Overall Gameplay too difficult?
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Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There are players who wants a game that gives challenges and is harder to then most other MMOs, yes.
ESO is not for everyone, and I still do not understand how for example a WoW player, who is very happy with the WoW style where everything is supposed easy, would even look at ESO? (Wow is a great game for those who like it easy).
I am not the only MMO player who have waited for a MMO where you actually need to play it, and FAIL, so you can learn, adapt and oh...this is a big one..THINK about your game play.
I came here because Nirn > Azeroth lorewise and while Im a top end raider from 3 other MMOs, they were trying to get the TES group too.
What *you* dont understand, is that all TES games are easier than WoW when you set the slider all the way down.
Have you ever played any of the Elder Scrolls games? If you want a challenge, you set the difficulty at such and GO LOOK FOR IT.
Just because I played Oblivion on Master and Skyrim on Legendary without the OI glitch, crafted gear or potions(frostfang spider venom 4lyfe) doesnt mean everyone else does, and designing an Elder Scrolls MMO aimed at trying to pull in the non MMO TES crowd and neglecting to remember that most likely have the slider all the way down to "I suck"(my friend's words not mine) is an asinine design decision.
Not everyone here was a WoW junky. I quit there for here, but my friend's last MMO was EQ2. Never played WoW. And even now EQ2 is *still* harder than WoW 10 years later.
TL;DR youre basically saying you dont understand how easy MMO players would come here so heres your answer- theyre not MMO players, theyre "novice difficulty" Elder Scrolls players.
They didnt come for "challenging MMO" thry came for "The Elder Scrolls".3 -
severite1952cub18_ESOSoul ShrivenI have cancelled my sub, as to why Im here, now, I have 2 more days till my subscription runs out, and I dunno, with how much bloody fun I had 1-50, and even the first two zones VR-1, I just keep hoping somehow that it will be acknowledged, and be better, even though the likelihood it will be fixed pre half year mark is pretty much nil. However, I played a heavy armor dragonknight, with 20 magicka, 15 health, and 14 stamina spent, and sword and shield, and just could not get past this three man group in greenshade without using an ultimate. And, seeing how the difficulty in the content is only ramping up, I just reached a point, where Im done, whatever, I will go back to playing TES games. Presently playing morroblivion. Oh, and Im not comparing this to some other MMO that ZOS just isn't emulating, and how dare they? I don't play WoW, I have never liked it. I did play Rift for a long time, but there is a reason Im not there anymore, either. I guess my point is, I expected better, for the amount of money I poured into this game.
Oh, and this most certainly IS a single player game in many respects, at least so far as questing, goes, otherwise, my wife would have been able to join me, helping me kill those three but she could not, because she had already completed that particular quest, and the frustration would never have built to the point where I just quit, and was done with it. And, of course, what build is she playing? A destruction/restoration staff, with cloth magicka regenerating armor.
EDIT: Also, I know the mechanics, or moving out of stuff, bashing red streams, blocking gold streams, and.....yeah, any build built on mitigation, which is what I built, is inherently flawed, and ultimately seemingly useless.Edited by severite1952cub18_ESO on June 8, 2014 10:57PM3 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Is it frustrating to die? Sure, sometimes it is. But is it boring to have a game where players don't feel any sense of accomplishment after a fight because they never had to do anything except stand in front of the enemy and spam the same ability over and over? Absolutely. There is absolutely no encounter in this game that is "too" difficult. Challenge is good, and many of us really prefer having to pay attention when fighting.
Jeez if only we lived in one of those cool alternate realities where options are not just either/or.
Either combat is going to have a learning curve, or it's not. There really isn't a middle ground.
Once you learn the mechanics, fights stop being too difficult and become an enjoyable challenge.
My friend knows the mechanics.
He still cant kill harvesters.3 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭I give this game another month or 2 before it loses roughly half of those that currently play it. Then it will go F2P soon after and die a slow death.
If they want to save it they have to start making massive, sweeping changes.
#1 Should be triple the XP gain in Veteran areas.
#2 Should be cut the damage output of Veteran Mobs in half.
#3 Should be double Magicka and Stamina regeneration in combat and triple it out of combat.
#4 Should be Make melee DPS builds viable and completely rework Medium and Heavy Armor bonuses and melee DPS based class skills, skew them all somehow in favor of AOE. Heavy Armor should actually be given the benefit of being able to mitigate damage, currently it feels like I'm wearing paper mache, not plate. And, please do something about Templars, we are a frigging joke, ok?
#5 Should be double available Inventory space, because just provisioning mats take up an entire bank - and that reminds me - would you do something about provisioning, please? The purple recipes are too rare. The veteran zones drop low level ingredients. The hireling only ingredients are too rare. And you have several recipes that don't improve from tier to tier, they provide exactly the same bonuses, wth?
This would go a long ways to improving things, but there's a lot more work to do to make end game interesting.
I really hope they have the resources and fortitude to do what needs to be done, but somehow I don't believe it will happen.Edited by Mortosk on June 8, 2014 11:11PM"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)3 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
[Moderator Edit: Edited/Removed quote from moderated post.]
You are so far from getting it, you're somewhere near Pluto. What you call 'casuals' are also people like me. Experienced, been playing for years MMO types who enjoy good, challenging gameplay. I like good, complex raids as much as the next man.
This isn't good gameplay. It is a specious grind. It is not 'challenging' it is ridiculous, especially when coupled with stupid repair and respec costs and the all builds except one essentially crippled. Not to mention at least 2 classes so weak that it's a joke.
The problem is - it's just not fun, even to me - an experienced MMO player and a huge ES fan.
If ESO is to be a huge sub game it has to appeal to more than those happy to grind through combat after combat, eating huge repair bills for a story that makes no sense.
I'm used to challenge coming from more than applying a huge multiplier to standard trash mobs. That is just lazy. Which is what this whole VR is. A lazy and cheap side-step of providing the end-game they probably intended.
Real challenge comes from complex content not trash mobs spamming artificially ramped up attacks most players cannot deal with with the crippled classes, crippled builds and crippled UI. specifically weapon swapping, intermittent skill failures and latency.
You can keep telling yourself about the huge player base that's going to stick with this model but sooner rather than later the people really in control are going to look at the subs and look at the non-renewals and they're going to ask 2 questions:
What the hell is going on and what are you going to do about it?
None of us will like the answers.
This. Those of us that love this game and want to to succeed are able to see the bigger picture here. And it is very simple. Any good AAA MMO needs happy casual gamers just as much as it needs happy hardcore gamers. Catering to only one crowd or the other will lead to a disastrous decline in subscriptions. Such a decline will be almost impossible to climb out of.
I still believe that the solution would be to leave the dungeons challenging and tone down the VR trash mobs. That formula is tried and true and has proven to be successful in countless MMOs. But there needs to be a balance. There needs to be a little something for everyone. Right now ESO is a hardcore gamers playground. I am somewhere in the middle. I grumble sometimes but I still enjoy it and I am progressing.
But there are sooo many casual gamers that just want a place to chill and they are willing to throw astronomical amounts of money at ZoS if they would only toss them a bone.
I have seen some very insightful opinions from both sides of the isle here and I appreciate that. Constructive feedback is helpful and we all know that threads like this get attention.
Sadly you will always have narrow minded tunnel visioned opinions, but hopefully maturity will prevail here.
I'm a casual gamer. I prefer games with a challenge.
I dont call hitting a brick wall thats swinging a wrecking ball at me with a pillow wearing toilet paper a challenge, I call it a pain in the ass.
Increase mobs damage output, leave armor and hp alone. Would have solved a lot of the slog.1 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Is it frustrating to die? Sure, sometimes it is. But is it boring to have a game where players don't feel any sense of accomplishment after a fight because they never had to do anything except stand in front of the enemy and spam the same ability over and over? Absolutely. There is absolutely no encounter in this game that is "too" difficult. Challenge is good, and many of us really prefer having to pay attention when fighting.
Jeez if only we lived in one of those cool alternate realities where options are not just either/or.
Either combat is going to have a learning curve, or it's not. There really isn't a middle ground.
Once you learn the mechanics, fights stop being too difficult and become an enjoyable challenge.
My friend knows the mechanics.
He still cant kill harvesters.
So true, the same way I know the mechanics of tennis and the tactics to win but I still would get facerolled by Nadal...
I have got much better over the weeks of playing but some people just have better reflexes and hand eye coordination than others.
GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum1 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭Elder_Thorn wrote: »i am v1 now, and i found it way to easy until now. I wish i'd be a bit harder
Boy are you in for a rude awakening soon.
"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)5 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭
Yep, your right. There are plenty of mobs that can pretty much 1 shot you. For example the below screenshot is from a harvester mob that I had to kill for a quest. The ability it used 1 shot me at full health (even with overcharged spell resist). It was a frontal cone attack which has a very short cast time (about 1 second) which is very difficult to interrupt/dodge especially when you take in to account the 500ms lag I often get from the useless "mega"server. And as a melee player it is very difficult to avoid the frontal attack and with the healing orbs the fight can go on for a very long time. So having an ability that can 1 shot you is just plain frustrating and very poor design.
Yes, in vet levels, there are many, many trash mobs that require perfect execution or you die. Stand in their AOE for 1 second ONE time, and you die. That is endgame boss mob hard, not outdoor trash mob hard.As I recall, it was the aspect of the game that beta testers almost universally praised.
Oh, and there is no trash mob in this game that requires "perfect" execution. Even as a vampire, I can take fire damage from a trash mob's power attack and still win the fight. I'll have to do some quick healing, but why don't you think I should be punished for standing in the fire?
Harvesters are one of the mobs in the game that are completely over tuned and need to be nerfed.
"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes, in vet levels, there are many, many trash mobs that require perfect execution or you die. Stand in their AOE for 1 second ONE time, and you die. That is endgame boss mob hard, not outdoor trash mob hard.
Yes folks, another person who is clearly talking about level 1 through 50 when the rest of us are talking about vet level content (especially vet levels 3+).
Maybe read the thread or at least the entire OP before commenting...mmmkay?
I have only been talking about veteran levels this entire time. I'm a VR8 dual-wield/bow Nightblade, so by forum "logic," I'm playing the weakest, most broken class ever.
If you get one-shotted by a regular enemy of your VR level, then odds are that enemy is one of the rare ones that is still overtuned after the hotfix. Instead of complaining that all VR mobs are too difficult, maybe you should report an obviously broken enemy mob.----
Murray?0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They said they fixed them but it has to be killed before itll respawn normally... because a server wide /kill would be hard to do apparently.0 -
They said they fixed them but it has to be killed before itll respawn normally... because a server wide /kill would be hard to do apparently.
That said "fix" was a hotfix the day after Craglorn to avoid reset the server, nevertheless, the servers went in maintenance 2 times since then, including another patch and the issue was not fixed.
Last staff response to this was:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Ok, for those that aren't seeing a change in monster difficulty even after a death and respawn, could you let us know exactly which monsters it is so we can take a look on our end?0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The issue existed prior to the Craglorn patch. Every encounter, especially 3 mobs or more in VR content is tuned for hardcore gamers. Casual players are leaving in droves. I guess I am wasting energy trying to explain the problem this poses.
But then when the game is dead and F2p, all of the "l2p scrub good riddance" crowd will just leave.4 -
They have completely restarted the servers since that however. At least I think so. They said that you had to kill them because it wasnt time for maintenance yet (it was around 2-3 days), they could only make that change so that it updated on respawn.They said they fixed them but it has to be killed before itll respawn normally... because a server wide /kill would be hard to do apparently.
There are still some seriously iffy mobs that look kind of normal but still do insane damage. I havent seen any same mobs with difference in HP like when they completely bugged it, except the normal low-hp, med-hp, high-hp different class of mobs. Its not really the same bug anymore. The originally bugged VR mobs was extremely noticable by having 50% more HP than the same "normal" VR mob. That was the main kicker in the teeth - they didnt just hit alot harder, they where impossible to take down due to HP.
Yesterday, I had just killed that perinria-something Harvester boss in Bangkorai and felt quite accomplished (yeah it took 3 tries until I could kill her fast enough before she popped the first orbs, lol). Only to get completely slaughtered by two puny little wisps while I was running to the waypoint for repairs. I didnt even stand a chance, lost my HP in 2 seconds flat - they didnt use power attacks, it was all auto attacks. I even tried going against them a second time knowing the damage they had - still failed horribly without taking down any of them.
Like before... Random game is random, lol. I dont think they have fixed the bug. But its impossible to tell. Maybe its working as intended.1 -
Love its difficulty, there are some oddball situations here and there, its a brand new game, but in time they will be cleaned up. Don't care to wait for that - play something else, you got dozens of 'perfect' casual games to choose from. May I suggest one - LOTRO, where you can faceroll everything in your path without ever dying; unfortunately in a week you be bored to tears.0
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Blud✭✭✭✭✭No... to the OP... bring it on!
I love that the game becomes more difficult as you progress, and you must rely on others to successfully complete goals.
This is the way MMOs are meant to be played.
Nuff said.
When there's no one left to play with, or when the game goes ftp, you will know why. When the devs stop making new content because there aren't enough subscribers, you should reread your post. If the devs who aren't laid off put their main focus on cash shop items: xp boosts, cosmetic items, pets, lockbox keys, etc., you shouldn't be here crying about it.
Let there be zones for people to group in. Let there be quests for casual people to enjoy. Why can't there be content for a variety of different types of players? It is an MMORPG after all.Edited by Blud on June 9, 2014 5:46AM7 -
Blud✭✭✭✭✭I am not the only MMO player who have waited for a MMO where you actually need to play it, and FAIL, so you can learn, adapt and oh...this is a big one..THINK about your game play.
I did learn and adapt. You know what I did? I bet you can guess. I went and dumped a ton of gold on a re-spec. Guess what my build is now? 7/7 light with resto/destro. That's all there is to learn and adapt to. Isn't that great?
Now I'm 1337 too.Edited by Blud on June 9, 2014 5:50AM8 -
patrikblb16_ESO✭✭✭Out of 200 people the guild have 50 still playing after 2 months, that should say it all?0
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AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I deleted about 1/3 of my in-game friends some days ago, they hadn't been online for a month or more0 -
Laura✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread makes me sad. I guess the next step is to be able to roll our face on the keyboard with random abilities that are placed on the bar without being read.0 -
Arundo✭✭✭✭✭This thread makes me sad. I guess the next step is to be able to roll our face on the keyboard with random abilities that are placed on the bar without being read.
Let me guess you play a light armored toon with a staff ? Not everyone wants to play that style. ZOS told us play the way you want, they forgot to add "Dont do that in VR zones you will get *** by a few random mobs."
I say this once more for those who say the game is fine, well good for you. But not everyone is as hardcore as you. I cant play 10 hours a day and I dont want to I got a social life aswell. And I dont want to be forced in some spec because otherwise I would fail over and over again.
I dont mind that there is hard concent out there but at the moment its in the way to get to max level which I never seen in any of the other MMO's I played. I dont care about the time it takes to get to VR12 but it should be fun.
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This thread makes me sad. I guess the next step is to be able to roll our face on the keyboard with random abilities that are placed on the bar without being read.
Not sure why it makes you sad that other people do not enjoy intense death defying encounters from every trash mob. What seems to be slipping through the cracks here is that hardly anyone is saying they CANT do VR content. Most people are saying they don't ENJOY it.
This is less about skill and more about taste. Good successful MMOs thrive because they find a way to cater to various tastes and play styles. ESO does not do that. VR TRASH MOBS require damn near perfect execution. It is formatted for elitist game play. And ONLY that.
If you enjoy it than great. I like it sometimes and sometimes I don't. But my concern and should be everyone's concern that wants this game to succeed is the mass exodus of casual players once they discover the kind of gameplay that is required of them in order to progress AT ALL.
Not everyone is an expert boat racer, yet does that mean they shouldn't be able to enjoy the lake with a canoe?
ESO is like a lake park relying on admission fees from everyone. Yet when folks get their canoe to the water, there is a big sign that says. "Thanks for your contribution. Speed boats only!"
Edited by Alphashado on June 9, 2014 1:35PM10
you.