Do Sorcerers Complain too much?

AdamLAD

StaticWave wrote: »

@AdamLAD You can find me in this clip:

https://youtu.be/oeBxlh8KZao

I was doing a 4v4 against a top tier small scale guild on PC NA 5 years ago. You could see my magsorc in the video under the name Static Wave.

So yes, I’ve played and mained a pure magsorc for quite a while before transitioning to stam. I didn’t transition to stamsorc because it’s better (it was worse than magsorc). I did it because I prefer playing stam more.

I think I know enough about sorc as a class to give my input here. You guys don’t have to agree with me, but if you’re gonna doubt my credibility, just ask any OG PC players and they know who I am lol

When did you transition to stamina ? Have you played pure magicka sorcerer recently? Within the last 2 years?

StaticWave

And yes, in that clip I was not doing well because I was still relatively new (only 3-4 months into PvP), and I was doing a GvG against a top tier guild with very strong smallscalers.

It was a long learning process. I was a zergling magsorc and had to prove to my then guild that I could hold my own in a fight. So i stopped zerging and tried to 1vX. Failed a lot, but gradually improved until one of the guild members, by chance, saw me kite a group of 8 people and lived. That was the turning point for me as a player - a zergling who became a solo player.

Even then, I was still only average at best. When I swapped to stamsorc a year later, my skill level on magsorc was around above average. I could do a 1v3 or a 1v4 (back then a 1v4 was not super impressive, but was considered good) and did pretty ok in GvGs, but playing stam was just better for me.

StaticWave

AdamLAD wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@AdamLAD You can find me in this clip:

https://youtu.be/oeBxlh8KZao

I was doing a 4v4 against a top tier small scale
guild on PC NA 5 years ago. You could see my magsorc in the video under the name Static Wave.

So yes, I’ve played and mained a pure magsorc for quite a while before transitioning to stam. I didn’t transition to stamsorc because it’s better (it was worse than magsorc). I did it because I prefer playing stam more.

I think I know enough about sorc as a class to give my input here. You guys don’t have to agree with me, but if you’re gonna doubt my credibility, just ask any OG PC players and they know who I am lol

When did you transition to stamina ? Have you played pure magicka sorcerer recently? Within the last 2 years?

I played magsorc 5 years ago for one year, switched to stamblade for 6 months, went back to magsorc but just didnt feel mag again, then decided to convert my magsorc to stam and stuck with it since.

I have played it within the last 2 years for fun. Yes it has weaknesses, but it is currently not bad if you go hybrid.

Jsmalls

And I can hit a decent player for the same values, when they aren't running meta resistances or they let their buffs drop lmao. But that's not the competitive scene we live in.

@MetallicMonk

Can you please explain to this man that 10k frags aren't the norm in a competitive scene.

Also drop your stats if you don't mind, I'm curious.

AdamLAD

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@AdamLAD You can find me in this clip:

https://youtu.be/oeBxlh8KZao

I was doing a 4v4 against a top tier small scale
guild on PC NA 5 years ago. You could see my magsorc in the video under the name Static Wave.

So yes, I’ve played and mained a pure magsorc for quite a while before transitioning to stam. I didn’t transition to stamsorc because it’s better (it was worse than magsorc). I did it because I prefer playing stam more.

I think I know enough about sorc as a class to give my input here. You guys don’t have to agree with me, but if you’re gonna doubt my credibility, just ask any OG PC players and they know who I am lol

When did you transition to stamina ? Have you played pure magicka sorcerer recently? Within the last 2 years?

I played magsorc 5 years ago for one year, switched to stamblade for 6 months, went back to magsorc but just didnt feel mag again, then decided to convert my magsorc to stam and stuck with it since.

I have played it within the last 2 years for fun. Yes it has weaknesses, but it is currently not bad if you go hybrid.

So u haven't really properly played it, and said it has its weakness. Ur saying just go hybrid to compete/do better Proves everyone's entire point that mag sorc needs buffing. The fact u haven't even had time to figure out all of its weakness and saying its weak speaks volumes. I shall tell u now there's more if you played it longer especially right now

StaticWave

AdamLAD wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@AdamLAD You can find me in this clip:

https://youtu.be/oeBxlh8KZao

I was doing a 4v4 against a top tier small scale
guild on PC NA 5 years ago. You could see my magsorc in the video under the name Static Wave.

So yes, I’ve played and mained a pure magsorc for quite a while before transitioning to stam. I didn’t transition to stamsorc because it’s better (it was worse than magsorc). I did it because I prefer playing stam more.

I think I know enough about sorc as a class to give my input here. You guys don’t have to agree with me, but if you’re gonna doubt my credibility, just ask any OG PC players and they know who I am lol

When did you transition to stamina ? Have you played pure magicka sorcerer recently? Within the last 2 years?

I played magsorc 5 years ago for one year, switched to stamblade for 6 months, went back to magsorc but just didnt feel mag again, then decided to convert my magsorc to stam and stuck with it since.

I have played it within the last 2 years for fun. Yes it has weaknesses, but it is currently not bad if you go hybrid.

So u haven't really properly played it, and said it has its weakness. Ur saying just go hybrid to compete/do better Proves everyone's entire point that mag sorc needs buffing. The fact u haven't even had time to figure out all of its weakness and saying its weak speaks volumes. I shall tell u now there's more if you played it longer especially right now

I already know you’re going to use that argument against me. So i’m going to give you 2 reasons why you’re wrong:

1) My offense and defense are 90% similar to a magsorc. The only thing I have that pure magsorcs don’t have is Vigor. I can actually argue that magsorcs are tankier because they can stack 2 shields + Surge/Dark Conversion, whereas I only have Vigor, Surge, and Dark Deal.

2) I also played a shield stamsorc with Absorbed Missile, Hardened Ward, and Asylum SnB for a month recently. I survived better than a standard stamsorc build. The fact that I was able to survive better despite using Hardened Ward that doesn’t scale with HP, proves that shield sorc is fine and just needs a HoT.

So no, I don’t need to play magsorc for 5+ years when stamsorc is very similar and can just as easily replicate a magsorc’s playstyle. I doubt you play stamsorc though, so tell me, when was the last time you played my class?

AdamLAD

Can easily replicate a magsorc playstyle whilst simultaneously not playing a magsorc. Ego is huge. It's all I can I can I can. My offence and defence Is 90% of that of a Magicka Sorcerers. How is it. Most Sorcerers use high max magicka for sheild size. You will use high weapon and spell damage. We will not. You will use light medium and heavy. We are forced to use 5 light to get an extra ward. You will use 40k hp. A sheild stack sorc with not. The majority of the community across the board say sorc is trash. [snip] You even admitted its weaker or go hybrid.

[Edited for Baiting]

Melzo

StaticWave wrote: »

Oh btw, these are the stats for the aboved build if I decide to put 64 points into max HP:



45k HP and still above 30k max stam lol.. Basically traded 800 effective weapon damage to get 9k max HP. Slot Clever Alch back bar and I get all of that damage back plus more HP.

I understand your cunning plan. If no one answers in the section, then the section does not develop. You're like a bad cop. A necessary evil for dialogue. I figured out your cunning plan. You are one with AdamLAD and Turtle_Bot and others. Your messages about the sorcerer are the engine of the entire dialogue. haha

StaticWave

AdamLAD wrote: »

Can easily replicate a magsorc playstyle whilst simultaneously not playing a magsorc. Ego is huge. It's all I can I can I can. My offence and defence Is 90% of that of a Magicka Sorcerers. How is it. Most Sorcerers use high max magicka for sheild size. You will use high weapon and spell damage. We will not. You will use light medium and heavy. We are forced to use 5 light to get an extra ward. You will use 40k hp. A sheild stack sorc with not. The majority of the community across the board say sorc is trash. [snip] You even admitted its weaker or go hybrid.

[Edited for Baiting]

Mate, I literally played a gimped SHIELD STAMSORC build and I still had no trouble. Do you understand how bad SHIELD STAMSORC is compared to an actual shield magsorc build?

I have 2 shields, both with a smaller tooltip. I also have less damage than an actual magsorc. Yet I can still kill people and tank decent to top tier magDKs. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

StaticWave

AdamLAD wrote: »

Can easily replicate a magsorc playstyle whilst simultaneously not playing a magsorc. Ego is huge. It's all I can I can I can. My offence and defence Is 90% of that of a Magicka Sorcerers. How is it. Most Sorcerers use high max magicka for sheild size. You will use high weapon and spell damage. We will not. You will use light medium and heavy. We are forced to use 5 light to get an extra ward. You will use 40k hp. A sheild stack sorc with not. The majority of the community across the board say sorc is trash. [snip] You even admitted its weaker or go hybrid.

[Edited for Baiting]

You’re probably a good player on console, and I respect the effort you’re putting in to give magsorc buffs. I am doing the same for stamsorc.

I’m not trying to shut your effort down, you can believe me on that. But I am definitely trying to stop the amount of exaggeration in this post about how bad sorc is, etc.

Sorc is NOT bad, period. It’s average tier and maybe decent in the hands of a good player, but not bad. I think we can all agree that an honest assessment of a class is better than an exaggerated one.

So in short, I am all for buffing sorcs, but to a certain degree.

StaticWave

Melzo wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Oh btw, these are the stats for the aboved build if I decide to put 64 points into max HP:



45k HP and still above 30k max stam lol.. Basically traded 800 effective weapon damage to get 9k max HP. Slot Clever Alch back bar and I get all of that damage back plus more HP.

I understand your cunning plan. If no one answers in the section, then the section does not develop. You're like a bad cop. A necessary evil for dialogue. I figured out your cunning plan. You are one with AdamLAD and Turtle_Bot and others. Your messages about the sorcerer are the engine of the entire dialogue. haha

That’s correct lol 😂

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

And I can hit a decent player for the same values, when they aren't running meta resistances or they let their buffs drop lmao. But that's not the competitive scene we live in.

@MetallicMonk

Can you please explain to this man that 10k frags aren't the norm in a competitive scene.

Also drop your stats if you don't mind, I'm curious.

You don’t need to. We are actually in the same discord and we both don’t like the way forum sorcs complain too much about the class and asks for buffs that would make it overperform.

He isn’t as outspoken as me, but he will say the same thing I am saying, but more well-put.

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

And I can hit a decent player for the same values, when they aren't running meta resistances or they let their buffs drop lmao. But that's not the competitive scene we live in.

@MetallicMonk

Can you please explain to this man that 10k frags aren't the norm in a competitive scene.

Also drop your stats if you don't mind, I'm curious.

I can also drop his stats for you since I asked him what he ran while arguing with you and other sorc mains on the forums.

He has 41.5k mag, 5k spell damage, 40% crit rate, 81% crit damage and crit healing, and 14k pen before Major Breach (20k with Breach). He also has 1.8k mag and stam recovery fully buffed.

He’s using these abilities:

Front Bar: Crushing Shock, Frag, Hardened, Magelight, Streak, Energy Overload

Back Bar: Vigor, Curse, Dark Conversion, Crit Surge, Ele Sus

So like I said, he’s adapted and used 2 HoTs + 1 shield to fix the class’ weakness. He also takes advantage of the crit damage meta and builds for more crit damage instead of the usual max magicka.
Since he has a decent amount of crit healing and crit chance, he’s also crit healing for a good amount.

The way he plays is half magsorc/half stamsorc. He still uses Hardened as his main defense because he’s used to the playstyle, but he also plays like a stamsorc by using HoTs and kiting a lot to heal up.

These are all his words. You can wait for him to answer here, or you can join the discord server and ask him. He will tell you the same thing.

StaticWave

And I know some people will be quick to call his stats “subpar or not enough”. You can always duel him magsorc vs magsorc on PC NA if you think your build is better.

Or, here’s a better way, you can adapt, try slotting some heals, see if it’s still bad, then come back here and give your HONEST input.

AdamLAD

I'm most certainly a good player on console. I have a YouTube. Go see for yourself. For the record I want sorcerer as a whole to be buffed. I'm merely just advocating for Shields more simply because it's a fact they are the weakest form of defence and most expensive. I'm not saying we need to make them gigantic like years ago. I do think 20% base increase for all Wards would be good enough. Remember this is from its base value to your probably only going to get maybe 2k on Hardened ward and maybe 1.5 on light armour Shield. That's only 3.5k maybe 4k extra in total value. That's not alot or ridiculously op. That could potentially be one crit Vigor tick extra in strength in other words. Shield 100% need a cost reduction at minimum, why they are so expensive is beyond my comprehensive ability. Some of our passives need reworking. That's literally it. Other morph of ward could be a burst heal for non shield builds or even hybrid stam sorcs. I'm all for buffs as whole to the class. But out of ALL the styles of play Shields are without a doubt THEE weakest which is why I'm asking for a semi reasonable buff. I've seen people ask for major breach, major protection no ramping cost of streak, no caps on wards. Just one of those would be stronger than what I'm suggesting. Which is basically one extra crit vigour tick size but on wards (Remember you would have too cast 2 wards to get that strength) and a reduction in cost, few passive reworks. Nothing absolutely huge.

ketsparrowhawk

StaticWave wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Bunch of builds that say nothing at all about relative performance to other classes which is the fundamental issue here that this is doing nothing but obfuscating .
Any other class could put together that same gear and I guarantee run it better.

No, they actually do. Some builds excel on one class and doesn't on another. You can't just ignore builds and only talk about class balance. They come in pairs.

Let me repeat - I am advocating for sorc buffs. I have always done that in various forum posts. I am also against over buffing the class, and this is where you and many people don't understand.

A good buff thread recognizes the strengths and weaknesses of a class and gives suggestions to fix the weaknesses. A bad buff thread looks like a straight up complaint and makes the class sound worse than it really is. Most sorc buff threads fall under the latter category.

People are literally complaining so much about Sorc having no damage, sorc having bad defense, etc. all while not understanding why the class needs to be the way it is, and then asking for buffs to remove any drawbacks that are clearly needed to keep the class in check. I'm sorry, but I don't side with these threads.

With you 100% on this

Psiion

Greetings all,

After editing and removing some non constructive posts, we would like to remind everyone that Baiting is against the Forum's Community Rules. We want the ESO Forums to be a welcoming place for all members of the Community to be able to come together and share their thoughts on all things ESO, and the rules are in place to help maintain that environment.

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Jsmalls

@StaticWave

"He has 41.5k mag, 5k spell damage, 40% crit rate, 81% crit damage and crit healing, and 14k pen before Major Breach (20k with Breach). He also has 1.8k mag and stam recovery fully buffed."

So he runs spinner, torc of tonal, sounds like penetration monster set, and probably willpower or something along those lines. And doesn't run major resolve at all, in light armor? And runs ele drain for open world? Sounds squishy, but if he plays it well will certainly help make up for things.

So I have 54.2k Magicka, 4.4k spell damage, 35% crit rate, 60% crit damage, 1800 mag rec, 1500 stamina recovery, and 14k pen (with breach). My back bar also has 57k Magicka for my hardened ward.

So I'm up 13k on Magicka, down 600 on spell damage, so that's a net 700 "spell damage" in my favor, but he has 6k more penetration than me so that's a net ~100 spell damage in my favor.

Obviously he has more crit damage but some of that's going to get negated from impen base stats and impen from each piece worn.

So our builds really aren't much different stat to stat. I'm arguably more tanky than him with minor protection and major resolve with a much larger hardened ward.

But certainly nothing that's going to create a difference of a consistent 10k frag on meta players!

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

@StaticWave

"He has 41.5k mag, 5k spell damage, 40% crit rate, 81% crit damage and crit healing, and 14k pen before Major Breach (20k with Breach). He also has 1.8k mag and stam recovery fully buffed."

So he runs spinner, torc of tonal, sounds like penetration monster set, and probably willpower or something along those lines. And doesn't run major resolve at all, in light armor? And runs ele drain for open world? Sounds squishy, but if he plays it well will certainly help make up for things.

So I have 54.2k Magicka, 4.4k spell damage, 35% crit rate, 60% crit damage, 1800 mag rec, 1500 stamina recovery, and 14k pen (with breach). My back bar also has 57k Magicka for my hardened ward.

So I'm up 13k on Magicka, down 600 on spell damage, so that's a net 700 "spell damage" in my favor, but he has 6k more penetration than me so that's a net ~100 spell damage in my favor.

Obviously he has more crit damage but some of that's going to get negated from impen base stats and impen from each piece worn.

So our builds really aren't much different stat to stat. I'm arguably more tanky than him with minor protection and major resolve with a much larger hardened ward.

But certainly nothing that's going to create a difference of a consistent 10k frag on meta players!

No, he does not run the sets you gave. @gariondavey actually gave the correct build. He's using 2x Chudan, 5x Wretched Vitality, 5x Rallying Cry, and DDF.

His stats are actually much better than yours because he has 21% more crit damage and 6k more pen. In any given scenario, pen is going to net more damage than weapon/spell damage. 6k pen will do more damage than 600 spell damage, and there are plenty of PvE test videos on Youtube that you can find to confirm this. It is even more true if you're fighting against people with higher resistances, where 600 spell damage will diminish in value but 6k pen will not. Therefore, you aren't actually netting ~100 spell damage in your favor, you're losing damage compared to him.

At 81% crit damage, he's also going to crit people for more than you. Let's say you and him are fighting someone with 7 impen and no Rallying Cry. That's about 1320 base crit resist + 127*7 = 2209 crit resistance. Since 66 crit resist = 1% crit damage mitigation, that person will have about 2209/66 = 33% crit damage mitigation.

That person is going to take 81%-33% = 48% extra crit damage from @MetallicMonk versus 27% extra crit damage from you. If both of you hit him for a 7k non crit Frag, he's going to take 10360 dmg from MetallicMonk versus 8890 from you.

Since we also established that pen is more valuable against players with high resistance, you are going to do even less damage to someone with high resistance because you have 6k less pen than him. He's going to still do less damage, but not to a greater degree compared to you.

So in short, no, his build is better than yours.

StaticWave

As for you being tankier, you might be with ward stacking. What you don't have is Vigor. With 40% crit rate and 81% crit healing, he's going to be critting those Vigors constantly and be just as tanky as you. He will also have 3k more armor than you.

In some cases, he's going to be tankier than you because his healing isn't strictly tied to offense. While you need to hit people to proc Crit Surge, he just needs to pop Vigor, switches to his front bar, starts hitting people, and see his HP shoot up from Vigor + Surge.

He basically fixed the weakness of a pure shield stacking magsorc, which is not having reliable heals, by including a strong and reliable HoT. He basically combined the healing power of a stamsorc and the shielding power of a magsorc to create a well rounded build. That is why he doesn't feel like magsorc is bad in the current meta.

As a stamsorc, I already have the healing power. What I don't have is the shielding power of a magsorc, or a burst heal. That is why I said sorcs only need two buffs - more crit rate, and a burst heal. They just gave us HP scaling shields, so I'm 100% going to use that and fix my class' weakness as well.

Jsmalls

@StaticWave

I also think I've stated several times that I'm not complaining about my defensive abilities. I'm certainly not the tankiest person cuz I refuse to give up damage for it, but I'm not super easy to put down (in open world). If I make a mistake I die, but Ive been playing long enough that I don't make them often.

My harp is the underwhelming kit for a burst class to deal with the meta tankiness. You have NBs hitting 30k with two abilities then have a reliable execute to finish them off. Mag Sorc needs more to go right to setup a burst, has a little bit of rng tossed in, and it still won't hit for 30k. Then their execute isn't even worth slotting for most PvP scenarios because it's unreliable (even your buddy doesn't run it). Compare a burst class to a burst class. And NBs are your best comparison there.

StaticWave

AdamLAD wrote: »

I'm most certainly a good player on console. I have a YouTube. Go see for yourself. For the record I want sorcerer as a whole to be buffed. I'm merely just advocating for Shields more simply because it's a fact they are the weakest form of defence and most expensive. I'm not saying we need to make them gigantic like years ago. I do think 20% base increase for all Wards would be good enough. Remember this is from its base value to your probably only going to get maybe 2k on Hardened ward and maybe 1.5 on light armour Shield. That's only 3.5k maybe 4k extra in total value. That's not alot or ridiculously op. That could potentially be one crit Vigor tick extra in strength in other words. Shield 100% need a cost reduction at minimum, why they are so expensive is beyond my comprehensive ability. Some of our passives need reworking. That's literally it. Other morph of ward could be a burst heal for non shield builds or even hybrid stam sorcs. I'm all for buffs as whole to the class. But out of ALL the styles of play Shields are without a doubt THEE weakest which is why I'm asking for a semi reasonable buff. I've seen people ask for major breach, major protection no ramping cost of streak, no caps on wards. Just one of those would be stronger than what I'm suggesting. Which is basically one extra crit vigour tick size but on wards (Remember you would have too cast 2 wards to get that strength) and a reduction in cost, few passive reworks. Nothing absolutely huge.

I am ok with reducing shield cost so you can invest in more damage, but I don't think increasing the size is a good idea. You can already have a 20k+ shield by stacking Hardened + Dampen while having a decent HP pool for magsorc. Increasing that value to 25k is too much. That makes it impossible to burst you down if you are a decent player who reapplies shields correctly.

The cost reduction direction is better out of the two.

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

@StaticWave

I also think I've stated several times that I'm not complaining about my defensive abilities. I'm certainly not the tankiest person cuz I refuse to give up damage for it, but I'm not super easy to put down (in open world). If I make a mistake I die, but Ive been playing long enough that I don't make them often.

My harp is the underwhelming kit for a burst class to deal with the meta tankiness. You have NBs hitting 30k with two abilities then have a reliable execute to finish them off. Mag Sorc needs more to go right to setup a burst, has a little bit of rng tossed in, and it still won't hit for 30k. Then their execute isn't even worth slotting for most PvP scenarios because it's unreliable (even your buddy doesn't run it). Compare a burst class to a burst class. And NBs are your best comparison there.

I must have forgotten that you stated you have no problem with sorc's defense, my apologies. I will redirect my comment about sorc 'sdefense to other players who are saying it's bad.

As for your harp, I agree to a certain extent. I do think that a NB's kit is much better at dealing with the tanky meta in the sense that you can sneak in a 15k bow proc and chunk 50-60% of someone's HP. The front-loaded damage serves that purpose very well. However, you also need to remember that Assassin's Will is very easy to predict and counter, which is why it is necessary for it to have that much front-loaded damage.

The issue of NB is having such easy access to pen, weapon damage, crit damage, and crit chance. While other classes have to give up one or two of those 4 offensive stats to raise the other two, a NB can raise all four at the same time. This basically puts the class at a stat advantage compared to a sorc.

I can assure you that if a sorc has passives that increase crit damage by 12%, 300 crit chance for every Dark Magic ability slotted, 3k more pen when attacking from flank, and something to proc Vamp's 300 weapon/spell dmg passive, it would suddenly do so much more damage than its current version and can match a NB.

AdamLAD

Static I've seen nbs hit for 27k speccy bows and 16k incaps and 12k suprise attacks. That's in PvP.

fred4

I only saw the title question right now. What a brilliant question! Not having read anything else, but being aware of the fall from grace of magsorc in PvP, the loss of effectiveness of shields and sorc's healing issues, I nonetheless have to answer with a resounding yes! Sorc is my second-most played class. It's a fantastic class for solo and dungeon PvE and I'm talking from my experience with Brawler and tank builds, not even the popular heavy attack builds.

In PvP I am a firm believer that mobility skills rule. I love sorc for that reason. As of the time of writing Streak is still an utterly unique skill. Any sorc that diminishes the value and effectiveness of that skill, or the sustain aspect of Dark Deal / Conversion, or sorc's damage passives for that matter, is IMO talking out of their you-know-what.

If you think I'm wrong, I will concede the following. I cannot talk for how competitive classes are at the highest levels of duelling, or 1vXing, or highly organised groups for that matter. If you believe ESO to be a competitive game, if you believe that class balancing should be judged wholly or largely by what you do, and what you do is mostly duelling or 1vXing or playing in premade BG groups, then our perspectives will forever be different. I believe that the perspectives of average and even beginner players are equally important.

With that said, I fear for sorc's identity being further eroded by Mist Form and the Arcanist class this year.

ForumBully

fred4 wrote: »

I only saw the title question right now. What a brilliant question! Not having read anything else, but being aware of the fall from grace of magsorc in PvP, the loss of effectiveness of shields and sorc's healing issues, I nonetheless have to answer with a resounding yes! Sorc is my second-most played class. It's a fantastic class for solo and dungeon PvE and I'm talking from my experience with Brawler and tank builds, not even the popular heavy attack builds.

In PvP I am a firm believer that mobility skills rule. I love sorc for that reason. As of the time of writing Streak is still an utterly unique skill. Any sorc that diminishes the value and effectiveness of that skill, or the sustain aspect of Dark Deal / Conversion, or sorc's damage passives for that matter, is IMO talking out of their you-know-what.

If you think I'm wrong, I will concede the following. I cannot talk for how competitive classes are at the highest levels of duelling, or 1vXing, or highly organised groups for that matter. If you believe ESO to be a competitive game, if you believe that class balancing should be judged wholly or largely by what you do, and what you do is mostly duelling or 1vXing or playing in premade BG groups, then our perspectives will forever be different. I believe that the perspectives of average and even beginner players are equally important.

With that said, I fear for sorc's identity being further eroded by Mist Form and the Arcanist class this year.

If Arcanist makes for a good ranged caster, I'll be so happy. Every class but Sorc sucks pretty hard at that right now, and Sorc is barely hanging on

Lucifer9th

@StaticWave
I try to replicate the build, i put the mundus lover, the race khajitt with the blue cp fighting finessse, arcane supremacy, deadly aim and master-at-arms and enable all possible buff, i did not reach the same value in max magicka, spell damage, penetration and crit damage :



i would like to know what is missing please because the stats you post looks good

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

I'm most certainly a good player on console. I have a YouTube. Go see for yourself. For the record I want sorcerer as a whole to be buffed. I'm merely just advocating for Shields more simply because it's a fact they are the weakest form of defence and most expensive. I'm not saying we need to make them gigantic like years ago. I do think 20% base increase for all Wards would be good enough. Remember this is from its base value to your probably only going to get maybe 2k on Hardened ward and maybe 1.5 on light armour Shield. That's only 3.5k maybe 4k extra in total value. That's not alot or ridiculously op. That could potentially be one crit Vigor tick extra in strength in other words. Shield 100% need a cost reduction at minimum, why they are so expensive is beyond my comprehensive ability. Some of our passives need reworking. That's literally it. Other morph of ward could be a burst heal for non shield builds or even hybrid stam sorcs. I'm all for buffs as whole to the class. But out of ALL the styles of play Shields are without a doubt THEE weakest which is why I'm asking for a semi reasonable buff. I've seen people ask for major breach, major protection no ramping cost of streak, no caps on wards. Just one of those would be stronger than what I'm suggesting. Which is basically one extra crit vigour tick size but on wards (Remember you would have too cast 2 wards to get that strength) and a reduction in cost, few passive reworks. Nothing absolutely huge.

I am ok with reducing shield cost so you can invest in more damage, but I don't think increasing the size is a good idea. You can already have a 20k+ shield by stacking Hardened + Dampen while having a decent HP pool for magsorc. Increasing that value to 25k is too much. That makes it impossible to burst you down if you are a decent player who reapplies shields correctly.

The cost reduction direction is better out of the two.

Are you able to kill a decent nb, dk or even ice warden who applies defense correctly ? Why does only sorc have to die then lol

What’s the point in even playing a class lol

I have given up lol and can’t really argue this.

At this point I am waiting for the arcanist class which I am sure will be overbuffed. Players will be ok with it coz it’s new and not a mag sorc

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

@AdamLAD You can find me in this clip:

https://youtu.be/oeBxlh8KZao

I was doing a 4v4 against a top tier small scale guild on PC NA 5 years ago. You could see my magsorc in the video under the name Static Wave.

So yes, I’ve played and mained a pure magsorc for quite a while before transitioning to stam. I didn’t transition to stamsorc because it’s better (it was worse than magsorc). I did it because I prefer playing stam more.

I think I know enough about sorc as a class to give my input here. You guys don’t have to agree with me, but if you’re gonna doubt my credibility, just ask any OG PC players and they know who I am lol

I certainly don’t doubt your credibility.

But which are the OG PC players who still play ?
When you find the answer to that you will find the answer to this post’s title

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

And I can hit a decent player for the same values, when they aren't running meta resistances or they let their buffs drop lmao. But that's not the competitive scene we live in.

@MetallicMonk

Can you please explain to this man that 10k frags aren't the norm in a competitive scene.

Also drop your stats if you don't mind, I'm curious.

I can also drop his stats for you since I asked him what he ran while arguing with you and other sorc mains on the forums.

He has 41.5k mag, 5k spell damage, 40% crit rate, 81% crit damage and crit healing, and 14k pen before Major Breach (20k with Breach). He also has 1.8k mag and stam recovery fully buffed.

He’s using these abilities:

Front Bar: Crushing Shock, Frag, Hardened, Magelight, Streak, Energy Overload

Back Bar: Vigor, Curse, Dark Conversion, Crit Surge, Ele Sus

So like I said, he’s adapted and used 2 HoTs + 1 shield to fix the class’ weakness. He also takes advantage of the crit damage meta and builds for more crit damage instead of the usual max magicka.
Since he has a decent amount of crit healing and crit chance, he’s also crit healing for a good amount.

The way he plays is half magsorc/half stamsorc. He still uses Hardened as his main defense because he’s used to the playstyle, but he also plays like a stamsorc by using HoTs and kiting a lot to heal up.

These are all his words. You can wait for him to answer here, or you can join the discord server and ask him. He will tell you the same thing.

Where is the defense coming from ?
Vigor and rallying cry ?

Which other class which make better use of the above ? Oh wait, literally everyone else