Shieldbreaker escaped proc set nerfs

Drummerx04 · August 2017

So one of the good and effective changes in the HOTR patch was the general balancing of proc sets away from the "instant and unavoidable invisible damage from armor" mantra, and into a meta where proc sets can for the most part be avoided/dodged, or at a minimum there is a nice warning that you'll have damage incoming. This is great, this is beautiful.

I encourage @Wrobel to apply something similar to shieldbreaker. Currently, it is one of the only damage proc sets that deals instant unavoidable, reliable, and in this case unmitigateable damage. Given that status, it is quickly becoming a new favorite for stamNB in Cyrodiil. I guess stam players got so accustomed to being carried by proc sets, that they felt compelled to pick shieldbreaker since it is one of the only ones to escape the nerf hammer this patch?

Keep in mind, this set has no internal cooldown, and the only "counterplay" is to not cast shields... which isn't really practical or even counterplay. You could make an argument that healing is the counterplay... but it was also the counterplay for every other damaging proc set, so its a hypocritical argument at best. You are still getting 2k dps straight through all mitigating abilities via the armor you are wearing.

And yes, I've mained a magsorc since 2015 when I picked up the game, so my opinions on sets clearly and pointedly designed to kill magsorcs are bound to be biased, but I've tried to point out the contradictions with shieldbreaker and the changes made to all other proc sets.

Merkabeh · August 2017

[insert popcorn gif here]

Kram8ion · August 2017

So you have a counter to your build
I think your supposed to isn't that the point

Gothren · August 2017

Merkabeh wrote: »

[insert popcorn gif here]

Kronuxx · August 2017

Ok...get rid of shieldbreaker's 5th bonus. Check. Get rid of shield stacking on Sorcs. Check. Problem solved.

mb10 · August 2017

Sorcs are panicking...

Morgul667 · August 2017

Inb4 salt:)

WaltherCarraway · August 2017

Crying for a noob friendly class, LOL

OP is kind of person who runs with DC nightraid zerg on PCNA Vivec that consists of 4 magwarden 4 magplar 5 magsorcs and 2 magnbs. Near invincible (because that amount of group heal with a siege shield can deny 16 flaming oils defense) while spamming crystal frag, curse or maybe even overload light attack, with the tendency of destro ult stacking. Yet he gotta complain about a counter. Saw him on daily basis; now I can consider him as same as some DC punkbois who think themselves as king of PvP while no one buys their nauseating, everlasting ego.

inb4 salt is real. as of ^ post

EDIT: scroll down for @Dorrino 1v4

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2017

Duel-Wield heavy attacks dont proc shield breaker twice anymore. So it still got a nerf.

Waffennacht · August 2017

It's cool

Drummerx04 · August 2017

Kram8ion wrote: »

So you have a counter to your build
I think your supposed to isn't that the point

Sure, it's called timing burst and CC around shield cooldowns. Roots and snares are also incredibly effective at preventing mobility or draining resources.
Edit: a surprisingly effective counter to shields is also to deal a lot of damage. Shields don't get the damage mitigation from armor or blocking so they scale less effectively against strong continuous damage from dots and strong single target spammables. So for instance, if a stamplar casts POTL, 1 dot or CC, and then blasts away with jabs, he will chew through sorc shields like it's his job.

There are counters, and then there is destroying sorcs from range by doing nothing but spamming bow light attacks while hiding behind other people.

Make the 5 piece bonus "Attacks against damage shields deal 20% extra damage" or "Reduces the strength of your targets shields by 15% for 4 seconds" I mean even just add a 3 second cooldown or something... there are ways to rework shieldbreaker to be useful without being totally broken.

As it stands, fighting against a group running shieldbreaker is about as fun as it would be for a NB to fight a group while someone is just following you around spamming nothing but scorching flare.

DocFrost72 · August 2017

I'm gunna blow your mind, ready?

Mutagen.
Surge.

Drummerx04 · August 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I'm gunna blow your mind, ready?

Mutagen.
Surge.

I'm gonna blow your mind, ready?

Defile.

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Keep in mind, this set has no internal cooldown, and the only "counterplay" is to not cast shields... which isn't really practical or even counterplay. You could make an argument that healing is the counterplay... but it was also the counterplay for every other damaging proc set, so its a hypocritical argument at best. You are still getting 2k dps straight through all mitigating abilities via the armor you are wearing.

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Sure, it's called timing burst and CC around shield cooldowns. Roots and snares are also incredibly effective at preventing mobility or draining resources.
Edit: a surprisingly effective counter to shields is also to deal a lot of damage. Shields don't get the damage mitigation from armor or blocking so they scale less effectively against strong continuous damage from dots and strong single target spammables. So for instance, if a stamplar casts POTL, 1 dot or CC, and then blasts away with jabs, he will chew through sorc shields like it's his job.

This is gonne be fun

First off, it's always a good move to start a discussion with implying that all stam players are biased. Will 100% get the best arguments out of a topic.

Then you deny healing as counterplay, you say it's "hypocritical" as it's counterplay to every incoming damage. So what, is it a counter now or not? Also you continue to say damage is the counterplay to shields. This doesn't add up. Damage is the only way to kill somebody. Talking about hypocritical arguments...

In another sentence you highlight how shields aren't boosted by armor resistance. However you conceal that they are immune to extra crit damage (not to being critted) as well. I'm starting to believe you were right when you said you are biased too.

Oh, and I hope you complain about Way of the Fire as well, since it's still unavoidable and instant.

But back to the real issue: yes, shieldbreaker is broken. It recieved a fix this patch but it's still broken. Wards need a counter but this isn't the one that is healthy for the game. Your suggestion with the +20% dmg to shields is nice. Also the debuff to wards. They could also change the 5 piece bonus to something like "x% of the extra dmg ignores shields" or ha/la deals X dmg that ignores shields but are mitigated by armor".

castorein · August 2017

How to avoid shieldbreaker proc damage:
Dont spam cast your shields-> no shield means no proc damage

Kram8ion · August 2017

Groups in shield breaker sounds hilarious but unlikely

Biro123 · August 2017

I got ganked by 2 NB's using this last night.. It was funny..

They did LESS damage to me while my shield was down (bearing in mind that's with light-armour, no resistance buffs and only 800 impen.).

I guess the point is that these guys *could* have added significant damage to their shieldbreaker hits with normal abilities - but they didn't.. I guess they were so bad that they just didn't.. or that they just knew that they didn't need to. So basically, its easy kills with nothing but bow light-attacking - which just isn't a good mechanic - at all.

They were good at T-Bagging though.

dsalter · August 2017

shield breaker + oblivion enchant + torags + trait.
él problemo shield stacker?

Vercingetorix · August 2017

Shieldbreaker is one of only THREE options available to players to counter shield stacking. (The other two are the CP passive "Shattering Blows" and Oblivion Damage) If ZoS nerfs Shieldbreaker, there will be an influx of more complaints with "Sorcs OP" and "Shield-stackers need nerfed" all over the forums. They know it and you know it.

If you have a problem with Shieldbreaker, perhaps you should learn to play against it rather than complain about it. The bonus damage is granted if the enemy is abusing wards. Very simple solution - either end the fight quickly without excessive ward use OR LOSE.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · August 2017

Because everyone runs shield breaker as sorc is the only class in the game...come on now..boooo! boooo to this thread.

DocFrost72 · August 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I'm gunna blow your mind, ready?

Mutagen.
Surge.

I'm gonna blow your mind, ready?

Defile.

Mutagen tick in Cyrodiil is 1.5 on crit, surge will be 1.5k non crit and 2-2.5k crit. You will completely negate shield breaker and take a chunk out of their oblivion damage just by running those two abilities.

Or did you just want shields to have absolutely no counter at all, and not have to slot one or two abilities to weaken 5 pieces of armor?

Minno · August 2017

Change the 5 piece to do 5k oblivion DMG on anyone with more than 30k Stam/mag.

This will be a nerf for everyone.
This will be a buff for us forumplars who can't play ESO at work and rely on forum-salt for our fix

.

Zer0oo · August 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I'm gunna blow your mind, ready?

Mutagen.
Surge.

I'm gonna blow your mind, ready?

Defile.

Mutagen tick in Cyrodiil is 1.5 on crit, surge will be 1.5k non crit and 2-2.5k crit. You will completely negate shield breaker and take a chunk out of their oblivion damage just by running those two abilities.

Or did you just want shields to have absolutely no counter at all, and not have to slot one or two abilities to weaken 5 pieces of armor?

Have you tried it?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209324/feedback-shieldbreaker-5p-set-it-s-op-and-should-not-go-live go and watch the first video

DocFrost72 · August 2017

Yes, leveling my baby sorc in BwB against try hards that managed to get a full set of shield breaker at 37.

Here's what happens:

In a group, I will get focused after the first force pulse, and if more than two come at me I die. I might get one or two shield breaker procs because my shields melt under pressure. Contrary to popular belief, they are absolute garbage for 1vX.

Alternatively if it is one on one, I notice they are spamming bow attacks or trying to pressure me with 2h crit charge and light attack dizzying weave. In the latter case, a procced frag means they either go on defensive and have to spend time roll dodging/cc breaking and healing, or they can try to hit me the 11 or so times it takes. If they do nothing to heal or dodge in 11 seconds, they are dead. Sorc burst is best mitigated, especially if you see a curse on you and count to three. You have to block, dodge, or heal or you're fish food.

In that time they're playing defensive, my mutagen and surge have erased any health damage they've done.

Maybe it is different in CP campaigns, haven't gotten there yet. Can't imagine it being too different though.

Crom_CCCXVI · August 2017

2000 damage per tic, LOL...

Every damn nerf of buff in this game is for Mag Sorcs, and your still crying? Sheild breaker was just nerfed on staffs because MagSorcs couldn't handle that, what else?

regen poison nerf
defending weapon nerf
Viper nerf
increase mundus
increase magika
got rid of the DK heavy attack inferno staff build
Necropotence Buff

every buff/nerf the past year has either directly or indirectly helped magSorcs, 80% of Cyrodil or Battlegrounds is sheild stacking Sorcs, wanna do a Vet Trial... need a Sorc, LOL

Can't even believe I read this crap, try playing a real class for a while instead of just copying the Meta.

Crom_CCCXVI · August 2017

Not to mention OBLIVION ignores resistance not sheilds....... people don't even know what the hell they are talking about that glyph gets eaten by the sheilds every time.

DocFrost72 · August 2017

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Not to mention OBLIVION ignores resistance not sheilds....... people don't even know what the hell they are talking about that glyph gets eaten by the sheilds every time.

If oblivion damage is hitting shields, that is 100% a bug.

EdmundTowers · August 2017

Is there really groups out in cyro running shield breaker?

raasdal · August 2017

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Not to mention OBLIVION ignores resistance not sheilds....... people don't even know what the hell they are talking about that glyph gets eaten by the sheilds every time.

@Crom_CCCXVI ... "people don't even know what the hell they are talking about" ..... Oblivion Glyph, and ALL OTHER Oblivion Damage, does not get "eaten" by shields... It bypasses them completely. That is the entire point... I encourage you to test it ingame, if in doubt. Or i can show you video if you want.

But on the OP. There are WAY more powerful proc sets that somehow avoided that specific nerfhammer. Won't list them here though - too afraid to loose my shiney toys.

josh.lackey_ESO · August 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Given that status, it is quickly becoming a new favorite for stamNB in Cyrodiil.

Just remove Nightblades from Cyrodiil. That's a much better general solution. It should be a PvE only class.

Drummerx04 · August 2017

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Is there really groups out in cyro running shield breaker?

Yes, you know those AD stamblade groups? I've encountered the same groups and players for months now. At least 4 of them are now primarily running shield breaker (good stamblades, not ones that just roll over and die when you look at them), or at the very least slot it when they see me coming (yeah kudos for planning ahead).

Kram8ion wrote: »

Groups in shield breaker sounds hilarious but unlikely

Come talk to me when you encounter 2 grand overlord, permadodge, shade porting, cloaking stamblades each running shieldbreaker, and running with a magDK for lockdown and dot pressure.

Oh, or my personal favorite. A pack of 6 Werewolves and one or two of them were wearing shieldbreaker.

castorein wrote: »

How to avoid shieldbreaker proc damage:
Dont spam cast your shields-> no shield means no proc damage

Oh? Don't cast shields? Wow, why didn't I think of that? Oh right, because a NB running shieldbreaker can still land an 8k incap.

@DocFrost72 For the suggestion to run mutagen and critsurge to counter shieldbreaker, I want to point out that you have to be actively dealing damage and landing hits for surge to proc. You are not attacking while shielding the rest of the damage, and you are not landing hits that get dodged or "missed" with cloak. Add in more time lost for breaking CC or dodging or even blocking a CC.

But a real player will also apply actual damage in a 1v1, and if the player is even a little decent, some of that damage will make it through the shields. Your mutagen and surge get overcome very quickly in practice. Yes, resto ult is also an option, but at that point you are sacrificing offensive burst which you NEED to kill some of the players pressuring with this set. Miat's and similar addons make dodging frag burst a joke.

Look, I understood that this topic would be unpopular because sorcs are just so OP, and thus people think it's fair or their right to bypass shields with oblivion damage. Hell in zone chat I'll see complaints that 5+ people couldn't kill this one magsorc then subsequently wiped to him, then some random 300CP AR16 stamblade and I go in and kill him within a minute or two. But we can't call that an L2P issue or we trigger someone else.

Let me propose some 5 piece sets to give you an idea of why shieldbreaker is basically broken powerful.

Dodgebreaker: If your enemy dodges your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).
Guardbreaker: If your enemy blocks your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).

I mean what's the problem? If you don't dodge or block the light attacks then you won't take any damage from the set... Oh wait, that's your primary method of mitigating damage? Too bad, that guy in the back is wearing a 5 piece set.