There's a lot that would technically be a buff, not everything is useful simply because it's a positive change. What's frustrating is post after post after post of suggestions that result in something totally different than all the suggestions that would be actually beneficial...add that to zero complaints about DK damage resulting in a Major damage buff tacked on to the class with the most damage.

This is why people make jokes about buffs and nerfs seeming to come from spinning a wheel or throwing darts...there is an absolute disconnect from the reality of the game, particularly when it comes to PvP. It really is like they don't know what's actually happening in their game.

As for complaints, everyone will want their preferred class stronger, obviously. Players know the legitimate complaints from the unnecessary buff-begging, it's a real shame that ZoS can't seem to tell the difference because, again, it seems like they don't know their game.

Stormweaver's Cavort mythic was the magic ingredient for me. Defense of a StamSorc with the offense of a MagSorc. Fun stuff. Probably my best build rn.

Honestly I feel sorcerors are amongst the most entitled of players. There have been very few patches where sorcs don’t dominate.

Saying that… They are not in a good space atm. I think the mist form changes is a huge boon to them. There is zero reason not to buff their kit as currently they are underpowered. Streak was OP as ***. Don’t lie to yourselves. But now everyone can do it. Sorcs should be buffed now

Most sorc players don't complain that much in general and quite honestly most are actually pretty chill towards receiving nerfs to the class that keeps them in line with the other classes (shields/BoL/frags stun/etc in the past).

The most complaints I see are always from NB mains who still seem to think that its still the Summerset patch and sorcs are the strongest class in the game with no equal and NB are "unplayable" and need even more buffs.

I know that I (and all of my friends who main sorc) held our complaints back for far too long and simply continued to try and make the class work in any way we could until it reached the breaking point of the U35 overnerf.
- Shields got nerfed, no complaints, they were strong, especially when stacked (I still reckon they should have buffed shields and removed stacking as an option, but they wen't the route they chose instead).
- The stun on frags was removed, no complaints, stun on a spammable was strong back then
- Rune cage/defensive rune got nerfed into being unusable, no complaints, fossilize had its range nerfed instead of the delay, so it seemed fair at the time.
- BoL got gutted, no complaints, it was strong and being abused.
- Damage formula got changed which made shields useless unless you completely sacrificed damage, still no complaints.
- Hybridization allowed every other class to easily out burst sorc with much fewer GCD's as well as still being able to play high pressure builds to wear down enemies, yep, still no complaints.
- Power creep in how easy movement speed cap is to reach for every class that allows them to very easily close the gap on an escaping sorc without gap closers, again, still no complaints, that movement was strong and it was nice to see other classes feel the fun, faster playstyle.
- DK abuses a clearly overpowered mythic (oakensoul), yet hardly gets touched and in fact gets buffs, meanwhile sorc "abuses" that same mythic to much less effect or uses a set that is clearly broken and not working as intended (savage werewolf) and gets gutted over it, this was the final straw, this is where I drew the line and finally decided to complain and let zos know that enough was enough with the constant nerfs and pigeonholing of the class into boring builds that barely use the class abilities/themes instead of fixing their broken/bugged/overpowered sets or properly fixing the issues or modernizing the class.
- Every class gets access to a comparable version of streak/BoL to pair with their superior healing/defense, yet the "buff" offered to sorcs to compensate for this theft of class identity and the lack of fixes to the class was to force them even further into running a tank build with no damage or stick to pve with a pet/heavy attack build that simply doesn't function in pvp outside of being a cheese build for duels that barely anyone likes playing. This was an insult to sorc players, especially when so many good ideas were put forward by so many sorc mains that gave specific pain points for the devs to focus their buffs/fixes on, with plenty of time for the devs to design, build and test them out inhouse before the PTS went live.

It was this final point that has drawn so much ire from the sorc community. ZOS was given the information they needed, long before this patch was even being thought about being ported into the PTS servers, they had plenty of time and everything they needed from those who main the class on the issues the class faces and where the buffs/fixes should be focused and instead of listening to those who know the class, they completely ignored all of that good feedback and insulted us by giving the class a buff that it did not need (the same thing they did with crystal weapon back in U34).

i think the sorc could use some buffs defensively, the hardened ward adjustment might help a bit, but i would have liked to see something in the healing, where there are real deficits due to the pet situation. a healing that you simply stop by knocking down a 20k hp pet is bad design.

for my part, they could have added a lower hot to crit surge instead of a heal that only works when you're playing offensively anyway. or a class heal that doesn't force you to use 2 slots with a vulnerable pet.

the healing wouldn't have to be completely absurd, but more than we currently have would be nice.

by the way, i think it was absolutely wrong to buff the execute. this will only lead to more people complaining about sorcs being in second line and throwing an aoe execute around.

Anyone who plays PvP knows that PvP is broken. Systemically. Why complain about only one small part?

All classes have very different prerequisites for PvP. The system is not just unbalanced, it's unfair.

And unless one takes a sword, this gordic knot of a problem isn't going to be solved.

Actually it's pretty great that sorc playerbase still have enough people on forums who care enough to give constructive criticism and feedback, whilst other classes left with literally from one to zero ones who care to do the same.

Do Sorcerers Complain too much?

Well, everyone else seems to complain about sorcs, regardless how strong or weak the class really is. It is always "streak is op", "shield stacking is op", "pets are annoying and ez mode", "sorcs steal kills", etc. etc.

Every little buff - the few that sorcs did receive over time - is met with criticism, every nerf seems to be celebrated on the forums as justified, while other classes continue to be buffed ad nauseam for no apparent reasons.

Not a sorc main but I play one a fair amount and shred every time so I am not convinced they're in any kind of bad shape. Sorcs are unmatched regarding long-range offense + mobility and that should come with some weaknesses. To me it makes sense that healing/tankiness is their weakness.

Well, they are sheltered library denizens, do you expect them to be tuff?

StaticWave wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Not a sorc main but I play one a fair amount and shred every time so I am not convinced they're in any kind of bad shape. Sorcs are unmatched regarding long-range offense + mobility and that should come with some weaknesses. To me it makes sense that healing/tankiness is their weakness.

They aren't. They've never been at the bottom of the tier list. They were definitely shadowed by OP classes like pre-nerfed templar and current DK, but they could hold their own against most builds and classes. If I were to rank them, I'd put them in the B+/A tier.

What baffles me is how most sorc mains refuse to accept that their class would be OP if ZOS decided to buff it using their suggestions. Sorc's playstyle hasn't changed over 5 years, yet it could still keep up with most classes. Any drastic buffs would push the class over the top like NB. NB's never been bad either, but these recent unnecessary buffs turned it into one of the strongest/borderline overperforming classes.

I think the issue is that a lot of people mix up "fixing the class" with "buffing the class"

In terms of actual buffs, I agree with you that just 2 actual straight up buffs are needed.
1. The option of a proper burst heal (honestly, at this point just make 1 of the shield morphs into a proper burst heal instead of a shield if they are that overly concerned about shield stacking with healing, this gives the option to choose a shield playstyle or go with a more standard build with healing).
2. More buff/debuff access (mostly for crit chance/crit damage modifiers (major prophecy/savagery and major or minor force) to synergise the kit properly with crit surge, the class HoT).

In terms of fixes, this is where sorc needs the most help. A general pass through of the abilities/passives to modernize and better synergize the class kit like what they did with dk, nb and most recently warden and combine/update/tidy up duplicate passives that are a relic of the past where the game was weaker and there was still a mag/stam split, where it made sense to split the passives into multiple slots for what they provided.
This would of course require some tooltips to be slightly reduced (by say 5-10%), but it would help a lot with bringing the class into a better spot for everyone and not just the few top players who are still able to make it work.
The pass through would not be a buff to tooltips or values and would quite likely bring a slight nerf to these raw values, but would strictly look at how the kit functions and synergizes compared to the other classes and where it can be improved in this aspect.

When it comes to ranking sorc, this is difficult to do because rankings are super subjective by nature and it depends on who is playing it. In the hands of a good player, the class can still be A+ tier, but in the hands of an average player, this is where it is a B- class at best. U35 was all about "reducing the skill gap" according to the devs own statements, yet the skill gap for sorc is currently at the highest it's ever been at and is significantly higher than the skill gap for every other class in the game, hence why you don't realistically see the class outside of the select few top players that still make the class work or in a ball group as a negate/heal/streak bot or in a zerg using a heavy attack + wrath build from keep walls. That shows that the class itself is not in a good spot, since the players that are playing it are either top tier and can make any class work or are not even bothering with 99% of the class kit.