The Nocturnal's Ploy set should not be allowed to enter the game

HiImRex

ZOS - hi we're going to fundamentally change how this entire game works because we want to simplify buff and debuff management, that way players can focus on the action on the screen!!!!!

Also ZOS - here's a set that removes 2 random buffs from you every 2 seconds. Which buffs? I DONT KNOW I GUESS YOU'LL HAVE TO KEEP YOUR EYES GLUED TO A COMPLETE LIST OF 20+ BUFFS YOUR CHARACTER NEEDS AT ALL TIMES TO BE EFFECTIVE AND INSTANTLY RECOGNIZE THE GRAPHICAL ICON TO IDENTIFY THE EXACT BUFF REMOVED SO YOU CAN REBUFF IT MAYBE

Trust us. It'll be fun.

CameraBeardThePirate

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

React wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

But it's not going to stop the tank meta.
With DPS down 10-30% across the board, there's no reason not to just go full turtle, knowing that people will never be able to kill you now.

You can strip all the buffs you want, but 7pc heavy reinforced is still gonna be there at the end.

I can't speak for other builds or combos, but our duo bomb setup should have even higher DPS in U35. Every build can still do damage if you build for it, but it just won't be easy mode like it was with Oakensoul or Savage Werewolf or busted MagDK. If you've spent any time bombing, you'd also know that a sliver of HP is what separates a failed bomb from a 10+ teamwipe. Dispelling either a major evasion or major resolve buff would have made all the difference.

Why are you speaking about bombing when this set is a global cooldown and not per target? It literally makes no sense at all to use this on a bomber, and it makes no sense at all to think about this set in the context of bombing when the largest issue is going to be this set in xvx or xv1 scenarios.

You will continually have your buffs stripped by players that do not care about doing anything other than just that. You will be punished for having good uptimes on your buffs by having to recast them constantly. You will be punished for relying on potions like you have for the past 8 years, by having those buffs removed and becoming inaccessible for another 30+ seconds.

If dispel sets were a mechanic at launch, the game would have been built with them in mind. This is not something that can work in the current version of ESO. It is going to destroy the PVP experience for anyone who likes to try to fight outnumbered.

As long as it can apply on multiple targets in an AOE, it is a bombing set because it randomly removes at least 1 major and 1 minor buff from every member of the entire zerg clump. I would actually buff this set to remove the same number of buffs as the number of targets affected, to instantly strip optimized groups of all 10+ major/minor buffs too. This would make it fairer for solo players and small scalers vs being used the other way around by Xv1s. Frankly 1vX has not really been happening for a long time now so I'm not sure how this set could kill it any further.

It cannot apply to multiple targets in AOE. 1 proc on 1 target every 2 seconds. It is a worthless set for bombing.

robpr

Please remove this set and put the cleanse effect into Negate, thank you.

HiImRex

React

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

React wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

But it's not going to stop the tank meta.
With DPS down 10-30% across the board, there's no reason not to just go full turtle, knowing that people will never be able to kill you now.

You can strip all the buffs you want, but 7pc heavy reinforced is still gonna be there at the end.

I can't speak for other builds or combos, but our duo bomb setup should have even higher DPS in U35. Every build can still do damage if you build for it, but it just won't be easy mode like it was with Oakensoul or Savage Werewolf or busted MagDK. If you've spent any time bombing, you'd also know that a sliver of HP is what separates a failed bomb from a 10+ teamwipe. Dispelling either a major evasion or major resolve buff would have made all the difference.

Why are you speaking about bombing when this set is a global cooldown and not per target? It literally makes no sense at all to use this on a bomber, and it makes no sense at all to think about this set in the context of bombing when the largest issue is going to be this set in xvx or xv1 scenarios.

You will continually have your buffs stripped by players that do not care about doing anything other than just that. You will be punished for having good uptimes on your buffs by having to recast them constantly. You will be punished for relying on potions like you have for the past 8 years, by having those buffs removed and becoming inaccessible for another 30+ seconds.

If dispel sets were a mechanic at launch, the game would have been built with them in mind. This is not something that can work in the current version of ESO. It is going to destroy the PVP experience for anyone who likes to try to fight outnumbered.

As long as it can apply on multiple targets in an AOE, it is a bombing set because it randomly removes at least 1 major and 1 minor buff from every member of the entire zerg clump. I would actually buff this set to remove the same number of buffs as the number of targets affected, to instantly strip optimized groups of all 10+ major/minor buffs too. This would make it fairer for solo players and small scalers vs being used the other way around by Xv1s. Frankly 1vX has not really been happening for a long time now so I'm not sure how this set could kill it any further.

As I said, it is a global cooldown and not a per target cooldown, and therefore does not apply in an AOE to everything you hit.

I don't know how you think this could benefit 1vX. Running this would be a terrible idea solo. It is almost exclusively effective in Xv1 scenarios.

WreckfulAbandon

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

As long as it can apply on multiple targets in an AOE, it is a bombing set because it randomly removes at least 1 major and 1 minor buff from every member of the entire zerg clump. I would actually buff this set to remove the same number of buffs as the number of targets affected, to instantly strip optimized groups of all 10+ major/minor buffs too. This would make it fairer for solo players and small scalers vs being used the other way around by Xv1s. Frankly 1vX has not really been happening for a long time now so I'm not sure how this set could kill it any further.

Nothing in the tooltip implies that the effect will apply as an AOE, it doesnt work that way nor would that be a healthy set to introduce. I really dont understand the logic of "I like OP things because only Im smart enough to maximize the benefit of them." Not only is it not at all true, (as we saw with Dark Convergence) its missing the forest for the trees.

exeeter702

This set is an absolute joke in an mmo that does not have an actual interactive mechanism for purging, cleansing and buffing strategically.

Managing your own buffs is an automated experience, that happens in the backround when you are paying your build normally. Purging debuffs is a blanket mechanism that you simply activate when it's up to remove a set collection debuffs. There is no engaging interaction with this system in eso because it is a burden entirely on the user end who is doing the buffing and purging.

There is no interesting decision making or counterplay between a player with this set on and a player simply having to spend more GCDs reapplying his buffs, that he is going to have to track which ones are being removed.

Its burdensome and automated without any interesting depth.

WanderLost

My question is does this still proc on reapplication? I.e does spamming ele drain every two seconds just keep purging or do you have to apply unique debuffs (or wait for them to run out before reapplying) to get the purge? If it’s the latter, it’s at least a little less broken as you’d have to build for multiple debuffs and, on the receiving end, having debuffs active would provide a little defence from purging in a way. Still a pretty bonkers set though.

Has anyone tested this yet?

Zski

React wrote: »

Zski wrote: »

One of the most interesting sets they've made in a long time. Buff management and sustain is the core of a LOT of pvp games that operate on similar principles to ESO - they all have antihealing, and they all have debuffing. GW2, a pvp game arguably MORE centered around buffs in its premise then ESO could ever hope to be, has a ton of "boon strips". ESO has never particularly had either boonstrip or real accessible antiheal, for some reason.

It should've.

I would say the timer needs to be lengthened considerably to make this a Counterplay instead of a Strategy, but ways to purge some of the absurd buffs obtainable in this game (and actual ways to mitigate the patently absurd healing/crosshealing) are both things ESO PvP was long overdue for. You guys at least got one set that does one of them.

Doesn't even touch the most patently absurd buffs in the game, like Clever, Balorgh, or even Rallying Cry's impen. If anything everything about this set except the timer is *underwhelming*.

I find it funny that you mentioned clever and balorgh as "patently absurd buffs", but not things like ironblood or pariah.

The problem with a set like this is that ESO's gameplay has been entirely built around the buffs available to you and your ability to maintain them. Costs are tied to duration and effectiveness, damage is built around what mitigation is available, healing is balanced around the stats you can achieve with buffs, etc. You build your sustain based on how frequentley you need to cast your buffs and other abilities. Potions are on a 40 second cooldown and provide crucial buffs to everyone, such as major regens and for some, weapon/spell power and weapon/spell crit.

Even if this set had a 10 second cooldown, it would fundamentally break the way PVP combat works. If they wanted to add a "dispel" effect to the game, it would be more suited for something like a 300+ cost ultimate where you remove all of a target's effects, or all of the effects in an area similar to what negate does. Having it on a 5 piece set, with a two second cooldown, is total absurdity and shows a complete lack of experience or foresight on the side of zenimax.

Ironblood is currently being reworked to Major buffs, and is therefore purgable as far as I can tell. Pariah is also absurd, yes. That wasn't an exhaustive list in the primary post, it was literally the default nonOakensoul build +/- Balorghs, which has been one of the most overperformong Monster sets for pvp since inception. You can go throw a rock in content-creator-land and hit a Clever/Rally/Magma or Balorghs build, of which only magma is purgable by Nocturnals. Seemed like an easy thing to bring up. Not that deep.

ESO has been built on the premise that buffs are largely inviolate. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, and the fact that ESO is one of the only places where this is true in its general domain hints that it probably isn't.

2s is definitely too good for how easily accessible it is. I do not agree it needs to be an ult. There probably SHOULD be an ult that strips a single target deep and does something with that, and another that does it shallow but wide, but I do not believe all strips have to be. You seem to and that's fine. We disagree.

Sometimes you're going to see someone in Nocturnals and they're going to spend a whole five piece to make sure you lose a couple buffs every (if it was correctly adjusted) probably 7-10 seconds. They gave up an entire set to do so. If you can dedicate say, Spell Power Cure or Olorime to giving yourself a buff on demand, not sure why someone can't equivalently invest to conditionally deny you some of them some of the time. Interaction is good. Goldfishing isn't.

I guess if you really wanted to punish purgers for some reason, just add the inverse of whatever they purge to the wearer. Basically narrows it down to specialty builds.

Off the top of my head:
All damage proc sets
All flat stat sets
Slotted buffs: (
Savagery from FG/MG/Caut
Prot from Flare
Minor prot from Rewind morph
)
Balorghs
Clever
Rally
Stuhns
Pariah / Brass / armor stack sets
Armor Master
Rallying Cry
Transmutation
Questionable if Serpents is even hit as it's a unique effect that lasts as long as a debuff is true
Powerful Assault
Arena weapon buffs
New 369 spell damage proc set from high isle afaik
Vampire undeath
Vampire stealth wdsd buff
Empower
Regen sets that aren't Wretched Vitality (unfort)
Immovability

Is Magma purgable? I literally don't know, I don't remember if it's a self named unique buff or not. Call it purgable I guess.

Those first two entries are doing a LOT of heavy lifting and are chock full of things. Make it 7-10s and every once in awhile some guy is gonna puncture you and eat your class minor (that you can probably immediately get back just by playing the game) and a random major out of the billions you probably have stacked on your toon, while not ever hitting anything above and probably a ton more. If you get a bunch of people on you, then a group of people that decided they wanted to collectively kill a single powerful enemy by making them less powerful got to do that, and I'm not sure the one powerful enemy gets to outvote them. Avoid them or run, I guess.

Only thing bad about the set is 2s.

Glhf in Cyro

FangOfTheTwoMoons

I do not have to reiterate what plenty of other competent players before me have said about this issue. Please ZOS, please listen to the players this time. This set should never make it to live. Throw away the entire concept and come up with something new.

It might be embarrassing to scrap a whole new idea but no one will blame you for it. In fact; the players will rejoice.

JustAGoodPlayer

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Small scalers shouldn't be worried. Zerglings won't run it, it's simply not their playstyle. It's a bombing set. Assuming this effect can proc multiple enemies simultaneously, you can remove major evasion, major resolve or major protection from zerg clumps coupled with VD/OO for the easiest bombs ever. Not like it was ever hard but this just makes it trivial.

Remember when dark convergence was introduced as a set that zergs should be afraid of? Yeah guess who was running amok with it? Zergs. That's like saying zergs aren't gonna abuse a set that literally disarms your enemy en masse. Of course they will and of course small scalers should be very afraid

Yeah but decent players can just block and move on. It's not like it ruins whatever you were doing. I've been asking for a set based or generic negate for a long time and this is the closest thing so far. I'm very interested to see how it plays out, especially in the upcoming tank meta thanks to healing/oakensoul nerfs.

"it doesn't ruin whatever you're doing" It kind of does? What about people reliant on spell power pots to get their sorcery because they don't have sorcery in class like necromancer? Do I just wait another 45 seconds now to get sorcery or am I now forced to use entropy as a requirement on that class.

People can and WILL run with this set if it goes live. Every other OP set ended up this way, give players an OP tool and they will ruin the fun by overrunning cyrodiil with it. It's been happening since 2017

Huh that first part was talking about dark convergence, which doesn't really affect anybody that's not zerging in the first place. Oakensoul blessed us with a 1 patch long damage meta but trust me it's going back to tank zergs in U35. They couldn't kill you even if you were naked without any buffs. You wouldn't be able to 1vX them either. Why wouldn't you give a chance to an item that clearly looks like it will be an overpowered tankbuster and zergbuster?

The reason i brought up DC is because it's a trend as with any OP set. If you introduce the idea of completely disarming or ruining the flow of combat, people are gonna meta hop and use it on everything in PVP.

And we have examples of this happening like dark convergence and these trends go back to 2017 with sloads dealing insane unblocking undodgeable oblivion damage, so on and so forth.

To say small scale players have nothing to worry about is asinine, people have been meta hopping sets like these for YEARS.

The reason we shouldn't give a chance is because it can and WILL ruin the flow of combat. Like I said before it can basically nullify your spell power or weapon power pots making them useless because they can just steal away the buffs you get from potions. Clever alchemist users beware because they have to save their potion usage for 1 bar and now their potion buffs are going to get yoinked away en masse by zergling players.

Players in this game like to sit on top of keeps and range spam you from the safety of their walls. You're telling me those wall campers aren't going to run this set and grief you by stealing your buffs while they never leave their safety zone of the wall ever? Same with battlegrounds, people in battle grounds sit on top of their spawn spamming ranged abilities at you from range.

This enables players to grief you with no risks involved

How is that any different from the 10+ bowsorcs and snipers and 1 shotters sitting inside their faction stack wailing on solos that's literally happening right now? Nothing stops zerglings abusing broken sets/mechanics except for the lack of skill that made them a zergling in the first place. Sure plenty of them run PB/DC but do they ever even get a kill? Every now and then there's a skilled player that just lacks the mentality to break from the zerg but you'd only feel embarrassed for them.

The #1 issue in Cyrodiil is lag. Can't do anything about that. #2 issue is tank meta. Without sets like dark convergerce, plaguebreak (and hopefully nocturnal's ploy), nobody dies. Just think back to that dreadful meta after acuity/proxy det nerf. I literally quit the game and many others did as well. Tank meta ruins the flow of combat. More specifically, it is anti-PVP. Anything that can prevent a tank meta, no matter how oppressive, will be healthy for whatever is left of Cyrodiil gameplay.

If a lot of classes can gank you and other classes do not have detect skills, invisiability is too OP and a tank meta is only counterplay because other classes has no other option - it do not look strange.

If tank will be possible to kill OK - do some thing with invisible skill, do some thing with fast running and sorcs streak !

Or what do you want ? People want to play class they take on start - it has no other option of counterplay this.

Game is bad balanced.

Player with invis can stay near you in all AOEs and dots and bleed - but you - can not see him ... .

It is the most strange thing i have ever see !

Lazerus

If this would be a Mythic that works as a counter to Oakensoul - fine with me.
Or if it would just stop the Buff for a few seconds? Even better.

But removing them in a game where we cant tell which buffs we have active? How about no?

AinSoph

People really defending this set despite the fact that Ele drain can do both of what this set does for literally 0 cost and from 40m+ away.

TechMaybeHic

Lol they always seem to do the opposite of their intentions. I totally want to be staring at a list of buffs and try to figure out which one drops every 2 seconds.

JustAGoodPlayer

Why not to make it like Remove all buffs and hots/shields with some 10 -15 - 20 or 30 seconds global calldown per target than ? )))

TechMaybeHic

So so you have to apply a new debuff, or as long as you hit with1? Either way, I think it's a bit crazy to cancel a buff at all and make someone have to watch. Even with addons, they might have to catch up as I think some are time based.

Only way I could see making this happen.somewhat fairly would be just have it suppress 1 buff for X seconds. That might be a lot of coding, and might as well just have it apply the corresponding debuff (defile to mending) of what's on the target. Then it's just a more direct effect, kynemarchers with a shorter CD, so it's OP in that sense even if it didn't outright remove a buff.

Edit: actually, even more beyond Kynmarcher as Kyn requires you to be within 8 meters

Cuddlypuff

This is what the set NEEDS to solve, not robbing solos of their precious buffs. ZOS please make it scale to multiple targets.

Einar_Hrafnarsson

Who even comes up with such bad ideas? Are the Devs really so thin on ideas that they have to break everything?

Sandman929

Maybe this set is to help us pass the time waiting 20 seconds before needing to refresh DOTs...we can just light attack and strip buffs off each other to fight the boredom

FrankonPC

A way to look at what this set is giving is to look at what it's debuffing as a buff for you.

Removing recovery buffs off pots ALONE is the strength of a 5 pc set, and the player will not get his recoveries back off potion cooldown.

Removing major resolve is the equivalent of a 5 pc dmg set, that you can ensure every 2 seconds.

Removing major brutality or sorcery is stronger than major cowardice in most situations.

On top of all of this, you get these benefits and more with a FREE cast skill every 2 seconds. It's counter-intuitive to how the game functions at its core and it just wouldnt really be beneficial to run buffs in pvp. On top of all of this, it's not fun game design to have to try and keep buffs up that are dropping every 2 seconds.

Sandman929

FrankonPC wrote: »

A way to look at what this set is giving is to look at what it's debuffing as a buff for you.

Removing recovery buffs off pots ALONE is the strength of a 5 pc set, and the player will not get his recoveries back off potion cooldown.

Removing major resolve is the equivalent of a 5 pc dmg set, that you can ensure every 2 seconds.

Removing major brutality or sorcery is stronger than major cowardice in most situations.

On top of all of this, you get these benefits and more with a FREE cast skill every 2 seconds. It's counter-intuitive to how the game functions at its core and it just wouldnt really be beneficial to run buffs in pvp. On top of all of this, it's not fun game design to have to try and keep buffs up that are dropping every 2 seconds.

I haven't seen it in action, but on console I'm sure it'll be a struggle just to identify what buff has been removed by squinting at the tiny buff pictures on my bar.

Zski

AinSoph wrote: »

People really defending this set despite the fact that Ele drain can do both of what this set does for literally 0 cost and from 40m+ away.

At which point theyre contributing...what? 2 buff strips every 2s and like 475 left click damage?

Alright.

---

Thought on it overnight and at 10s this set wouldn't even be useable. 4-7 seems solid. Won't even feel it unless you have multiple Nocturnals on you in which case...i dunno man, it's a bunch of people vs. an singular people. Seems like you're supposed to be on the back foot there, and feels like a lot of resistance to this set is that we've finally reached a point where good players have to actually consider if they *can* go dive into 6 people they don't know the names of, and actually need an exit strategy if it turns out they can't and their buffs start getting stripped to the bone. This is new and upsetting, I get that, but it's also how like every other game in the genre (and a lot of other pvp genres) tends to function.

I do like the idea of debuffs on the wearer in order to specialize the build to specific magplars and xcros, but things probably fine even without it. Sometimes someone is gonna tap you and you're gonna lose your potion buff. Sometimes youre gonna grim focus them in the face for 12k. Cyro happens.

xDeusEJRx

Zski wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

People really defending this set despite the fact that Ele drain can do both of what this set does for literally 0 cost and from 40m+ away.

At which point theyre contributing...what? 2 buff strips every 2s and like 475 left click damage?

Alright.

---

Thought on it overnight and at 10s this set wouldn't even be useable. 4-7 seems solid. Won't even feel it unless you have multiple Nocturnals on you in which case...i dunno man, it's a bunch of people vs. an singular people. Seems like you're supposed to be on the back foot there, and feels like a lot of resistance to this set is that we've finally reached a point where good players have to actually consider if they *can* go dive into 6 people they don't know the names of, and actually need an exit strategy if it turns out they can't and their buffs start getting stripped to the bone. This is new and upsetting, I get that, but it's also how like every other game in the genre (and a lot of other pvp genres) tends to function.

I do like the idea of debuffs on the wearer in order to specialize the build to specific magplars and xcros, but things probably fine even without it. Sometimes someone is gonna tap you and you're gonna lose your potion buff. Sometimes youre gonna grim focus them in the face for 12k. Cyro happens.

You're right that you will probably get clapped a lot outnumbered, but that doesn't change the fact it creates mindless gameplay that makes outnumbered play pretty impossible. Forget knowing a rotation, your rotation will basically be meaningless if people can just undo that with their basic rotation in pvp. It's already hard enough to kill people when they have healbots wearing earthgore, now you won't even be able to put down decent damage on a single person because of some guy sniping you 30 meters away or ele draining you 30 meters away.

That's the problem here, they don't even need to try very hard with a set like this. Sets that drastically ruin the flow of combat for a player should not be allowed in this game, especially with how it interacts with zerg gameplay

FrankonPC

Sandman929 wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

A way to look at what this set is giving is to look at what it's debuffing as a buff for you.

Removing recovery buffs off pots ALONE is the strength of a 5 pc set, and the player will not get his recoveries back off potion cooldown.

Removing major resolve is the equivalent of a 5 pc dmg set, that you can ensure every 2 seconds.

Removing major brutality or sorcery is stronger than major cowardice in most situations.

On top of all of this, you get these benefits and more with a FREE cast skill every 2 seconds. It's counter-intuitive to how the game functions at its core and it just wouldnt really be beneficial to run buffs in pvp. On top of all of this, it's not fun game design to have to try and keep buffs up that are dropping every 2 seconds.

I haven't seen it in action, but on console I'm sure it'll be a struggle just to identify what buff has been removed by squinting at the tiny buff pictures on my bar.

this is a great point. going to be tough to reapply buffs as well after they've dropped

xDeusEJRx

To add onto what I said before. Sets like this can basically dictate what you're going to be forced to wear in PVP. People are gonna have to be forced to run chudan, rattlecage or oakensoul on almost every build just to not be stripped away of any feasible damage in PvP.

People love to scream build diversity but sets like this just make it impossible to play around with sets because now your entire playstyle is gonna be limited or gutted.

Spell power potion users are now losing access to their sorcery because of it. Clever alchemist users are now going to be severely hindered because their potions are already linked to 1 bar as is and now they're potion buffs are going to be severely limited even more. Daedric trickery can basically be entirely dispelled by people if they fight multiple people using this, making trickery effectively useless when getting outnumbered by people using this set.

So on and so forth, sets like this COMPLETELY ruin the flow of combat and severely guts usage of so many sets. It's effectively stronger than a 5 piece and I don't see why it would not completely destroy PVP if it goes live in current iteration

sabresandiego_ESO

This set is really cool, introducing new game mechanics. I like the idea of it. The masses struggle with change

FrankonPC

Zski wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

People really defending this set despite the fact that Ele drain can do both of what this set does for literally 0 cost and from 40m+ away.

At which point theyre contributing...what? 2 buff strips every 2s and like 475 left click damage?

Alright.

---

Thought on it overnight and at 10s this set wouldn't even be useable. 4-7 seems solid. Won't even feel it unless you have multiple Nocturnals on you in which case...i dunno man, it's a bunch of people vs. an singular people. Seems like you're supposed to be on the back foot there, and feels like a lot of resistance to this set is that we've finally reached a point where good players have to actually consider if they *can* go dive into 6 people they don't know the names of, and actually need an exit strategy if it turns out they can't and their buffs start getting stripped to the bone. This is new and upsetting, I get that, but it's also how like every other game in the genre (and a lot of other pvp genres) tends to function.

I do like the idea of debuffs on the wearer in order to specialize the build to specific magplars and xcros, but things probably fine even without it. Sometimes someone is gonna tap you and you're gonna lose your potion buff. Sometimes youre gonna grim focus them in the face for 12k. Cyro happens.

you can have these benefits by having dmg and high hitting combinations. you dont have to remove buffs to make outnumbered fights difficult. they're already difficult. there's already debuffs that exist in the game that counteract buffs. major and minor fracture for resolve, cost increase poisons and other sets for recoveries, etc. this STACKS on those things.

if you disagree that it's broken, that's fine. think of it like this...is it fun/engaging gameplay to lose all of your buffs in any outnumbered fight? if the counter to this set is to never be in an outnumbered fight...is that good for the game to have everyone stack tighter than they are now?

outnumbered fights are already difficult because it's fighting more dmg, more ultimates, more healing, etc. they dont also need a set that makes you naked for free(imo.

jaws343

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

To add onto what I said before. Sets like this can basically dictate what you're going to be forced to wear in PVP. People are gonna have to be forced to run chudan, rattlecage or oakensoul on almost every build just to not be stripped away of any feasible damage in PvP.

People love to scream build diversity but sets like this just make it impossible to play around with sets because now your entire playstyle is gonna be limited or gutted.

Spell power potion users are now losing access to their sorcery because of it. Clever alchemist users are now going to be severely hindered because their potions are already linked to 1 bar as is and now they're potion buffs are going to be severely limited even more. Daedric trickery can basically be entirely dispelled by people if they fight multiple people using this, making trickery effectively useless when getting outnumbered by people using this set.

So on and so forth, sets like this COMPLETELY ruin the flow of combat and severely guts usage of so many sets. It's effectively stronger than a 5 piece and I don't see why it would not completely destroy PVP if it goes live in current iteration

I'm just dreading how awful mag sorc is going to be (already not in a great spot as is), forced to wear Chudan and Rattlecage. Or, having to constantly re-apply boundless and crit surge and then just running out of mag. Oaken might be the only viable option next patch for a number of builds if this set becomes widespread. And, given the DC and PB usage, this set will certainly be used by a large portion of the PVP population. Especially in BGs, where you are already disadvantaged, buff wise, without CP.

JustAGoodPlayer

In a lot of games there are classes who can remove all enemy buffs or good effects.

It is good counter for builds that have to much buffs. Some builds can do not have buffs or it is easy for them to bring them back.

But such skills in such games have about 15-30 seconds calldown and remove not 1 but some number or all buffs.

FrankonPC

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

This is what the set NEEDS to solve, not robbing solos of their precious buffs. ZOS please make it scale to multiple targets.

If only ESO had a debuff system that could counteract powerful buffs.