Shieldbreaker escaped proc set nerfs

Alpheu5

People still use Shieldbreaker?

ak_pvp

OK...

So the only counter to sorcs is specifically changing your build to deal with them, or investing CP into a shattering blows. (IMO should work like siphoner to weaken the shield rather than give more damage, bruteforcing infinistacked shields sux.) Nothing passive like a defile or penalty for stack/spamming it.

And you want it nerfed... Slot pet of life, heal though it, go ranged so those who one bar it can't get ya, use pets as meatshields, good lord, the class has more than enough to deal with it.

Ill tell ya what though, getting shield broken to death on my DK using igneous for healing/stam made me giggle. And I think shield breaker is a lazy fix to a problem that should have been addressed a while back.

Ernest145

Nerf shield breaker into the ground and just make it so harness and hardened don't stack. I main sorc and having those two shields just feels unnecessary, it's pretty easy to get a 10-12k hardened in pvp. That along with healing ward is more than enough for a decent mag sorc to survive with.

Drummerx04

ak_pvp wrote: »

OK...

So the only counter to sorcs is specifically changing your build to deal with them, or investing CP into a shattering blows. (IMO should work like siphoner (you mean Shattering Blows) to weaken the shield rather than give more damage, bruteforcing infinistacked shields sux.) Nothing passive like a defile or penalty for stack/spamming it.

And you want it nerfed. Slot pet of life, heal though it.

Ill tell ya what though, getting shield broken to death on my DK using igneous for healing/stam made me giggle.

I don't see the moral difference in trying to brute force a sorc vs a good templar/warden both shield stacking AND burst healing themselves, or stam builds with constant vigor/rally while dodgerolling all of your attacks that deal meaningful damage, or a magDK reflecting ranged attacks while healing by attacking you and holding block for 80% of the fight, or trying to burst a mNB force missing half your attacks while shield stacking the rest.

Sorc bars are already crowded with 3-6 almost purely defensive skills, and you suggest adding two more skills for pure defense. And a pet no less which gets killed easily leaving us hanging.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

"Dodgebreaker: If your enemy dodges your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage)"

You mean every AoE skill already in the game? Lol. Sorry but you don't need a 5 pc set to kill a dodge roll build.

ak_pvp

Drummerx04 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

OK...

So the only counter to sorcs is specifically changing your build to deal with them, or investing CP into a shattering blows. (IMO should work like siphoner (you mean Shattering Blows) to weaken the shield rather than give more damage, bruteforcing infinistacked shields sux.) Nothing passive like a defile or penalty for stack/spamming it.

And you want it nerfed. Slot pet of life, heal though it.

Ill tell ya what though, getting shield broken to death on my DK using igneous for healing/stam made me giggle.

I don't see the moral difference in trying to brute force a sorc vs a good templar/warden both shield stacking AND burst healing themselves, or stam builds with constant vigor/rally while dodgerolling all of your attacks that deal meaningful damage, or a magDK reflecting ranged attacks while healing by attacking you and holding block for 80% of the fight, or trying to burst a mNB force missing half your attacks while shield stacking the rest.

Sorc bars are already crowded with 3-6 almost purely defensive skills, and you suggest adding two more skills for pure defense. And a pet no less which gets killed easily leaving us hanging.

I see the difference.

Templar/warden has lower mobility, and defile for healing, no such thing exist for shields. Everything and its mum hits though roll, and roll has a spam+regen penalty. MagDKs wings are awful. Not only does may attacks go though it, but it still takes status effects of reflected projectiles, and has both a time and projectile limit. For 4k a pop its useless. Blocktatoes have to sacrifice damage+mobility for that level of tankiness too. An NB cloak is broken by a lot of stuff, pbaoes, gbaoes, magelight etc. No such thing for shields. NBs are so much more squshball for their damage and movability.

Sorc has much less sacrifice for what it does.

Pulse, curse, frags, execute. pet
hardened, harness, streak, surge, pet.
Healing ward no longer needed with pet of life
BONUS ROUND: Overload bar can be used for long buffs like surge and boundless, and situational stuff like conversion and mines.

Zer0oo

So many ppl have l2p issues against sorcs?

Right now 90% of the sorcs in cyro are almost free kills and the other 10% are normally good players and it will not be easy to kill them, but that is on every class so. If you now say you cant kill a sorc even if you outnumber him 5:1 you are definitely not a good pvp player.

Ocelot9x

Drummerx04 wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Is there really groups out in cyro running shield breaker?

Yes, you know those AD stamblade groups? I've encountered the same groups and players for months now. At least 4 of them are now primarily running shield breaker (good stamblades, not ones that just roll over and die when you look at them), or at the very least slot it when they see me coming (yeah kudos for planning ahead).

Kram8ion wrote: »

Groups in shield breaker sounds hilarious but unlikely

Come talk to me when you encounter 2 grand overlord, permadodge, shade porting, cloaking stamblades each running shieldbreaker, and running with a magDK for lockdown and dot pressure.

Oh, or my personal favorite. A pack of 6 Werewolves and one or two of them were wearing shieldbreaker.

castorein wrote: »

How to avoid shieldbreaker proc damage:
Dont spam cast your shields-> no shield means no proc damage

Oh? Don't cast shields? Wow, why didn't I think of that? Oh right, because a NB running shieldbreaker can still land an 8k incap.

@DocFrost72 For the suggestion to run mutagen and critsurge to counter shieldbreaker, I want to point out that you have to be actively dealing damage and landing hits for surge to proc. You are not attacking while shielding the rest of the damage, and you are not landing hits that get dodged or "missed" with cloak. Add in more time lost for breaking CC or dodging or even blocking a CC.

But a real player will also apply actual damage in a 1v1, and if the player is even a little decent, some of that damage will make it through the shields. Your mutagen and surge get overcome very quickly in practice. Yes, resto ult is also an option, but at that point you are sacrificing offensive burst which you NEED to kill some of the players pressuring with this set. Miat's and similar addons make dodging frag burst a joke.

---

Look, I understood that this topic would be unpopular because sorcs are just so OP, and thus people think it's fair or their right to bypass shields with oblivion damage. Hell in zone chat I'll see complaints that 5+ people couldn't kill this one magsorc then subsequently wiped to him, then some random 300CP AR16 stamblade and I go in and kill him within a minute or two. But we can't call that an L2P issue or we trigger someone else.

---

Let me propose some 5 piece sets to give you an idea of why shieldbreaker is basically broken powerful.

Dodgebreaker: If your enemy dodges your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).
Guardbreaker: If your enemy blocks your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).

I mean what's the problem? If you don't dodge or block the light attacks then you won't take any damage from the set... Oh wait, that's your primary method of mitigating damage? Too bad, that guy in the back is wearing a 5 piece set.

I stoppedp paying attention at your bull**** when you said "Dodge breaker": 40% of the DMG on cyro is already undodgeable so pls,stop complaining and l2p if u can't survive shieldbreaker

Chilly-McFreeze

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

2000 damage per tic, LOL...

Every damn nerf of buff in this game is for Mag Sorcs, and your still crying? Sheild breaker was just nerfed on staffs because MagSorcs couldn't handle that, what else?

regen poison nerf
defending weapon nerf
Viper nerf
increase mundus
increase magika
got rid of the DK heavy attack inferno staff build
Necropotence Buff

every buff/nerf the past year has either directly or indirectly helped magSorcs, 80% of Cyrodil or Battlegrounds is sheild stacking Sorcs, wanna do a Vet Trial... need a Sorc, LOL

Can't even believe I read this crap, try playing a real class for a while instead of just copying the Meta.

Thanks for making my day so early in the morning. This is hilarious on so many levels.

First of - it's cost increasing poison - and everybody and their mother disliked getting hit by them. ZOS reduced them from 60% to 30% in the same patch they erased cost reduction cp and overhauled resource management in general. Sure, sorc only...

Defending brought in line with sharpened, as the latter was clearly overperforming compared to other weapon traits. To adjust defending to the same level as sharpened is only logical or otherwise you'd have just another go-to trait when one clearly brings higher numbers to the table than it's counterpart. Okay, here I can see why you count this as a sorc-buff. Bc wards don't take mitigation into account. But then again, their sharpened thundersticks got nerfed as well.

Viper nerf... I take set as all proc set nerfs. It isn't like so many player from differenc classes complained about unavoidable, instant, burst damage. Nothing here cries sorc only.

Increased mundus - sorry, for a second I forgot that only mag sorcs can have a mundus on them. My mistake.

Increased magicka... from sets? Like, you know, buffed stamina, health, resistance and crit? Again, I seem to forget that only mS wears set. Sry again.

DK HA builds - they we're only attacking mSorcs? And therefore there was no problem with DKs one shotting other classes? Good to know. Also, when they changed resource management to forcing you to incorporate more heavy attacks into your rotation, DK would have had a significant boon with their strong passive for heavy attack damage.

Necro Buff - several month ago. Necro Nerf - this patch. Also, don't act like only sorcs can use necro. Wardens and NB can use them just as well. And with the change to shadowrend even DK and Templars can have a high uptime on pets.

All these helped everyone, not just sorcs. Sorry that they didn't help everyone BUT sorcs. Seems like that is what you want.

Battlegrounds have a stupid scoring mechanic (kill stealing), I give you that. However, I always encounter several different classes. I have yet to see a sorc only team.

Trials are actual mixed with sorcs and DK now.

With that being said, and with my amusement gone, I think it's save to say you won the award for the most ignorant comment today.


Edit: dammit. I should have taken a look at your profil before wasting my time answering your stupid comment. With that thread history of biased nerf-sorc requests it's futile to even try to argue these points. Whatever.

IxskullzxI

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Not to mention OBLIVION ignores resistance not sheilds....... people don't even know what the hell they are talking about that glyph gets eaten by the sheilds every time.

This is 100% not true. Oblivion damage ignores everything. It most certainly does go through shields. It goes through block and mist form as well.

Enslaved

Shieldbreaker is literally the only set out there to counter sorcs. It should be buffed, not nerfed.

Qbiken

Threads these days:

> Someone makes a "Sorc are OP in Cyrodil and needs nerf, shieldstacking is OP"
> Sorcs runs to the thread to write stuff like "L2P git gut, sorcs are easy to kill if you know how to play"
> Someone decides to use hardcounters for sorc specificly and starts using shieldbreaker.
> Sorcs starts complaining about shieldbreaker being OP because it´s a counter to their class/build

lmao this thread is gold.

Biro123

Qbiken wrote: »

Threads these days:

> Someone makes a "Sorc are OP in Cyrodil and needs nerf, shieldstacking is OP"
> Sorcs runs to the thread to write stuff like "L2P git gut, sorcs are easy to kill if you know how to play"
> Someone decides to use hardcounters for sorc specificly and starts using shieldbreaker.
> Sorcs starts complaining about shieldbreaker being OP because it´s a counter to their class/build

lmao this thread is gold.

Actually, apart from the OP and one other guy (and neither are asking for a total removal), all I see here are the sorc-haters reacting as if the sorcs are all here en-mass, defending the OP - but they're not...

fwiw, my view of shieldbreaker is that its simply too polarised.... useless vs non-shield-users, too strong vs shield-users. Combined means you don't see it all that often, but you can guarantee that when you do encounter it, it'll ALWAYS be followed by a t-bag - kind of showing the kind of people who are using it...

imho, it needs to be more effective vs everyone else and less effective vs shields - ie it should still be a counter to shields but use a different mechanism. One that will make the set more used, but less of a hard-counter. At least make it so that actual abilities need to be used as well to score a kill.

Derra

Kram8ion wrote: »

So you have a counter to your build
I think your supposed to isn't that the point

The problem is it´s a hardcounter and it´s not avoidable.

You can not choose to play a lightarmor sorc without shields. It does not work (opposed to all other classes - magDK magblade magplar are all playable without shields as main defense - sorcs are not).

Hardcounters in general are undesireable imo. Hardcounters that counter a specific class just because are plain bad design.
What makes it worse is shieldbreaker is best against a sorc/nb using only one shield. The more shields you use the less effective shieldbreaker gets (which is counterintuitive to say the least).

Imo shieldbreaker should deal flat dmg to shields and scale that dmg for every shield active with a cd of 2s.
Deals 2500 dmg to shields - every shield active multiplies this by 2 (not bypassing the shields anymore though).

So a sorc with 1 shield active gets 2500.
Stacking with 2 shields? 5000.
Healing ward on top? 10000.

Now you´re actually breaking shields.

Apoxsee

Someone care to explain to me why Sheildbreaker is an issue but Knight-slayer isn't? 10% of someone's health (average is 20k) is around 2000 like shieldbreaker, yet here we are complaining about a set that came out 2 years ago-ish of which there are counters for. This is an argument that has been going on since the set came out. The only difference now is Sorcs are the meta again so out come the counter to them.

There is a reason people stopped using it and that was Sorcs learned how to counter it, th same will happen again.

Biro123

The difference is that knight-slayer needs a heavy attack. Shield-breaker is commonly used with the fastest light-attacking weapon out there - bow. So similar damage but one fires twice as often.

I suspect the reason people stopped using it was that sorcs were in a bad place at the time so not many played them. But now, because of all the recent 'nerf sorcs' threads here, every fotm-roller is playing one - giving it a new lease of life.

SanTii.92

ak_pvp wrote: »

OK...

So the only counter to sorcs is...

Being better of said Sorc. Yes I know, mind boggling.

DocFrost72

@Drummerx04 I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with burst slotting a resto staff. Sorcs are literally bult for burst (I know I don't have to tell you that). Frags, fury, and curse alone will turtle just about everyone. And if there is a group on me with one person in the back, yes I'm going to die. I'd die with or without shieldbreaker, cause if you face competent players with a severe numbers disadvantage (3+ to my one) you are not meant to live. Sure I can find a tree and hope to get lucky and catch them slipping, but group fights agains single enemies (frustrating though they may be) are not good basis for overperforming sets and abilities.

Let us look at another example to see why. Imagine a stamblade built in typical fashion (rolly polly for DAYS). Now imagine 4 wardens with detect pots. They're going to angry birds his butt real good, aren't they? Some match ups are just going to be terrible and unavoidable in groups.

However,

If the warden isn't as good as the stamblade, that detect pot and bird doesn't inherently mean game over for the stamblade in a 1v1. All that needs to happen is LoS, maybe some form of burst healing and a decent pressure applied to get the warden off his bird catapult until the detect pot wears off.

Back to the 1v1 sorc and shieldbreaker. From the second I slap a curse on you, you better be ready to heal. You might dodge my frag with miat's (don't get me started on that...), but you're not dodging that curse. And when you dodge roll, I get a second of mutagen, and if curse crits I get surge healed. If I apply the burning status with pulse/crushing and light attack with a flame staff, I have a chance to get a surge heal while mutagen is ticking right along. If I go low health, mutagen gives me a burst heal and removes a status effect (that defile you're rightfully worried about).

Then it comes down to skill and a little luck.

It is absolutely fine if you don't like shieldbreaker or want to see it adjusted. 1v1, I don't see it as an overpowered set because a bad won't win against me just because of that set.

Drakkdjinn

Stay triggered, shield cheesers.

Derra

DocFrost72 wrote: »

It is absolutely fine if you don't like shieldbreaker or want to see it adjusted. 1v1, I don't see it as an overpowered set because a bad won't win against me just because of that set.

It´s one of those mechanic that gets stronger the more people you have with you.

Have a cloaking manablade with a restostaff spam shieldbreaker + infused oblivion torugs on you with only lightattacks while one or two other guys have a go at you. Good luck.
It´s no longer reasonably counterable (edit 09/06: it´s not reasonably counterable in any case assuming equal competence of both players)

Same as birdspam or lolassault in 1v1. You can eventually get around that. Maybe with slight adjustments to your build.
But these mechanics scale well with outnumbering your opponent and this should not be desireable for any mechanic.

Gorrest

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

DK HA builds - they we're only attacking mSorcs? And therefore there was no problem with DKs one shotting other classes? Good to know. Also, when they changed resource management to forcing you to incorporate more heavy attacks into your rotation, DK would have had a significant boon with their strong passive for heavy attack damage.

Indeed it would of been a buff, however there is a bug with Molten Armaments stacking with Elegant. For some reason, Armaments isn't stacking like before the update or its only applying a small portion of the damage. For example the patch before the sustain changes my Heavy Attacks on the Dk HA build was around 38k on mobs, but after that patch and right now its only 25k on mobs.(23k without Armaments though).

Fasold666

Derra wrote: »

It´s one of those mechanic that gets stronger the more people you have with you.

Have a cloaking manablade with a restostaff spam shieldbreaker + infused oblivion torugs on you with only lightattacks while one or two other guys have a go at you. Good luck.
It´s no longer reasonably counterable.

Yea, I am pretty sure who you are talking about.
Getting outnumbered with somebody using a SnB/bow shieldbreaker build with defensive stance and spell wall ultimate is just as fun to play against.
PC EU is awesome

Berenhir

I'm fine with a hard counter that uses up a 5-piece set. Its only useful against magblades and magsorcs. But boy, its working as intended when it comes to those...

Derra

Berenhir wrote: »

I'm fine with a hard counter that uses up a 5-piece set. Its only useful against magblades and magsorcs. But boy, its working as intended when it comes to those...

I´m opposed to any hardcounter in the game especially when it´s not a hardcounter to a mechanic but to a class.
Hardcounters simply don´t belong in a game only allowing to access 10 skills.

It was somewhat better when it didn´t come with weapons. Ever since it comes with weapons and can be active only on one bar i really don´t think of shieldbreaker as a great tradeoff anymore.

DocFrost72

Derra wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

It is absolutely fine if you don't like shieldbreaker or want to see it adjusted. 1v1, I don't see it as an overpowered set because a bad won't win against me just because of that set.

It´s one of those mechanic that gets stronger the more people you have with you.

Have a cloaking manablade with a restostaff spam shieldbreaker + infused oblivion torugs on you with only lightattacks while one or two other guys have a go at you. Good luck.
It´s no longer reasonably counterable.

Same as birdspam or lolassault in 1v1. You can eventually get around that. Maybe with slight adjustments to your build.
But these mechanics scale well with outnumbering your opponent and this should not be desireable for any mechanic.

You probably read the first 80% of my quoted post, but just in case you didn't I'll reiterate.

Some match ups will be disgusting when outnumbered.

If you rely on roll, bird spam or SA from a half decent group will wreck you.

Multiple people using PotL and curse, or dots/ground AoEs will absolutely ravage block as a defensive ability.

Getting constantly hit with defile as a healing prominent build will also bring you to your knees.

The point is though if you swap targets, those groups no longer have a gross disadvantage. Shield breaker on block or dodge roll characters is useless. Bird spam on block characters tickles like any other spammable. Bursty? Roll dodge will take care of that, phase CP gives you mitigation, and your defile means nothing to them if only 1/4 of attacks are hitting them.

There will always be hard to beat setups. And as an ESO dev clearly said before, you're not meant to beat numbers. You aren't entitled to wipe entire groups of players alone. It is not how ESO is made. Not liking that is fine, we all have preferences!

Derra

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

It is absolutely fine if you don't like shieldbreaker or want to see it adjusted. 1v1, I don't see it as an overpowered set because a bad won't win against me just because of that set.

It´s one of those mechanic that gets stronger the more people you have with you.

Have a cloaking manablade with a restostaff spam shieldbreaker + infused oblivion torugs on you with only lightattacks while one or two other guys have a go at you. Good luck.
It´s no longer reasonably counterable.

Same as birdspam or lolassault in 1v1. You can eventually get around that. Maybe with slight adjustments to your build.
But these mechanics scale well with outnumbering your opponent and this should not be desireable for any mechanic.

You probably read the first 80% of my quoted post, but just in case you didn't I'll reiterate.

Some match ups will be disgusting when outnumbered.

If you rely on roll, bird spam or SA from a half decent group will wreck you.

Multiple people using PotL and curse, or dots/ground AoEs will absolutely ravage block as a defensive ability.

Getting constantly hit with defile as a healing prominent build will also bring you to your knees.

The point is though if you swap targets, those groups no longer have a gross disadvantage. Shield breaker on block or dodge roll characters is useless. Bird spam on block characters tickles like any other spammable. Bursty? Roll dodge will take care of that, phase CP gives you mitigation, and your defile means nothing to them if only 1/4 of attacks are hitting them.

There will always be hard to beat setups. And as an ESO dev clearly said before, you're not meant to beat numbers. You aren't entitled to wipe entire groups of players alone. It is not how ESO is made. Not liking that is fine, we all have preferences!

I don´t think you understand what i mean.

I have no issue with the approach of "you´re not meant to beat numbers" - even though i personally think it´s the wrong approach as it will always happen. You can not fix inaptitude as a dev (and in trying to do so you´ll loose the inept players as they think your fixes don´t work aswell as the capable players that think your fixes are idiotic).

I have an issue with mechanics that only perform exceptionally well in situations where many fight few and only do so against certain classes/builds (aka hardcounters). If the game does not allow to win a many vs few - so be it. If the game needs to provide tools that make winning with few less likely thats bad design.
Having hardcounters makes a game unenjoyable if it does not provide you with the means to counter the hardcounters. Sadly eso is setup in a way where this is not possible - thus imo should not have hardcounter mechanics.

Alpheu5

Berenhir wrote: »

I'm fine with a hard counter that uses up a 5-piece set. Its only useful against magblades and magsorcs. But boy, its working as intended when it comes to those...

You should have roll dodged to remove the immobilizing effects, clearly.

SodanTok

Derra wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

It is absolutely fine if you don't like shieldbreaker or want to see it adjusted. 1v1, I don't see it as an overpowered set because a bad won't win against me just because of that set.

It´s one of those mechanic that gets stronger the more people you have with you.

Have a cloaking manablade with a restostaff spam shieldbreaker + infused oblivion torugs on you with only lightattacks while one or two other guys have a go at you. Good luck.
It´s no longer reasonably counterable.

Same as birdspam or lolassault in 1v1. You can eventually get around that. Maybe with slight adjustments to your build.
But these mechanics scale well with outnumbering your opponent and this should not be desireable for any mechanic.

You probably read the first 80% of my quoted post, but just in case you didn't I'll reiterate.

Some match ups will be disgusting when outnumbered.

If you rely on roll, bird spam or SA from a half decent group will wreck you.

Multiple people using PotL and curse, or dots/ground AoEs will absolutely ravage block as a defensive ability.

Getting constantly hit with defile as a healing prominent build will also bring you to your knees.

The point is though if you swap targets, those groups no longer have a gross disadvantage. Shield breaker on block or dodge roll characters is useless. Bird spam on block characters tickles like any other spammable. Bursty? Roll dodge will take care of that, phase CP gives you mitigation, and your defile means nothing to them if only 1/4 of attacks are hitting them.

There will always be hard to beat setups. And as an ESO dev clearly said before, you're not meant to beat numbers. You aren't entitled to wipe entire groups of players alone. It is not how ESO is made. Not liking that is fine, we all have preferences!

I don´t think you understand what i mean.

I have no issue with the approach of "you´re not meant to beat numbers" - even though i personally think it´s the wrong approach as it will always happen. You can not fix inaptitude as a dev (and in trying to do so you´ll loose the inept players as they think your fixes don´t work aswell as the capable players that think your fixes are idiotic).

I have an issue with mechanics that only perform exceptionally well in situations where many fight few and only do so against certain classes/builds (aka hardcounters). If the game does not allow to win a many vs few - so be it. If the game needs to provide tools that make winning with few less likely thats bad design.
Having hardcounters makes a game unenjoyable if it does not provide you with the means to counter the hardcounters. Sadly eso is setup in a way where this is not possible - thus imo should not have hardcounter mechanics.

I (think) I agree there (if I get your point). Shieldbreaker is pretty much useless 1v1 vs shield user, but it wrecks 10v1. That should not be the case. For a shield counter set that costs 5 items to equip, it should be good choice against shield users at 1v1, because they are also the strongest at that matchup. Obviously lowering the potential of zerg using it, but that is always hard task to do.
Making it set that is good against shields (literally shields, not bypassing them) is one way to do it. Damage is already good against shields (so if 10 people wearing set against shield perform as 15-20 without is not big deal). It would force user to shield more often meaning either more downtime or bigger resource pressure => literally what counters should do ( I may go there against my past reasons to support cliff racer, but thats because I dont see really way to pressure dodge roll defense without making stuff go through it).
The view on this changed with time. Before oblivion enchant there was no reliable way to 'execute' shield user, now with easily available enchant, maybe its time for shieldbreaker to became actually good counter set and not something that is bad or OP depending on situation.

Apoxsee

The oblivion (unresistable damage) has been around since the beginning of the game.

DocFrost72

Derra wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

It is absolutely fine if you don't like shieldbreaker or want to see it adjusted. 1v1, I don't see it as an overpowered set because a bad won't win against me just because of that set.

It´s one of those mechanic that gets stronger the more people you have with you.

Have a cloaking manablade with a restostaff spam shieldbreaker + infused oblivion torugs on you with only lightattacks while one or two other guys have a go at you. Good luck.
It´s no longer reasonably counterable.

Same as birdspam or lolassault in 1v1. You can eventually get around that. Maybe with slight adjustments to your build.
But these mechanics scale well with outnumbering your opponent and this should not be desireable for any mechanic.

You probably read the first 80% of my quoted post, but just in case you didn't I'll reiterate.

Some match ups will be disgusting when outnumbered.

If you rely on roll, bird spam or SA from a half decent group will wreck you.

Multiple people using PotL and curse, or dots/ground AoEs will absolutely ravage block as a defensive ability.

Getting constantly hit with defile as a healing prominent build will also bring you to your knees.

The point is though if you swap targets, those groups no longer have a gross disadvantage. Shield breaker on block or dodge roll characters is useless. Bird spam on block characters tickles like any other spammable. Bursty? Roll dodge will take care of that, phase CP gives you mitigation, and your defile means nothing to them if only 1/4 of attacks are hitting them.

There will always be hard to beat setups. And as an ESO dev clearly said before, you're not meant to beat numbers. You aren't entitled to wipe entire groups of players alone. It is not how ESO is made. Not liking that is fine, we all have preferences!

I don´t think you understand what i mean.

I have no issue with the approach of "you´re not meant to beat numbers" - even though i personally think it´s the wrong approach as it will always happen. You can not fix inaptitude as a dev (and in trying to do so you´ll loose the inept players as they think your fixes don´t work aswell as the capable players that think your fixes are idiotic).

I have an issue with mechanics that only perform exceptionally well in situations where many fight few and only do so against certain classes/builds (aka hardcounters). If the game does not allow to win a many vs few - so be it. If the game needs to provide tools that make winning with few less likely thats bad design.
Having hardcounters makes a game unenjoyable if it does not provide you with the means to counter the hardcounters. Sadly eso is setup in a way where this is not possible - thus imo should not have hardcounter mechanics.

I agree with everything here.

The counter to numbers in this game is equal (or near to it anyway) numbers, or escapes (stealth pots, streak, etc. If you're being focused by ten shieldbreaker players and they only chase you, a team behind you will absolutely maul them. If you see a zerg approaching, disengage if you can. You won't always be always be to.

Yes, 10 shieldbreaker vs a sorc will hurt a lot and be no fun and all for the sorc. Ten shield breakers verse a well built stam dk/stam sorc though, you have a shot.

I guess I'd agree fully if shieldbreaker worked against everything. It doesn't, just like builds that block a lot could care less about ten birds, or builds that roll a lot could care less about ten people perma defiling them.

The thing that does all that though, is oblivion enchants, and I do think those need to be rethought.