Why is everyone so determined to say ESO is *not* a 'WoW clone'??

1. Questing/Progression
2. Crafting
3. Looting
4. Dungeons
5. Partys
6. Raids
7. Mounts
8. Factions
9. PvP
10. PvE
11. Lore

And the list goes on....except a trade broker of some sort....and we even have that, albeit a bad one, in my opinion. This is such a bad defense as to why people don't want a trade broker. People that do want a public trade broker are willing to compromise for a faction or zone based one but all the "fanbois" are just argumentative. It will not destroy the already nonexistent economy that we have now.

WoW was the fore runner in all this and is STILL the gold standard when it comes to MMOs otherwise no one would ever mention it.

So let's hear why this isn't a "reskined" WoW.

Cogo wrote: »

Read through your own post again. You say many reasons to solve this "problem".

Fact: A global auction house will take away game play and the wonderful ESO world feeling you are actually in Tamriel. A global Auction house would not only ruin that, but also the economy.

I love how people post statements like this with absolutely nothing to back it up. I can think of zero ways in which an auction house would 'take away' gameplay, it would just add another option for commerce for those of us who don't wish to be in one of the zergrecruit guilds. There is no reason why these guild shops couldn't still exist online a global system. If those of you who sing the praises of the awesomeness of the guild shop and the communities are truly sincere, the implementation of an auction house would not take that away from you. It almost seems like you just don't want other people to enjoy the same level of gameplay that you do.

A global auction house would not "ruin the economy" and I've yet to see any argument actually showing how this would be the case, either here or in the other thousands-of-replies thread about this topic in the crafting section. Considering the economy as it stands now is nonexistent save for mini-bubbles of large guilds and/or if you count WTS chat spam as a market.

You've gone on at length about how "I must be doing it wrong" with the guild system and in the same breath said that the game gives you complete freedom to play how you want. Clearly that isn't the case. I'm forced to join trade guilds and deal with all the hassles/problems they entail if I want any hope of having anything resembling a market, and while the idyllic wonderful guild experience you describe certainly exists, it is certainly not the norm or majority.

I'm glad you have a great guild and am truly happy that you are having a good experience. Based how often this topic has come up, I can say that there are a large, large number of players who are not.

Wintersage wrote: »

I never thought I'd see a market system that was worse than the original FFXIV bazaar crap.

Congrats, ZOS. You have managed to make it more difficult to buy stuff in your game than it is in RL.

I do wonder what crime you think we are guilty of that you feel the need to punish us so.

Or is the idea to cut down on botting? How's that working out for you?

Don't worry, they're alienating more and more players every day. Just you wait! That thing you really want... next patch!!

We won't need an auction house because there won't be anyone left at the rate they're dropping subs.

@Shimizu Are you familiar with the concept of Market Response to Excess Supply in Macroeconomics?

When the supply of goods exceeds the demand for goods, you have a surplus and a disequilibrium in the market, which destabilizes the market and prevents it from working efficiently. Prices will continue to drop until the market reaches an equilibrium point where supply and demand are nearly equal. Once the market stabilizes, the manufacturers reduce the amount of that product they make to encourage consumers to continue buying it without creating another large surplus that could cause the price to drop even further.

If the market never stabilizes though and manufacturers continue to produce the goods at the same rate and the surplus continues to exist for too long, eventually the bottom falls out of the market for that product and it becomes worthless/unsalable. In the real world, this doesn't happen though because the manufacturers sell the surplus products off to other distributors who can take the product to a different market where there isn't already a surplus. This allows both markets to reach an equilibrium, but it hinges upon the markets not having a large over-lap of consumers because if the same consumers exist in both markets, then they can't lessen the impact of the surplus and both markets will bottom-out and render the product worthless/unsalable.

A global AH creates a market where every consumer overlaps with every other market. This means there are no foreign markets to shift goods to when a surplus exists, and no way to stabilize the market and prevent a product from becoming worthless/unsalable when a excess supply of the goods exists.

I agree that Guild Stores limit the size of a market too much, but a global or even faction based AH would create a economic system where certain items have a shelf life on the market and once it's passed, it becomes nearly impossible to sell them any longer. Especially when you consider that we as players have zero ways of slowing the production of an item when a surplus exists. Since we can't stop producing those items, the best solution is to have multiple, individual markets where you can shift a surplus.

That is why I'm opposed to global auction houses. Feel free to disagree.

Cogo wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

Why is everyone so determined to say ESO is *not* a 'WoW clone'??

1. Questing/Progression
2. Crafting
3. Looting
4. Dungeons
5. Partys
6. Raids
7. Mounts
8. Factions
9. PvP
10. PvE
11. Lore

And the list goes on....except a trade broker of some sort....and we even have that, albeit a bad one, in my opinion. This is such a bad defense as to why people don't want a trade broker. People that do want a public trade broker are willing to compromise for a faction or zone based one but all the "fanbois" are just argumentative. It will not destroy the already nonexistent economy that we have now.

WoW was the fore runner in all this and is STILL the gold standard when it comes to MMOs otherwise no one would ever mention it.

So let's hear why this isn't a "reskined" WoW.

If you claim that this list of yours only comes from wow, then you know NOTHING about MMOs history. Every single item on your list have been in MMORPGs YEARS before WoW even got released.

If you REALLY want me to name each and every MMORPG that was out years before WoW, I can. But anyone who played MMOs from the -90ies or even follow MMO news/sites, knows that this list sure is in WoW. But they did not invent a single one of them.

That's the point genius

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Sarcasm isn't translatable on the internet. It's like that person trolling the zone the other day with "WoW was the first MMO." and people were taking him seriously.

Unless that was you...

Hehehehe....no it wasn't me! My point was that about every third response is someone crying that an auction house will make ESO a 'WoW clone' which in reality it is....all MMO's follow that path.

I was asking how it is possible to NOT call ESO a WoW clone and Cogo basically proved my point.

Khandi wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Sarcasm isn't translatable on the internet. It's like that person trolling the zone the other day with "WoW was the first MMO." and people were taking him seriously.

Unless that was you...

Hehehehe....no it wasn't me! My point was that about every third response is someone crying that an auction house will make ESO a 'WoW clone' which in reality it is....all MMO's follow that path.

I was asking how it is possible to NOT call ESO a WoW clone and Cogo basically proved my point.

I completely misunderstood your post. I thought you lined up what WoW created and everyone followed. My apologize.

Cogo wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Sarcasm isn't translatable on the internet. It's like that person trolling the zone the other day with "WoW was the first MMO." and people were taking him seriously.

Unless that was you...

Hehehehe....no it wasn't me! My point was that about every third response is someone crying that an auction house will make ESO a 'WoW clone' which in reality it is....all MMO's follow that path.

I was asking how it is possible to NOT call ESO a WoW clone and Cogo basically proved my point.

I completely misunderstood your post. I thought you lined up what WoW created and everyone followed. My apologize.

You have to watch out for Khandi, she's crafty

I don't think joining 5 guilds and having to sell only to those 5 guilds contributes anything positive to the game. I started a guild, and joined 2 other guilds for the purpose of trading. The only guild I care about is the one I created. I would rather have one guild to think about, and then have the AH to make my money. I craft items and I want to sell to the largest market possible, not just to my 5 guilds.

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

methjester wrote: »

Cybrdroyd wrote: »

I don't think joining 5 guilds and having to sell only to those 5 guilds contributes anything positive to the game. I started a guild, and joined 2 other guilds for the purpose of trading. The only guild I care about is the one I created. I would rather have one guild to think about, and then have the AH to make my money. I craft items and I want to sell to the largest market possible, not just to my 5 guilds.

Don't forget, you can only sell to one guild at a time. So if you have a really cool item, it's only getting seen by that one guild.

Folks who love and support the Guild store and zone shouts have some magic mechanism that allows them to sell instantly. I would love to know their secrets.

Abracadabra presto! Its called members

Yes! 500 members. Assuming all 500 log on and check, and are of the appropriate level and skill to use the item you are selling. I know when I sell vet 6 crafted light armor belts with 3 stats all 500 people are going to want that exact item!!! Same goes for making vet 6 armor enchants to along with that belt. Yep, all 500 people in that guild, in that timeframe (thank god for the 30 day posts) are rushing to buy things.

I know I love crafting, posting, and waiting. I'm glad your guild has such a target demo for your wares. kanni join??

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

@Shimizu Are you familiar with the concept of Market Response to Excess Supply in Macroeconomics?

When the supply of goods exceeds the demand for goods, you have a surplus and a disequilibrium in the market, which destabilizes the market and prevents it from working efficiently. Prices will continue to drop until the market reaches an equilibrium point where supply and demand are nearly equal. Once the market stabilizes, the manufacturers reduce the amount of that product they make to encourage consumers to continue buying it without creating another large surplus that could cause the price to drop even further.

If the market never stabilizes though and manufacturers continue to produce the goods at the same rate and the surplus continues to exist for too long, eventually the bottom falls out of the market for that product and it becomes worthless/unsalable. In the real world, this doesn't happen though because the manufacturers sell the surplus products off to other distributors who can take the product to a different market where there isn't already a surplus. This allows both markets to reach an equilibrium, but it hinges upon the markets not having a large over-lap of consumers because if the same consumers exist in both markets, then they can't lessen the impact of the surplus and both markets will bottom-out and render the product worthless/unsalable.

A global AH creates a market where every consumer overlaps with every other market. This means there are no foreign markets to shift goods to when a surplus exists, and no way to stabilize the market and prevent a product from becoming worthless/unsalable when a excess supply of the goods exists.

I agree that Guild Stores limit the size of a market too much, but a global or even faction based AH would create a economic system where certain items have a shelf life on the market and once it's passed, it becomes nearly impossible to sell them any longer. Especially when you consider that we as players have zero ways of slowing the production of an item when a surplus exists. Since we can't stop producing those items, the best solution is to have multiple, individual markets where you can shift a surplus.

That is why I'm opposed to global auction houses. Feel free to disagree.

You have made a strong point and I agree with you to a certain extent but the bad part about guild stores is that I cant find what I'm looking for most of the time if not at all so its become pointless for me to even bother looking. Also another good point which is worth mentioning is that it takes to damn long to look through 5 different guild stores! So, the whole thing is basicaly worthless for me and I dont even bother with it any more. Tried finding mountain flower the other day and it took me over an hour to look through 5 different guild stores. And none of them had any for sale. If we had an aution house I would have found what I was needing but instead I wasted over an hour of my time and got NOTHING for it! >.< Feel free to disagree but when you cant find what you needed and it took you all day to find that out the hard way you can think on what I have said!

Cogo wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Sarcasm isn't translatable on the internet. It's like that person trolling the zone the other day with "WoW was the first MMO." and people were taking him seriously.

Unless that was you...

Hehehehe....no it wasn't me! My point was that about every third response is someone crying that an auction house will make ESO a 'WoW clone' which in reality it is....all MMO's follow that path.

I was asking how it is possible to NOT call ESO a WoW clone and Cogo basically proved my point.

I completely misunderstood your post. I thought you lined up what WoW created and everyone followed. My apologize.

You have to watch out for Khandi, she's crafty

Lolz...admittedly it was worded a little strange...it was pre-coffee. I really didn't mean to poke fun at Cogo.

And the truth is most forum posts are not read, just skimmed over, and then someone takes umbrage at what they *imagine* was said.

An AH will not make ESO a 'WoW clone"

Feel free to poke as much fun at me as possible. I do have a wierd and uncommon view on these games. I WANT everything to be as challenging and hard as possible. Even to the extent that only some can do this, and other that etc.

Like in the Olympics, I want a lot of contesters but only one can be the master of each section. But then I mean LOADS of sections. I just don't like everyone being the best at everything. ESO sort of gives me that

It's not about what best for you.

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

If the market never stabilizes though and manufacturers continue to produce the goods at the same rate and the surplus continues to exist for too long, eventually the bottom falls out of the market for that product and it becomes worthless/unsalable. In the real world, this doesn't happen though because the manufacturers sell the surplus products off to other distributors who can take the product to a different market where there isn't already a surplus. This allows both markets to reach an equilibrium, but it hinges upon the markets not having a large over-lap of consumers because if the same consumers exist in both markets, then they can't lessen the impact of the surplus and both markets will bottom-out and render the product worthless/unsalable.

That is why I'm opposed to global auction houses. Feel free to disagree.

It's a game, the devs can alter or even cancel the rate at which items drop.
Swtor has something like an Auction house (admittedly with smaller servers), it just adjusts the drop rates every fortnight or so. With a bigger server they would probably need to adjust every week (maintenance would be a good time), but the economy wouldn't collapse.

Besides one thing SWTOR showed is no matter how rare an item, two thirds of the playerbase won't pay above a certain price, and most of the other third will only pay if they are finishing off collections. People have an idea of what they want to pay, too high and they don't pay, too cheap and they buy it and bung it back on to sell themselves.