Overall Gameplay too difficult?

Dayv

Laura wrote: »

This thread makes me sad. I guess the next step is to be able to roll our face on the keyboard with random abilities that are placed on the bar without being read.

This is totally unjustifed. Of all the people wanting VR to be toned down, is there really anyone who thinks that they should be ableo to play the game at VR exactly the same way they were at level 10? Please tell me if I'm wrong. Is there anyone calling for the difficulty to be toned down who doesn't expect to have to adapt their tactics as they progress through levels?

Hilgara

I like the difficulty. I have levelled a NB and a sorc and enjoyed the completely different challenge of both. Some bosses I found easy to solo on the NB but hard on the sorc and vice versa. I have had to be very inventive (especially with the NB) and this has forced me to do some research into all the skills to find the synergies that make for powerful combos that do lots of damage, generate enough resources and keep me alive. I see some really poor builds in the game. E.g. sorc running with two pets. Seriously, pets are crap in this game. They target anything you CC, do next to no damage or give next to no resources and take up two slots on your bar. Every time I see a sorc with two pets I try to avoid them because I know they have no idea about how to play the game. Yes you can play as you want....but don't expect to be as effective in a build you threw together because you liked the look of the spells and abilities as you will be with one that you researched and tested to maximise effectiveness and exploit the synergies between active and passive abilities.

AngryNord

@Dayv Don't feed the troll!

Arundo

Hilgara wrote: »

Yes you can play as you want....but don't expect to be as effective in a build you threw together because you liked the look of the spells and abilities as you will be with one that you researched and tested to maximise effectiveness and exploit the synergies between active and passive abilities.

So instead of enjoying the game as we want we have to follow a certain playstyle to get further with leveling ?

I get that you have to research your gear and build and play the cookiecutter builds for raiding and hardcore grouping but for simple leveling ? Thats just wrong.

claytonjhouserb14_ESO

I'm not saying it should be a slaughterfest of my enemies but I would enjoy being able to kill two enemies in Greenshade rank 8 without causing a stroke. There is a fine line with a difficult game and one that is on another level that sucks out any enjoyment out of it. I should be able to find a versatile way to play my own style without being facerolled every time I decide to step out of a city. But hey if you elitist think that another late game cookie cutter is what you want then be my guest it is your 15 dollars. My point is I shouldn't be punished for playing my own way in a game that was meant to be a "play your own way".

claytonjhouserb14_ESO

On another note it is not because I can't, just because I do not want to cause I don't find every encounter worth struggling over when it is supposed to be a simple peon of an enemy.

GreySix

Alphashado wrote: »

ESO is like a lake park relying on admission fees from everyone. Yet when folks get their canoe to the water, there is a big sign that says. "Thanks for your contribution. Speed boats only!"

Yeah, that's going into my signature.

Robocles

Reading this thread (and others) makes me wonder what the console sections of this forum will look like once this launches on them.

Lunerdog

Robocles wrote: »

Reading this thread (and others) makes me wonder what the console sections of this forum will look like once this launches on them.

Good grief yes, you have a point.

If the game doesn't get some balancing for the console version there may well be a bit if a fuss.

Hilgara

Arundo wrote: »

So instead of enjoying the game as we want we have to follow a certain playstyle to get further with leveling ?

I get that you have to research your gear and build and play the cookiecutter builds for raiding and hardcore grouping but for simple leveling ? Thats just wrong.

Listen to your own argument. You are saying you want a game that requires no thought to level. One that you can just throw any combination of abilities together then faceroll the quests. No, that is the one thing this game should never do, scale the difficulty to the least skilled or laziest players in the game because those are the only ones complaining about difficulty. If ZoS dumb this game down any more they will lose the silent majority.

Gedalya

I actually found the initial campaign to be well balanced once I got over an initial imbalance with my character; the problem initially was that I had skipped the starter island. I'm now in a VR1 zone and I'm getting used to the increase in difficulty but its not an issue. In fact the only issue is the occasional bug.

Ley

I don't know how many of you Played Diablo 3, when it first came out. Inferno difficulty was incredibly hard. People complained and they nerfed the difficulty. In fact they continued to nerf the difficulty more and more until people started complaining that it was too easy. Then they introduced Monster Power to bring back difficulty. People started complaining that they couldn't play on the hardest Monster Power, so they nerfed that too.

They found a solution for the casual player, MP, but the casual player wanted to play the same content as the hardcore MMOers, without the effort or restrictions to certain builds. I didn't play the expansion but when I stopped playing Diablo, it was a face-roll everything with min/max cookie-cutter builds kinda game.

You could easily play on an easier setting, enjoy everything the game had to offer and do it with whatever build/play-style you desired, but people wanted to play the hardest. There will never be a setting that will make everyone happy.

I think the difficulty is refreshing. As long as you maintain an appropriate level for your area, keep your gear up to date and play at least a little smart, you should be fine.

I haven't looked up any builds and I change the skills I use almost every day that I play. Admittedly I can't goof around, when encountering anything more than 1 enemy or I'll risk dying but I like it. The feel of relief, when another player happens by, after I've died 3 times trying to complete a dungeon, is great. Knowing that your character is not some sort of god who destroys everything in its path with the twitch of a finger, is refreshing.

There are a few encounters that seem disproportionately hard, compared to everything else around but then I remind myself that this is still a very new game and like every other game I've played, will undergo many changes before it establishes a baseline.

If you take anything from this, it is that even if they lowered the difficulty, eventually people would complain that they feel forced to play cookie-cutter builds to be competitive with the more determined MMOers. You can't have a game that caters seamlessly to the casual and hardcore MMOer when the casuals want everything the hardcore players get without compromising anything.

aleister

Alphashado wrote: »

ESO is like a lake park relying on admission fees from everyone. Yet when folks get their canoe to the water, there is a big sign that says. "Thanks for your contribution. Speed boats only!"

Perfect analogy.

Dayv

Robocles wrote: »

Reading this thread (and others) makes me wonder what the console sections of this forum will look like once this launches on them.

I imagine it'll be full of people saying how grateful they to pc gamers for putting up with loads of shiz so they don't have to. Or more realistically, lots of people saying that ZOS only care about Pc gamers.

steveb16_ESO46

Hilgara wrote: »

Listen to your own argument. You are saying you want a game that requires no thought to level.

No. That's the strawman you're constructing. It's also the Excluded Middle Fallacy.

He and others are quite clearly saying no such thing. The world is not black/white, either/or.

In the end this is purely a question of what will ensure the longevity of ESO as a quality premium sub game. It's not what you, I or anyone else wants. It's what the money men think gets them the biggest return on their investment.

Fortunately for you Zenimax believe there's a huge market for unreconstructed 2004-era hard-core grinding and maybe they're right and it actually is profitable to discard a portion of your customer base.

If they are not then it'll be FTP, with all that in the end implies for difficulty levels and solo content.

Me -I think it's better to provide a mix of balanced content for everyone. If the game effectively stops being fun for a segment of the player base at 50 then their money goes away.

no amount of cajoling or chest-beating is going to change the fact that a lot of people simply don't like what the game becomes after the faction story ends. You can no more argue with that than you can argue with their favourite colour.

The game is one thing to L50 and the becomes something altogether different.

nawlinzbilly

I think the AI is built rather well. When I come across a new monster, I try and do a solo attack so I can see how and what they can do. Then make my tactics for mobbs from that.

Hilgara

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

The game is one thing to L50 and the becomes something altogether different.

Yes it becomes challenging and just waving a bigger sword won't cut it. his is horizontal progression, something all MMO's need nowadays because the cower creep of WoW just doesn't work (see I can sprout gobbldy *** too)

if you're not prepared to put a little thought into your build then you probably aren't that invested in your character and won't be around for long anyway so no loss really.

steveb16_ESO46

Hilgara wrote: »

if you're not prepared to put a little thought into your build then you probably aren't that invested in your character and won't be around for long anyway so no loss really.

The Zenimax investors and their accountants would probably both disagree with that statement and require an explanation and an action plan if they think something is standing between them and their ROI.

fredarbonab14_ESO

Two (2) months into the game and because they are not maxed out yet, many here are complaining and predicting the craziest things and clamoring for the game to be made easier for the 'brothers' - the casuals. Two (2) months mind you. This is exactly the same clamoring you get from the ~PvP~ crowd in every game for the last 20 years. They want to be maxed out in a week.

Despite the facade, PvPers and casuals have very little in common, gaming wise. These are two very different types of humans. So spare some of us that been around the block, the con.

steveb16_ESO46

Well the die has been cast really. Zenimax has, for better or worse, nailed their colours to the hard-core group mast. Nothing anyone can say or do to change it.

Maybe they're right and maybe they're wrong.

Adramelach

It's really too bad they don't have a "difficulty" drop-down for the PvE content, like so many other games do, such as "Easy", "Normal", "Difficult", "Insane" etc. obviously altering the rewards and such to reward more difficult levels of play, but allowing the casuals and hard-cores to co-exist easier.

Sure, I know that rules would have to be created for when people group up, perhaps auto-downgrading the content to the easiest setting of any player in the group (and thus nerfing the rewards, etc.) Or perhaps it would only apply to the mandatory, solo quests that are plaguing so many more casual players just trying to get through the plot content.

This seems obvious to me... settings like that have been around for decades now.

Tannakaobi

I's say, it's not that it's too hard, it is more like too much is set to hard. As it stands 2/3 of the game is set to hard.

I think there should be 2 maps for hardcore game play, with repeatability, one for group play (Craglorn) and one for solo. All the factions should be more casual.

But that's just my opinion.

Dayv

fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »

Two (2) months into the game and because I they are not maxed out yet, many here are complaining and predicting the craziest things and clamoring for the game to be made easier for the 'brothers' - the casuals. Two (2) months mind you. This is exactly the same clamoring you get from the ~PvP~ crowd in every game for the last 20 years. They want to be maxed out in a week.

Despite the facade, PvPers and casuals have very little in common, gaming wise. These are two very different types of humans. So spare some of us that been around the block, the con.

None of that explains my dislike for the level of difficulty in VR. I don't mind slow progress, I just don't like frustrating progress.

Dayv

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Well the die has been cast really. Zenimax has, for better or worse, nailed their colours to the hard-core group mast. Nothing anyone can say or do to change it.

Maybe they're right and maybe they're wrong.

I don't think Zenimax have pinned their colors. They're sitting on the fence, thinking that talking about balancing without broaching the subject of future difficulty is the way to alienate the least amount of players.

steveb16_ESO46

So long as the VR difficulty levels gate access to any future content then they probably have. all they have said is vague stuff about 'preparing us to be better able to deal with VR' with items that will be more difficult to obtain but 'more rewarding'.

I'm hearing the sound of hammering but we'll see. But of course the problem is that by that time people will have moved on.

In LOTRO I was considered a 'hard core' player and i like raids and all that stuff. I appreciate a challenge but when the challenge becomes beating your head against a brick wall until it eventually crumbles it becomes an unenjoyable use of my limited game time.

steveb16_ESO46

Dayv wrote: »

None of that explains my dislike for the level of difficulty in VR. I don't mind slow progress, I just don't like frustrating progress.

Quite.

aleister

Hilgara wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

The game is one thing to L50 and the becomes something altogether different.

Yes it becomes challenging and just waving a bigger sword won't cut it. his is horizontal progression, something all MMO's need nowadays because the cower creep of WoW just doesn't work (see I can sprout gobbldy *** too)

if you're not prepared to put a little thought into your build then you probably aren't that invested in your character and won't be around for long anyway so no loss really.

Horizontal? What?

It's twelve more hell levels to grind through. This is not horizontal progression at all. It's just more level grinding using recycled content with the difficulty slider mindlessly maxed to 11 to insure that it takes you a good long time.

hamon

Hilgara wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

The game is one thing to L50 and the becomes something altogether different.

Yes it becomes challenging and just waving a bigger sword won't cut it. his is horizontal progression, something all MMO's need nowadays because the cower creep of WoW just doesn't work (see I can sprout gobbldy *** too)

if you're not prepared to put a little thought into your build then you probably aren't that invested in your character and won't be around for long anyway so no loss really.

yes you can spout (not sprout) gobledy ***. the problem is your gobledy *** is wrong. its not horizontal progression its vertical as in you are still levelling up , regardless to whether they re-name it vet 1,2,3 etc.. or just keep it going 51.52.53

so its not end game horizontal progression which nobody minds being hard as hell and slow. cos its optional and horizontal. like extra options or morphs for example.

so 2 thirds of the entire content of the game being rehashed as veteran with the fake difficulty of simply beefing up HP and damage of every mob you face, is frustrating and forces the homogenization of play options down into cookie cutter molds. (light armour and staffs anyone?)

If you equate that to horizontal progression you need to go read up on what that term means.

Paladin_echo1

Its fun, and medium to hard difficulty form level 1-level 50. I like that part. At V1, you will run from a mudcrab if you aren't careful or die to a mudcrab. Veteran mobs just kill things. I never thought a mudcrab alone could do so much damage. So I hit one mudcrab and it turns into two, and my character wipes. Veteran mobs will beat you with ease.

purple-magicb16_ESO

The game should be challenging but not impossible. Take the challenge out of the and you'll definitely lose your players. If it were up to me I'd remove things like quest map markers and quest 'arrow' guides, forcing players to be more dilligent with being aware of where they are and where they need to go. This would totally eliminate the frantic quest arrow chasing that often goes on. I don't care for it. Of course, I would then have to award more experience for completing quests seeing as how people would be completing quests much slower. Also, I am not opposed to really powerful enemy bosses but they should have weaknesses that players can exploit, but perhaps need to research a bit tofind. I am not a fan of having to "hulk-out" in order to power through an enemy boss.