ZOS - hi we're going to fundamentally change how this entire game works because we want to simplify buff and debuff management, that way players can focus on the action on the screen!!!!!

Also ZOS - here's a set that removes 2 random buffs from you every 2 seconds. Which buffs? I DONT KNOW I GUESS YOU'LL HAVE TO KEEP YOUR EYES GLUED TO A COMPLETE LIST OF 20+ BUFFS YOUR CHARACTER NEEDS AT ALL TIMES TO BE EFFECTIVE AND INSTANTLY RECOGNIZE THE GRAPHICAL ICON TO IDENTIFY THE EXACT BUFF REMOVED SO YOU CAN REBUFF IT MAYBE

Trust us. It'll be fun.

Please remove this set and put the cleanse effect into Negate, thank you.

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

React wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

But it's not going to stop the tank meta.
With DPS down 10-30% across the board, there's no reason not to just go full turtle, knowing that people will never be able to kill you now.

You can strip all the buffs you want, but 7pc heavy reinforced is still gonna be there at the end.

I can't speak for other builds or combos, but our duo bomb setup should have even higher DPS in U35. Every build can still do damage if you build for it, but it just won't be easy mode like it was with Oakensoul or Savage Werewolf or busted MagDK. If you've spent any time bombing, you'd also know that a sliver of HP is what separates a failed bomb from a 10+ teamwipe. Dispelling either a major evasion or major resolve buff would have made all the difference.

Why are you speaking about bombing when this set is a global cooldown and not per target? It literally makes no sense at all to use this on a bomber, and it makes no sense at all to think about this set in the context of bombing when the largest issue is going to be this set in xvx or xv1 scenarios.

You will continually have your buffs stripped by players that do not care about doing anything other than just that. You will be punished for having good uptimes on your buffs by having to recast them constantly. You will be punished for relying on potions like you have for the past 8 years, by having those buffs removed and becoming inaccessible for another 30+ seconds.

If dispel sets were a mechanic at launch, the game would have been built with them in mind. This is not something that can work in the current version of ESO. It is going to destroy the PVP experience for anyone who likes to try to fight outnumbered.

As long as it can apply on multiple targets in an AOE, it is a bombing set because it randomly removes at least 1 major and 1 minor buff from every member of the entire zerg clump. I would actually buff this set to remove the same number of buffs as the number of targets affected, to instantly strip optimized groups of all 10+ major/minor buffs too. This would make it fairer for solo players and small scalers vs being used the other way around by Xv1s. Frankly 1vX has not really been happening for a long time now so I'm not sure how this set could kill it any further.

As I said, it is a global cooldown and not a per target cooldown, and therefore does not apply in an AOE to everything you hit.

I don't know how you think this could benefit 1vX. Running this would be a terrible idea solo. It is almost exclusively effective in Xv1 scenarios.

This set is an absolute joke in an mmo that does not have an actual interactive mechanism for purging, cleansing and buffing strategically.

Managing your own buffs is an automated experience, that happens in the backround when you are paying your build normally. Purging debuffs is a blanket mechanism that you simply activate when it's up to remove a set collection debuffs. There is no engaging interaction with this system in eso because it is a burden entirely on the user end who is doing the buffing and purging.

There is no interesting decision making or counterplay between a player with this set on and a player simply having to spend more GCDs reapplying his buffs, that he is going to have to track which ones are being removed.

Its burdensome and automated without any interesting depth.

React wrote: »

Zski wrote: »

One of the most interesting sets they've made in a long time. Buff management and sustain is the core of a LOT of pvp games that operate on similar principles to ESO - they all have antihealing, and they all have debuffing. GW2, a pvp game arguably MORE centered around buffs in its premise then ESO could ever hope to be, has a ton of "boon strips". ESO has never particularly had either boonstrip or real accessible antiheal, for some reason.

It should've.

I would say the timer needs to be lengthened considerably to make this a Counterplay instead of a Strategy, but ways to purge some of the absurd buffs obtainable in this game (and actual ways to mitigate the patently absurd healing/crosshealing) are both things ESO PvP was long overdue for. You guys at least got one set that does one of them.

Doesn't even touch the most patently absurd buffs in the game, like Clever, Balorgh, or even Rallying Cry's impen. If anything everything about this set except the timer is *underwhelming*.

I find it funny that you mentioned clever and balorgh as "patently absurd buffs", but not things like ironblood or pariah.

The problem with a set like this is that ESO's gameplay has been entirely built around the buffs available to you and your ability to maintain them. Costs are tied to duration and effectiveness, damage is built around what mitigation is available, healing is balanced around the stats you can achieve with buffs, etc. You build your sustain based on how frequentley you need to cast your buffs and other abilities. Potions are on a 40 second cooldown and provide crucial buffs to everyone, such as major regens and for some, weapon/spell power and weapon/spell crit.

Even if this set had a 10 second cooldown, it would fundamentally break the way PVP combat works. If they wanted to add a "dispel" effect to the game, it would be more suited for something like a 300+ cost ultimate where you remove all of a target's effects, or all of the effects in an area similar to what negate does. Having it on a 5 piece set, with a two second cooldown, is total absurdity and shows a complete lack of experience or foresight on the side of zenimax.

Ironblood is currently being reworked to Major buffs, and is therefore purgable as far as I can tell. Pariah is also absurd, yes. That wasn't an exhaustive list in the primary post, it was literally the default nonOakensoul build +/- Balorghs, which has been one of the most overperformong Monster sets for pvp since inception. You can go throw a rock in content-creator-land and hit a Clever/Rally/Magma or Balorghs build, of which only magma is purgable by Nocturnals. Seemed like an easy thing to bring up. Not that deep.

ESO has been built on the premise that buffs are largely inviolate. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, and the fact that ESO is one of the only places where this is true in its general domain hints that it probably isn't.

2s is definitely too good for how easily accessible it is. I do not agree it needs to be an ult. There probably SHOULD be an ult that strips a single target deep and does something with that, and another that does it shallow but wide, but I do not believe all strips have to be. You seem to and that's fine. We disagree.

Sometimes you're going to see someone in Nocturnals and they're going to spend a whole five piece to make sure you lose a couple buffs every (if it was correctly adjusted) probably 7-10 seconds. They gave up an entire set to do so. If you can dedicate say, Spell Power Cure or Olorime to giving yourself a buff on demand, not sure why someone can't equivalently invest to conditionally deny you some of them some of the time. Interaction is good. Goldfishing isn't.

I guess if you really wanted to punish purgers for some reason, just add the inverse of whatever they purge to the wearer. Basically narrows it down to specialty builds.

Off the top of my head:
All damage proc sets
All flat stat sets
Slotted buffs: (
Savagery from FG/MG/Caut
Prot from Flare
Minor prot from Rewind morph
)
Balorghs
Clever
Rally
Stuhns
Pariah / Brass / armor stack sets
Armor Master
Rallying Cry
Transmutation
Questionable if Serpents is even hit as it's a unique effect that lasts as long as a debuff is true
Powerful Assault
Arena weapon buffs
New 369 spell damage proc set from high isle afaik
Vampire undeath
Vampire stealth wdsd buff
Empower
Regen sets that aren't Wretched Vitality (unfort)
Immovability

Is Magma purgable? I literally don't know, I don't remember if it's a self named unique buff or not. Call it purgable I guess.

Those first two entries are doing a LOT of heavy lifting and are chock full of things. Make it 7-10s and every once in awhile some guy is gonna puncture you and eat your class minor (that you can probably immediately get back just by playing the game) and a random major out of the billions you probably have stacked on your toon, while not ever hitting anything above and probably a ton more. If you get a bunch of people on you, then a group of people that decided they wanted to collectively kill a single powerful enemy by making them less powerful got to do that, and I'm not sure the one powerful enemy gets to outvote them. Avoid them or run, I guess.

Only thing bad about the set is 2s.

Glhf in Cyro

People really defending this set despite the fact that Ele drain can do both of what this set does for literally 0 cost and from 40m+ away.

This is what the set NEEDS to solve, not robbing solos of their precious buffs. ZOS please make it scale to multiple targets.

Zski wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

People really defending this set despite the fact that Ele drain can do both of what this set does for literally 0 cost and from 40m+ away.

At which point theyre contributing...what? 2 buff strips every 2s and like 475 left click damage?

Alright.

---

Thought on it overnight and at 10s this set wouldn't even be useable. 4-7 seems solid. Won't even feel it unless you have multiple Nocturnals on you in which case...i dunno man, it's a bunch of people vs. an singular people. Seems like you're supposed to be on the back foot there, and feels like a lot of resistance to this set is that we've finally reached a point where good players have to actually consider if they *can* go dive into 6 people they don't know the names of, and actually need an exit strategy if it turns out they can't and their buffs start getting stripped to the bone. This is new and upsetting, I get that, but it's also how like every other game in the genre (and a lot of other pvp genres) tends to function.

I do like the idea of debuffs on the wearer in order to specialize the build to specific magplars and xcros, but things probably fine even without it. Sometimes someone is gonna tap you and you're gonna lose your potion buff. Sometimes youre gonna grim focus them in the face for 12k. Cyro happens.

You're right that you will probably get clapped a lot outnumbered, but that doesn't change the fact it creates mindless gameplay that makes outnumbered play pretty impossible. Forget knowing a rotation, your rotation will basically be meaningless if people can just undo that with their basic rotation in pvp. It's already hard enough to kill people when they have healbots wearing earthgore, now you won't even be able to put down decent damage on a single person because of some guy sniping you 30 meters away or ele draining you 30 meters away.

That's the problem here, they don't even need to try very hard with a set like this. Sets that drastically ruin the flow of combat for a player should not be allowed in this game, especially with how it interacts with zerg gameplay

To add onto what I said before. Sets like this can basically dictate what you're going to be forced to wear in PVP. People are gonna have to be forced to run chudan, rattlecage or oakensoul on almost every build just to not be stripped away of any feasible damage in PvP.

People love to scream build diversity but sets like this just make it impossible to play around with sets because now your entire playstyle is gonna be limited or gutted.

Spell power potion users are now losing access to their sorcery because of it. Clever alchemist users are now going to be severely hindered because their potions are already linked to 1 bar as is and now they're potion buffs are going to be severely limited even more. Daedric trickery can basically be entirely dispelled by people if they fight multiple people using this, making trickery effectively useless when getting outnumbered by people using this set.

So on and so forth, sets like this COMPLETELY ruin the flow of combat and severely guts usage of so many sets. It's effectively stronger than a 5 piece and I don't see why it would not completely destroy PVP if it goes live in current iteration

Zski wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

People really defending this set despite the fact that Ele drain can do both of what this set does for literally 0 cost and from 40m+ away.

At which point theyre contributing...what? 2 buff strips every 2s and like 475 left click damage?

Alright.

---

Thought on it overnight and at 10s this set wouldn't even be useable. 4-7 seems solid. Won't even feel it unless you have multiple Nocturnals on you in which case...i dunno man, it's a bunch of people vs. an singular people. Seems like you're supposed to be on the back foot there, and feels like a lot of resistance to this set is that we've finally reached a point where good players have to actually consider if they *can* go dive into 6 people they don't know the names of, and actually need an exit strategy if it turns out they can't and their buffs start getting stripped to the bone. This is new and upsetting, I get that, but it's also how like every other game in the genre (and a lot of other pvp genres) tends to function.

I do like the idea of debuffs on the wearer in order to specialize the build to specific magplars and xcros, but things probably fine even without it. Sometimes someone is gonna tap you and you're gonna lose your potion buff. Sometimes youre gonna grim focus them in the face for 12k. Cyro happens.

you can have these benefits by having dmg and high hitting combinations. you dont have to remove buffs to make outnumbered fights difficult. they're already difficult. there's already debuffs that exist in the game that counteract buffs. major and minor fracture for resolve, cost increase poisons and other sets for recoveries, etc. this STACKS on those things.

if you disagree that it's broken, that's fine. think of it like this...is it fun/engaging gameplay to lose all of your buffs in any outnumbered fight? if the counter to this set is to never be in an outnumbered fight...is that good for the game to have everyone stack tighter than they are now?

outnumbered fights are already difficult because it's fighting more dmg, more ultimates, more healing, etc. they dont also need a set that makes you naked for free(imo.