Inventory is unmanageable

Blackwidow · June 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

Or make wiser choices about the items you keep instead of just hoarding absolutely everything. How many stacks of Jute do you really need?

Are you implying more bank space would upset you?

Really?

Laerania_ESO · June 2014

Epona222 wrote: »

Yajnho wrote: »

I can't fathom why anyone would object to this solution. It hurts no one, and really helps out the vast majority of players.

I completely agree with your post. Unfortunately there are a few players though who seem to think 'la la la everything is OK' and act as though they would be personally damaged in some way by you or I being able to store a few more provisioning mats. It's mind-boggling really.

Some people can't just grow up and admit that they are extremely wrong. They are more interested in winning a forum battle than benefit the game they play.

@Chrysolis Awesome post I agree with all you said. If there is something to add, it is about those items that can't be gotten again and people is reluctant to delete them. To solve that, those items should be bound to account.

/edit: Explanation: when you leave the door open to get those items again on another char, people should tend to delete those items that are not using. Also being BoA, give the chance to store them on other characters.

DeLindsay · June 2014

timedilation wrote: »

The OP is awesome.

Collectively, I've spent an ENORMOUS portion of my time simply managing inventory. All 7 of my ALTS are mules as well!

In other MMOs I've played, a comfortable 300-500 bank slots were available to use. In ESO, the amount of bank slots we start with is simply RIDICULOUS. The cost to expand bank slots to a decent size is RIDICULOUS. And the stack size limit of 100 is RIDICULOUS.

Sorry, but it's almost as if the person in charge thought- "what's the best way to make the player spend less time actually PLAYING the game?"

Please do something about this ZOS!

I don't know of many (if any) MMO's where the default stack size is anything higher than 100. In FACT, WoW, Rift and many others the stack size on a WIDE variety of items is between 10-20, some identical items don't stack at all.

You do not START with 300-500 bank slots in most (any) MMO's, save Eve Online where it's kind of unlimited, but at a cost. You START with usually 1 or 2 bank tabs each with 40-60 or so inventory slots. You then have to purchase (at a pretty steep cost) additional tabs. If you want an alt to have an item, you have to mail it to the alt because that alt does not have access to the bank of your main, etc. Bank tab expansion also comes with a maximum of usually 4-5 tabs, unless you spend real money to purchase additional tabs. At 5 tabs of 60 each you're talking 300 bank slots, not much more than ESO.

Lets talk about personal space. In WoW you start with ONE bag that's what, 16 spaces? Same with Rift, same with most MMO's. You then upgrade the bag size and add further bags (with a usual 5-7 max bags) until you cannot add any more space. In Rift for example (FAR more personal space than WoW) you can have a maximum of roughly 180 personal inventory slots without spending tremendous amount of in game currency for unique gigantic bags, or out of game actual cash for 2 more bag slots and also access to unique gigantic bags. NOBODY starts with this much personal inventory space, it must be purchased over time.

On top of all of this, WoW, Rift, and others didn't launch with all those available for purchase inventory slots they were added over the coarse of YEARS. Rift as an example had a maximum from launch of 104 personal inventory spaces, and that was only if you purchased the CE. WoW at launch had even less than that.

babylon · June 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

I don't know of many (if any) MMO's where the default stack size is anything higher than 100.

GW2 stack size is 250, also they have a separate crafting mats tab in the bank and you can send mats to your bank while anywhere out in the field.

GrafDresche · June 2014

I would like to have an inventory system comparable to that of Guild Wars 2 - including the separate category slots for the bank. I do not see any (lore) reason for not having that. If it is a copyright issue, I am sure there are ways to alter it in a way that this should not pose a problem.

Please change it!

This is especially annoying since the inventory system of ALL Elder Scrolls Games were the first things almost any reviewer criticized and one of the first things taken care of by modders. Please do not be so - no offense - stubborn!!

Blackwidow · June 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

You do not START with 300-500 bank slots in most (any) MMO's,

WoW and EQ you start with 30-40 bank space. I can't remember which, plus a share bank between all of your characters.

So if you had 10 characters, which a lot of players do, you would have 400ish bank space. Also, the upgeades to the other MMOs give you a whole other page of bank space. In ESO you start with 60 to share with all your alts.

That is the difference between ESO and most other P2P MMOs.

In ESO, if you have one character, you are sitting pretty. More space than almost any other MMO.

However, if you play even one alt in ESO, you have less bank space than most other MMOs. Play two alts, 3, 4 and you really see a issue.

Then the upgrade for ESO is also the worst in any P2P game as well.

Cogo · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

You do not START with 300-500 bank slots in most (any) MMO's,

WoW and EQ you start with 30-40 bank space. I can't remember which, plus a share bank between all of your characters.

So if you had 10 characters, which a lot of players do, you would have 400ish bank space. Also, the upgeades to the other MMOs give you a whole other page of bank space. In ESO you start with 60 to share with all your alts.

That is the difference between ESO and most other P2P MMOs.

In ESO, if you have one character, you are sitting pretty. More space than almost any other MMO.

However, if you play even one alt in ESO, you have less bank space than most other MMOs. Play two alts, 3, 4 and you really see a issue.

Then the upgrade for ESO is also the worst in any P2P game as well.

I disagree. The personal bank system in ESO is fantastic. It makers you choose what to spend your gold on. Upgrades for bank, or not?

Howcome no one is complaining that not matter where in the world you are, you can use mats when tradeskills THAT IS IN YOUR BANK? So you dont need to carry those as well?

The bank system is one of many that makes ESO NOT like other MMOs.

I understand that the kind of player who wants it all, wants it now and screams mamma if they dont get it....dont really like ESO, because what you do, is up to you. All the choices are your, but you cant have it all, you have to pick.

I love it!

Blackwidow · June 2014

Cogo wrote: »

I disagree. The personal bank system in ESO is fantastic. It makers you choose what to spend your gold on. Upgrades for bank, or not?

So, the upside to having a tiny bank space and making almost everyone use mules, is we get to choose where to spend gold?

Wouldn't we have that choice anyway?

How come no one is complaining that not matter where in the world you are, you can use mats when tradeskills THAT IS IN YOUR BANK? So you don't need to carry those as well?

Because that is a good feature.

BTW, this is not about the bag system. It's about the bank system.

The bank system is one of many that makes ESO NOT like other MMOs.

Change is not always good. Change just for the sake of change is not a good thing.

If the change was in the right direction, I'd be all for it.

I understand that the kind of player who wants it all, wants it now and screams mamma if they dont get it....dont really like ESO, because what you do, is up to you.

Thanks for not being insulting.

jeradlub17_ESO · June 2014

We have been telling them since beta and the only response we ever got was an increase to the initial backpack size nothing to the bank itself. I would like to see them use a traditional bank system similar to eq2 and other mmorgs which all have far greater space availability.

Lodestar · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

You do not START with 300-500 bank slots in most (any) MMO's,

WoW and EQ you start with 30-40 bank space. I can't remember which, plus a share bank between all of your characters.

So if you had 10 characters, which a lot of players do, you would have 400ish bank space. Also, the upgeades to the other MMOs give you a whole other page of bank space. In ESO you start with 60 to share with all your alts.

That is the difference between ESO and most other P2P MMOs.

In ESO, if you have one character, you are sitting pretty. More space than almost any other MMO.

However, if you play even one alt in ESO, you have less bank space than most other MMOs. Play two alts, 3, 4 and you really see a issue.

Then the upgrade for ESO is also the worst in any P2P game as well.

Not only that, but again, this game is very... object heavy, compared to others. I would say it is rather like thinking buying something from a store here in the UK is cheaper, than the US, without considering other factors, such as currency.

AZRainman · June 2014

Good post!

Limited bank slots and ridiculous upgrade costs means all those trophy trinkets go in the trash, which lessens overall immersion and fun. Crafting is also less popular, because of it. Zenimax is killing their game popularity with too many gold sinks and limitations on storage.

fredarbonab14_ESO · June 2014

"Inventory is unmanageable" - for the pack rat; keep less. Simple.

babylon · June 2014

Lodestar wrote: »

Had a few here, and about 3 or so committed objectors, who just repeat the same things over again, with same put downs. None of which are worth getting wound up over or engaging. Tempting though it can be I do accept.

They're all copying Paul Sage (creative director of this game) with that one insult about hoarders -

I would say you are going to have to make some choices about what you keep and what you don't. Bank space / inventory space is another limiter to being able to work on all crafting skills at once. It isn't impossible, it is just harder if that is what you choose to do. There's also a TV show about your "problem."

link

Lodestar · June 2014

Chrysolis wrote: »

[snip]

Well, all I can say, is what I said earlier. If this is deliberate way of controlling players inventories, and crafts, by the developers, then it is still not forced to be a good idea.

I don't believe I am asking for anything that would make the game more or less difficult as a whole, or would affect many others.

Sometimes, people get passionate about ideas, and as I feel is happening here, crack on with hatching it, setting aside as much criticism, trying to buy time, to say "Hey now it is all in place, you can see what we had in mind after all. Now is time to give it chance".

Reality is not quite like that, in this situation. A game mass marketed, was clearly not going to tick every box we all had. But some ideas, just have to be bent on and reconciled. This being one of them.
[edited to remove quote]

Circuitous · June 2014

I can't call it unmanageable. For reference, here's my inventory process au courant (note: I focus on blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking/provisioning, and ignore alchemy/enchanting):

Do ESO stuff that steadily fills up my personal inventory. (Currently 90 slots, roughly 20 of which are reserved for potions, food, trinkets, disguises, soul gems, items I'm about to research, etc.)
Head to town.
Break down anything higher than white rarity for sweet, sweet tannins and whatever else pops out.
Sell the whites if they don't have an unlearned trait. Maybe sell some set items if I find a buyer. Not worth leaving them sit around for a few hundred gold imo.
Head to the bank. (Currently 100 slots.)
Dump into the bank: all trait items (Sardonyx, etc.), all provisioning ingredients I use for blue recipes of my current tier (as well as spices and vet tier ingredients), all raw materials (raw/rough/ore), refined materials, and any other relevant crafting material. Only one stack of any given item.
Dump into the guild bank: all glyphs I can't immediately use, runes, recipes, motifs, reagents, and any leftover ingredients or materials. I fully expect I may never see these again. That's fine, I don't need them.

My personal bank is usually around 90-95 slots used, and by the time I get to 100, I'm ready for the next tier of provisioning materials and just swap them all out for the new stuff. I don't have any mules, and all of the backpack and bank upgrades were bought on a single character (who also managed to afford a Light Horse, probably worth pointing out).

The guild bank is that of a relatively small (50 members) guild that I run. Bank access is granted to all but the lowest tier (which is about 5 people), so it's not like I'm hoarding all 500 slots for myself.

That said, if you're trying to do alchemy/enchanting on top of about two other crafting skills, I can easily see where inventory space would become an issue. Even JUST enchanting would be a huge burden for any character. I'd love to see some way of making these and other professions more manageable for people. (Maybe buying a [Provisioning Box] instead of a backpack upgrade?) I don't know if attacking the entire system is a good strategy, though.

Cogo · June 2014

I think some of you simply are spoiled.

I only play one char. I keep mats for provision, blacksmithing, enchanting, alchemy and other things I find valueble in my bank.

My inventory is 139 and my bank is 120. I am in no way a "grinder" of any sort. I just save all my gold that I get to bank and inventory upgrades.

Also the guildbank works great. Since its open to all members and we got rules how to use it and switch tradeskill items.

We have no problems.

Sure, more space is never wrong. Its just that one of the main things that makes ESO so great is just this feature....you choose.

And add to that, I spend time every day "fixing" the guild bank because of the grouping issue. SURE, I love this to get fixed, but I accept it because of the abuse it stops. And, anyone who can read the future incoming features, can see that banking is in it.

This thread is huuuuuugee. I wonder if some people would spend more time figuring out how to play ESO as it made, then complain about it, you would have gotten more done, and maybe not have these problems. :-)

Blackwidow · June 2014

Cogo wrote: »

I only play one char.

nuff said.

ozgod22_eso · June 2014

Orizuru wrote: »

slbrgt wrote: »

I dont know if it has been mentioned already, but a really mayor improvement in inventory management would be: being able to mail items directly to alt chars, as is usual in other games I know. This would remove the currently necessary steps to store items in bank, log out, log in with another char, and remove items from bank. Making use of mules, or just getting acquired mats to crafter characters, would then no longer be limited by bank space and the whole process would become much more direct and so much less time consuming.

I suspect they did this, as well as making the bank account wide, in an effort to try and discourage muling with alts.

Based-upon the design decisions ZOS has made, I can't help but feel they have a strong dislike for the concept of muling in general.

That's really funny because this game has brought back muling in a big way. This is the first MMO I've played since 2008 where I needed to take up character slots with bank mules.

The reason I'm muling is not even to level multiple crafts simultaneously - the sheer pace of levelling crafts (even when doing the make/decon swap among alts) is a natural deterrent to levelling all crafts right away anyway. It's mainly so that I don't have to re-find items that I already found, that I would like to keep for the future when I eventually do start levelling other crafts. "But no! Engaging in decision-making about what is valuable and what is not is fun and part of good gameplay!" Sorry no it isn't. It's tedious and boring, and we only do it because to regather mats we already found (esp. provisioning mats) is even more tedious and boring.

What this game discourages IMO is levelling multiple alts simultaneously. If you look at it this way:

1 character = 70 bank slots / 70 slots per character
2 characters = 70 bank slots /35 slots per character
3 characters = 70 bank slots /23 slots per character
.
.
8 characters = 70 bank slots / 8 slots per character

Since each character has 60 bag slots to begin with, the first character you make will have 130 slots, the second will have 95 slots, down to the last which will have 68 slots.

They should have given us incremental increases on the bank space per number of characters. The current situation penalises you the more playable characters you have. Maybe the concept of playing multiple alts wasn't something they immediately thought of.

As for the people who said "But no! Not being able to keep everything is part of immersion! Remember Skyrim and Oblivion even had weight limits!". Skyrim and Oblivion, those two bastions of immersion, also had infinite storage chests.

badmojo · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

I only play one char.

nuff said.

How many characters do you actually play? You keep going on and on about having to have so many mule characters, I can't believe you actually play more than one or two.

Why would Cogo making it work with only 1 character be 'nuff said'? Your whole basis for this being a big problem is that everyone has to have mules to make it work. Cogo here is saying he doesn't even have another character, let alone using them as mules.

But go ahead, stick your head in the sand.

Noctisse · June 2014

I find it hard to believe that this issue brought up so much controversy...
Are people seriously capable of dealing with the current system or are some just being the devil's advocate?

ozgod22_eso · June 2014

Noctisse wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that this issue brought up so much controversy...
Are people seriously capable of dealing with the current system or are some just being the devil's advocate?

We're all dealing with the current system for the most part I think. I am. I've worked around the limitations by getting back into muling, and by selling items in the guild store (shame you can only have 30 listings at a time) or just vendoring them by process of elimination when push comes to shove.

People tend to find workarounds for these limitations and muling was around for years until MMOs started adjusting inventory space. Maybe they intended for us to just level one toon and focus on that like a single player game like Skyrim, rather than levelling multiple toons for variety. But I like levelling multiple toons because I like learning all the different abilities, especially for when I pvp, so I know what I am up against. It also helps me decide which toon I want to main, as I experience the different classes. And if Zeni doesn't see my playstyle as ideal, then I have to find a workaround. And my workaround is muling, as is most other people on this thread.

So yes I am dealing with it. It's a pain in the @rse though and not much fun doing it. The only reason I am doing it is having to recollect mats I have already found for future toons whose crafting I want to level when the time comes is even less fun. That's what we're expressing.

kassandratheclericb14_ESO · June 2014

Except that for most MMO's alt leveling is a way to keep folks playing paying. OK yes, many of you can manage your inventory. Great. I just fail to see how we are supposed to play "how we like" and be limited to crafting just one craft on one character. I kinda like crafting and honestly if I only did one...on one character but still wanted to level alts my inventory would still be an issue.

I regularly pick up armors that I think my alts can use. So I shove them in the bank. I clean it out when they get to that level and use or choose not to use the armor/weapons/etc.

If all I did was alchemy and wanted to make these things for all my level characters there would still be a great deal in the bank. Then there are costumes I like to keep. What about those neat little trophy things?

Again, I want to have fun. Micromanaging my inventory is not fun to me. Simply making any crafting items have their own shared tab (like in GW2 for example) would help. I have no idea why the developers want to limit crafting so much. If they really want that why don't they just limit the number of crafting skills you can do per account and be done with it?

As to the quote from the Zenimax person shown up there. Well....I am not sure what to say about that at all other than the off the cuff "joke" fell kinda flat with me.

badmojo · June 2014

kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »

I just fail to see how we are supposed to play "how we like" and be limited to crafting just one craft on one character.

You're not limited to just one craft per character. But, when you try to pick up everything and level everything at the same time, you're going to run into lots of inventory issues.

Start with provisioning. Level that skill up quickly at low levels. Once you've reached 50, which shouldn't take very long, stop picking up ingredients you don't need. Keep track of which items you need for your current food and only worry about keeping those. Maybe learn the rare ones and save those too, even if just to sell them later.

Alchemy does take longer than provisioning, but once you've learned the traits of each reagent, you don't need to pickup and keep them all anymore. You can figure out which 3 you need for your potions and then collect only those.

Enchanting is a tough one, but only if you're like me and want to keep a collection of runes in storage for a rainy day. If I had issues with space I would simply turn every runes I get into a glyph on an alt, or trade glyphs with another person. If the goal is to get level 50 enchanting, and not to collect runes, there shouldn't be much issue with inventory space.

For wood, cloth, and metal working it's really simple, just deconstruct everything and sell most of it to either players or vendor it. It's worth keeping a stack of the trait stones in your bank, racial material too, but that can also be bought from NPCs, so not needed. Obviously keep the upgrade material, but that's only about 9 slots.

What does that even leave? Some trophies, rare stuff like kuta runes, pets, soul gems, maybe some unique weapons.

There isn't all that much you actually need to keep in order to level up your crafting skills. I find it's just the urge to keep everything that makes inventory unmanageable. If someone wants to become a master craftsman in every skill, the inventory space is going to suck, but if you level them up gradually over time, without saving every material associated with every craft, you'll do fine. It's not like Jute is ever going out of season, it'll still be growing there if you ever need it.

alleigha · June 2014

Like your ideas, and I agree completely that there is not enough bag space and it makes the game very tedious running back and forth to the bank.

Another idea is to let a crafter make and sell bags (rather then having just one static bag) and then you can have some bags occasionally drop off of mobs. Give us other ways to get bag space. The prices are way too high, and its restrictive.

Having a separate crafting bag seems very reasonable as you pointed out.

The way it is, it comes off as hard to manage. Much time is put into that rather then having fun adventuring.

snagallnub18_ESO · June 2014

i have made 3 mule GUILDs... this banking system is stupid

Blackwidow · June 2014

badmojo wrote: »

How many characters do you actually play? You keep going on and on about having to have so many mule characters, I can't believe you actually play more than one or two.

I play 5. I used to play 4, but I bought enough bank space to clear a mule bank out.

Why would Cogo making it work with only 1 character be 'nuff said'?

I guess you refuse to actually read the thread, so I'll go over this just for you.

ESO's bank is great for a solo player because you actually start with a large bank for one character.

The problem comes in when you need to share that same bank with other characters who have their own stuff, but do not have their own bank space to put that stuff.

Then there is the multiple levels of items for crafting for each character. A lot of posters keep saying to throw out the old craft materials you no longer use at lower level to save space. You can't do that if you need those materials for your other multi leveled characters.

You also have all the different weapons/armor of all the different levels and no room to even think about trying to collect certain sets for each character.

Your whole basis for this being a big problem is that everyone has to have mules to make it work.

No.

What I claim is it is very hard to use the shared bank with multiple characters who craft, so most people are using mules to compensate.

Cogo here is saying he doesn't even have another character, let alone using them as mules.

Yeah, duh. He would not need mules, because he is not sharing his bank with anyone.

But go ahead, stick your head in the sand.

If you want to mock me, at least make sense.

You're not limited to just one craft per character.

ZOS does not even want you to have 1 craft per character. If each of your 8 characters did just 1 craft, you would still have all 6 crafts in one tiny bank.

But, when you try to pick up everything and level everything at the same time, you're going to run into lots of inventory issues.

Even you admit there are lots of inventory issues, yet you fight to keep the system as is.

Amazing.

Sidney · June 2014

I think a lot of the issues could be alleviated by allowing items to stack higher and other items to stack as well.

Example:

Lockpicks should stack to 300+
Food items stack to 300+
Allow identical glyphs to stack. Why can't they?
I like that there's quite a few different types of potions but when I have 7 different level 40 potions that heal for maybe 4-6 points difference each, it becomes ridiculous. I think all level 40 potions should heal for the same amount and tick for either the same or have low range and high range (and only these 2) so you only get 2 types of level 40 healing potions.
Fishing Bait should stack to 300+
Maps should be part of some kind of UI instead of items in the inventory. Maybe have 1 map inventory item that we open up and inside is interactable maps. If we have map, it lights up and we can click on it and see. If we've used it, it's still lit up but with a big red X on it. Maps we haven't found yet are dull and unable to be clicked on.
This one is kind of extreme but could be a neat bonus - allow items marked as junk by the game (as in, items that are literal junk, not ones we marked as junk) to not count towards bag space. Not sure how I feel about this option myself but hey, throwing it out there for others to read.

badmojo · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

Even you admit there are lots of inventory issues, yet you fight to keep the system as is.

Amazing.

Actually I said there will be issues if you play a certain way. Mainly picking everything up and saving it all for a rainy day. Saving all those different levels of armor and weapons for another character is creating your own problem. Saving stacks of Jute for another character, is creating your own problem.

You refuse to adapt to the system put in front of you, it's your own fault for not avoiding the issues it can create. Are your crafting skills all at 50? So why are you saving stuff in your bank? Use it, level up and put that bank space to better use.

I think my problem with this thread and its suggestions is there's no end to it. Your bank/bag space is just a buffer, increasing that buffer will only increase the amount of time between having to deal with it, it will also increase the time spent clearing that buffer out. The only option to actually fix this would be to essentially make your bank space unlimited. Why would an unlimited bank be good for this game?

badmojo · June 2014

Also, how can you even complain about this if you haven't upgraded your bank and bag to the maximum? Wouldn't that be like some level 20 complaining about VR content?

Allyah · June 2014

Lodestar wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »

"Inventory is unmanageable" - for the pack rat; keep less. Simple.

Read the actual thread, not just the title.

@Allyah‌, the post in question did not address or have anything to do with you, nor was it inflammatory.

He had no intentions of reading the thread. He is one of the less committed dissenters, who charge in, grunt once or twice to make a blanket statement, with derogatory tone, and move on.

Had a few here, and about 3 or so committed objectors, who just repeat the same things over again, with same put downs. None of which are worth getting wound up over or engaging. Tempting though it can be I do accept.

I did read the thread and even responded to it.

Moderator edit: edited for personal attacks.