It takes only 30 min to invite random newbs into a new guild to get access to 500 slots. I enjoy the game much more with a large inv. most news also don't know how to leave the guild ;-)

Allyah wrote: »

kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »

I just fail to see how we are supposed to play "how we like" and be limited to crafting just one craft on one character.

You're not limited to just one craft per character. But, when you try to pick up everything and level everything at the same time, you're going to run into lots of inventory issues.

Start with provisioning. Level that skill up quickly at low levels. Once you've reached 50, which shouldn't take very long, stop picking up ingredients you don't need. Keep track of which items you need for your current food and only worry about keeping those. Maybe learn the rare ones and save those too, even if just to sell them later.

Alchemy does take longer than provisioning, but once you've learned the traits of each reagent, you don't need to pickup and keep them all anymore. You can figure out which 3 you need for your potions and then collect only those.

Enchanting is a tough one, but only if you're like me and want to keep a collection of runes in storage for a rainy day. If I had issues with space I would simply turn every runes I get into a glyph on an alt, or trade glyphs with another person. If the goal is to get level 50 enchanting, and not to collect runes, there shouldn't be much issue with inventory space.

For wood, cloth, and metal working it's really simple, just deconstruct everything and sell most of it to either players or vendor it. It's worth keeping a stack of the trait stones in your bank, racial material too, but that can also be bought from NPCs, so not needed. Obviously keep the upgrade material, but that's only about 9 slots.

What does that even leave? Some trophies, rare stuff like kuta runes, pets, soul gems, maybe some unique weapons.

There isn't all that much you actually need to keep in order to level up your crafting skills. I find it's just the urge to keep everything that makes inventory unmanageable. If someone wants to become a master craftsman in every skill, the inventory space is going to suck, but if you level them up gradually over time, without saving every material associated with every craft, you'll do fine. It's not like Jute is ever going out of season, it'll still be growing there if you ever need it.

[...]I gave up alchemy because it was too much. I am doing cloth/leather, provisioning and enchanting. I am probably going to have to give up enchanting if it keeps on like it is.

[...]

I say limit the account to 2 crafts, let you pay gold to gain more (alot of gold) or to switch out, give crafting its own shared bank tabs, make added bank tabs continue to cost alot of gold and limit the amount of space per purchase and keep them shared.

This would give the room needed for all these things those of us that have said we have trouble, it keeps crafting limited which is obviously what they want, doesn't make the banks huge and still makes players work (ie gain he gold) to buy the added spots or they can even be tied to levels.[...]

I'm curious why alchemy is the one you decided to get rid of for space. That is one of the easiest to deal with inventory-wise. Keep one stack of water for the highest level you can craft and use the alchemy ingredients as you get them. Sell whichever potions you don't use. If you need inventory space, the first thing that should go is enchanting materials. That **** is brutal on space.

As for your suggestions towards inventory and crafting, they are good suggestions but they really just trade out one type of inconvenience for another. Instead of being able to choose whatever you want to work on at any given time, you would be forced to wait levels or spend money to gain the ability to craft. If people are going to be inconvenienced either way, it would really just be better to play the game as they already made it.

As crafting materials is probably the bulk of most people's banks, I'm not sure adding a whole other tab just for crafting materials is really viable for limiting crafting. And if those tabs need to be bought anyway, it is basically the same as just buying more bank space (which we already can).

I gave up alchemy because my highest level character was the crafter and I wanted to make potions to be a useful thing in the game...and make them for all my characters to use (I don't want to craft to sell or whatever, I want to use it) and as each character is lower than the other then I had to keep a large range of materials to craft for all of them. If I was only doing alchemy for the one character it would most likely be fine. The same goes for the cooking...to be useful to all my characters it involves keeping a range of things.

And I understand what you mean about trading one inconvenience for another. It is 1) more of just admitting that you can not, always, play like you want and 2) the crafting items in its own tab (even when limited to the number of crafts you can do) would open up space so you wouldn't have to worry about the costumes you wish to keep or trophies or the armor you are going to break down or give to another leveling character.

If they limit of how many crafts you can do then it means they get the result they want to begin, limiting the crafting. When they use the inventory system to limit the number of crafts you can do it can and sometimes does, limit your playstyle much more because inventory issues can bleed over to other aspects of the game, not just the limit of crafting. This limiting factor can be solved by some folks in different ways but just as many the current system will be problematic in my opinion.

Thanks for a nice post and questions BTW. I appreciate it.

A comment I keep seeing in defence of the current system is: "you can't level all professions at the same time". I don't know about everyone else but I'm definitely not trying to level all professions at the same time - I'm actually trying to level my characters before levelling my crafts. What I AM doing though is levelling my characters on a more or less concurrent basis because I'm not quite sure which toon I'm going to main and I want to see how they all play. All my professions are essentially levelling purely via deconstructing items I find, I'm not actually using the mats I find to levle them. I try to use up raw materials I gather (ores, cloths, etc) when I run short of inventory space by making items that I then send to an alt to decon but even if you make 100 items the alt isn't going to level up its crafting skill that much from deconning those items.

The reason I like keeping things I find (especially provisioning and enchanting mats) is because it can be a huge annoyance to have to re-find mats you had, but couldn't use because you didn't have the time or skill points on alts to level those particular crafts, and so had to sell/vendor the items. Things like salt, canis root, pepper...they're not exactly easy to find. Going back and re-farming items you had but had to dispose of because you had no space is very tedious and boring and not fun.

End of day this system is just not designed to cater for the inventory requirements of multiple alts being levelled at the same time that find materials as they level up. It works fine if you are levelling one character and have 7 alts to act as storage. But not when you have 4 active characters whose bag space cannot be used for storage.

As I mentioned before you have a shared bank with 60 slots. If you had one character you were levelling, you basically have 60 bag slots + 60 bank slots = 120 slots, plus 420 bag slots from those alts for a total of 560 slots. Once you decide you want to level a nightblade along with your sorcerer for variety and to experience that class, your available bag space shrinks to 280 slots per character. If you decide to level a third alt at the same time then your available inventory further drops to 140 slots per character. If you have four, which allows you to experience all classes around the same time, you will have 105 slots per character. Assuming you use four bank mules to store inventory along with the bank, which is the workaround. If you choose to not use that workaround (I can't imagine it was intended design to use character slots for bank mules) you really have your 60 bank slots divided by 4 which is 15 slots per active character.

I'm convinced they didn't intend for players to level multiple characters at the same time. Why would players want to do this? I would suggest because a) they want to check out the different classes ESO has to offer; and b) they haven't figured out their main character yet and want to do so before they level their sorcerer to 50 then realise they wanted to play a dragonknight instead.

Guild Wars 1/2 did a great job of fixing the bank space issue. They made crafting ingredients stack to a certain amount and have their own storage tab in the bank with one slot for each ingredient which held one full stack.

Once that was full, you could still store them as stacks in the normal bank slots too, but that was at your own choice.

I think the stacks for those in GW1 were 250 or something like that instead of the 100 we have here though.

I have to admit, however, that if I had the ability to store up to one full stack of any crafting ingredient before that began to impede on my normal bank space, I wouldn't have purchased any bank expansions yet most likely.

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

End of day this system is just not designed to cater for the inventory requirements of multiple alts being levelled at the same time that find materials as they level up. It works fine if you are levelling one character and have 7 alts to act as storage. But not when you have 4 active characters whose bag space cannot be used for storage.

As I mentioned before you have a shared bank with 60 slots. If you had one character you were levelling, you basically have 60 bag slots + 60 bank slots = 120 slots, plus 420 bag slots from those alts for a total of 560 slots. Once you decide you want to level a nightblade along with your sorcerer for variety and to experience that class, your available bag space shrinks to 280 slots per character. If you decide to level a third alt at the same time then your available inventory further drops to 140 slots per character. If you have four, which allows you to experience all classes around the same time, you will have 105 slots per character. Assuming you use four bank mules to store inventory along with the bank, which is the workaround. If you choose to not use that workaround (I can't imagine it was intended design to use character slots for bank mules) you really have your 60 bank slots divided by 4 which is 15 slots per active character.

I'm convinced they didn't intend for players to level multiple characters at the same time. Why would players want to do this? I would suggest because a) they want to check out the different classes ESO has to offer; and b) they haven't figured out their main character yet and want to do so before they level their sorcerer to 50 then realise they wanted to play a dragonknight instead.

I am levelling 7 characters at once and find it works fine for me, even though 6 of them are crafters.

your inventory becomes more than managable with just these :

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info245-AdvancedFilters.html

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info362-Banker.html

when i have a full inventory (130 slots), it takes me 2-3 mins to clear everything up.

kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »

I just fail to see how we are supposed to play "how we like" and be limited to crafting just one craft on one character.

You're not limited to just one craft per character. But, when you try to pick up everything and level everything at the same time, you're going to run into lots of inventory issues.

Start with provisioning. Level that skill up quickly at low levels. Once you've reached 50, which shouldn't take very long, stop picking up ingredients you don't need. Keep track of which items you need for your current food and only worry about keeping those. Maybe learn the rare ones and save those too, even if just to sell them later.

Alchemy does take longer than provisioning, but once you've learned the traits of each reagent, you don't need to pickup and keep them all anymore. You can figure out which 3 you need for your potions and then collect only those.

Enchanting is a tough one, but only if you're like me and want to keep a collection of runes in storage for a rainy day. If I had issues with space I would simply turn every runes I get into a glyph on an alt, or trade glyphs with another person. If the goal is to get level 50 enchanting, and not to collect runes, there shouldn't be much issue with inventory space.

For wood, cloth, and metal working it's really simple, just deconstruct everything and sell most of it to either players or vendor it. It's worth keeping a stack of the trait stones in your bank, racial material too, but that can also be bought from NPCs, so not needed. Obviously keep the upgrade material, but that's only about 9 slots.

What does that even leave? Some trophies, rare stuff like kuta runes, pets, soul gems, maybe some unique weapons.

There isn't all that much you actually need to keep in order to level up your crafting skills. I find it's just the urge to keep everything that makes inventory unmanageable. If someone wants to become a master craftsman in every skill, the inventory space is going to suck, but if you level them up gradually over time, without saving every material associated with every craft, you'll do fine. It's not like Jute is ever going out of season, it'll still be growing there if you ever need it.

[...]I gave up alchemy because it was too much. I am doing cloth/leather, provisioning and enchanting. I am probably going to have to give up enchanting if it keeps on like it is.

[...]

I say limit the account to 2 crafts, let you pay gold to gain more (alot of gold) or to switch out, give crafting its own shared bank tabs, make added bank tabs continue to cost alot of gold and limit the amount of space per purchase and keep them shared.

This would give the room needed for all these things those of us that have said we have trouble, it keeps crafting limited which is obviously what they want, doesn't make the banks huge and still makes players work (ie gain he gold) to buy the added spots or they can even be tied to levels.[...]

I'm curious why alchemy is the one you decided to get rid of for space. That is one of the easiest to deal with inventory-wise. Keep one stack of water for the highest level you can craft and use the alchemy ingredients as you get them. Sell whichever potions you don't use. If you need inventory space, the first thing that should go is enchanting materials. That **** is brutal on space.

As for your suggestions towards inventory and crafting, they are good suggestions but they really just trade out one type of inconvenience for another. Instead of being able to choose whatever you want to work on at any given time, you would be forced to wait levels or spend money to gain the ability to craft. If people are going to be inconvenienced either way, it would really just be better to play the game as they already made it.

As crafting materials is probably the bulk of most people's banks, I'm not sure adding a whole other tab just for crafting materials is really viable for limiting crafting. And if those tabs need to be bought anyway, it is basically the same as just buying more bank space (which we already can).

I gave up alchemy because my highest level character was the crafter and I wanted to make potions to be a useful thing in the game...and make them for all my characters to use (I don't want to craft to sell or whatever, I want to use it) and as each character is lower than the other then I had to keep a large range of materials to craft for all of them. If I was only doing alchemy for the one character it would most likely be fine. The same goes for the cooking...to be useful to all my characters it involves keeping a range of things.

And I understand what you mean about trading one inconvenience for another. It is 1) more of just admitting that you can not, always, play like you want and 2) the crafting items in its own tab (even when limited to the number of crafts you can do) would open up space so you wouldn't have to worry about the costumes you wish to keep or trophies or the armor you are going to break down or give to another leveling character.

If they limit of how many crafts you can do then it means they get the result they want to begin, limiting the crafting. When they use the inventory system to limit the number of crafts you can do it can and sometimes does, limit your playstyle much more because inventory issues can bleed over to other aspects of the game, not just the limit of crafting. This limiting factor can be solved by some folks in different ways but just as many the current system will be problematic in my opinion.

Thanks for a nice post and questions BTW. I appreciate it.

Finally! I've been wishing someone would actually give me a valid example of why the inventory is limited. I would still say this is intentionally limited but I can certainly see why it might be frustrating to someone who wants to use only one character to craft for all of their characters. In that sense, I could agree that there is room for improvement.

Unfortunately all the solutions that I can think of that might work with the current balancing doesn't really work with the current system and vise versa. Maybe they will come up with something soon that will keep both the current system and balancing in place and still manage to appease the people who feel inventory is too limited ATM. Then again, people usually don't say that you can have your cake and eat it to. I'll just hope that we can.

I think I could live with a crafting tab if it was limited to one stack per material. Otherwise it becomes way too easy to hoard things. However, I'd still say it makes more sense for them to have a trophy/costume tab. Sort of like having a closet or a trophy room.

I'll agree with your last paragraph but I still don't feel like your original suggestion for solving this limitation is the answer. Then again, it all depends on how they decide to change other things in the game. MMO's are ever changing and keeping a good balance is always an issue. I feel like most of the conversations on forums matter very little. Not because the suggestions aren't good or won't work but because their status as good or bad is dependent on the game as a whole and not just on one aspect of it.

Thank you for remaining polite. ^^ I know this post didn't really go anywhere but I'm a big believer of suggesting things but not believing that it is the only way it could work. I also believe that all final decisions of game designers should focus on the good of the game and not the pressure to keep a large customer base. (Not to say they shouldn't listen to their customers and take issue into account.) Again, if your point is that inventory is limited and could use improvement, you have convinced me.

Blackwidow wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

It's (Blackwidow) a troll. I refuse to believe anyone is intentionally this off topic and illogical on accident.

Blackwidow wrote:

Are you calling me a Troll?

Allyah wrote: »

Don't take it as a personal attack.

Why would I do that? I'm sure you would not take it as a personal attack if I called you a A-hole for saying it, so I'm sure we are all good.

I really just don't understand how you form your responses.

Well, by all means call me a troll instead of asking me a question.

They certainly don't follow any pattern of logic or communication that I'm used to.

That I can believe.

Could be you, could be me.

You are half right.

I don't know why mods let people like you and Badmojo constantly make personal attacks and never remove your posts.

Well, that is not really true, they have a dog in this fight. You are fighting to blinding defend them.

I'm sure this post defending myself will get removed, while your attack stays up.

I don't ask you questions because I already know the answer I get back will make no sense. It's the same reason I never actually get into disagreements with you. I was trying to be nice with my response by not explaining to you what you do wrong with your arguments but since you seem so offended already I might as well let you know why I said what I said.

Based off all the responses I have seen you make:

You constantly make personal attacks on people because they don't agree with you. Your arguments are unstructured and illogical. You don't communicate effectively. You twist words to what you want them to mean. You make huge assumptions. Your immovable in your thoughts. All of these are huge problems that indicate you are either here to shove your beliefs down peoples throats about certain subjects or that you are here to mess with people.

Oh, and several of my posts have already been edited by moderators because of personal attacks. Your point has been proven wrong. Again.

Allyah wrote: »

You constantly make personal attacks on people because they don't agree with you.

No, I don't.

Your arguments are unstructured and illogical.

Just because you can't understand something does not mean it's illogical.

You don't communicate effectively.

I pretty sure I explain myself quite clearly.

You twist words to what you want them to mean.

No, I just respond to what is said as I perceive them, just like anyone else does. If I get something wrong, feel free to correct me, just don't backpeddle and lie and we will get along just fine.

You make huge assumptions.

Like?

Your immovable in your thoughts.

If you can't prove something to change my mind then yes, however if you can use logic to sway me, I'm open minded.

All of these are huge problems that indicate you are either here to shove your beliefs down peoples throats about certain subjects or that you are here to mess with people.

Or I just disagree and you can't stand the fact that I have a different opinion than yours.

Oh, and several of my posts have already been edited by moderators because of personal attacks.

And you call me the troll.

Your point has been proven wrong. Again.

Yep, my bad, you do have a lot of insults removed.

Yet, you tell me you are tired of me personally attacking others?

Go figure.

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I think these aren't so much as workarounds, but rather game design decisions that ZOS consciously made when they designed the inventory system.

So they consciously designed the game to be a pain in the ass instead of entertainment. Got it. Brilliant design choice.

Thank you.

A lot of people are attacking this guy for no reason. I can tell you that I am a level 28 Blacksmither and am at level 50 Provisioning and I have a very hard time managing my inventory. I spend a lot of time managing it because I need all the ores/ingot, a very little bit of armor/weapon i have made by special crafting or that I am saving for research. None of this takes into account all of the food/drink ingredients I have to procure and save for my ingredients. Not only do I like leveling my character (VR2) but I have many people who hit me up for food/drink and specially crafted armor, this is how I make money for my mats. Its not a huge cash grab but i enjoy doing it. I, also, do alchemy. So between the food ingredients, the BS mats, and the Alchemy Mats i have little to no room for anything. I have 100 bank and 100 personal slots for storage and I tire of going between mules to swap things around. It takes a large amount of my time to do this and it's not needed. I don't trust Guild banks for my mats because I'm in 5 trading guilds and I don't know who has access to those.

This guy was merely trying to express a problem that many people have had. If you don't agree with him, fine, but you have no right to attack him or the way he manages his inventory. We are a family against Molag Bal, lets act like it!

Allyah wrote: »

Lodestar wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »

"Inventory is unmanageable" - for the pack rat; keep less. Simple.

Read the actual thread, not just the title.

@Allyah‌, the post in question did not address or have anything to do with you, nor was it inflammatory.

He had no intentions of reading the thread. He is one of the less committed dissenters, who charge in, grunt once or twice to make a blanket statement, with derogatory tone, and move on.

Had a few here, and about 3 or so committed objectors, who just repeat the same things over again, with same put downs. None of which are worth getting wound up over or engaging. Tempting though it can be I do accept.

I did read the thread and even responded to it.

Moderator edit: edited for personal attacks.

This comment got an insightful? Odd. He replied to this when I was not even speaking to him, and was referring to another poster. That is insight?

Besides, I already said there were people I was not speaking to anymore as looking at their inflammatory posts, and cyclic arguments, and even advised others (@Blackwidow for on) not engage in that, as they were not here for a discussion. In that regard, I advise you not waste your time speaking to me as I will not respond further.

And thank you @Thorwil. Much appreciated. I wonder if you also feel, a simple patch in the near future, to make trophies and pets no take up actual bank and bag space, would be a great token gesture. Even better if urn containers and maps were included

PS I wonder if the detractors in the thread dare flame or insult you, claiming your point is illogical.

@Lodestar My bad. You did warn me and I got sucked in anyway.

Chrysolis wrote: »

I don't think every player should be required to utilize a guild bank to manage their own items - that's not what a guild bank is made for. I'm not walking around with a full inventory, but in order to maintain some semblance of order I am unable to have any alts really as they are all packed with crafting materials or research items.

Not sure if anyone else said this, but have your army of mules research the pile of stuff you have waiting around. When your main needs it, have them make it and put it in the bank. Just keep track somewhere who knows what until you are done with your main.

Was able to eliminate a 3 bag slot upgraded mule this way.

skyslim wrote: »

The only problem I have with the banking system is it's inability to properly stack items. I have several items in my account that are not stacked as they should be. For instance, my Edora Rune Stones. Instead of having a stack of 22 stones, I have a stack of 6, a stack of 12, and a stack of4. Now I'm using three bank slots for these stones when I should only have one. We should at least have the ability to stack these items ourselves. I have 14 wasted bank slots because the game is not stacking items as it should.

That has to do with the duping bug. Until ZOS can find a way to fix this, you will not see auto stacking.