Overall Gameplay too difficult?

Arundo · June 2014

@Hilgara‌

Hilgara wrote: »

Arundo wrote: »

So instead of enjoying the game as we want we have to follow a certain playstyle to get further with leveling ?

I get that you have to research your gear and build and play the cookiecutter builds for raiding and hardcore grouping but for simple leveling ? Thats just wrong.

Listen to your own argument. You are saying you want a game that requires no thought to level. One that you can just throw any combination of abilities together then faceroll the quests. No, that is the one thing this game should never do, scale the difficulty to the least skilled or laziest players in the game because those are the only ones complaining about difficulty. If ZoS dumb this game down any more they will lose the silent majority.

The silent majority isnt the elitist group but the casuals who leave for other better balanced games.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

purple-magicb16_ESO · June 2014

...also I don't mind dying once in a while. I'm not afraid to admit I have died a number of times. To those who say they have reached vet lvl status and have never died, I say you're not pushing yourself hard enough. They're playing it too safe. Oh yeah, and I have experienced dying as a result latency in the game, notfn but a fact of online gaming. That I understand.

Reykice · June 2014

I don`t think its difficult but i agree that they need to add difficulty sliders... so the casual players can play the VR content.

Its the main reason i did not get this for my GF... i roll through them i made sure i use an optimal build so i can solo where i see other players die even when they are 2 or 3 vs that boss.

Ask them to just make difficulty sliders, less rewards but weaker NPC`s... and maybe a guide section where they post the builds that actually work....

You can play how you want but only a few builds are actually good for soloing, most will just make you die a lot.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

I am not a fan of having to "hulk-out" in order to power through an enemy boss.

We expect bosses to be hard. It's the Kryptonite Enhanced trash mobs that people object to.

Arundo · June 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

I am not a fan of having to "hulk-out" in order to power through an enemy boss.

We expect bosses to be hard. It's the Kryptonite Enhanced trash mobs that people object to.

This basicly sums it up yes.

I dont mind hard bosses, dungeons or raids. Getting to brick walls in raiding in my past MMO's like WOW, SWTOR, Rift, Age of Conan and GW2 didnt matter you just tried harder. But dying every 5 random mob packs isnt fun anymore.

Aeaeren · June 2014

You might have to try something else with the bosses.
For example

Templar using Destro/Restro Staff

I rolled into the boss's Room with Destro, she split into 2 of her, If you kill one they other will then make another copy. I kept freezing one and then beating on the other. I died a few times and decided to try something different. Switched to pure Restro and Templar regens for health and Stamina. Drained one mob down while the other was frozen and blocking when they charged. I drained them both down to like 7% then Biting Jabs for the win.

You have to think outside of the box sometimes and try other things with the bosses.

The worse of the worse for me is the Harvestors. I absolutely hate them and still need to figure out a good reliable way of beating them.

LonePirate · June 2014

malbaboeb17_ESO wrote: »

edu.journeymanub17_ESO wrote: »

and have luck to find trash mobs that do damage like this:

It was insta-death for me

No, that's not insta-death. They have mentioned that "death cap" isn't perfect yet and it compresses "damage over time" from the same skill. What you see there, isn't "one hit" but several "smaller hits" from same skill.

Actually, Volley is a "rain of arrows" and if you took that kind of damage, means you didn't move out of the red circle on the floor, in time.

Your explanation might sound reasonable to a few players; but when you have a trash mob of three that are constantly throwing down red zone abilities, you cannot move away from them all, let alone inflict the necessary damage to take that group of three down to two than to one and finally none. If there is a healer in the group that heals their target to 100% in one or two seconds at most, the mob is almost invincible for a solo player.

I suppose some genius will say you need to interrupt or bash the healer; but that only gives you enough time to attack one of the other two targets before the healer resumes their instant mob heal session.

If ZOS doesn't want to lower the HP or damage inflicted by the VR mobs, then they should slow them down in order to give the outnumbered player a fighting chance. As it is now, simple VR trash mobs are far too difficult for at least 90% of the playing community.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

Arundo wrote: »

I dont mind hard bosses, dungeons or raids. Getting to brick walls in raiding in my past MMO's like WOW, SWTOR, Rift, Age of Conan and GW2 didnt matter you just tried harder. But dying every 5 random mob packs isnt fun anymore.

As much as it will upset the more Awesome (tm) among us. What I'd ideally want from VR is a relative difficulty tuned to be maybe 20% higher thaan the normal faction difficulty. I want to have to play my sword/Bow NB pretty well to avoid death. I do not want to have to change to a build and style I don't want and have to play it close to perfectly just to get through trash mobs.

I'm sorry if that makes me 'casual' (even though I was considered pretty hard core on lotro) but when I come home in the evening I want to have a fun not a frustrating experience.

Except in clear group situations I do not want to have to rely on a group to get through what was solo content. Especially as the phase system makes it hard to group with anyone not at exactly the same part of the quest line as you.

But like I've said - Zen have made their choices. They made VR extremely long and difficult by design. I'm sure they already have a big customer fall-off factored into their financial plans.

The only question is - is it big enough? I suspect, purely because I was formerly a 'sell me a lifetime sub, here for the long haul' epic fan, that they have misjudged it badly.

But who knows.

Graelock · June 2014

Not at all...in no other MMO can one reasonably solo any quest that is 6-7 levels above you...not without a master build. I may struggle on a boss here and there, being 6-7 level below, but someone most usually comes to the rescue to help out if that is the case...or I come back after I've gone up a level (very rare scenario) and that most usually does it. Most of my hardship comes from having been a vampire since level 11 (now a lvl 37 and lvl 8 vampire) and when I'm nailed by spammed fire, I go down in one hit. Most of the time, though, I can resort to my "desperation swap" if it gets bad enough, and start with a stealth bonus attack, then shoot off a poison arrow, stealth, knock-back arrow, stealth, arrow spray (with poison morph), stealth, siphon heal, stealth etc. and take them down in a painfully slower fashion (but sometimes quite the opposite)...but it takes them a long time to even get to me this way lol

Arundo · June 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Arundo wrote: »

The only question is - is it big enough? I suspect, purely because I was formerly a 'sell me a lifetime sub, here for the long haul' epic fan, that they have misjudged it badly.

But who knows.

Same here, I have only time for one game due to work and reallife. Being in my mid thirties does not give me much time to play. I have chosen ESO to be that game but if I cant have fun i dont know.

I still love the game with its lore and its strong base I just hope things will be better in the near future. Because playing a game which only frustrates me isnt something I plan to spend my precious free time on.

Dayv · June 2014

I don't think they really intended the difficulty to be like it is. They just applied a crude scaling algorithm and waited to see how it came out. The way it came out is that it is that it massively favours high magicka builds. Now they've got themselves in a pickle because some people like it whilst others just find it really off-putting. I'm pretty sure ZOS aren't trying to cater for the hardcore market more than the casuals, it's just how it turned out appearing and now they have to walk on eggshells because they really don't want to say "this game's not for you"

DrPainZA · June 2014

At points yes I would agree the game is too difficult. I was not able to defeat Manimarco without being 6 lvls higher that the quest level. I was just not dealing enough damage and he and his minions were messing me up.

I had the same issue with Molarg Bal, but I ended up having to re-speck my abilities. And crafting 2 different sets of armor "Song of the Lamae Set" and "Seducer Set" to be able to sufficiently bump up all my characters aspects in order to stand a change to defeat him. Having tried 2 days, I finally beat him.

For the casual player this is quite frustrating, but at the same time it's meant to be a challenge, and for you to find a solution.

Arundo · June 2014

@DrPainZA

Minimarco and Molag Bal where bosses and the end bosses of something big those can be hard and with some tries and errors thats all fine. But doing that for random trash mobs isnt fun.

Have you been in the VR zones ? (just a question) you will notice the difference. Some packs will make the minimarco fight and Molag Bal look easy

aeneas_21b14_ESO · June 2014

I play as a VR12 dual-wield NB and will admit some of the solo content has been difficult and frustrating at times, yet I made it. But I hit a brick wall with a quest involving storm atronachs. I died dozens of times trying to get even one down and finally begged others to come help. The next time I encountered them for a quest, I switched to a restoration staff and used a build I'd read about in Tamriel Foundry. I couldn't believe the difference. It was nigh impossible for me to kill a storm atronach using daggers and going all out, but with a restoration staff I didn't even need to burn my ultimate to get one down.

This is my complaint, since that's what the thread is all about. VR content is hard and could use some tuning, but there's a huge imbalance between weapon skills and there should not be this much of a gap. Since practically every player I see in the high VR zones have a staff equipped, it appears the VR content funnels everyone into a particular build to succeed. It shouldn't be like this.

Reykice · June 2014

aeneas_21b14_ESO wrote: »

I play as a VR12 dual-wield NB and will admit some of the solo content has been difficult and frustrating at times, yet I made it. But I hit a brick wall with a quest involving storm atronachs. I died dozens of times trying to get even one down and finally begged others to come help. The next time I encountered them for a quest, I switched to a restoration staff and used a build I'd read about in Tamriel Foundry. I couldn't believe the difference. It was nigh impossible for me to kill a storm atronach using daggers and going all out, but with a restoration staff I didn't even need to burn my ultimate to get one down.

This is my complaint, since that's what the thread is all about. VR content is hard and could use some tuning, but there's a huge imbalance between weapon skills and there should not be this much of a gap. Since practically every player I see in the high VR zones have a staff equipped, it appears the VR content funnels everyone into a particular build to succeed. It shouldn't be like this.

To be honest... i tried to solo things and got killed as a Destro Staff user... then changed to a Resto Staff and it was easy. Healing is what made the difference.

You can pretty much use a Resto Staff and solo most of the content as the Resto Staff eliminates the Nr.1 problem players have: getting killed. Sure the DPS is lower but then again who cares, you are no longer on a timer to kill them before they kill you... you can take your time. The fact that you also recover 10% of you magicka when you do a heavy attack just makes you able to outlast anything...

Maybe they should do it the GW2 way: give players a healing spell with a 30s CD or something... that costs no resources to use so its not magicka or stamina related...

edu.journeymanub17_ESO · June 2014

I'm almost finished there, last zone, all quests, VR10, since the last week soloing the bosses and max 2-3 ppl to close dolmens, there are still 2 bosses I need to beat in the previous areas to get the achievement.

Enjoyable? Not even close, and that is why my subscription is canceled for now. Don't get me wrong, I want to see ESO being what was the dream of every developer at Zenimax/Bethesda and every ES series fans: The best MMORPG all over the world.

Some could say: "If you want the game to succeed you must support the development and the subscription is important for that." Of course it is, agreed, and I would like to be very rich to spend 15 bucks/month in it, even if I'm not playing, but there is the fact that I don't agree with the direction the development is going, no matter the "Road Ahead" if each patch brings something more and more frustrating.

I really hope to be playing for long here, I'm one of that guys that warm the seat. 8 years playing EVE, 5 years playing LotRO both with subscription.

I don't know how many days left on my account and I will struggle to accomplish what I can until there, not matter if the trash mobs hit for more than Molag Bal.

Take care and have fun.

stumpy999 · June 2014

Game play level seems fine to me so far, some guys like Norion can be a pain for one class but a breeze for another. Sometimes one race's Doshia sits in a tight space and is tough to kill and sometimes big cavern and easy but on the whole it think it's pretty good at balance

martinhpb16_ESO · June 2014

claytonjhouserb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a complainer and not here to down rate just here because I've had three of my friends quit from sheer difficulty. They love the environment and the emersion just when it comes down to gameplay it is just plain stressful. No body likes to die over and over just to finish what started as a simple quest or finish a dungeon just to find an over difficult boss. Many of us prefer single player gameplay but in many places this just isnt allowed. I'm vet rank 7 and have since given up trying to continue cause I continually die. I just wish they could move down the difficulty or remove vet ranks for more casual players or roleplayers just looking for a loretastic time. All opinions appreciated.

This always happens in mmo's people complain because they can't do all of the content solo, and before you know it all of the group content is gone.

It is a very solo-centric game as it is, I was so pleased when I started playing ESO after LOTRO because there was some group stuff to do.

The difficulty level in LOTRO is a joke now as a result of this.

Dude its an MMO team up with someone from time to time, it can be fun you know.

Yankee · June 2014

I am doing VR7 now. It is not impossible to solo. I usually die only if I make a mistake.

But after countless quests and overpowered mob trios it has become, well,.....tedious.

I am having a difficult time relating tedious to ........fun.

So I am going days at a time now playing very short sessions, then logging off. Very unusual for me in a new MMO.

Thinking about leveling another character to 50 for something else to do in the game. The problem is that I have seen most all the world and quests already a few times.

The game has such potential, but I am struggling to stay interested.

martinhpb16_ESO · June 2014

Dayv wrote: »

This is an issue that keeps coming up on these forums again and again. If it isn't the biggest make or break issue this game has, it's certainly up there. There are people deserting because of it. I also acknowledge that there are some players seem to like this difficulty (I can't fathom why) but it's really about time ZoS addressed it. Either saying they intend to keep things this level of difficulty or they're going to make it more accessible for average players and tone it down. They know that this is an issue but keep sitting on the fence by alluding to upcoming changes to VR but mention nothing about the difficulty level. I just can't see this working on consoles the way it is now. It's about time ZOS gave us some feedback.

So you don't want any challenge just faceroll everything?

KariTR · June 2014

People complaining about the difficulty will often mention dying to packs of three 'trash' mobs. If there was one thing I learned very quickly at VR1 it was not to pick a fight when outnumbered. Fortunately the environment is well-designed and singles or packs of twos were given as an alternative for those of us who can't handle larger groups. If there was no one around to help with world bosses or dolmens, oh well, move on.

Adapting to the environment instead of persisting in playing as I had through levels 1-50 meant I stopped dying and was able to finish VR zones 1 and 2 quite smoothly.

VR zone 3 notched up the difficulty again and this time I looked at my randomly dropped gear (green) and replaced it with crafted 3-set pieces along with a dropped set. That worked a treat. I'm almost VR4 now and will craft VR4 sets when I get there. And I always suspected that one day I would have to redistribute my character's attributes as they were added for short-term gain, so I have that as a fall-back, if I need it.

I'm in no particular hurry to get to cap, so I am enjoying playing the Veteran Zones. I pop into Craglorn occasionally, purely for harvesting, and look forward to the day when VR11 mobs (everywhere, yet completely avoidable) don't make me round-eyed in awe, but no rush.

In summary:

Don't think you are entitled to do everything as a solo player Circumvent when necessary Craft yourself the best gear for your needs (and is it my imagination, or does crafted gear suffer less deterioration than non-crafted?) Try out one or two of those skills you learned but never used Finally, if you really, really hate the VR levelling as it is currently but enjoyed levels 1-50, roll an alt in a different campaign and enjoy another 50 levels of peaceful exploration.
ETA: I could slap myself. Of course my repair bills are tiny now, not because the items are crafted, but because I can survive most encounters.

Graelock · June 2014

Oh...now that some of you guys have mentioned it, I have found the campaign to be a bit odd. From a questing perspective I find it just fine, but that might just be my playing style and the fact that I play defensively and not offensively e.g. stealth, sneak attack, kite/ skir, poison arrow, stealth, knock-back etc...but from a campaign perspective, I didn't realize it until someone here mentioned it, but yeah, you could be 5 levels hire and still have a harder time than you should.

Mortosk · June 2014

Nyswar wrote: »

Sendarya wrote: »

Yes, in vet levels, there are many, many trash mobs that require perfect execution or you die. Stand in their AOE for 1 second ONE time, and you die. That is endgame boss mob hard, not outdoor trash mob hard.

Yes folks, another person who is clearly talking about level 1 through 50 when the rest of us are talking about vet level content (especially vet levels 3+).

Maybe read the thread or at least the entire OP before commenting...mmmkay?

I have only been talking about veteran levels this entire time. I'm a VR8 dual-wield/bow Nightblade, so by forum "logic," I'm playing the weakest, most broken class ever.

If you get one-shotted by a regular enemy of your VR level, then odds are that enemy is one of the rare ones that is still overtuned after the hotfix. Instead of complaining that all VR mobs are too difficult, maybe you should report an obviously broken enemy mob.

Melee DPS templars might take issue with your first paragraph.

Sakiri · June 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

Arundo wrote: »

So instead of enjoying the game as we want we have to follow a certain playstyle to get further with leveling ?

I get that you have to research your gear and build and play the cookiecutter builds for raiding and hardcore grouping but for simple leveling ? Thats just wrong.

Listen to your own argument. You are saying you want a game that requires no thought to level. One that you can just throw any combination of abilities together then faceroll the quests. No, that is the one thing this game should never do, scale the difficulty to the least skilled or laziest players in the game because those are the only ones complaining about difficulty. If ZoS dumb this game down any more they will lose the silent majority.

Except that thats a hallmark of TES games that we were promised would carry over.

Dayv · June 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

This is an issue that keeps coming up on these forums again and again. If it isn't the biggest make or break issue this game has, it's certainly up there. There are people deserting because of it. I also acknowledge that there are some players seem to like this difficulty (I can't fathom why) but it's really about time ZoS addressed it. Either saying they intend to keep things this level of difficulty or they're going to make it more accessible for average players and tone it down. They know that this is an issue but keep sitting on the fence by alluding to upcoming changes to VR but mention nothing about the difficulty level. I just can't see this working on consoles the way it is now. It's about time ZOS gave us some feedback.

So you don't want any challenge just faceroll everything?

@martinhpb16_ESO, if by faceroll you mean do I find having to spec dress and stick and approaching every single trash fight as something that needs utmost concentration tedious, then yes just like loads of other people I want to faceroll everything. Let's be honest, I might as well just tell you that I want to faceroll it, because unless I tell you "Oh no! I was wrong to think there's anything wrong with the level of VR difficulty. You're completely correct", you aren't going to accept that I want to do anything other than faceroll everything. That opinion of yours is so implicit in your ever so eloquently-worded question.

Sakiri · June 2014

Arundo wrote: »

@DrPainZA

Minimarco and Molag Bal where bosses and the end bosses of something big those can be hard and with some tries and errors thats all fine. But doing that for random trash mobs isnt fun.

Have you been in the VR zones ? (just a question) you will notice the difference. Some packs will make the minimarco fight and Molag Bal look easy

Molag bal *is* easy unless you wolf out and have ww form bug out like I did.

Run circles and light attack spam til he dies.

DrPainZA · June 2014

Only started in the VR zone now, but now a feeling of impending doom is washing over me

Sakiri · June 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

claytonjhouserb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a complainer and not here to down rate just here because I've had three of my friends quit from sheer difficulty. They love the environment and the emersion just when it comes down to gameplay it is just plain stressful. No body likes to die over and over just to finish what started as a simple quest or finish a dungeon just to find an over difficult boss. Many of us prefer single player gameplay but in many places this just isnt allowed. I'm vet rank 7 and have since given up trying to continue cause I continually die. I just wish they could move down the difficulty or remove vet ranks for more casual players or roleplayers just looking for a loretastic time. All opinions appreciated.

This always happens in mmo's people complain because they can't do all of the content solo, and before you know it all of the group content is gone.

It is a very solo-centric game as it is, I was so pleased when I started playing ESO after LOTRO because there was some group stuff to do.

The difficulty level in LOTRO is a joke now as a result of this.

Dude its an MMO team up with someone from time to time, it can be fun you know.

The parts we want to, we cant, and the parts we can we dont need to.

Quest phasing is horrible and the "immersion " crowd is staunchly against solutions that could work because Hate forbid you see something you didnt do while helpng someone else.

Tatuaje · June 2014

You asked, my .02..... YMMV, but this is the easiest MMO I have ever played. About once every 3 days or so I will hit a spot I call out to a guild member to help out, but over all. No complexity to TESO.

Moonchilde · June 2014

This thread has been a strange read. I signed up for this game after beta because I wanted a challenging game, that did not let in destructive F2P hordes. If this game gets easy, or goes F2P, I will likely move on. There has to be challenging games on the market, or another silent majority leaves. I don't know if Zenimax has chosen a 'target market' yet, since the product isn't finished. But I really hope its not the "I click this and win" market. No offense, that is a perfectly valid playstyle, I just think we as players need to know that we found the right game and are getting what we pay for.