Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Getting the ceiling down and raising the floor is IMO a good idea.
But lets see how far the ceiling is being lowered because their recent hardmode content is exceptionally hard.


However I fear this will make it so easy in regular vet - it'll be like bringing overland content to regular vet group content.
20-30 second combat prayer.. What are healer's to do while they wait for their 20-30 seconds abilities to run out? Heavy attack?

I'm a bit confused.
This will be a massive shift.. I'm not sure about this.

We'll DPS, like we've always done.
My healers are going to love the 20 second Radiating Regen, lol.

Jaimeh wrote: »

LA weaving will do less damage, so it won't matter as much for those who can't do it well anyway, and longer dots will make rotations slower, so basically they are trying to make combat involve less APM. For me that's not a good change, I don't think it goed with the combat in this game. And it's very much driven by financial decisions not balance decisions, because they want to appeal to the majority of playerbase.

Right, we all know this to be true, and they're not even really trying to hide it. They pretty much admitted in the announcement that they're dumbing it down for the masses.

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Getting the ceiling down and raising the floor is IMO a good idea.
But lets see how far the ceiling is being lowered because their recent hardmode content is exceptionally hard.


However I fear this will make it so easy in regular vet - it'll be like bringing overland content to regular vet group content.
20-30 second combat prayer.. What are healer's to do while they wait for their 20-30 seconds abilities to run out? Heavy attack?

I'm a bit confused.
This will be a massive shift.. I'm not sure about this.

I don't know how likely it is to make regular vet easier. I think it will just take longer. Longer buffs and dot's does not mean that most people will do more damage, because they're also nerfing the damage done by dots, as well as the damage mitigated by buffs. And no way will people be getting many of the hard mode achievements unless they raise the time limits.

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

I posted this on the change thread itself, but here's a parse of someone using just one skill (no light attacks whatsoever) to pull 60k from last year.

Unless we're gonna start arguing that pressing a button once every second is a skillful thing not everyone can do, skill clearly has nothing to do with getting a decent parse that can do most content.

Nerfing light attack weaving and buffing other stuff isn't gonna help anyone get into a group they couldn't get in before.

It obviously IS a thing that not everyone can do, because if everyone could do it then everyone would be parsing over a 100k. Also, that's a parse using what might be the only skill in the game you could do that with. In any case, if 60-80k is what you consider ideal, just expect a lot of content to take a long time. Hope you have at least a few hours set aside for that vet trial you might have in mind.

I believe that most players, we'll say... 90-95%, could pull 60k if I gave them this exact set up.
What I think the problem is is that most players have no idea how to make a set up like this because ZoS hasn't taught anyone how to play their game, which buffs and nerfs are not going to help at all. Messing with weaving completely misses the issue.

prof_doom wrote: »

It's not going to fulfill the stated goal of "closing the gap".
So long as weaving exists, so will the gap.

They want to reduce it, not eliminate it.

Ittrix wrote: »

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

I posted this on the change thread itself, but here's a parse of someone using just one skill (no light attacks whatsoever) to pull 60k from last year.

Unless we're gonna start arguing that pressing a button once every second is a skillful thing not everyone can do, skill clearly has nothing to do with getting a decent parse that can do most content.

Nerfing light attack weaving and buffing other stuff isn't gonna help anyone get into a group they couldn't get in before.

It obviously IS a thing that not everyone can do, because if everyone could do it then everyone would be parsing over a 100k. Also, that's a parse using what might be the only skill in the game you could do that with. In any case, if 60-80k is what you consider ideal, just expect a lot of content to take a long time. Hope you have at least a few hours set aside for that vet trial you might have in mind.

I believe that most players, we'll say... 90-95%, could pull 60k if I gave them this exact set up.
What I think the problem is is that most players have no idea how to make a set up like this because ZoS hasn't taught anyone how to play their game, which buffs and nerfs are not going to help at all. Messing with weaving completely misses the issue.

I seriously doubt that to be true. But also, what is the "exact" setup used in the parse? If it requires vet trial sets, then chances are most people wouldn't qualify to get in the trials to acquire the sets in the first place. They might not even qualify for normals. But even if it were true that just anyone could slap on the same exact build and parse at least that much, you can't expect that most dedicated trial groups will be happy with those numbers. Especially for hard mode.

I don't think this change is for the benefit of new players, it's for the benefit of players who want to engage with end-game but are hesitant because of the combat, and mid-game players who are only competent only to a certain extent. If DOTs are longer, rotations will be slower, so these players will not worry so much about needing high APM, and if LA weaving is less effective then it means, if they miss a LA here and there, this will not be detrimental to their parse. ZOS is basically trying to make slower (and easier) combat more effective, or at the very least not as far behind as high APM combat, so those start/mid-game players will engage more with harder vet content. This is not a bad idea in theory, but a) it's indeed a middle finger to veteran end-gamers, and b) it doesn't acknowledge the issues it will cause for the really hard content, like DLC trial trifectas. Granted, I don't think they were thinking about the 1% of the population when they were making this decision, but it's still a huge oversight. There will be even less completion at the very very top end-game, imo, because of this.

Lowering the effectiveness of what started as a combat mechanic exploit? I'm glad it's getting nerfed. It always drove me crazy how animation exploits became the game's meta. Now focus on skills and timing of them matter more.

Dumbest change int he year and half i've been playing... ZOS has formally just acknowledged that the majority of players suck, and instead of offering a tutorial on how to get better, they just hardcap the good players

Happy to see zos go through with it this time. I think it is long overdue and i think it is a step in the right direction ( to eventually remove weave cancel all together)

Anyway, long overdue change!

Damn! So I wont be able to parse 140k? ... Oh right, I couldnt do that anyway.

This game is already the most casual MMO in existance...

I will have to see when this is on the PTS, but MEH, another lame nerf. Also: rip magblade dps.

Ittrix wrote: »

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

I posted this on the change thread itself, but here's a parse of someone using just one skill (no light attacks whatsoever) to pull 60k from last year.

Unless we're gonna start arguing that pressing a button once every second is a skillful thing not everyone can do, skill clearly has nothing to do with getting a decent parse that can do most content.

Nerfing light attack weaving and buffing other stuff isn't gonna help anyone get into a group they couldn't get in before.

It obviously IS a thing that not everyone can do, because if everyone could do it then everyone would be parsing over a 100k. Also, that's a parse using what might be the only skill in the game you could do that with. In any case, if 60-80k is what you consider ideal, just expect a lot of content to take a long time. Hope you have at least a few hours set aside for that vet trial you might have in mind.

I believe that most players, we'll say... 90-95%, could pull 60k if I gave them this exact set up.
What I think the problem is is that most players have no idea how to make a set up like this because ZoS hasn't taught anyone how to play their game, which buffs and nerfs are not going to help at all. Messing with weaving completely misses the issue.

I seriously doubt that to be true. But also, what is the "exact" setup used in the parse? If it requires vet trial sets, then chances are most people wouldn't qualify to get in the trials to acquire the sets in the first place. They might not even qualify for normals. But even if it were true that just anyone could slap on the same exact build and parse at least that much, you can't expect that most dedicated trial groups will be happy with those numbers. Especially for hard mode.

You doubt it to be true? It's pressing the same button repeatedly. You think 90-95% of players couldn't press the same button at least once a second? I don't think he even drank potions.

The exact set up is unoptimized, but here you are.

He's wearing kilt (could sub in for fete in a real situation), Deadly (buyable), and five pieces of relequen. Relequen is extremely bad for this parse, though. As I said, he literally did not light attack at all. The fifth set piece of rele contributed 800 DPS. Any other DPS set would likely work better. For ease, we'll say just use Hundings which is craftable.

Yes, I doubt it to be true. You have more faith in the player base than I do. And beside the point, because you're not going to get a lot of people playing templars exclusively just to achieve this, and you can't extrapolate from one example of one class and ability to claim this is something easily achievable across the board. And again, if you can't add at least 40,000 to that damage, it's not evidence that weaving doesn't matter, or whatever exactly your point is. If weaving didn't make a real difference, they wouldn't be messing with it.