Yes, people are leaving, and yes, it's because of this patch

radiostar · July 2022

After reading the patch notes, I just presumed that Z was beginning its planned sunset of the game.
Then I heard an ad on one of my comedy podcasts for ESO touting 20million accounts to play with. So I guess they really think this is going to make the game great again!

peacenote · July 2022

Kusto wrote: »

The top 0.0001% cant do some trifectas anymore, awww. The game will be fine for the rest. Most of the playerbase doesn't even do any vet content but being over dramatic here for some reason.

If you're going to say "0.0001%" and "the rest" and then "most" it might be nice if you referred to the source of this data. Setting aside that the assumed type of players to be impacted is incorrect, and has been proven by some with PTS testing, what really concerns me about your comment is the "awww" which, if I'm interpreting it correctly, means you don't care about the impacted players.

I'm actually going to go and quote MYSELF from a different thread:

ZOS pits the community against itself by requesting feedback and then failing to acknowledge or address it. In the silence, community members take it upon themselves to assume the underlying reasons for changes, when ZOS neither confirms or denies theories or questions.

And, oh look. This is exactly what's happening again.

In my humble opinion, every single player in this community should be united in concern about the proposed upcoming changes, and the amount of people voicing that they will or may quit, regardless of whether it impacts them directly. Both U33 and U35 have generated unprecedented levels of unhappiness (if one uses the amount of posts and reactions as a gauge) and this is NOT GOOD for an MMORPG.

The fact that you might have certain negative impressions of end game players or PvP'ers or content creators or any section of the player base is a red herring. The fact that you might be against carries is a red herring. The fact that there may be some players overreacting or making statements without even reading the PTS contents or testing is a red herring.

What's NOT a red herring is that lots and lots of people have taken the time to give ZOS thoughtful feedback and we've received nothing back but snarky comments on Twitter and and a vague "hey don't forget we're still on PTS" post... which, if you've been here a while, basically means "no major changes." Turning on ourselves is the WORST thing we can do as it muddies the waters and makes it look as if the silence is justified and it's the community's fault. In fact I think one of the headlines for the gaming AwA article was something like "players can't agree on achievements" when a large portion of the playerbase would have been happy if only a few more inclusive adjustments were made. Why can't we all agree that this level unhappiness is a red flag for our community, period, and we'd like ZOS to release changes and communicate in a way that's less destructive?

Elsonso · July 2022

radiostar wrote: »

After reading the patch notes, I just presumed that Z was beginning its planned sunset of the game.
Then I heard an ad on one of my comedy podcasts for ESO touting 20million accounts to play with. So I guess they really think this is going to make the game great again!

ESO is a Revolving Door of new players joining and seasoned players tossing in the Towel of Frustration.

siddique · July 2022

Kusto wrote: »

No one's leaving. Some maybe temporarily, but will return once realize that they overreacted. Don't forget that half of the players in forums are console players and have no access to pts. PC players panicked also at first but many have calmed down after actually testing not just on dummy but also actual content. It's not as bad as you read from the patch notes. All content that you currently do you will be also able to do after the patch. I get that the notes freaked out alot of people but until you actually test the content you shouldn't spread the doom and gloom.

Incorrect. People who have actually tested the content have proven how midtier groups will be adversely affected, how recent content tris will become impossible for everyone but maybe 2 teams. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Holycannoli · July 2022

Kusto wrote: »

No one's leaving. Some maybe temporarily, but will return once realize that they overreacted. Don't forget that half of the players in forums are console players and have no access to pts. PC players panicked also at first but many have calmed down after actually testing not just on dummy but also actual content. It's not as bad as you read from the patch notes. All content that you currently do you will be also able to do after the patch. I get that the notes freaked out alot of people but until you actually test the content you shouldn't spread the doom and gloom.

I haven't seen a content creator yet say that this is an overreaction. They're in fact predicting that this will hit the average/casual player harder than the endgame player. They're even predicting it will hit enough endgame players that trials groups will be few and far between, or will simply disband.

This isn't an overreaction when the players that are most knowledgeable about the game are predicting this.

Necrotech_Master · July 2022

peacenote wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

The top 0.0001% cant do some trifectas anymore, awww. The game will be fine for the rest. Most of the playerbase doesn't even do any vet content but being over dramatic here for some reason.

If you're going to say "0.0001%" and "the rest" and then "most" it might be nice if you referred to the source of this data. Setting aside that the assumed type of players to be impacted is incorrect, and has been proven by some with PTS testing, what really concerns me about your comment is the "awww" which, if I'm interpreting it correctly, means you don't care about the impacted players.

I'm actually going to go and quote MYSELF from a different thread:

ZOS pits the community against itself by requesting feedback and then failing to acknowledge or address it. In the silence, community members take it upon themselves to assume the underlying reasons for changes, when ZOS neither confirms or denies theories or questions.

And, oh look. This is exactly what's happening again.

In my humble opinion, every single player in this community should be united in concern about the proposed upcoming changes, and the amount of people voicing that they will or may quit, regardless of whether it impacts them directly. Both U33 and U35 have generated unprecedented levels of unhappiness (if one uses the amount of posts and reactions as a gauge) and this is NOT GOOD for an MMORPG.

The fact that you might have certain negative impressions of end game players or PvP'ers or content creators or any section of the player base is a red herring. The fact that you might be against carries is a red herring. The fact that there may be some players overreacting or making statements without even reading the PTS contents or testing is a red herring.

What's NOT a red herring is that lots and lots of people have taken the time to give ZOS thoughtful feedback and we've received nothing back but snarky comments on Twitter and and a vague "hey don't forget we're still on PTS" post... which, if you've been here a while, basically means "no major changes." Turning on ourselves is the WORST thing we can do as it muddies the waters and makes it look as if the silence is justified and it's the community's fault. In fact I think one of the headlines for the gaming AwA article was something like "players can't agree on achievements" when a large portion of the playerbase would have been happy if only a few more inclusive adjustments were made. Why can't we all agree that this level unhappiness is a red flag for our community, period, and we'd like ZOS to release changes and communicate in a way that's less destructive?

100%, ive always looked at the patches as stuff coming from zos, other players have nothing to do with it, zos may try to include in requests, but they almost always botch the implementation of the requests

from what happened with AWA that is certainly the case, i liked having acct achievements, although i would have maybe preferred acct achievements in the collection menu and then still have per character ones

the current PTS changes though, i dont see anyone really liking these changes unless the person is absolutely clueless how it will affect them

on the current pts:

light attack nerf - fine, can deal with it
heavy attack nerf - probably too heavy handed but can also deal with it
dot durations - fine, longer dots would help simplify rotations and sustain
decreasing dot/hot tick rate - absolutely terrible, especially for hots (dots could be fine if they didnt nerf the dmg too)
nerfing dot/hot per tick values - absolutely horrendous especially now they are ticking slower

possible resolutions

2 sec tick rate for dots would only work if the dot tick dmg was tripled from where it currently sits
heals should only be 1 sec ticks because 2 sec is a really long break between heal ticks when incoming dmg is not limited to once per 2 sec

me personally i find the hot/dot nerfs to be the most severe and impactful change

MECHA_STREISAND · July 2022

I took a break just before High Isle because there was barely anyone in-game and planned to come back after the DLC release when things picked up.

Things didn't pick up.

I started playing in 2020 and put in nearly 3k hours, so am a new-ish player who loved the game. I'm an officer in our guild, one of our top DDs, and was really active in the discord, and here's a common theme I noticed:

Every time ZoS make these huge balance changes, there is a period of months afterwards where players are asking for help with re-building their characters. "What CP do I run" / "Is this set still OK?" / "How should I change my rotation" / "why has my DPS gone down so much" etc etc are so so common and me and the other hard-ish-core DDs would spend a lot of time trying to help people get their heads round it.

These people are super keen players, but have other life commitments that mean they can't put in the massive amount of time and effort required to process these huge changes and perform well. They need help from people like us, so people like us need to still be interested in the game.

I am not interested in the game anymore.

This patch has 100% killed it for me.

Making endgame content even harder for people like us was not a smart move.

So basically, newer players who are super keen to improve are going to find themselves without guidance from more experienced players who understand the complexities of doing damage effectively. They're going to struggle to improve.

Massive changes like this are so disruptive, and IMO as a purely endgame PVE player chasing achievements, they SUCK the life out of the game.

So yeah I'm out too.

starkerealm · July 2022

Elsonso wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

After reading the patch notes, I just presumed that Z was beginning its planned sunset of the game.
Then I heard an ad on one of my comedy podcasts for ESO touting 20million accounts to play with. So I guess they really think this is going to make the game great again!

ESO is a Revolving Door of new players joining and seasoned players tossing in the Towel of Frustration.

The problem is, this time, it hits the newbies as well, and makes the onboarding experience suck. Cut off the people coming in the door, and the whole thing starts to fall apart.

geekboy09 · July 2022

i havent logged in since tuesday. no desire to anytime soon

Ragnaroek93 · July 2022

Steam charts are down to 18k peak players right now, it hasn't been this low since 2018. Yep, it's pretty obvious that people aren't happy with the work of the dev team. ZOS treats their fanbase as their opponent at this point, giving feedback feels like a complete waste of time.

Belegnole · July 2022

I may tough it out, but my group is looking at other games. These are players who have actually been trying to get better, grind gear, etc. Now they are questioning why...

prof_doom · July 2022

Belegnole wrote: »

I may tough it out, but my group is looking at other games. These are players who have actually been trying to get better, grind gear, etc. Now they are questioning why...

I know the feeling. It's all going to depend on how much of my "core gaming" group decides to stick around.

Casdha · July 2022

I really do understand where folks are coming from. I've quit this game several times for various reasons. So far I always seem to find my way back. Over the last few years I've found the only way to enjoy things, at least for myself, is to keep it simple and quit trying to follow changes so on the characters that i still play I made gear that maximizes my base stats and damage. I chose skills to do a job and that job was to do as much content as possible without ever having to change ithem again or at least until I have to because what I used simply doesn't exist anymore.
Now I only play about 8 to 10 weeks a year and that is around chapter and story DLC times and I've not changed skills since rapids was changed and the last welcome addition (other than story content) was the wildhunt ring which finally replaced my long lost 45 second PvE version of on foot Rapids. The last time I changed gear was on one toon when New Moons was added.

So far it still works, I'm strong enough to be effective with friends and have some solo fun while I'm here and the one thing that keeps me away for longer periods is when I know I have to re-pick all of my CP again when I do come back.

Matteo11 · July 2022

MECHA_STREISAND wrote: »

I took a break just before High Isle because there was barely anyone in-game and planned to come back after the DLC release when things picked up.

Things didn't pick up.

I started playing in 2020 and put in nearly 3k hours, so am a new-ish player who loved the game. I'm an officer in our guild, one of our top DDs, and was really active in the discord, and here's a common theme I noticed:

Every time ZoS make these huge balance changes, there is a period of months afterwards where players are asking for help with re-building their characters. "What CP do I run" / "Is this set still OK?" / "How should I change my rotation" / "why has my DPS gone down so much" etc etc are so so common and me and the other hard-ish-core DDs would spend a lot of time trying to help people get their heads round it.

These people are super keen players, but have other life commitments that mean they can't put in the massive amount of time and effort required to process these huge changes and perform well. They need help from people like us, so people like us need to still be interested in the game.

I am not interested in the game anymore.

This patch has 100% killed it for me.

Making endgame content even harder for people like us was not a smart move.

So basically, newer players who are super keen to improve are going to find themselves without guidance from more experienced players who understand the complexities of doing damage effectively. They're going to struggle to improve.

Massive changes like this are so disruptive, and IMO as a purely endgame PVE player chasing achievements, they SUCK the life out of the game.

So yeah I'm out too.

This reflects my experience pretty well. ESO was already getting pretty bad with nerfs, and there was a new try hard grind every 3 months. Never a solid ground to stand on with your game knowledge or your gear.

So I got deep into FF14 for a couple years, spending time with a much more rewarding and competent MMO.

There is a lull in that content right now, but what does ESO have to lure me in?? A sad excuse for a Chapter (Triple Triad much?) and a patch thats about to wreck balance and waste a lot of people's work. (The entire content community)

I understand this was just Week 1 PTS, but you have to question devs who propose such a shockingly bad patch.

ApoAlaia · July 2022

Auldwulfe wrote: »

[snip]

Ultimately it will boil down to that.

The current message from the developers is very clear: Your fun will not get in the way of what we want to do with our game.

Hence the stress on 'provide us with empirical data' over 'tell us how the systems look and feel'.

Personally, after a slew of patches that felt like shifting sands which I struggled through constantly trying to adapt in order to 'have my fun' I had finally hit a point in the last six months or so where things were looking up.

I understood the mechanics of the content I was doing, I had a good grasp of the classes I was playing, our group was making progress and I was indeed having fun.

That is about to be reset in a few weeks.

If what it takes to carry on playing stamplar is to ditch jabs in favour of wrecking blow I just don't see myself making the transition. Warden is all but dead on the water too.

I'm not sure if I can take a hard reset thrown in the middle of our progress and still find enough fun to keep going.

[edited to remove quote]

Ishtarknows · July 2022

Kusto wrote: »

No one's leaving. Some maybe temporarily, but will return once realize that they overreacted. Don't forget that half of the players in forums are console players and have no access to pts. PC players panicked also at first but many have calmed down after actually testing not just on dummy but also actual content. It's not as bad as you read from the patch notes. All content that you currently do you will be also able to do after the patch. I get that the notes freaked out alot of people but until you actually test the content you shouldn't spread the doom and gloom.

A couple of things

I'm a console player. I can read and understand.
While I don't have access to the PTS I can see that having HoTs tick every 2 seconds while Lord Falgravn's damage ticks every 0.5 second is going to make my Dawnbringer prog (the thing I'm doing and can do right now on live) significantly harder. The DPS loss will now make the fight longer (that just maths, not a wild extrapolation) which will increase the damage DoT as per the mechanic which in turn means the heal check will escalate. DDs going upstairs to fight the torturers will only get a heal every 2 seconds (regen) while they're out of ground heals meaning they'll need to use self heals/shields or the group will have to use defensive tactics like barriers which in turn decrease overall dps and increase incoming damage.
So lower base heals + longer fights + higher incoming damage = healers having to manage sustaining spamming of burst heals while also speccing into maximising heals to make each tick count

The increase in cost to a healer's bread and butter burst heal (combat prayer) last patch is just the icing on the cake.

I fail to see the upsides here, it's all doom and gloom from my side. Please help me see the sun

GreatGildersleeve · July 2022

Kusto wrote: »

No one's leaving. Some maybe temporarily, but will return once realize that they overreacted. Don't forget that half of the players in forums are console players and have no access to pts. PC players panicked also at first but many have calmed down after actually testing not just on dummy but also actual content. It's not as bad as you read from the patch notes. All content that you currently do you will be also able to do after the patch. I get that the notes freaked out alot of people but until you actually test the content you shouldn't spread the doom and gloom.

Console player here. I can’t pts test but can use logic and reasoning, and I interpret the patch notes as something that will harm MY game. Since ESO advertises itself as a ‘play how you want’ kind of game, that’s not a good thing.

I do not know whether I will stay or leave when this mess drops for us console folk, but I can confirm I cancelled my auto renew sub Friday after Gilliam’s update. Money talks.

peacenote · July 2022

ApoAlaia wrote: »

The current message from the developers is very clear: Your fun will not get in the way of what we want to do with our game.

It sure does feel like this is the sentiment from pretty much anyone publicly speaking for ZOS these days.

You captured it very succinctly.

siddique wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

No one's leaving. Some maybe temporarily, but will return once realize that they overreacted. Don't forget that half of the players in forums are console players and have no access to pts. PC players panicked also at first but many have calmed down after actually testing not just on dummy but also actual content. It's not as bad as you read from the patch notes. All content that you currently do you will be also able to do after the patch. I get that the notes freaked out alot of people but until you actually test the content you shouldn't spread the doom and gloom.

Incorrect. People who have actually tested the content have proven how midtier groups will be adversely affected, how recent content tris will become impossible for everyone but maybe 2 teams. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Agreed. And it's beyond misinformation. The post you quoted is actually attempting to invalidate other's statements. It's one thing to say "I personally found that after testing on PTS it's not so bad" or even "My guild talked about disbanding but after playing together on PTS we decided to stick around." But Kusto (or anyone) can't possibly know that everyone else will be able to clear the same content and that no one's leaving. People have posted in forums and made videos and said "I'm done." Those people are not no one.

I'm seeing maybe four categories of players who fall in the impacted category:

Folks who have left already.
Folks who are rushing to beat content before the patch drops, planning to quit or take a break until the changes get reversed in future patches.
Folks who are pausing all activity to see the results of the entire PTS cycle, planning to quit if they don't see improvements.
Folks who aren't actively planning to leave, but who can clearly see how this is going to negatively impact the community, and will leave the game if all of their friends leave.

I'm in the last category. As far as I'm concerned the Crown Store doesn't exist for me now, save for the crowns I earn with my sub, until ZOS fixes what they broke with AwA. But I didn't leave then (although it's the most I ever thought about quitting and it has significantly decreased the priority logging in has for me now), and I won't leave because of a combat patch either. However, I'm here because of my friends. If I'm left by myself, I'm going to pull out a bunch of solo games I have purchased but never play because I really only have time for one game.

And to get back to the original theme of this thread, I want to add that this is the first patch where people I know and play with, personally, are leaving or planning on leaving if the changes aren't reversed. I have been here since the beginning and I've seen all the forum posts and natural ebb and flows in my guilds and in zone when people left (vMA weapons, Morrowind sustain nerfs, etc.) but this is the first time my actual friends have had enough. Maybe not all of them...but too many of them. They also are not no one. Not by a long shot.

siddique · July 2022

peacenote wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

The current message from the developers is very clear: Your fun will not get in the way of what we want to do with our game.

It sure does feel like this is the sentiment from pretty much anyone publicly speaking for ZOS these days. You captured it very succinctly.

siddique wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

No one's leaving. Some maybe temporarily, but will return once realize that they overreacted. Don't forget that half of the players in forums are console players and have no access to pts. PC players panicked also at first but many have calmed down after actually testing not just on dummy but also actual content. It's not as bad as you read from the patch notes. All content that you currently do you will be also able to do after the patch. I get that the notes freaked out alot of people but until you actually test the content you shouldn't spread the doom and gloom.

Incorrect. People who have actually tested the content have proven how midtier groups will be adversely affected, how recent content tris will become impossible for everyone but maybe 2 teams. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Agreed. And it's beyond misinformation. The post you quoted is actually attempting to invalidate other's statements. It's one thing to say "I personally found that after testing on PTS it's not so bad" or even "My guild talked about disbanding but after playing together on PTS we decided to stick around." But Kusto (or anyone) can't possibly know that everyone else will be able to clear the same content and that no one's leaving. People have posted in forums and made videos and said "I'm done." Those people are not no one.

I'm seeing maybe four categories of players who fall in the impacted category:
Folks who have left already.

Folks who are rushing to beat content before the patch drops, planning to quit or take a break until the changes get reversed in future patches.

Folks who are pausing all activity to see the results of the entire PTS cycle, planning to quit if they don't see improvements.

Folks who aren't actively planning to leave, but who can clearly see how this is going to negatively impact the community, and will leave the game if all of their friends leave.

I'm in the last category. As far as I'm concerned the Crown Store doesn't exist for me now, save for the crowns I earn with my sub, until ZOS fixes what they broke with AwA. But I didn't leave then (although it's the most I ever thought about quitting and it has significantly decreased the priority logging in has for me now), and I won't leave because of a combat patch either. However, I'm here because of my friends. If I'm left by myself, I'm going to pull out a bunch of solo games I have purchased but never play because I really only have time for one game.

And to get back to the original theme of this thread, I want to add that this is the first patch where people I know and play with, personally, are leaving or planning on leaving if the changes aren't reversed. I have been here since the beginning and I've seen all the forum posts and natural ebb and flows in my guilds and in zone when people left (vMA weapons, Morrowind sustain nerfs, etc.) but this is the first time my actual friends have had enough. Maybe not all of them...but too many of them. They also are not no one. Not by a long shot.

I feel exactly the same way. I started ESO in 2015. I have taken breaks in the past, have disagreed with stuff, but at this point, its just gotten plain ridiculous.

I cancelled my sub, and most of my friends did too. Its just sad because I literally only play 1 game too. So I am trying to get the most out of it before 22nd August.

Tbh, I feel disrespected by the devs. I sense their motivations are different, they make it look like something else and then do something entirely different.

ZOS_Icy · July 2022

Greetings,

We've removed some comments as they were non-constructive or supported spreading misinformation.

Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation: We do not tolerate the deliberate and malicious spreading of false info or conspiracy theories about ZeniMax Online Studios, its game(s), or its employees. This does not include honest mistakes; rather, this rule pertains to those who go out of their way to spread harmful or malicious rumors about ZeniMax Online Studios and its employees, or The Elder Scrolls Online.

Please make sure to keep commentary constructive and adhere to our community rules.

Thank you for your understanding.

Elsonso · July 2022

peacenote wrote: »

I'm seeing maybe four categories of players who fall in the impacted category:
Folks who have left already.

Folks who are rushing to beat content before the patch drops, planning to quit or take a break until the changes get reversed in future patches.

Folks who are pausing all activity to see the results of the entire PTS cycle, planning to quit if they don't see improvements.

Folks who aren't actively planning to leave, but who can clearly see how this is going to negatively impact the community, and will leave the game if all of their friends leave.

Even for someone planning to stick around, I would suggest doing content before Aug 22 in order to take advantage of the better combat before the Update comes out.

Matthew_Galvanus · July 2022

Elsonso wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I'm seeing maybe four categories of players who fall in the impacted category:
Folks who have left already.

Folks who are rushing to beat content before the patch drops, planning to quit or take a break until the changes get reversed in future patches.

Folks who are pausing all activity to see the results of the entire PTS cycle, planning to quit if they don't see improvements.

Folks who aren't actively planning to leave, but who can clearly see how this is going to negatively impact the community, and will leave the game if all of their friends leave.

Even for someone planning to stick around, I would suggest doing content before Aug 22 in order to take advantage of the better combat before the Update comes out.

but this really only applies to people who already have the gear necessary to meet the minimum dps requirements. I am not one of those people. In my defense, i gave up trying to keep up with the constant flux that forces me to restart my build from scratch with every major update.

Matthew_Galvanus · July 2022

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

We've removed some comments as they were non-constructive or supported spreading misinformation.
Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation: We do not tolerate the deliberate and malicious spreading of false info or conspiracy theories about ZeniMax Online Studios, its game(s), or its employees. This does not include honest mistakes; rather, this rule pertains to those who go out of their way to spread harmful or malicious rumors about ZeniMax Online Studios and its employees, or The Elder Scrolls Online.

Please make sure to keep commentary constructive and adhere to our community rules.

Thank you for your understanding.

you know, there'd be far less 'conspiracy theories and misinformation' if the developers made a conscientious effort to speak to us rather than at us. it gets to be majorly frustrating when you tell us you want our feedback, but then you go radio silent and dont engage with us, or show us how you are utilizing said feedback to make improvements to upcoming changes.

Casdha · July 2022

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

We've removed some comments as they were non-constructive or supported spreading misinformation.
Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation: We do not tolerate the deliberate and malicious spreading of false info or conspiracy theories about ZeniMax Online Studios, its game(s), or its employees. This does not include honest mistakes; rather, this rule pertains to those who go out of their way to spread harmful or malicious rumors about ZeniMax Online Studios and its employees, or The Elder Scrolls Online.

Please make sure to keep commentary constructive and adhere to our community rules.

Thank you for your understanding.

I will not re-post it being as it was removed but for the record the statement I made was 100% true. If I was trying to be malicious about it I would have named names and maybe even shared a screenshot of the conversation.

Pet · July 2022

Whiskey_JG wrote: »

I think its about time, we got some ACTUAL statistics, on how many active players there are in game.

a) How many of those have cleared a vet trial
b) how many of those cleared HMs of trials
c) how many of those cleared a trifecta

ideally for each trial exists. The 600 character figure for vRG HM is really worrying as that shows u how difficult that is. Keep in mind those are characters, NOT player accounts. I know 3 people that cleared vRG HM on at least 2 characters, so the number of players in reality is A LOT smaller than 600.

Who cares how many there are? The game shouldn't be balanced around people struggling to do vet non dlc content who sit in housing and rp bars most of their ESO lives.

boi_anachronism_ · July 2022

saar wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I agree about those who don’t want to improve. But it’s the tone of how you approach those who don’t know any better that makes one an elite toxic. Perhaps people could actually be constructive without snarky comments.

For some toxic casuals it really does not matter how you bring it up - they will bite your head off regardless.

True. But same for toxic elites. There are two sides to the coin. Let’s not forget that.

I find toxic elitists (elite defined as someone performing at the highest level) are quite rare in this game. I don't doubt they exist, but what most people encounter are toxic players who think they are elitist, but are actually mid tier players. Most genuinely elite players will give good and constructive advice to those who ask for it, and who have a good attitude.

I ran a Vrg with one of the few people on the PS/NA server who had planesbreaker. We were terrible, couldn't clear the first boss and he was so chill, just giving suggestions and trying to help us. Stuck it out for over an hour. The folks at my level, around 70k-80k, that's where I find it to be the hardest in terms of folks being "toxic".

PrincessOfThieves · July 2022

Pet wrote: »

Whiskey_JG wrote: »

I think its about time, we got some ACTUAL statistics, on how many active players there are in game.

a) How many of those have cleared a vet trial
b) how many of those cleared HMs of trials
c) how many of those cleared a trifecta

ideally for each trial exists. The 600 character figure for vRG HM is really worrying as that shows u how difficult that is. Keep in mind those are characters, NOT player accounts. I know 3 people that cleared vRG HM on at least 2 characters, so the number of players in reality is A LOT smaller than 600.

Who cares how many there are? The game shouldn't be balanced around people struggling to do vet non dlc content who sit in housing and rp bars most of their ESO lives.

It's actually a big problem that they seemingly try to compare people who aren't interested in rotations and group content and just play ESO the same way they played other TES games and people who like dungeons/raiding.
In that news post they kept talking about efficiency... But many players aren't even trying to minmax, they want a fun build, not a meta build. Hack the Minotaur's builds, for example, don't break dps records but people still like them because they're fun for them and they work for overland/bosses just fine.
I think that parts of the game should be balanced around their average demographics. So for example raids shoud be beatable for average raiders, this way more people would be able to participate and more will be interested in score pushing and stuff.That would improve the accessibility without breaking the game for everyone else.
P.S. And yes, pvp should also be balanced separately.

FrankonPC · July 2022

Nerhesi wrote: »

This gamed is doomed to the slow death it has been experiencing unless it makes changes like U35 and more.
The game is inaccessible - and it is not because of the changes - it is from the lack of changes.

For years, people have pointed out that this games combat system is the weakest component. Whether the lack of balance in classes, the silliness of general skill lines vs class identity, or the terrible bug-became feature that is weaving/cancelling... they have all been called out.

Unfortunately, any time changes are proposed, the vocal brigade that is the minority that play this game, speak out.

U35 is just where we were 2 years ago when light attacks didn't scale off wd and sd. This isn't a new change, it's a reversion.

Scalebreaker was a patch where rotations were so dumbed down and boring that every class felt the same. Players hated running the same casts of dots over and over again, despite the dps numbers in doing so. This change to lengthening dots is similar in that it's dumbing down rotations and making them boring.

Update 35 isn't impacting just top tier players like what was said, it's impacting everyone.

Maybe this slow death that you're speaking of is the constant changes and reversions of base game combat that we have constantly been dealing with, on top of the fact that the proposed changes don't accomplish what they want to accomplish.

Auldwulfe · July 2022

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Pet wrote: »

Whiskey_JG wrote: »

I think its about time, we got some ACTUAL statistics, on how many active players there are in game.

a) How many of those have cleared a vet trial
b) how many of those cleared HMs of trials
c) how many of those cleared a trifecta

ideally for each trial exists. The 600 character figure for vRG HM is really worrying as that shows u how difficult that is. Keep in mind those are characters, NOT player accounts. I know 3 people that cleared vRG HM on at least 2 characters, so the number of players in reality is A LOT smaller than 600.

Who cares how many there are? The game shouldn't be balanced around people struggling to do vet non dlc content who sit in housing and rp bars most of their ESO lives.

It's actually a big problem that they seemingly try to compare people who aren't interested in rotations and group content and just play ESO the same way they played other TES games and people who like dungeons/raiding.
In that news post they kept talking about efficiency... But many players aren't even trying to minmax, they want a fun build, not a meta build. Hack the Minotaur's builds, for example, don't break dps records but people still like them because they're fun for them and they work for overland/bosses just fine.
I think that parts of the game should be balanced around their average demographics. So for example raids shoud be beatable for average raiders, this way more people would be able to participate and more will be interested in score pushing and stuff.That would improve the accessibility without breaking the game for everyone else.
P.S. And yes, pvp should also be balanced separately.

Most of my builds are "concept adventurer" types -- I have my Champion Templar --- sword and board on front, with 2-handed on back - skill bars Binding Javelin, Dark Flare, Shielded Assault, Pierce Armor, and Hasty Prayer
Back bar is Binding Javelin, Dark Flare, Stampede, Brawler, and Hasty Prayer -- Ultimate on both is Crescent Sweep

Why? He is a Paladin - has NOT joined the Dark Brotherhood, never picked a thieves trove, or stole anything, etc.
Has taken to running around with Isobel, and we are both dressed in the Jephrine Paladin set, dyed white.
Could I make him better? Yes, and I am sure I may even get suggestions on it ..... but for now, I KNOW those skills, and as I get time, I will try others and rotate them in... if they fit, and I like them, they will get added --- on both, I use my 3 and 4 keys as my spammables - Dark Flare is there to enhance or "Bless" the weapons - Javelin is to pin things in place as needed, or drop something charging another player I can't get to -- Shielded Assault and Stampede are to get into the fight --- depending on single target or group, and so on. As I do provide tank for some people I run with, I will stay with the sword and shield and keep the taunts up .....
But, he is still a character I am working on - I got the champion purely because I hit level 50, and I had another character that had made champion all ready ......

I do plenty of damage, as all stat points are in Stamina -- I get my health from jewelry, and some added to armor, most of which is Divines, with some infused on the larger pieces .... runs about 35k on Stamina, which lets me keep up the pressure, and has just enough magic to keep the heal up as needed

However, as I said earlier, this new patch is going to be judged along the lines of "am I having fun?" - right now, I am.... am I meta ... nope..... but I have done Sunspire with one of my Sorcs --- and per the group I was in, I did enough to make a solid teammate. sadly, I don't get a lot of time to get in and play with groups as much as I would want. However, I do have my friends that I enjoy running with, and doing the delves and public dungeons ... one is my fiance', who doesn't do huge damage, as, like me, she is a grandparent, and she has arthritis in her hands .... the other is my stepmother - who, while young compared to my father, is still in her 60's.

We play this to adventure, have fun, and explore -- we are NOT your top tier meta players, and we build for fun and character, as opposed to being all about end-game.

Everything I am seeing, so far, though, makes me worry. Both of the people I run with, daily, are relying HEAVILY on light attacks as their primary means of damage, as they aren't heavy gamers -- and if they get nerfed too hard, they will stop playing. And if they go, I really won't have anywhere as much reason to stick around, either.....
And, as I pay for all 3 accounts, that would be a loss of that amount for the company.

Auldwulfe

MECHA_STREISAND · July 2022

mocap wrote: »

[snip]

This is a bit of a short-sighted opinion..

Just to qualify my previous post with an example:
We ran (note past tense) a raid group in our guild where the min DPS requirement was a 70k parse. With our guild being primarily social-focused it was quite difficult to get a full line-up in the first place.

We cleared all the non-vet trials to get everyones experience up and gel the team together, and spent a lot of time helping our lower-performing DDs improve. We cleared all the vet trials next, then started some vet HM and +1s. Then a DD and healer had to leave the group.

We bumped the DPS requirement up to 75k at first but couldn't find anyone in our guild to replace them. Most of the DDs in our guild were around 50k and still struggling with the big changes from the previous patch, so with our raid team looking unsteady we had to borrow people from another guild. We tried and failed VCR+1 a few times, tried VKA HM a few times, then people started getting frustrated at how hard the content was and our struggle to clear it, and another DD left, followed by two more. Replacing them was impossible, so we put the group on hiatus until we could train up replacements from our guild.

That was about 4 months ago.

So no, this patch doesnt just affect those who can do the vet HM WTF trials, it affect those who cant do them. I'd say we were around the 20th percentile when it comes to raid groups, if that. Half our DDs were 110-120k but the others were 70-80k which is certainly not elite standards. The DDs that can even be bothered to try parsing on PTS now are around 15-20% lower than before - tell me how that helps close the gap for people like us who were already struggling?

The best we ever managed on VCR+1 was wiping at 2% and we had sweated for weeks to achieve that - that was with DPS creep at its absolute maximum! With even 10% less damage we have absolutely no chance, so this is game over for us. As a group we have absolutely nothing left to do, because we've done all the raids we can do, and the ones we were gunning for are going to be impossible to achieve. They were hard enough already.

[edited to remove quote]