Weaving nerf : good or bad ?

HEIIMS

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

Many people are pointing out the lack of in-game tutorial tools, which is a very valid point, even though this is an mmo and it's always players teaching other players (because it's more efficient) the lack of even the simplest combat tutorial is part of this problem imo. In other mmo's you're usually greeted with short clips or pop-up messages during your first attempts at dungeons/pvp arenas. Another point that I think is just as valid, and straight up misleading is ZOS's way of marketing ESO. "Play how you want" "Explore Tamriel with friends in this exciting adventure" etc. It's standard marketing, sure, but the fact that the game itself lacks any tangible combat tutorial paired together with "Play how you want" nonsense is what creates a lot of this "gap". People are being held by their hand during the entirety of overland content, but then decide queuing up for a dungeon/trial/bg and get absolutely blasted by the sudden jump in difficulty that the game never prepared them for. Then they of course blame anything but themselves (toxic elitists, game mechanics, "op" sets etc.) and come to forums to complain.
Really hope these changes won't make past PTS/initial testing.

A more extensive tutorial would be a lot easier to implement than another failed combat overhaul (as always with something massively altering core combat there will be plenty of new bugs and exploits).

BXR_Lonestar

Waiting for PTS / natch potes

I'm going to wait to see how things actually pan out on the PTS before I weigh in on whether the changes are good or bad, but in theory, I'm on board with the changes to weaving. TBH, the combat in this game is easily my least favorite part of it. Too often, the game feels more like button mash madness at a furious pace than it does actual controlled, thoughtful, or strategic use of abilities. And whether or not you get a good parse or not can often hinge on whether you have good enough latency to get your bar swaps WHEN you want them and the right abilities fire WHEN you want them to - and living in the country, sometimes my connection is not up to par.

Light attacks, in the grand scheme of things, account to way too much of the total damage IMO, and the game should place more emphasis on heavy attacks as being for more damage, especially on an opportunistic target (one that is stunned, immobilized, off-balance, etc.). I'd also like to feel like I'm not just managing uptimes on my heals/damage abilities/etc, while light attacking in between - it basically feels like that is all you do in the game and it would be nice to at least have upper-end, viable builds that DON'T require weaving in order to achieve it. At the same time, I don't think it should be eliminated for those who enjoy it, but certainly things can be done so that builds are possible that allow for good/high/endgame competitive dps without weaving for those who don't enjoy playing like that.

W0lf_z13

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

DagenHawk wrote: »

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

such a horrible idea....feels like a slap to the face for those who have worked on it for hours a day for months to get rotation and weaving down as tight as possible...... this is just literally lowering the ceiling and catering to those who don't want to put the time and effort into getting better at it.... my magcro has gone from 130k dps down to 122-123k with this last patch and now will go down to what... roughly 111/112k.... granted still good numbers.... but i have put the time and effort into learning to get things as tight as possible

Hours to get your rotation...

Honestly it doesn't sound like you had much fun doing it...

I guess people don't want to put hours into a video game unless they are having fun...not working so they can have fun someday....

To be honest most folks laugh these days when someone say "Yeah you have to earn it!!!" I mean it sounds like a Dad that is angry that his kid won't get a Part time summer job...and again it's a silly video game.

All of this is taking combat back where it was three years ago full stop.

People survived no uber raider was shamed...it's just isn't as dire as you make it sound.

on the contrary, I very much enjoyed the learning process.... if I didn't, I would have stopped once I got to 100k dps ... but I saw the improvement I was making and I continued pushing till I was up to 130k and hit a wall

Holycannoli

M0ntie wrote: »

I don't know if the change itself is good or bad. But I am very very tired of having to completely redo my characters builds because ZoS keep changing things, and this is a fundamental change. Plus they say they cannot guarantee to get it right first time so there will be several patches of changes.

Agreed. You'd think after nine years they'd have combat more or less settled.

Someone mentioned they may have finally found a way to stop animation cancelling and this weaving change is to get us ready for that. I don't think that's true but it would be interesting.

What they need to do is focus on the neverending balance issues, not up-end the core of combat. LA damage nerf is going to hurt and the DoT timing increase just means there's more opportunities to purge them or simply out-heal the now weaker ticks, as if it's not already happening lol.

I mean was there some great outcry of pleas to nerf weaving and make DoTs last so long they're almost guaranteed to be purged? Where did this come from all of a sudden?

Agenericname

Waiting for PTS / natch potes

BretonMage wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

@BretonMage
I think that depends on what youre calling mediocre. If you can weave decently, but not perfectly, then you can clear content. If youre not getting the numbers where you think they should be, perhaps LAs arent the only culprit. Sets? Sure. The tempo of the parse, or "pacing" as its been also called, is also a factor sometimes.

Sorry, I don't want to take the thread OT, but isn't this limited to the GCD of 1 sec? I think I've been doing a LA-skill per second. I was button-mashing for most of my gaming life, but I'm trying to be a bit more mindful in this game.

Yes, the GCD is the limiting factor. The idea behind weaving is fitting both actions into the same GCD.

So the fastest that it can happen is a LA and an ability happen inside of a single GCD. Whats the slowest? I'd say the opposite end of the timing spectrum, for this purpose, would be that the LA and ability dont share the GCD at all. So the LA animation happens and ends, then the ability.

How far apart would the DPS be between those two cases? The first case is ideal. In the second case, it may have been better to replace the LA with a spammable or other ability.

There a bit of real estate between those points that a lot of people fall into. Thats why I feel like this is scapegoating LAs to some extent. Mudcrabattack showed a +100k parse without them, at all. They may be the delta between 100 and 120k, but Im more than skeptical that they are between say 60-100k. There are other reason why that delta is there.

JustAGoodPlayer

Yes, it's a great change

I am HA player. And i always say HA player - because i use HA in my rotation. And i like DO HA, and when i say HA - I talk about that I press HA after skill !

Just think about how cool it is ! Not a LA, but HA.

Do not think that it is some thing special, but if LA players have special name for it, may be need to think about it too !

Just a joke, no need for me to spend my time for thingth like it )))

Do you know why I say about HA and that I am HA player so much ?

May be because I want to show how strange it looks for normal people to hear about Weaving 24*7 from you ? )))

Just to be honest - "Weaving" ok, good. But i do not care !!! Do not care - OK ?

I like HA game play, HA looks cool ! You are like Ghost Baster that beam in target !

It is so cool !

Why the hell some one need to "Weaving" ?

It even sounds bad ! What a big difference is it HA, LA or nothing between skills ?

Why some one need to care ? Why so much difference in damage ?

When i do HA i can not block, i move slower, I am more open to get hit. But i get some resources from it.

When you do LA you are more save, and if you do no LA or HA you can permoblock the same time, if you are a magick user !

Why so much DPS difference ?

Ok - Ok,i already hear about "Weaving", but for 6 years i already can not hear about it any more.

If you like to press LA after + skill, just do it silently ?

I like heavy attacking !!! But i do not talk about it all the time !

Even when our favorite sets and game style get hit each update !

We even do not get any compensationfor this, do you know how expencive gold jevelery is ? I make gold more than jevelery 6+ items for my favorite sets !

Now it is worse thanany possible set,what i need to do with 6 + useless jevelery i make gold ???

Why not you talk about some thing else, do you like good looking altmer or dunmer girls ?

Or Weaving and DPS is the only topic you are interested in ?

Becouse we are not. And we do not want to do it and hear about it. If you like it - do it. But with out us pls, we are not interested