I went onto the PTS and the damage nerf templar just got from this is huge. With a PVP build, with no cp activated, I just spammed jabs without light attacks (since they changed those too) on the precursor dummy and I went from 20k live to 11k PTS. Not going to play this class anymore if it stays like this. I feel bad for templar mains. Luckily, I play all classes, I just enjoyed templar quite a bit. Ranged templar will be okay, I guess. RIP jabs

Burning light got an overall 67% dps nerf, jabs got about 40% dps nerf.
But suprise attack is guaranteed crit now.
Like, what?

cro25519 wrote: »

nwilliams2107b16_ESO wrote: »

As per title, can’t get on for a while how’s the changes to Templar looking?

Damage wise it seems to be doing great relative to other classes, parsing about same as necro and blades in ESOU. It'll probably reach 120k along with the two classes in Live. It feels terrible to parse on because damage looks gutted, but everyone's damage is gutted anyway so relatively it's fine?

It’ll be fine for everyone to be gutted when content pegged at our current top parses (without the new extra 2358 pen and 10% damage done from Major Slayer) is adjusted for our new gutted ones. “We’re all in this together” only goes so far when the content released five weeks ago isn’t included in that sentiment.

Flurry is dead to me compared to jabs which are also making me want to never see it again.

On another note does anyone have a parse with rapid strikes doing more damage? I can't seem to reproduce it, but I am abroad for work trip so maybe lag.

Agree with@ADarklore. On top of that by year 8 I was hoping for meta classes or third morphs or something additive. This is a subtractive patch for all skill levels.

For those from beta, 1T and now this are absolute gut punches. I really don’t mind hard resets on gear or power creep it kinda already goes on with expac’s but this is different. We aren’t even getting the same benefits as 1T or potential benefits. This approach is all stick no carrot to run the same exact “content”.

With all these changes, it's becoming very apparent that spell crafting needs to be implemented into ESO, so the power is put into the hands of the players. 20 second dots with 2 second ticks?? How about you let us decide what length we want our dots and the consistency of their ticks instead of creating dumpster fire after dumpster fire of "sweeping changes" - "sweeping changes" in ESO is now synonymous to "sunsetting" in Destiny... It makes it easy for me to put down the controller, realize the game developers are doing stuff to just waste my time investment, and go pay someone I enjoy instead of drastically having to have ESO as another ball to juggle on work and home life balance instead of it being a leisure activity lolz

my jab potential (jab + light attack + burning Light) on live would hit base 35k tooltip damage. After the numbers from this patch, that will fall to around 20k, probably lower since burning Light Proc has such horrendous Internal cooldown. The whole idea is "don't go fixing something that isn't broken" and they break the skill synergy SO badly.

Jabs/sweeps gutted. Burning light gutted.
This decreases potl/pl burst as well.
Templar getting absolutely destroyed.

virtus753 wrote: »

How are you calculating that?

Remember that it's 5% or 12% of the base damage per tick, not compounding.

Oh, it isn't compounding? The tooltip makes it sound like it is imo. I had used a compound interest formula originally, but I can change that. Fair enough.

Current Ritual of Retribution

While in the area, enemies take 900 Magic Damage every 2 seconds for 12 seconds which increases by 5% per tick.

New Ritual of Retribution

• This ability and its morphs now last 20 seconds, up from 12.
• These abilities now tick one extra time over their duration.
  • Ritual of Retribution (morph):
    • Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 52%.
    • This morph now increases by 12% damage per tick, up from 5%.

I apologize in advance for my terrible math. I'm sure I'm getting this totally wrong. Also, I know this is only for the optimal situation and the fact that most enemies will not spend 100% of their time in the entire 20 second duration means it is less damage overall. I dislike how horribly back-heavy this is now. It hurts the spirit of mobile combat.

I can't describe how much I hate the new jabs. The dps took a huge hit, and the animation personally makes me want to vomit.

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

Oh no the Jabs animation and visuals is so bad and my single target damage has dropped massively. Deadly is useless now

They reduced the damage by 21% on single target because something something light attack weaving.
I mean, when you weaved before, you didn't suffer a DPS loss with jabs at all, so their point here was an excuse. It still does ~12-16k damage. Still good, and still feels good to use. But it looks bad, the old animation was way cooler looking.

It did need a nerf, it's been really strong for a long time. I was expecting 10% at some point, but you know how ZoS is with their sledgehammer nerfs.

Also how is Deadly useless now? It still effects the skill just fine. It's just that it overall deals 21% less damage, which blows.

Only issue is due to my high ping I cant light attack weave very well due to the actions not registering quick enough so sure if you can weave perfectly its probably fine, what about those that can't? There isnt even another class spammable we can use.

virtus753 wrote: »

Quick question: should the 0.52 in your second formula be 0.48? They reduced the base tick by 52%, so it's now 48% of live. On my tooltip in game it's actually only 47%.

Ah, that does make more sense; I must have read it wrong! I'm no mathematician. The way it is (... * 0.52), it's saying "52% of its value". But if it's being reduced by ~52%, it should be changed. Thanks for pointing that out!
Also, they did say "approximately 52%", so 47% may be within that discrepancy. I'm sure there are more factors in their calculations than just a flat %52 reduction.



Between not being compound and using the wrong percentage, the value is down significantly from what I thought it was first. Dang. I wonder why they are nerfing the damage so heavily by 52%. If it compounded, then it would look like this



which isn't even really that much more considering it's spread out over 20 seconds

virtus753 wrote: »

In general additional tick damage is not compounding in this game. (If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.) Outside of combat, too, XP gains and gold gains and such are also additive percentages of base values. Like a 150% xp scroll plus a 100% event bonus plus 10% ESO+ and 10% Ring of Mara gets you an additional 270% xp on top of the base, not multiplicative bonuses.

Right, that makes sense. I think for me it's just the wording on Ritual of Retribution that makes me think it's compound. Saying that something increases by 5% each time, makes me assume the value goes up from its previous value by 5% each time, not necessarily going up by a static, base value each time. All the XP bonuses make sense as additive to me because they all would apply at once, when the XP gain is calculated. The wording on RoR sounds compound to me because it applies multiple times over a duration, but with context I can see it not being so. Thanks for the clarification and testing to verify!

Billium813 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Quick question: should the 0.52 in your second formula be 0.48? They reduced the base tick by 52%, so it's now 48% of live. On my tooltip in game it's actually only 47%.

Ah, that does make more sense; I must have read it wrong! I'm no mathematician. The way it is (... * 0.52), it's saying "52% of its value". But if it's being reduced by ~52%, it should be changed. Thanks for pointing that out!
Also, they did say "approximately 52%", so 47% may be within that discrepancy. I'm sure there are more factors in their calculations than just a flat %52 reduction.



Between not being compound and using the wrong percentage, the value is down significantly from what I thought it was first. Dang. I wonder why they are nerfing the damage so heavily by 52%. If it compounded, then it would look like this



which isn't even really that much more considering it's spread out over 20 seconds

virtus753 wrote: »

In general additional tick damage is not compounding in this game. (If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.) Outside of combat, too, XP gains and gold gains and such are also additive percentages of base values. Like a 150% xp scroll plus a 100% event bonus plus 10% ESO+ and 10% Ring of Mara gets you an additional 270% xp on top of the base, not multiplicative bonuses.

Right, that makes sense. I think for me it's just the wording on Ritual of Retribution that makes me think it's compound. Saying that something increases by 5% each time, makes me assume the value goes up from its previous value by 5% each time, not necessarily going up by a static, base value each time. All the XP bonuses make sense as additive to me because they all would apply at once, when the XP gain is calculated. The wording on RoR sounds compound to me because it applies multiple times over a duration, but with context I can see it not being so. Thanks for the clarification and testing to verify!

I swear I did the math on VMA Bow at one time (which adds a flat amount each tick) and it did compound. The way ritual is worded I think this must be a bug, or it would just say "increases by 5% after the first tick" not "5% PER tick".

edit: Just tested Endless hail and it does compound.

OK I think I was using a different (read:wrong) idea of compounding. The first tick is base, second is (base*1.05), third is (base*1.1), fourth is (base*1.15) etc...

Burning light gutted... 33% damage decrease. Jabs only hits 3 times now, the initial hit was taken down 21%, snare is only .5 seconds, reduced healing by 33%. Purifying light healing reduced in frequency and down 12%. Solar barrage gutted... 24% nerf on what was already an incredibly weak dot (with longer duration, it's also far weaker than even that). Same with sun fire. A dot too weak to use even on current live, nerfed by 25% per tick. Damage of ritual of retribution nerfed 52%.

We have no dots even worth a skeever's behind to begin with. Now our spammable is gutted. Empower for worthless light attacks gutted. Healing gutted. We have no playstyle that works now as dds. The only thing we had before to compete was jabs, burning light, and empower.... now what? No alternatives. Templar has been butchered and buried with maximum prejudice by Zos...

Let us not forget that people testing right now on pts are largely doing so on the now buffed dummy... it has minor and major courage now, 6k pen, and major slayer. The true damage is so much worse than what that dummy will tell you.