit of difference in slowing down/hurting zergs. They already have multiple people running the skill, so it's no skin off their teeth whatsoever. I honestly have no clue why someone decided reducing the number affected was a good idea.

The steel tornado change is 90% buff / 10% nerf in my opinion.

Rylana

Starshadw wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

And almost as bad:

Steel Tornado (Whirlwind morph): Decreased the radius of this morph to 9 meters on all Ranks from 11/11.5/12/12.5 meters on Ranks I/II/III/IV. This morph now gains slightly more damage as it ranks up.

A tiny decrease in radius with a damage INCREASE. What possible justification is there to increase the damage on this skill?

You realize this actually cuts the Sq. meter area covered by Steel Tornado in half?

I'm not actually sure the decrease in radius is going to make much of a difference at all in PvP. So many spam it, generally they are well within 9 meters of most. The place it's going to get irritating is in PvE, where the skill won't clear trash as quickly as it used to.

As for the purge change? *shrug* It's not going to make a bit of difference in slowing down/hurting zergs. They already have multiple people running the skill, so it's no skin off their teeth whatsoever. I honestly have no clue why someone decided reducing the number affected was a good idea.

Except for purge/barrier caps will now force ballgroups to run more barriers and purges, thus less damage ults and abilities.

It will affect them a hell of a lot more than you assume.

Satiar

Rylana wrote: »

Starshadw wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

And almost as bad:

Steel Tornado (Whirlwind morph): Decreased the radius of this morph to 9 meters on all Ranks from 11/11.5/12/12.5 meters on Ranks I/II/III/IV. This morph now gains slightly more damage as it ranks up.

A tiny decrease in radius with a damage INCREASE. What possible justification is there to increase the damage on this skill?

You realize this actually cuts the Sq. meter area covered by Steel Tornado in half?

I'm not actually sure the decrease in radius is going to make much of a difference at all in PvP. So many spam it, generally they are well within 9 meters of most. The place it's going to get irritating is in PvE, where the skill won't clear trash as quickly as it used to.

As for the purge change? *shrug* It's not going to make a bit of difference in slowing down/hurting zergs. They already have multiple people running the skill, so it's no skin off their teeth whatsoever. I honestly have no clue why someone decided reducing the number affected was a good idea.

Except for purge/barrier caps will now force ballgroups to run more barriers and purges, thus less damage ults and abilities.

It will affect them a hell of a lot more than you assume.

Purges stay the same, ball groups wont run barriers at all. They'll just stick to cover, LoS, chokes, keeps. Big damage dumps with lots of VD procs. Without the ability to kite or barrier effectively you won't see these groups putting themselves in open and vulnerable situations like they used to.

Cogo

What is the reason for changing purge to not work on sieges?
I don't understand what the improvement would be?

Also, please reconsider this HUGE mistake of making alliance war skills so easy to access.
Or, add new War skills that you get with higher ranks.

To access the first war skills in week, that's fine. But this change removes this skill line as something you earn.
The abilities are all very good, but not "NEEDED" to win.

More and more Pvpers are talking about Vigor as a "must". There are even players who claims you cant do Arena or whatever, without it. If players gets access to all Alliance war skills in a week, they will only focus on this, and less on HOW the play.

CP5

Cogo wrote: »

What is the reason for changing purge to not work on sieges?
I don't understand what the improvement would be?

Also, please reconsider this HUGE mistake of making alliance war skills so easy to access.
Or, add new War skills that you get with higher ranks.

To access the first war skills in week, that's fine. But this change removes this skill line as something you earn.
The abilities are all very good, but not "NEEDED" to win.

More and more Pvpers are talking about Vigor as a "must". There are even players who claims you cant do Arena or whatever, without it. If players gets access to all Alliance war skills in a week, they will only focus on this, and less on HOW the play.

If pvp is going to be balanced around these skills existing they need to be readily available.

Starshadw

Rylana wrote: »

Except for purge/barrier caps will now force ballgroups to run more barriers and purges, thus less damage ults and abilities.

It will affect them a hell of a lot more than you assume.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. Barrier on back bar, damage ult on main bar. *shrugs* Any decent group designates barrier order anyway, so nope, I don't see this changing much at all other than instead of designating one person, they'll designate multiple people to hit it right as they run in. As for Purge - I suspect a few more folks might get told to switch out a skill on one of their bars for Purge, but that's about it.

And of course, adding more calculations because of the added caps will increase server lag for all even more. Yay! (Ugh)

ToRelax

Starshadw wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Except for purge/barrier caps will now force ballgroups to run more barriers and purges, thus less damage ults and abilities.

It will affect them a hell of a lot more than you assume.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. Barrier on back bar, damage ult on main bar. *shrugs* Any decent group designates barrier order anyway, so nope, I don't see this changing much at all other than instead of designating one person, they'll designate multiple people to hit it right as they run in. As for Purge - I suspect a few more folks might get told to switch out a skill on one of their bars for Purge, but that's about it.

And of course, adding more calculations because of the added caps will increase server lag for all even more. Yay! (Ugh)

A lower cap should cause less calculations than a higher one. Doesn't mean it has to be relevant at all though.

Cody

Cogo wrote: »

What is the reason for changing purge to not work on sieges?
I don't understand what the improvement would be?

Also, please reconsider this HUGE mistake of making alliance war skills so easy to access.
Or, add new War skills that you get with higher ranks.

To access the first war skills in week, that's fine. But this change removes this skill line as something you earn.
The abilities are all very good, but not "NEEDED" to win.

More and more Pvpers are talking about Vigor as a "must". There are even players who claims you cant do Arena or whatever, without it. If players gets access to all Alliance war skills in a week, they will only focus on this, and less on HOW the play.

vigor is indeed a must, that is if one does not want to be carried. I remember doing vet dungeons before vigor came around on my stam build, and it was horrible. I could not keep myself a foot anywhere near as effective as I can now. Now I can actually sustain myself and stop having to use the healer as a crutch. I doubt you agree with me, but for me vigor is a Sithis send, yes I could do without it, I did for almost a year, but it allows me to have a decent heal besides a 30 second cooldown potion. I have no problem with ZOS making these skills more quickly reached come next month, it will only make playing alts more attractive.

leepalmer95

Cody wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

What is the reason for changing purge to not work on sieges?
I don't understand what the improvement would be?

Also, please reconsider this HUGE mistake of making alliance war skills so easy to access.
Or, add new War skills that you get with higher ranks.

To access the first war skills in week, that's fine. But this change removes this skill line as something you earn.
The abilities are all very good, but not "NEEDED" to win.

More and more Pvpers are talking about Vigor as a "must". There are even players who claims you cant do Arena or whatever, without it. If players gets access to all Alliance war skills in a week, they will only focus on this, and less on HOW the play.

vigor is indeed a must, that is if one does not want to be carried. I remember doing vet dungeons before vigor came around on my stam build, and it was horrible. I could not keep myself a foot anywhere near as effective as I can now. Now I can actually sustain myself and stop having to use the healer as a crutch. I doubt you agree with me, but for me vigor is a Sithis send, yes I could do without it, I did for almost a year, but it allows me to have a decent heal besides a 30 second cooldown potion. I have no problem with ZOS making these skills more quickly reached come next month, it will only make playing alts more attractive.

Vigor i can understand, caltraps isn't needed but it's useful. But why do people need to readily access battle frenzy/res 2? Or have access to magicka det at like 350k ap? Det isn't needed for anything in pve.

In you want access to the strong passive/strong skills such a det you need to work for them, not complain to zos so they give it on a sivler platter.

I would of been ok with a 30% flat decrease in ap required. Not making it take 6x less time, 6.7m ap ----> 1m ap.... This is also the same time where they are increasing ap gain.

I can easily get 20k~ AP an hour currently come next patch when i drop my group size and instead of running in a 10-16 perso group i'll run around it a 5 person group because 1 kill will equal 550 ap.... this will increase by quite a bit.

Zos always do this, instead of small updates and changed they usually change someone twice in one patch, reduce the ap needed and double the ap gained...

What ever i guess i'm sure my lvl 30 will be happy to accept the proxy/battle frenzy 2.

Ytterin

The two things needed:
Faster siege weapon impact after firing. No AOE caps on siege weapons.

Maulkin

Ytterin wrote: »

The two things needed:
Faster siege weapon impact after firing. No AOE caps on siege weapons.

Siege weapons never ever had AoE caps.

Katahdin

Can we get siege that stacks in inventory? Seriously, these are consumable items and should stack like them. I have a bunch from drops that are eating up inventory because the don't stack.

Ixtyr

Katahdin wrote: »

Can we get siege that stacks in inventory? Seriously, these are consumable items and should stack like them. I have a bunch from drops that are eating up inventory because the don't stack.

I agree on this, though Brian has stated in the past that it's a technical limitation within the game that prevents them from doing so. They don't currently have a way for a siege item to 'remember' its health, so players could effectively just restack a siege engine and it would heal to full, thus allowing people to never have to buy more siege. Thus, each item needs to be separate. Sad, and frustrating, but it is what it is.

Katahdin

Ixtyr wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Can we get siege that stacks in inventory? Seriously, these are consumable items and should stack like them. I have a bunch from drops that are eating up inventory because the don't stack.

I agree on this, though Brian has stated in the past that it's a technical limitation within the game that prevents them from doing so. They don't currently have a way for a siege item to 'remember' its health, so players could effectively just restack a siege engine and it would heal to full, thus allowing people to never have to buy more siege. Thus, each item needs to be separate. Sad, and frustrating, but it is what it is.

Just make them into a 1 time usable item like drinks and food. I dont see why this is such a problem. Other games *cough GW2 cough* has stackable seige.

ToRelax

Katahdin wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Can we get siege that stacks in inventory? Seriously, these are consumable items and should stack like them. I have a bunch from drops that are eating up inventory because the don't stack.

I agree on this, though Brian has stated in the past that it's a technical limitation within the game that prevents them from doing so. They don't currently have a way for a siege item to 'remember' its health, so players could effectively just restack a siege engine and it would heal to full, thus allowing people to never have to buy more siege. Thus, each item needs to be separate. Sad, and frustrating, but it is what it is.

Just make them into a 1 time usable item like drinks and food. I dont see why this is such a problem. Other games *cough GW2 cough* has stackable seige.

I'd rather be able to pack my siege and use it again, tyvm.

Enodoc

ToRelax wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Can we get siege that stacks in inventory? Seriously, these are consumable items and should stack like them. I have a bunch from drops that are eating up inventory because the don't stack.

I agree on this, though Brian has stated in the past that it's a technical limitation within the game that prevents them from doing so. They don't currently have a way for a siege item to 'remember' its health, so players could effectively just restack a siege engine and it would heal to full, thus allowing people to never have to buy more siege. Thus, each item needs to be separate. Sad, and frustrating, but it is what it is.

Just make them into a 1 time usable item like drinks and food. I dont see why this is such a problem. Other games *cough GW2 cough* has stackable seige.

I'd rather be able to pack my siege and use it again, tyvm.

There must be a way for them to set it up so that unused sieges will all stack, while used sieges would take up a space each. That would cover the stacking request and bypass the issue of not being able to stack a part-used siege because of its health.

Katahdin

Enodoc wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Can we get siege that stacks in inventory? Seriously, these are consumable items and should stack like them. I have a bunch from drops that are eating up inventory because the don't stack.

I agree on this, though Brian has stated in the past that it's a technical limitation within the game that prevents them from doing so. They don't currently have a way for a siege item to 'remember' its health, so players could effectively just restack a siege engine and it would heal to full, thus allowing people to never have to buy more siege. Thus, each item needs to be separate. Sad, and frustrating, but it is what it is.

Just make them into a 1 time usable item like drinks and food. I dont see why this is such a problem. Other games *cough GW2 cough* has stackable seige.

I'd rather be able to pack my siege and use it again, tyvm.

There must be a way for them to set it up so that unused sieges will all stack, while used sieges would take up a space each. That would cover the stacking request and bypass the issue of not being able to stack a part-used siege because of its health.

Agreed

Serenityx

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Anything that removes a "negative" effect is considered a purge, so not just the "Purge" abliity as you noted.

Oh. Is that why the word purge isn't in the description of "everything that removes negative effects" .

Blacksheepart

Now you cannot even fight because all people do is set up siege and blast even small man. It was pretty much eliminated any type of xVx PVP on the map. You could be in the middle of a field and now all of a sudden there is a siege line? It's bull - especially since heals were nerffed. So lets up damage and nerf heals gj gj !

Enodoc

Blacksheepart wrote: »

Now you cannot even fight because all people do is set up siege and blast even small man. It was pretty much eliminated any type of xVx PVP on the map. You could be in the middle of a field and now all of a sudden there is a siege line? It's bull - especially since heals were nerffed. So lets up damage and nerf heals gj gj !

Siege placement should be restricted to just within a keep's grounds.

leepalmer95

Blacksheepart wrote: »

Now you cannot even fight because all people do is set up siege and blast even small man. It was pretty much eliminated any type of xVx PVP on the map. You could be in the middle of a field and now all of a sudden there is a siege line? It's bull - especially since heals were nerffed. So lets up damage and nerf heals gj gj !

Dodge the BIG red circles and your OK.

Or slot purge and set up counter siege, stop complaining because siege is actually useful again and you actually have to be wary of it now.

It's still not that Op though, sorc can still easily just recast shields, Nb's can just cloak the siege away, Templars can still use purifying ritual.

I actually like where it's at though, it's damaging but not overly so.

Jhunn

Balance

Enodoc

Jhunn wrote: »

Balance

Protip: Don't stand in the red circle.

bowmanz607

Enodoc wrote: »

Jhunn wrote: »

Balance

Protip: Don't stand in the red circle.

One, it 8s a stone treb which means it was likely just a lucky shot and a person should be installed killed from a large boulder being hurled at them. Two, it is possible player had emp passives.

Jhunn

Enodoc wrote: »

Jhunn wrote: »

Balance

Protip: Don't stand in the red circle.

Protip?

Yeah. Seems people are enjoying their easy-mode siege game.

DaveMoeDee

CP5 wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

What is the reason for changing purge to not work on sieges?
I don't understand what the improvement would be?

Also, please reconsider this HUGE mistake of making alliance war skills so easy to access.
Or, add new War skills that you get with higher ranks.

To access the first war skills in week, that's fine. But this change removes this skill line as something you earn.
The abilities are all very good, but not "NEEDED" to win.

More and more Pvpers are talking about Vigor as a "must". There are even players who claims you cant do Arena or whatever, without it. If players gets access to all Alliance war skills in a week, they will only focus on this, and less on HOW the play.

If pvp is going to be balanced around these skills existing they need to be readily available.

Yeah, wanting more progression in PvP hurts PvP in 2 ways:

1. You get people like me grinding alliance ranks to unlock skills talking up a population slot in a pop locked campaign. I was at the perpetual battle at Chalman earlier spamming heals (though my character is a templar healer, so that is not completely cheesy). No one is interested in ending that fight. The outer keep is down but no one wants to enter it. Silly battle, but I was able to unlock another level with no horseriding intermissions. The lower the requirements for skill unlocks, the sooner I leave Cyrodiil to give up my slot for someone who is more serious about PvP.

2. You have more power imbalances among players where most dedicated PvP players (which I am not) want to win with their strategy or combat skill, not their access to skills opponents don't have access to.