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The Nocturnal's Ploy set should not be allowed to enter the game
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can somebody show me some positive feedback?
The PTS is a ghost town due to ZOS’s reputation for ignoring feedback. So the best you’ll get is a few duos proccing stuff on each other. You’ll have to wait until it hits the live servers and then social media will be flooded with videos of how dysfunctional this will be in zergs.
Losing your major buffs continuously, combined with damage nerfs across the board is certainly going to be interesting. And I’m sure many will be secretly testing different gear and skill setups to spring on an unsuspecting population. It will be epic!RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.0 -
virt_eso✭✭As an average potion enjoyer, I'm reading this as 5-piece bonus as
(5) Reduce target's stamina and magicka recovery by ~400-, reduce targets weapon and spell damage spell damage by 1,000 to 1,500, in some cases reduce targets critical, by 2629. Target can only cleanse this effect once every 45 seconds. Also reduce targets armor by 5,948 (target may cleanse this with their amor skill) These effects can occur every TWO SECONDS.
Can we all agree that this set is a bit looney? There's a whole bunch of minors and majors not being mentioned here, but these are the main ones everyone uses.
Imagine losing 650 magicka and stamina recovery because someone is using both of those new "Rewards for the Worthy" sets (Langour reduces recoveries by 245). Unplayable, log out, uninstall.15 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People will run this + buffed PB. You will dare to purge - you go boom. You die - you also go boom.
I don't get this double standards ZOS has towards Proc Sets. They nerfed Oaken, but with Oaken - you at least still needed to deal damage & do combos yourself.7 -
ZiggyTStardust✭✭✭Removeing buffs from an enemy player should be on an ultimate, or an a proc set with a long cooldown. Not on a 2 second cooldown proc set16 -
JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭The other set that nullify dots effects (heal on effect end) and purdge when you have 6 debuffs on you - is cheat too !
This one is not even such bad as that another one.1 -
Zski✭✭✭One of the most interesting sets they've made in a long time. Buff management and sustain is the core of a LOT of pvp games that operate on similar principles to ESO - they all have antihealing, and they all have debuffing. GW2, a pvp game arguably MORE centered around buffs in its premise then ESO could ever hope to be, has a ton of "boon strips". ESO has never particularly had either boonstrip or real accessible antiheal, for some reason.
It should've.
I would say the timer needs to be lengthened considerably to make this a Counterplay instead of a Strategy, but ways to purge some of the absurd buffs obtainable in this game (and actual ways to mitigate the patently absurd healing/crosshealing) are both things ESO PvP was long overdue for. You guys at least got one set that does one of them.
Doesn't even touch the most patently absurd buffs in the game, like Clever, Balorgh, or even Rallying Cry's impen. If anything everything about this set except the timer is *underwhelming*.Dead account. Y'all deserve each other.
GLHF.1 -
JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭They are not major / minor they are not effected by this set.
Heal is not effected the same.
Potions - yes. You pay money, some one removes the effect ... nice !0 -
OolongSnakeTea✭✭✭✭It's def overtuned for sure, so it'll probs see adjustment easily if people just show how powerful it is. I think they make gear and don't think of the combinations of abuse in the long run, and expect us to do their math homework them sometimes.
Like cool concept, but terrible long-term effects.
"I try to create sympathy for my characters, then turn the monsters loose."– Stephen King1 -
Slicesym✭This is going to turn into a Zerg set. Which is going to be very unfortunate for small group pvp. Please remove.1
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React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One of the most interesting sets they've made in a long time. Buff management and sustain is the core of a LOT of pvp games that operate on similar principles to ESO - they all have antihealing, and they all have debuffing. GW2, a pvp game arguably MORE centered around buffs in its premise then ESO could ever hope to be, has a ton of "boon strips". ESO has never particularly had either boonstrip or real accessible antiheal, for some reason.
It should've.
I would say the timer needs to be lengthened considerably to make this a Counterplay instead of a Strategy, but ways to purge some of the absurd buffs obtainable in this game (and actual ways to mitigate the patently absurd healing/crosshealing) are both things ESO PvP was long overdue for. You guys at least got one set that does one of them.
Doesn't even touch the most patently absurd buffs in the game, like Clever, Balorgh, or even Rallying Cry's impen. If anything everything about this set except the timer is *underwhelming*.
I find it funny that you mentioned clever and balorgh as "patently absurd buffs", but not things like ironblood or pariah.
The problem with a set like this is that ESO's gameplay has been entirely built around the buffs available to you and your ability to maintain them. Costs are tied to duration and effectiveness, damage is built around what mitigation is available, healing is balanced around the stats you can achieve with buffs, etc. You build your sustain based on how frequentley you need to cast your buffs and other abilities. Potions are on a 40 second cooldown and provide crucial buffs to everyone, such as major regens and for some, weapon/spell power and weapon/spell crit.
Even if this set had a 10 second cooldown, it would fundamentally break the way PVP combat works. If they wanted to add a "dispel" effect to the game, it would be more suited for something like a 300+ cost ultimate where you remove all of a target's effects, or all of the effects in an area similar to what negate does. Having it on a 5 piece set, with a two second cooldown, is total absurdity and shows a complete lack of experience or foresight on the side of zenimax.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster14 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭One of the most interesting sets they've made in a long time. Buff management and sustain is the core of a LOT of pvp games that operate on similar principles to ESO - they all have antihealing, and they all have debuffing. GW2, a pvp game arguably MORE centered around buffs in its premise then ESO could ever hope to be, has a ton of "boon strips". ESO has never particularly had either boonstrip or real accessible antiheal, for some reason.
It should've.
I would say the timer needs to be lengthened considerably to make this a Counterplay instead of a Strategy, but ways to purge some of the absurd buffs obtainable in this game (and actual ways to mitigate the patently absurd healing/crosshealing) are both things ESO PvP was long overdue for. You guys at least got one set that does one of them.
Doesn't even touch the most patently absurd buffs in the game, like Clever, Balorgh, or even Rallying Cry's impen. If anything everything about this set except the timer is *underwhelming*.
I find it funny that you mentioned clever and balorgh as "patently absurd buffs", but not things like ironblood or pariah.
The problem with a set like this is that ESO's gameplay has been entirely built around the buffs available to you and your ability to maintain them. Costs are tied to duration and effectiveness, damage is built around what mitigation is available, healing is balanced around the stats you can achieve with buffs, etc. You build your sustain based on how frequentley you need to cast your buffs and other abilities. Potions are on a 40 second cooldown and provide crucial buffs to everyone, such as major regens and for some, weapon/spell power and weapon/spell crit.
Even if this set had a 10 second cooldown, it would fundamentally break the way PVP combat works. If they wanted to add a "dispel" effect to the game, it would be more suited for something like a 300+ cost ultimate where you remove all of a target's effects, or all of the effects in an area similar to what negate does. Having it on a 5 piece set, with a two second cooldown, is total absurdity and shows a complete lack of experience or foresight on the side of zenimax.
This. A dispel effect in this games combat would be strong even if tied to a 300 cost ultimate.
The power level of this set is through the roof.6 -
jcasini222ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Anyone test this with durok’s, fasallas etc. The defile sets, most are a shade quicker than kynmachers (save for fasalla’s lol). Duroks and fasalla’s are the most hilarious. Whatever minor buffs a person casts would naturally get eaten by fasalla’s just by the nature of being in melee range.
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xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Small scalers shouldn't be worried. Zerglings won't run it, it's simply not their playstyle. It's a bombing set. Assuming this effect can proc multiple enemies simultaneously, you can remove major evasion, major resolve or major protection from zerg clumps coupled with VD/OO for the easiest bombs ever. Not like it was ever hard but this just makes it trivial.
Remember when dark convergence was introduced as a set that zergs should be afraid of? Yeah guess who was running amok with it? Zergs. That's like saying zergs aren't gonna abuse a set that literally disarms your enemy en masse. Of course they will and of course small scalers should be very afraid
Yeah but decent players can just block and move on. It's not like it ruins whatever you were doing. I've been asking for a set based or generic negate for a long time and this is the closest thing so far. I'm very interested to see how it plays out, especially in the upcoming tank meta thanks to healing/oakensoul nerfs.
"it doesn't ruin whatever you're doing" It kind of does? What about people reliant on spell power pots to get their sorcery because they don't have sorcery in class like necromancer? Do I just wait another 45 seconds now to get sorcery or am I now forced to use entropy as a requirement on that class.
People can and WILL run with this set if it goes live. Every other OP set ended up this way, give players an OP tool and they will ruin the fun by overrunning cyrodiil with it. It's been happening since 2017Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade4 -
Elo106✭✭✭✭✭One one hand ZOS is dumbing down the game because "buffs are too hard to manage" on the other hand they add a set that deletes buffs forcing you to track your buffs instead of your skills.
How does this make sense?9 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Small scalers shouldn't be worried. Zerglings won't run it, it's simply not their playstyle. It's a bombing set. Assuming this effect can proc multiple enemies simultaneously, you can remove major evasion, major resolve or major protection from zerg clumps coupled with VD/OO for the easiest bombs ever. Not like it was ever hard but this just makes it trivial.
Remember when dark convergence was introduced as a set that zergs should be afraid of? Yeah guess who was running amok with it? Zergs. That's like saying zergs aren't gonna abuse a set that literally disarms your enemy en masse. Of course they will and of course small scalers should be very afraid
Yeah but decent players can just block and move on. It's not like it ruins whatever you were doing. I've been asking for a set based or generic negate for a long time and this is the closest thing so far. I'm very interested to see how it plays out, especially in the upcoming tank meta thanks to healing/oakensoul nerfs.
"it doesn't ruin whatever you're doing" It kind of does? What about people reliant on spell power pots to get their sorcery because they don't have sorcery in class like necromancer? Do I just wait another 45 seconds now to get sorcery or am I now forced to use entropy as a requirement on that class.
People can and WILL run with this set if it goes live. Every other OP set ended up this way, give players an OP tool and they will ruin the fun by overrunning cyrodiil with it. It's been happening since 2017
Huh that first part was talking about dark convergence, which doesn't really affect anybody that's not zerging in the first place. Oakensoul blessed us with a 1 patch long damage meta but trust me it's going back to tank zergs in U35. They couldn't kill you even if you were naked without any buffs. You wouldn't be able to 1vX them either. Why wouldn't you give a chance to an item that clearly looks like it will be an overpowered tankbuster and zergbuster?1 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Small scalers shouldn't be worried. Zerglings won't run it, it's simply not their playstyle. It's a bombing set. Assuming this effect can proc multiple enemies simultaneously, you can remove major evasion, major resolve or major protection from zerg clumps coupled with VD/OO for the easiest bombs ever. Not like it was ever hard but this just makes it trivial.
Remember when dark convergence was introduced as a set that zergs should be afraid of? Yeah guess who was running amok with it? Zergs. That's like saying zergs aren't gonna abuse a set that literally disarms your enemy en masse. Of course they will and of course small scalers should be very afraid
Yeah but decent players can just block and move on. It's not like it ruins whatever you were doing. I've been asking for a set based or generic negate for a long time and this is the closest thing so far. I'm very interested to see how it plays out, especially in the upcoming tank meta thanks to healing/oakensoul nerfs.
"it doesn't ruin whatever you're doing" It kind of does? What about people reliant on spell power pots to get their sorcery because they don't have sorcery in class like necromancer? Do I just wait another 45 seconds now to get sorcery or am I now forced to use entropy as a requirement on that class.
People can and WILL run with this set if it goes live. Every other OP set ended up this way, give players an OP tool and they will ruin the fun by overrunning cyrodiil with it. It's been happening since 2017
Huh that first part was talking about dark convergence, which doesn't really affect anybody that's not zerging in the first place. Oakensoul blessed us with a 1 patch long damage meta but trust me it's going back to tank zergs in U35. They couldn't kill you even if you were naked without any buffs. You wouldn't be able to 1vX them either. Why wouldn't you give a chance to an item that clearly looks like it will be an overpowered tankbuster and zergbuster?
The reason i brought up DC is because it's a trend as with any OP set. If you introduce the idea of completely disarming or ruining the flow of combat, people are gonna meta hop and use it on everything in PVP.
And we have examples of this happening like dark convergence and these trends go back to 2017 with sloads dealing insane unblocking undodgeable oblivion damage, so on and so forth.
To say small scale players have nothing to worry about is asinine, people have been meta hopping sets like these for YEARS.
The reason we shouldn't give a chance is because it can and WILL ruin the flow of combat. Like I said before it can basically nullify your spell power or weapon power pots making them useless because they can just steal away the buffs you get from potions. Clever alchemist users beware because they have to save their potion usage for 1 bar and now their potion buffs are going to get yoinked away en masse by zergling players.
Players in this game like to sit on top of keeps and range spam you from the safety of their walls. You're telling me those wall campers aren't going to run this set and grief you by stealing your buffs while they never leave their safety zone of the wall ever? Same with battlegrounds, people in battle grounds sit on top of their spawn spamming ranged abilities at you from range.
This enables players to grief you with no risks involvedSolo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade2 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Small scalers shouldn't be worried. Zerglings won't run it, it's simply not their playstyle. It's a bombing set. Assuming this effect can proc multiple enemies simultaneously, you can remove major evasion, major resolve or major protection from zerg clumps coupled with VD/OO for the easiest bombs ever. Not like it was ever hard but this just makes it trivial.
Remember when dark convergence was introduced as a set that zergs should be afraid of? Yeah guess who was running amok with it? Zergs. That's like saying zergs aren't gonna abuse a set that literally disarms your enemy en masse. Of course they will and of course small scalers should be very afraid
Yeah but decent players can just block and move on. It's not like it ruins whatever you were doing. I've been asking for a set based or generic negate for a long time and this is the closest thing so far. I'm very interested to see how it plays out, especially in the upcoming tank meta thanks to healing/oakensoul nerfs.
"it doesn't ruin whatever you're doing" It kind of does? What about people reliant on spell power pots to get their sorcery because they don't have sorcery in class like necromancer? Do I just wait another 45 seconds now to get sorcery or am I now forced to use entropy as a requirement on that class.
People can and WILL run with this set if it goes live. Every other OP set ended up this way, give players an OP tool and they will ruin the fun by overrunning cyrodiil with it. It's been happening since 2017
Huh that first part was talking about dark convergence, which doesn't really affect anybody that's not zerging in the first place. Oakensoul blessed us with a 1 patch long damage meta but trust me it's going back to tank zergs in U35. They couldn't kill you even if you were naked without any buffs. You wouldn't be able to 1vX them either. Why wouldn't you give a chance to an item that clearly looks like it will be an overpowered tankbuster and zergbuster?
The reason i brought up DC is because it's a trend as with any OP set. If you introduce the idea of completely disarming or ruining the flow of combat, people are gonna meta hop and use it on everything in PVP.
And we have examples of this happening like dark convergence and these trends go back to 2017 with sloads dealing insane unblocking undodgeable oblivion damage, so on and so forth.
To say small scale players have nothing to worry about is asinine, people have been meta hopping sets like these for YEARS.
The reason we shouldn't give a chance is because it can and WILL ruin the flow of combat. Like I said before it can basically nullify your spell power or weapon power pots making them useless because they can just steal away the buffs you get from potions. Clever alchemist users beware because they have to save their potion usage for 1 bar and now their potion buffs are going to get yoinked away en masse by zergling players.
Players in this game like to sit on top of keeps and range spam you from the safety of their walls. You're telling me those wall campers aren't going to run this set and grief you by stealing your buffs while they never leave their safety zone of the wall ever? Same with battlegrounds, people in battle grounds sit on top of their spawn spamming ranged abilities at you from range.
This enables players to grief you with no risks involved
How is that any different from the 10+ bowsorcs and snipers and 1 shotters sitting inside their faction stack wailing on solos that's literally happening right now? Nothing stops zerglings abusing broken sets/mechanics except for the lack of skill that made them a zergling in the first place. Sure plenty of them run PB/DC but do they ever even get a kill? Every now and then there's a skilled player that just lacks the mentality to break from the zerg but you'd only feel embarrassed for them.
The #1 issue in Cyrodiil is lag. Can't do anything about that. #2 issue is tank meta. Without sets like dark convergerce, plaguebreak (and hopefully nocturnal's ploy), nobody dies. Just think back to that dreadful meta after acuity/proxy det nerf. I literally quit the game and many others did as well. Tank meta ruins the flow of combat. More specifically, it is anti-PVP. Anything that can prevent a tank meta, no matter how oppressive, will be healthy for whatever is left of Cyrodiil gameplay.3 -
prof_doom✭✭✭✭✭But it's not going to stop the tank meta.
With DPS down 10-30% across the board, there's no reason not to just go full turtle, knowing that people will never be able to kill you now.
You can strip all the buffs you want, but 7pc heavy reinforced is still gonna be there at the end.1 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Small scalers shouldn't be worried. Zerglings won't run it, it's simply not their playstyle. It's a bombing set. Assuming this effect can proc multiple enemies simultaneously, you can remove major evasion, major resolve or major protection from zerg clumps coupled with VD/OO for the easiest bombs ever. Not like it was ever hard but this just makes it trivial.
Remember when dark convergence was introduced as a set that zergs should be afraid of? Yeah guess who was running amok with it? Zergs. That's like saying zergs aren't gonna abuse a set that literally disarms your enemy en masse. Of course they will and of course small scalers should be very afraid
Yeah but decent players can just block and move on. It's not like it ruins whatever you were doing. I've been asking for a set based or generic negate for a long time and this is the closest thing so far. I'm very interested to see how it plays out, especially in the upcoming tank meta thanks to healing/oakensoul nerfs.
"it doesn't ruin whatever you're doing" It kind of does? What about people reliant on spell power pots to get their sorcery because they don't have sorcery in class like necromancer? Do I just wait another 45 seconds now to get sorcery or am I now forced to use entropy as a requirement on that class.
People can and WILL run with this set if it goes live. Every other OP set ended up this way, give players an OP tool and they will ruin the fun by overrunning cyrodiil with it. It's been happening since 2017
Huh that first part was talking about dark convergence, which doesn't really affect anybody that's not zerging in the first place. Oakensoul blessed us with a 1 patch long damage meta but trust me it's going back to tank zergs in U35. They couldn't kill you even if you were naked without any buffs. You wouldn't be able to 1vX them either. Why wouldn't you give a chance to an item that clearly looks like it will be an overpowered tankbuster and zergbuster?
The reason i brought up DC is because it's a trend as with any OP set. If you introduce the idea of completely disarming or ruining the flow of combat, people are gonna meta hop and use it on everything in PVP.
And we have examples of this happening like dark convergence and these trends go back to 2017 with sloads dealing insane unblocking undodgeable oblivion damage, so on and so forth.
To say small scale players have nothing to worry about is asinine, people have been meta hopping sets like these for YEARS.
The reason we shouldn't give a chance is because it can and WILL ruin the flow of combat. Like I said before it can basically nullify your spell power or weapon power pots making them useless because they can just steal away the buffs you get from potions. Clever alchemist users beware because they have to save their potion usage for 1 bar and now their potion buffs are going to get yoinked away en masse by zergling players.
Players in this game like to sit on top of keeps and range spam you from the safety of their walls. You're telling me those wall campers aren't going to run this set and grief you by stealing your buffs while they never leave their safety zone of the wall ever? Same with battlegrounds, people in battle grounds sit on top of their spawn spamming ranged abilities at you from range.
This enables players to grief you with no risks involved
How is that any different from the 10+ bowsorcs and snipers and 1 shotters sitting inside their faction stack wailing on solos that's literally happening right now? Nothing stops zerglings abusing broken sets/mechanics except for the lack of skill that made them a zergling in the first place. Sure plenty of them run PB/DC but do they ever even get a kill? Every now and then there's a skilled player that just lacks the mentality to break from the zerg but you'd only feel embarrassed for them.
The #1 issue in Cyrodiil is lag. Can't do anything about that. #2 issue is tank meta. Without sets like dark convergerce, plaguebreak (and hopefully nocturnal's ploy), nobody dies. Just think back to that dreadful meta after acuity/proxy det nerf. I literally quit the game and many others did as well. Tank meta ruins the flow of combat. More specifically, it is anti-PVP. Anything that can prevent a tank meta, no matter how oppressive, will be healthy for whatever is left of Cyrodiil gameplay.
You say that now but it's not gonna be healthy when all of PVP runs this set once word gets out about it. People will start running Kynemarchers with Nocturnal to be a debuff bot who also takes away your buffs at the same time.
No meta has been good when ALL of PvP is running it and this one is a set that will completely ruin the flow of combat if it becomes widespread and I don't see why it wouldn't. There's no silver lining from this set at all other than to be a grief bot trying to make pvp harder on people when pvp is already terrible as isSolo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade3 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭But it's not going to stop the tank meta.
With DPS down 10-30% across the board, there's no reason not to just go full turtle, knowing that people will never be able to kill you now.
You can strip all the buffs you want, but 7pc heavy reinforced is still gonna be there at the end.
I can't speak for other builds or combos, but our duo bomb setup should have even higher DPS in U35. Every build can still do damage if you build for it, but it just won't be easy mode like it was with Oakensoul or Savage Werewolf or busted MagDK. If you've spent any time bombing, you'd also know that a sliver of HP is what separates a failed bomb from a 10+ teamwipe. Dispelling either a major evasion or major resolve buff would have made all the difference.1 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They talk about balancing the game and then they introduce gear sets like this?!"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother [PS5][EU] 2165 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest [PS5][NA] 1910 CP
- SweetTrolls [PC][EU] 1950 CP
- Bacon Rats [PC][NA] 1850 CP
4 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »But it's not going to stop the tank meta.
With DPS down 10-30% across the board, there's no reason not to just go full turtle, knowing that people will never be able to kill you now.
You can strip all the buffs you want, but 7pc heavy reinforced is still gonna be there at the end.
I can't speak for other builds or combos, but our duo bomb setup should have even higher DPS in U35. Every build can still do damage if you build for it, but it just won't be easy mode like it was with Oakensoul or Savage Werewolf or busted MagDK. If you've spent any time bombing, you'd also know that a sliver of HP is what separates a failed bomb from a 10+ teamwipe. Dispelling either a major evasion or major resolve buff would have made all the difference.
Why are you speaking about bombing when this set is a global cooldown and not per target? It literally makes no sense at all to use this on a bomber, and it makes no sense at all to think about this set in the context of bombing when the largest issue is going to be this set in xvx or xv1 scenarios.
You will continually have your buffs stripped by players that do not care about doing anything other than just that. You will be punished for having good uptimes on your buffs by having to recast them constantly. You will be punished for relying on potions like you have for the past 8 years, by having those buffs removed and becoming inaccessible for another 30+ seconds.
If dispel sets were a mechanic at launch, the game would have been built with them in mind. This is not something that can work in the current version of ESO. It is going to destroy the PVP experience for anyone who likes to try to fight outnumbered.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster6 -
SapAndFury✭✭✭Has this been tested? Do we know that Oakensoul negates it? Call me a Zos cynic, but I’d half expect it to strip all the Oakensoul buffs one at a time till the user has to unequip and re-equip it to get them back.Edited by SapAndFury on July 12, 2022 5:39PM2
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Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »But it's not going to stop the tank meta.
With DPS down 10-30% across the board, there's no reason not to just go full turtle, knowing that people will never be able to kill you now.
You can strip all the buffs you want, but 7pc heavy reinforced is still gonna be there at the end.
I can't speak for other builds or combos, but our duo bomb setup should have even higher DPS in U35. Every build can still do damage if you build for it, but it just won't be easy mode like it was with Oakensoul or Savage Werewolf or busted MagDK. If you've spent any time bombing, you'd also know that a sliver of HP is what separates a failed bomb from a 10+ teamwipe. Dispelling either a major evasion or major resolve buff would have made all the difference.
Why are you speaking about bombing when this set is a global cooldown and not per target? It literally makes no sense at all to use this on a bomber, and it makes no sense at all to think about this set in the context of bombing when the largest issue is going to be this set in xvx or xv1 scenarios.
You will continually have your buffs stripped by players that do not care about doing anything other than just that. You will be punished for having good uptimes on your buffs by having to recast them constantly. You will be punished for relying on potions like you have for the past 8 years, by having those buffs removed and becoming inaccessible for another 30+ seconds.
If dispel sets were a mechanic at launch, the game would have been built with them in mind. This is not something that can work in the current version of ESO. It is going to destroy the PVP experience for anyone who likes to try to fight outnumbered.
As long as it can apply on multiple targets in an AOE, it is a bombing set because it randomly removes at least 1 major and 1 minor buff from every member of the entire zerg clump. I would actually buff this set to remove the same number of buffs as the number of targets affected, to instantly strip optimized groups of all 10+ major/minor buffs too. This would make it fairer for solo players and small scalers vs being used the other way around by Xv1s. Frankly 1vX has not really been happening for a long time now so I'm not sure how this set could kill it any further.2 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Small scalers shouldn't be worried. Zerglings won't run it, it's simply not their playstyle. It's a bombing set. Assuming this effect can proc multiple enemies simultaneously, you can remove major evasion, major resolve or major protection from zerg clumps coupled with VD/OO for the easiest bombs ever. Not like it was ever hard but this just makes it trivial.
Remember when dark convergence was introduced as a set that zergs should be afraid of? Yeah guess who was running amok with it? Zergs. That's like saying zergs aren't gonna abuse a set that literally disarms your enemy en masse. Of course they will and of course small scalers should be very afraid
Yeah but decent players can just block and move on. It's not like it ruins whatever you were doing. I've been asking for a set based or generic negate for a long time and this is the closest thing so far. I'm very interested to see how it plays out, especially in the upcoming tank meta thanks to healing/oakensoul nerfs.
"it doesn't ruin whatever you're doing" It kind of does? What about people reliant on spell power pots to get their sorcery because they don't have sorcery in class like necromancer? Do I just wait another 45 seconds now to get sorcery or am I now forced to use entropy as a requirement on that class.
People can and WILL run with this set if it goes live. Every other OP set ended up this way, give players an OP tool and they will ruin the fun by overrunning cyrodiil with it. It's been happening since 2017
Huh that first part was talking about dark convergence, which doesn't really affect anybody that's not zerging in the first place. Oakensoul blessed us with a 1 patch long damage meta but trust me it's going back to tank zergs in U35. They couldn't kill you even if you were naked without any buffs. You wouldn't be able to 1vX them either. Why wouldn't you give a chance to an item that clearly looks like it will be an overpowered tankbuster and zergbuster?
The reason i brought up DC is because it's a trend as with any OP set. If you introduce the idea of completely disarming or ruining the flow of combat, people are gonna meta hop and use it on everything in PVP.
And we have examples of this happening like dark convergence and these trends go back to 2017 with sloads dealing insane unblocking undodgeable oblivion damage, so on and so forth.
To say small scale players have nothing to worry about is asinine, people have been meta hopping sets like these for YEARS.
The reason we shouldn't give a chance is because it can and WILL ruin the flow of combat. Like I said before it can basically nullify your spell power or weapon power pots making them useless because they can just steal away the buffs you get from potions. Clever alchemist users beware because they have to save their potion usage for 1 bar and now their potion buffs are going to get yoinked away en masse by zergling players.
Players in this game like to sit on top of keeps and range spam you from the safety of their walls. You're telling me those wall campers aren't going to run this set and grief you by stealing your buffs while they never leave their safety zone of the wall ever? Same with battlegrounds, people in battle grounds sit on top of their spawn spamming ranged abilities at you from range.
This enables players to grief you with no risks involved
How is that any different from the 10+ bowsorcs and snipers and 1 shotters sitting inside their faction stack wailing on solos that's literally happening right now? Nothing stops zerglings abusing broken sets/mechanics except for the lack of skill that made them a zergling in the first place. Sure plenty of them run PB/DC but do they ever even get a kill? Every now and then there's a skilled player that just lacks the mentality to break from the zerg but you'd only feel embarrassed for them.
The #1 issue in Cyrodiil is lag. Can't do anything about that. #2 issue is tank meta. Without sets like dark convergerce, plaguebreak (and hopefully nocturnal's ploy), nobody dies. Just think back to that dreadful meta after acuity/proxy det nerf. I literally quit the game and many others did as well. Tank meta ruins the flow of combat. More specifically, it is anti-PVP. Anything that can prevent a tank meta, no matter how oppressive, will be healthy for whatever is left of Cyrodiil gameplay.
You say that now but it's not gonna be healthy when all of PVP runs this set once word gets out about it. People will start running Kynemarchers with Nocturnal to be a debuff bot who also takes away your buffs at the same time.
No meta has been good when ALL of PvP is running it and this one is a set that will completely ruin the flow of combat if it becomes widespread and I don't see why it wouldn't. There's no silver lining from this set at all other than to be a grief bot trying to make pvp harder on people when pvp is already terrible as is
Kynmarch + Pulsar. Just hit people with minor mangle and the Kynmarch debuff, and troll away.1 -
Suligost✭✭✭I quit PvP or gonna join Cloak gankers if that comes live.Edited by Suligost on July 12, 2022 5:44PM1 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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It says "buffs with a duration" which should not apply to Oakensoul buffs, which are static with no duration.SapAndFury wrote: »Has this been tested? Do we know that Oakensoul negates it? Call me a Zos cynic, but I’d half expect it to strip all the Oakensoul buffs one at a time till the user has to unequip and re-equip it to get them back.
If this dispel set goes live, I will 100% continue using nerfed Oakensoul just to not have to deal with this headache.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps0 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My initial reaction for my Necro is to continue to wear Rattlecage and go put Chudan on. Sounds fun. Replace the armor slot with a skill. Major and Minor Protection slotted. I wonder if everyone wearing the set runs puncture.
Kind of wonder if it encourages a kiting meta, as your buffs last longer, it may be more economical gameplay to kite away and reset than charge forward into battle with no buffs. You will run yourself out of resources too quickly trying to keep up with the proc every 2 seconds.
Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »My initial reaction for my Necro is to continue to wear Rattlecage and go put Chudan on. Sounds fun. Replace the armor slot with a skill. Major and Minor Protection slotted. I wonder if everyone wearing the set runs puncture.
Kind of wonder if it encourages a kiting meta, as your buffs last longer, it may be more economical gameplay to kite away and reset than charge forward into battle with no buffs. You will run yourself out of resources too quickly trying to keep up with the proc every 2 seconds.
There is definitely an interesting line where either running a bunch of permanent buff sets like chudan and rattlecage, and running a bunch of passive slottables to get things like major/minor protection, becomes less efficient than just ditching the back bar and running oakensoul.0