How’s Templar looking?

Billium813

danno8 wrote: »

I swear I did the math on VMA Bow at one time (which adds a flat amount each tick) and it did compound. The way ritual is worded I think this must be a bug, or it would just say "increases by 5% after the first tick" not "5% PER tick".

edit: Just tested Endless hail and it does compound.

OK I think I was using a different (read:wrong) idea of compounding. The first tick is base, second is (base*1.05), third is (base*1.1), fourth is (base*1.15) etc...

So looking at Thunderous Volley:

Increases the damage Volley deals by 430 each tick. This bonus increases by 143 every time Volley ticks, up to a maximum of 8 times.

and Endless Hail:

... dealing 400 Physical Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second for 12 seconds, after a 2 second delay.

My understanding of Thunderous Volley damage is that the 430 damage is the flat increase to the base and the +143 damage is the flat increase, compounded per tick.


plus

for the additional tick on the end that gets no more buffs (max of 8)

If I am correct, I personally would remove the "each tick" from Thunderous Volley's tool tip as it seems confusing.

virtus753

Billium813 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

I swear I did the math on VMA Bow at one time (which adds a flat amount each tick) and it did compound. The way ritual is worded I think this must be a bug, or it would just say "increases by 5% after the first tick" not "5% PER tick".

edit: Just tested Endless hail and it does compound.

OK I think I was using a different (read:wrong) idea of compounding. The first tick is base, second is (base*1.05), third is (base*1.1), fourth is (base*1.15) etc...

So looking at Thunderous Volley:

Increases the damage Volley deals by 430 each tick. This bonus increases by 143 every time Volley ticks, up to a maximum of 8 times.

and Endless Hail:

... dealing 400 Physical Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second for 12 seconds, after a 2 second delay.

My understanding of Thunderous Volley damage is that the 430 damage is the flat increase to the base and the +143 damage is the flat increase, compounded per tick.


plus

for the additional tick on the end that gets no more buffs (max of 8)

If I am correct, I personally would remove the "each tick" from Thunderous Volley's tool tip as it seems confusing.

Yeah, ZOS' tooltips have never been a shining example of clear language.

Neither the current nor the new Burning Light tooltip specifies that it only stacks on one target, regardless of how many you're hitting, even though (as the devs themselves just pointed out) we have long been relying on an AoE skill to proc it.

Daily endeavor tooltips frequently just repeat the text on the label (e.g. "Kill 5 beasts" has the tooltip "kill beasts" - which helps approximately no one figure out what counts as "beasts" in this game).

The tooltip on Pillager's Profit suggests it is not nearly as powerful as it is - it says it will deliver up to 20 ultimate every other second "over" 10 seconds, not up to 20 ultimate every other second "for" 10 seconds. (The preposition "over" is otherwise reserved for DoTs and HoTs that spread their tooltip value over a period of time.)

Players used to try to distinguish direct damage from damage over time by reading the tooltips, only to realize that not only was the wording not consistent, but neither was the programming. In fact, that's still an issue, as Flurry is somehow both direct damage AND damage over time at once, which is theoretically not possible, with those two damage types being mutually exclusive. (Flurry was also said not to be a DoT and not to benefit from Thaumaturge in 6.3.4) And yet...

TechMaybeHic

Jabs and Templar on PTS

https://tenor.com/bmeKY.gif

K9002

What are we supposed to use then? Crushing shock? I mean for magplars, because stamplars at least can fall back on flurry. Dark flare is beyond bad with its nerfed damage and a cast time, it's so bad that barrage is still the better morph. I'd use the vampire spammable if it wasn't previously nerfed into the ground.

Vahndamme

K9002 wrote: »

What are we supposed to use then? Crushing shock? I mean for magplars, because stamplars at least can fall back on flurry. Dark flare is beyond bad with its nerfed damage and a cast time, it's so bad that barrage is still the better morph. I'd use the vampire spammable if it wasn't previously nerfed into the ground.

I suspect Crushing Shock or Elemental Weapon ??? no clue really.. overall U35 is a mess, hope they go back to the drawing board and think looooong and hard

virtus753

K9002 wrote: »

What are we supposed to use then? Crushing shock? I mean for magplars, because stamplars at least can fall back on flurry. Dark flare is beyond bad with its nerfed damage and a cast time, it's so bad that barrage is still the better morph. I'd use the vampire spammable if it wasn't previously nerfed into the ground.

What's a stamplar if we run flurry, though? In all seriousness, what do we have left of stamplar identity that hasn't been nerfed to the ground? Burning Light is down 67%; Ritual of Retribution is down 52-33%, depending on how soon you recast it. We're about to lose our class spammable to a generic weapon ability (again, might I add) that is bugged again due to poor versioning control, and we'll lose our class set because of massive uncompensated indirect nerfs.

Power of the Light is about the only thing left that provides a stamplar any identity, and since everyone now has access to Sundered (especially with many builds running DW front bars) and tanks can also provide Minor Breach with melee taunt, the only possibly unique thing stamplar has is Minor Prophecy. You might as well just bring a magplar (who is also in a sorry state but at least has a class execute), tankplar, or healplar and call it a day.

ETA: Burning Light is actually nerfed 75-78% in real numbers on PTS vs. Live. I don't know how they managed it. It might have needed to be pared back, but it's been erased as a source of effective damage. For Jabs I'm seeing a loss of 21%+ on comparable dummies.

Billium813

virtus753 wrote: »

What's a stamplar if we run flurry, though? In all seriousness, what do we have left of stamplar identity that hasn't been nerfed to the ground? Burning Light is down 67%; Ritual of Retribution is down 52-33%, depending on how soon you recast it. We're about to lose our class spammable to a generic weapon ability (again, might I add) that is bugged again due to poor versioning control, and we'll lose our class set because of massive uncompensated indirect nerfs.

I do agree. When they added Major Savagery to Sun Fire and changed Biting Jabs to Major Brutality I got the distinct impression that they are changing Templar with a specific build in mind. Perhaps all their testers have a specific meta that they are running? Idk, but I feel like ZOS changes templar in a way that says "No, bad, you're not building Templar how we envisioned it". Would be nice if ZOS let us in on what they expect Templar to do. Perhaps they just want Templar to be the worst at everything since it can be a swiss army knife? Maybe each class is only allowed 1 best in class and Templars is supposed to be Healer, so they want Templar to be worse than alternative classes at DPS and Tank?

renne

Billium813 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

What's a stamplar if we run flurry, though? In all seriousness, what do we have left of stamplar identity that hasn't been nerfed to the ground? Burning Light is down 67%; Ritual of Retribution is down 52-33%, depending on how soon you recast it. We're about to lose our class spammable to a generic weapon ability (again, might I add) that is bugged again due to poor versioning control, and we'll lose our class set because of massive uncompensated indirect nerfs.

I do agree. When they added Major Savagery to Sun Fire and changed Biting Jabs to Major Brutality I got the distinct impression that they are changing Templar with a specific build in mind. Perhaps all their testers have a specific meta that they are running? Idk, but I feel like ZOS changes templar in a way that says "No, bad, you're not building Templar how we envisioned it". Would be nice if ZOS let us in on what they expect Templar to do. Perhaps they just want Templar to be the worst at everything since it can be a swiss army knife? Maybe each class is only allowed 1 best in class and Templars is supposed to be Healer, so they want Templar to be worse than alternative classes at DPS and Tank?

It's not even a swiss army knife, because that implies there's some quality to it. If it's anything, it's the Wish version of a swiss army knife.

Sandman929

It looks like this

shadyjane62

I will always see this whenever I attempt to use jabs. In other words I won't play at all.

TechMaybeHic

I mean to be fair, most all other classes and everything in general is not looking good. Maybe it becomes just a dizzy swing and crushing shock meta again. In which case, there are better options to do that with than templar. One's with mobility and escapes, delayed burst that us quicker than 6 seconds and doesn't rely on hitting during the lead up. Maybe we have to consider javelin spam but its expensive and I've never seen it work that great.

blktauna

ADarklore wrote: »

Here is my take... they periodically NERF things into the ground... so a few months later they can say, "We're implementing changes" to give you back what they nerfed originally. It seems that ZOS feels that they have to do something every patch, they can't just sit back and do nothing... which I think it what many people would be happy with. Instead, they have people on payroll that need to DO something, so instead of laying them off or leaving them open to be stolen away by another studio, they task them with adding dumb animations or 'balance changes'... to justify their jobs. It's a pendulum, sadly one that far too many MMOs seem to use.

There's plenty for them do. There's years of technical debt to wade through. We'd all be thrilled to hear 6 year old bugs were finally fixed, dead spots where you get stuck in terrain were fixed and/or bugged items were finally fixed.

Billium813

I know we already talked about RoR, but I feel like ZOS could fix this in a much more satisfactory way.

Old Ritual of Retribution

While in the area, enemies take 900 Magic Damage every 2 seconds for 12 seconds which increases by 5% per tick

New Ritual of Retribution

While in the area, enemies take 432 Magic Damage every 2 seconds for 20 seconds which increases by 12% per tick

My big issue with this change is just how back heavy the damage is now. It starts off much lower and builds, but it's too slow and assumes the combat will stay in the area for the whole 20 seconds. IMO that isn't practical.
Also, the damage over 20 seconds has been neutered too much. It's barely more than what it was spread over 12 seconds!

I understand that the big issue with RoR is the constant ramp up in damage and increasing the time naturally makes the damage too much in total. The duration is doubling, sustain will be better, so it can't do the 2x the damage. There should be a cost to the new sustain benefit. I get it. But in my opinion, I think a change to a model something like Thunderous Volley would be much better.

Make the ramp up in damage cap at 5 ticks and reduce the 52% reduction in damage to a 25% reduction, but increase the ramp up damage to 18%



Now, the damage ramps up faster as enemies stand in it, but the increase is capped at 5 ticks. This damage is still overall LESS than 2 casts of the current RoR, but your sustain may be better if you cast this less often. If you have to recast it cause combat moves, you get back to the max quicker and it's less punishing.

The numbers can be adjusted if it's still too much damage, but the theory is to not make the new RoR soooo backheavy and punish dynamic, moving fights. I think all of the extended duration DoTs could benefit from a model like this. You would get the longer duration like ZOS wants, but you would be able to get back to DPS benchmarks faster with a modest reduction in base damage to balance it out.

shadyjane62

James-Wayne wrote: »

Oh no the Jabs animation and visuals is so bad and my single target damage has dropped massively. Deadly is useless now, no idea which set is good for Templar now. AOE damage is fine but its about single target damage that matters, the only class spammable has been crushed.

When I look in the mirror now this is what I see.

Great kid btw.