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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Auction house is a must!
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Xithian✭✭✭alphawolph wrote: »Bottom line for me is ESO plays like a single player game for me 99% of the time cause i vendor everything. Best single player mmo on the market.
You vendoring everything is a personal choice. I vendor clothing items, woodworking items, jewelry, and vendor trash. Everything else I either use, sell to players, or store in the guild bank for fellow crafters.3 -
alphawolph✭✭✭
I know right. No AH has kept bots out of eso.ChairGraveyard wrote: »This isn't WoW. No reason to add a botter/cheater's paradise global AH.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭alphawolph wrote: »
I know right. No AH has kept bots out of eso.ChairGraveyard wrote: »This isn't WoW. No reason to add a botter/cheater's paradise global AH.
Pathetic straw man attempt there. I never said lack of an AH keeps bots out. I said that a global AH is a cheater's/botter's paradise, which it is.
Reading comprehension, how does it work? Apparently you wouldn't know.Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 13, 2014 4:20PM2 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, all. We want to let you know that we are reading your feedback about auction houses and the ESO economy. We'd like to continue reading this feedback here, but do ask that you keep all comments civil, constructive, and on-topic. Thank you!
Hi Tristan.
I don't want to see an AH in Tamriel, so I don't contribute to these threads ordinarily. I suspect many, many players are of the same mind as me.
I hope you take that into account when considering feedback.
Thank you!
Should probably take into account the poll where 60% of the target demographic favor an AH as well. It can be found in the Crafting subforum, in case you missed it
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alphawolph✭✭✭alphawolph wrote: »Bottom line for me is ESO plays like a single player game for me 99% of the time cause i vendor everything. Best single player mmo on the market.
You vendoring everything is a personal choice. I vendor clothing items, woodworking items, jewelry, and vendor trash. Everything else I either use, sell to players, or store in the guild bank for fellow crafters.
For me it's really the only choice. I refuse to spam zone and guild store is only good for selling motifs.2 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »alphawolph wrote: »
I know right. No AH has kept bots out of eso.ChairGraveyard wrote: »This isn't WoW. No reason to add a botter/cheater's paradise global AH.
Pathetic straw man attempt there. I never said lack of an AH keeps bots out. I said that a global AH is a cheater's/botter's paradise, which it is.
MMO's are a cheater/botter's paradise. AH has nothing to do with it.
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alphawolph✭✭✭
I read just fine. Bots are not related to the AH in any way.ChairGraveyard wrote: »alphawolph wrote: »
I know right. No AH has kept bots out of eso.ChairGraveyard wrote: »This isn't WoW. No reason to add a botter/cheater's paradise global AH.
Pathetic straw man attempt there. I never said lack of an AH keeps bots out. I said that a global AH is a cheater's/botter's paradise, which it is.
Reading comprehension, how does it work? Apparently you wouldn't know.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭alphawolph wrote: »
I read just fine. Bots are not related to the AH in any way.ChairGraveyard wrote: »alphawolph wrote: »
I know right. No AH has kept bots out of eso.ChairGraveyard wrote: »This isn't WoW. No reason to add a botter/cheater's paradise global AH.
Pathetic straw man attempt there. I never said lack of an AH keeps bots out. I said that a global AH is a cheater's/botter's paradise, which it is.
Reading comprehension, how does it work? Apparently you wouldn't know.
You're just ignorant of what goes on, or are complicit, then.3 -
Xithian✭✭✭I've never spammed items over zone chat, and I only use the guild store to list potions/food for cheap to distribute to guildies.1
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭*Edited: Quote from an edited post.*
ESO has proven this a thousand times over in the last month. I can't tell you how many bots I've seen just in the last two days in Daggerfall Covenant sliding around half underground from node to node.Edited by ZOS_LenaicR on May 14, 2014 1:00PM3 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭
The only one grasping is YOU actually.Drachenfier wrote: »C'mon Chair, you're really grasping here. That same bot can be run on any guild store as well, and with small markets its even easier for them to control and manipulate. MMOS are rife with bots, AH or not, ESO has proven this a thousand times over in the last month.
The same bot cannot be run on the guild store, no. Because the guild store is not a global auction house and does not represent all items being sold in the game, as a global auction house does.
If you can control/manipulate the entire game's supply of an item via these types of botting programs, it is significantly different than MAYBE controlling/manipulating the supply on a single guild store.
Not even close.
So again your ignorance of these issues is obvious for everyone to see.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭*Edited: Quote from an edited post.*Edited by ZOS_LenaicR on May 14, 2014 1:01PM2
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »C'mon Chair, you're really grasping here. That same bot can be run on any guild store as well, and with small markets its even easier for them to control and manipulate. MMOS are rife with bots, AH or not, ESO has proven this a thousand times over in the last month.
If you can control/manipulate the entire game's supply of an item via these types of botting programs, it is significantly different than MAYBE controlling/manipulating the supply on a single guild store.
Except you can't. The bots cannot control the production, therefore they cannot control the supply. It is virtually impossible for what you describe to happen.So again your ignorance of these issues is obvious for everyone to see.
Heh, this is true for one of us, and it certainly isn't me.2 -
alphawolph✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »alphawolph wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Global Auction houses enable stuff like this:
http://i.imgur.com/Kyrdu3Y.png
(That's an Auction House bot - yes, they exist, even if newbies don't know they exist.)
Is that some mod?
It's an example of the type of cheat programs (automated trading) that can only be possible on a global AH.
This allows malicious users to do things such as buy up the entire supply of a certain type of item (i.e., Jute) and then relist it all for a massive markup.
Which is impossible without a global AH, because the entire supply is not available to be bought, since it's fragmented into local stores.
Of course a lot of people here don't really understand this aspect, and so don't grasp the benefit of disallowing cheaters to manipulate and control the global AH economy.
While you could use similar programs on guild stores, they would not allow you to manipulate the economy on a game-wide scale as they do in games with a global AH.
I don't have a problem with this. Guy buys all the jute. Then relists it all for say 600. I go farm a stack list it for 550. No matter what happens next I win.4 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭alphawolph wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »alphawolph wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Global Auction houses enable stuff like this:
http://i.imgur.com/Kyrdu3Y.png
(That's an Auction House bot - yes, they exist, even if newbies don't know they exist.)
Is that some mod?
It's an example of the type of cheat programs (automated trading) that can only be possible on a global AH.
This allows malicious users to do things such as buy up the entire supply of a certain type of item (i.e., Jute) and then relist it all for a massive markup.
Which is impossible without a global AH, because the entire supply is not available to be bought, since it's fragmented into local stores.
Of course a lot of people here don't really understand this aspect, and so don't grasp the benefit of disallowing cheaters to manipulate and control the global AH economy.
While you could use similar programs on guild stores, they would not allow you to manipulate the economy on a game-wide scale as they do in games with a global AH.
I don't have a problem with this. Guy buys all the jute. Then relists it all for say 600. I go farm a stack list it for 550. No matter what happens next I win.
And this is exactly why his hypothetical scenario is full of fail.2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Only thing I have spanned on zone chat is WTT motif earlier both ended in sale, then I bought one from someone who sold.I've never spammed items over zone chat, and I only use the guild store to list potions/food for cheap to distribute to guildies.
Now the bottom has fallen out of marked and I have all common so I give to guild mates.
I sell purple and nice blue I don't need in store, else I don't need I either sell or dump in guild bank.
Yes it has kickbacks as I described earlier, benefit of a small friendly Khajiit RP guild.
And yes sending mail is no problem, for real expensive stuff its better to do it personal.
More of an issue is that if nobody in guild would give you 2 green temper for free, change guild.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No one is trying to force you to use an auction house Kari. And if they were to add one, you could simply stick to the way you are playing and forget its there.
As I said directly above, that's just untrue. It would still affect everyone. It would affect the market and the community in general.For a recent example: I just hit level 28 and was wanting to craft me a new set of at least green armor. I however ran out of honing stones - checked every single one of my guild stores this morning. Not a single one was up for sale in any of them. Not one.
So again I am going to have to wander around opening chests and collecting loot for hours and hours hoping I get lucky from deconstructing. This game's economy - in its current state - simply doesn't work.
Did you once during that time take a trip to a major city and ask if anyone had Honing Stones to sell? Ask in guild? Because most of us tradeskillers have stacks of them sitting in the bank. Literally. Hundreds.
No it shouldn't. Not if using these guild stores and trade spam is truly such a great social experience as the anti-auction house people say. People could continue to do it and simply opt out from using the auction house all together and remain in their own isolated markets.
Adding an auction house in no way would prevent you from doing this.
Or are you admitting the auction house is superior and most people would forgo the guild stores and trade spam and instead use that? Because if that's what you are saying then you are in a sense defeating your own argument and admitting it's the better system that most people would prefer to use.
And yes, I tried asking in Mournhold zone chat. No takers.Edited by Jeremy on May 13, 2014 6:46PM4 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Jute is not the main issue as its easy to get, I would go after temper or runes.ChairGraveyard wrote: »
The only one grasping is YOU actually.Drachenfier wrote: »C'mon Chair, you're really grasping here. That same bot can be run on any guild store as well, and with small markets its even easier for them to control and manipulate. MMOS are rife with bots, AH or not, ESO has proven this a thousand times over in the last month.
The same bot cannot be run on the guild store, no. Because the guild store is not a global auction house and does not represent all items being sold in the game, as a global auction house does.
If you can control/manipulate the entire game's supply of an item via these types of botting programs, it is significantly different than MAYBE controlling/manipulating the supply on a single guild store.
Not even close.
So again your ignorance of these issues is obvious for everyone to see.
Buy everything so you corner the marked and create an lack of item, now you have established an high price as default and can start to sell expensive.
Other sellers will follow your price perhaps underbid some, you continue to sell expensive.
This happens in real world too, the spikes in oil price come from this.
In ESO this would not work do it on some shops and smart traders will notice and start feeding your bot while nobody would buy.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.3 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Regardless of your feelings that this stuff wouldn't matter, the devs understand it quite well, and that's why they are not doing a global AH.
It is absolutely trivial to corner the market and just keep buying up the supply, relisting it at the new artificially inflated price, etc. All automatically via these types of bots.
And it can be done simultaneously to many, many items at once with a global AH.
The only requirement is gold, which botters and RMT have in abundance, and allowing them to control the market simply multiplies their advantage by orders of magnitude.
The lack of a global AH is the best thing to happen to ESO, and I applaud the devs' foresight in not allowing cheaters to run their game economy, even if many players are too naive or ignorant of what goes on to understand how good a decision it was.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Regardless of your feelings that this stuff wouldn't matter, the devs understand it quite well, and that's why they are not doing a global AH.
It is absolutely trivial to corner the market and just keep buying up the supply, relisting it at the new artificially inflated price, etc. All automatically via these types of bots.
And it can be done simultaneously to many, many items at once with a global AH.
The only requirement is gold, which botters and RMT have in abundance, and allowing them to control the market simply multiplies their advantage by orders of magnitude.
The lack of a global AH is the best thing to happen to ESO, and I applaud the devs' foresight in not allowing cheaters to run their game economy, even if many players are too naive or ignorant of what goes on to understand how good a decision it was.
Out of all my many years of playing MMORPGs I have never seen this phenomenon where bots continuously buy up the market and inflate the prices on everything happen. Never.
And It has nothing to do with us being naïve or ignorant. It has to do with the fact that your counter argument is a complete and utter fiction. And even if there was such a super bot controlling the whole economy it would be painfully obvious on the market boards and they would be banned.
Besides, the reason the developers did not implement an auction house had nothing to do with bots or gold spammers or any of that. It had to do with them fearing it would offer us an economy that was too good and make rare items readily available to buy. So basically the exact opposite of what you are saying where everything supposedly would become hyper inflated and difficult to purchase.
So even the developers understand that auction houses make for a very good economy. So can we please cut the bull about auction houses causing bots to control the game. Because they don't.Edited by Jeremy on May 13, 2014 5:44PM6 -
alphawolph✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Regardless of your feelings that this stuff wouldn't matter, the devs understand it quite well, and that's why they are not doing a global AH.
It is absolutely trivial to corner the market and just keep buying up the supply, relisting it at the new artificially inflated price, etc. All automatically via these types of bots.
And it can be done simultaneously to many, many items at once with a global AH.
The only requirement is gold, which botters and RMT have in abundance, and allowing them to control the market simply multiplies their advantage by orders of magnitude.
The lack of a global AH is the best thing to happen to ESO, and I applaud the devs' foresight in not allowing cheaters to run their game economy, even if many players are too naive or ignorant of what goes on to understand how good a decision it was.
You just can't stop calling people with a different opinion names can you?3 -
Gwarok✭✭✭Let's think out side of the box for a moment.
Last night I chatting with a friend (who is also a main guildie of mine) that came up with a pretty neat idea, really neat actually..no BRILLIANT! It keeps guild stores, completely scrubs out the "global AH" concept, and provides the "social interaction" people are craving for, on a GLOBAL scale even.
Ladies and gentlemen... Welcome to: Bartertown Island
Leave your weapons and mounts at the door as for they will not be needed and our only rule is: No dueling is allowed.
De plane, Boss, de plane!!!
Edited by Gwarok on May 13, 2014 6:01PM"Strive for balance of all things. When the scales tip to one side or the other, someone or somethings gets short-changed. When someone gets short-changed, unpredictability and strife unbalance the world around us...To achieve freedom from greed, from want, and from strife, all parties in any exchange MUST find balance." -House Hlaalu's Philosophy of Trade
"I am ALWAYS very busy, so I KNOW what's best. You need to stay away from the waterfall. TRUST ME, you're better off keeping busy than playing in the stream....Do you know how to swim, Little Scrib?"
"I am but a simple farmer". -Rags'nar LodesBroke
#SKOOMA!
(Juliet):
...it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man.
O, be some other name!
What's in a name?
That which we call a rose?
By any other name would smell as sweet.
Retain that dear perfection to which he owes...
(Act II, Scene II -William Shakespeare's: Romeo & Juliet -1595 A.D.)3 -
Evanis✭✭✭Besides, the reason the developers did not implement an auction house had nothing to do with bots or gold spammers or any of that. It had to do with them fearing it would offer us an economy that was too good and make rare items readily available to buy.
Additionally, ESO was rushed. The significant delay in porting to consoles speaks to this fact.
Sooner or later, ESO will have a global AH. Too many players want one and I'm sure they are loosing subs because of it (cancelled my sub this morning). My gaming time is limited, so I don't have the luxury to persist and hope that this gets sorted out. I have moved on with another MMO at this time, but I will be checking back occasionally to see if ZOS finally sees reason and gives the majority of players what they want and expect from a modern MMO.Edited by Evanis on May 13, 2014 8:24PM3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Besides, the reason the developers did not implement an auction house had nothing to do with bots or gold spammers or any of that. It had to do with them fearing it would offer us an economy that was too good and make rare items readily available to buy.
Additionally, ESO was rushed. The significant delay in porting to consoles speaks to this fact.
Sooner or later, ESO will have a global AH. Too many players want one and I'm sure they are loosing subs because of it (cancelled my sub this morning). My gaming time is limited, so I don't have the luxury to persist and hope that this gets sorted out. I have moved on with another MMO at this time, but I will be checking back occasionally to see if ZOS finally sees reason and gives the majority of players what they want.
I hope you're right that they will eventually add a global AH. Or at least something similar that works. And I'm sure you're right when you say not having one is costing them subs.5 -
First, improve the UI for the Guild Stores (including adding the ability to search by name field), then investigate the possibility of Regional Trade Houses. NOT global a monolithic AH.
Why? Because a fragmented economic system benefit MMO's better than a global AH, which itself can greater succumb to supply and demand issues than a fragmented system would.
Just look at GW2's global system. Too much availability on one system can cause prices to plummet as people consistently try to outsell each other due to over-supply.
Regional Trade Houses would be somewhat insulted from such problems, and they would also encourage travel, as well as encourage players to revisit old areas of the game, searching for bargains.
Eve Online and SWG (pre-nge) both had regional trade systems and they work/worked beautifully.Edited by rioinsigniab16_ESO on May 13, 2014 9:37PMHow can you soar with eagles.....when you work with turkeys?1 -
bpunk✭AH will also solve the inventory problem. Oh sorry, people don't want QOL features cause it's a real MMO. I think they should remove guild stores and remove zone chats.. I mean really in real life you cannot yell to the world, only to the people next to you so you should be able to trade with people next to you only. In fact, they should reduce the inventory to 3 items, I mean who carries 3 armors around on a daily basis.
This shrine thing and horse mounts are dumb as well. Let's just walk back to town cause that's immersive. At least while walking back I will chat with the guild members who are hopefully next to me (as otherwise they wont hear me,) as that would really create the social dialogue I need from this game because I can't chat with people otherwise.
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭rioinsigniab16_ESO wrote: »
Just look at GW2's global system. Too much availability on one system can cause prices to plummet as people consistently try to outsell each other due to over-supply.
Thats.how.supply.and.demand.works.
Again, like many other anti-AH crusaders here, what you're saying is that you like to keep prices artificially high by limiting the supply.
Unless you just like ripping off your fellow players, I have to ask...why?Edited by Drachenfier on May 13, 2014 9:52PM7
This discussion has been closed.