PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Wolfpaw · February 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

If that's the case, and as a requested feature by the community over the years, this really is a good thing. Endgame/combat PvE and PvP server performance above all imo.

It has been requested by some, not by the community, and it was not requested as a means to fix performance. If the only way they can fix performance is to completely wipe out 8 years of history and drive a large portion of the playerbase away, then they may as well just hang it up now.

Those some are part of the community, it's obvious not every player. Please try not to be argumentative over ever little word when someone has a different opinion.

This thread is not just for complaints.

AWA is going to happen, and if that improves performance even by a little bit...good. only ZOS knows if this will improve performance, and I doubt inside info like that will be shared, or needs to be shared.

alberichtano · February 2022

skyrimfantasy wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Some repeatable content is lost. It's hard for me to test this properly without my EU chars on the PTS, but...

Some collection quests are tracked by Achievement dialogues, e.g. Relics of Summerset. It looks like these are not repeatable now. I just tested this by getting the Monochrome Paintbrush ticked off on one character, logged in on another character and found that it was no longer there for them to pick up.

Has anyone seen what happens to the adoring fan and Choixth? Are they only going to appear for the first character now (or never again in my case)?

From what I've seen on the rest of PTS, quests are generally supposed to be tracked at the individual character level still. If this is not the case for some quests, please file a bug report.

I can confirm that the Solitude Musical Instruments quest is no longer tracked on multiple characters. If you already did this quest on one character, then the museum will already be filled with instruments on another.

This essentially means you can only earn ONE music box from this quest per account.

This also means you can only get one factotum training dummy from CWC. Museum quests should have been treated like the PD group events and be per character.

Good thing I collected as many as I could earlier... :-O

alberichtano · February 2022

Wolfpaw wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I think account wide achievements are for server resources. I need to read the comments to see if anyone else is thinks the same.

My feedback is that I don't like it. I like developing my individual characters. I like getting achievements on each of the characters. I like achievement pop-ups. Sometimes when I don't know what to do, I look at the achievements and figure out something for that particular character. :thumbsdown:

I think you are correct, that it is a matter of saving resources in game. But I am no programmer, so I may be wrong.

If that's the case, and as a requested feature by the community over the years, this really is a good thing. Endgame/combat PvE and PvP server performance above all imo. It's a MMOrpg first.

Really now. So if ZOS says that to save resources they will lower the graphics, make it more blocky and less realistic, you would be okey with that, because server performance above all else?

Jaraal · February 2022

alberichtano wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I think account wide achievements are for server resources. I need to read the comments to see if anyone else is thinks the same.

My feedback is that I don't like it. I like developing my individual characters. I like getting achievements on each of the characters. I like achievement pop-ups. Sometimes when I don't know what to do, I look at the achievements and figure out something for that particular character. :thumbsdown:

I think you are correct, that it is a matter of saving resources in game. But I am no programmer, so I may be wrong.

The reason I think it's not the case here is because ZOS has made sure to let us know when they are doing things to "improve performance," no matter how small. They were sure to let us know when a rarely used weapon glyph was going to be reworked from checking a list of NPC types into something that has to constantly calculate three resources.... as a "performance improvement." Did we see any performance improvement? I'll let you answer that for yourselves. But if AWA was going to reduce server load in any way, they would have made sure we knew about it, not just mentioned in passing as an "oh, by the way" in a live stream.

alberichtano · February 2022

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote:

I

Worse, one characters achievements are overwriting another, creating immense pressure to choose which character they'll log into first after the update...or none at all.

"We are the Borg. Your Achievements and experiences will be assimiliated." :-/

alberichtano · February 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

And im not gonna lie, Im rly curious to know what will u do to get all your player back after adding... "this".

I wonder if they really don't realize just how many players will leave over this.

It is kinda funny though...

Imagine an RPG-er wanting to make a new character. Let's say a kind, sweet princess-type that has her heart filled with goodness and kindness and never wanting to do undue harm.

Character created. "You have X new Achievements: Cold Blooded Murderer, Child of Sithis, Serial Killer, Servent of Demons, Grand Sacrificer (etc)"

etchedpixels · February 2022

alberichtano wrote: »

[

Good thing I collected as many as I could earlier... :-O

Well if they don't fix it then before the change over take the quest on every character ready and have it auto complete on each one 8)

alberichtano · February 2022

Jaraal wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I think account wide achievements are for server resources. I need to read the comments to see if anyone else is thinks the same.

My feedback is that I don't like it. I like developing my individual characters. I like getting achievements on each of the characters. I like achievement pop-ups. Sometimes when I don't know what to do, I look at the achievements and figure out something for that particular character. :thumbsdown:

I think you are correct, that it is a matter of saving resources in game. But I am no programmer, so I may be wrong.

The reason I think it's not the case here is because ZOS has made sure to let us know when they are doing things to "improve performance," no matter how small. They were sure to let us know when a rarely used weapon glyph was going to be reworked from checking a list of NPC types into something that has to constantly calculate three resources.... as a "performance improvement." Did we see any performance improvement? I'll let you answer that for yourselves. But if AWA was going to reduce server load in any way, they would have made sure we knew about it, not just mentioned in passing as an "oh, by the way" in a live stream.

You may have a point. I am just not clear on why they would otherwise use such a blunt and heavy handed way to deal with this. Why remove so much information if it doesn't give some benefit server-wise?

alberichtano · February 2022

LalMirchi wrote: »

Somehow I fail to see the logic in fixing what's not broken while ancient bugs wait patiently for some attention.

I would miss my beloved zone quests on my new alts so I for one do not support the concept of account-wide zone completion.

Indeed... point in case, the text in the Mnem-temple is still hiden and unreadable, after gods know how many years. I can't imagine that would require many minutes to fix (though I am no expert of course), but...

SilverBride · February 2022

Wolfpaw wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

If that's the case, and as a requested feature by the community over the years, this really is a good thing. Endgame/combat PvE and PvP server performance above all imo.

It has been requested by some, not by the community, and it was not requested as a means to fix performance. If the only way they can fix performance is to completely wipe out 8 years of history and drive a large portion of the playerbase away, then they may as well just hang it up now.

Those some are part of the community, it's obvious not every player. Please try not to be argumentative over ever little word when someone has a different opinion.

This thread is not just for complaints...

Nor is it just for supporters.

This is a devastating change for many players and I hope they listen to our feedback and put this on hold until they find a much less disruptive way to implement it.

wolfie1.0. · February 2022

aura_36ub17_ESO wrote: »

Having a completionist and somewhat addictive personality I am stoked about this I have a ton of chars and the impulse to complete achieves on all of them has been somewhat detracting for me I have two chars well into 30k achieves and tons over 10k I dont care about losing the progress on the alts honestly. this change will further progress my main and save me from myself and let see sunshine sometimes. I think this is a positive change for a lot of people . you can still do all the achieves and replay all the same quests for the tenth time if you want to without being compelled by the dopamine dropping achieve ding.

now make Alliance war rank account wide and make any pvp done on any char feed the center pool so im not stuck playing a toon from years ago just to make Grand Overlord on my account it is aweful playing alts when trying to get this achieve and gets me stuck on one char for pvp. Grand Overlord is a massive time sink that a lot of chars wont see in 5 years of playing and possibly never if they play multiple toons. yes some with 40+ hours a week for many months can do it in less but lets be real.

I highly doubt they will ever make grand overlord or pvp ranks or kills account wide because thats tied to skill points. Granted with this recent move I will say the odds go up. But if they are going to go that far then they are going to have to do that for everything that is tied to skill points. At which point you might as well go the final step and implement a class change scroll in the clown store and make everything account wide and restrict everyone to one character per account per server.

wolfie1.0. · February 2022

alberichtano wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I think account wide achievements are for server resources. I need to read the comments to see if anyone else is thinks the same.

My feedback is that I don't like it. I like developing my individual characters. I like getting achievements on each of the characters. I like achievement pop-ups. Sometimes when I don't know what to do, I look at the achievements and figure out something for that particular character. :thumbsdown:

I think you are correct, that it is a matter of saving resources in game. But I am no programmer, so I may be wrong.

There are a lot other things they could do to preserve server resources that wouldn't be account wide achievements. Ones that would have less of an impact. Especially since not everything is moving over. If they wanted to save space they could get rid of items that don't make sense anymore like petty repair boxes or do a mat consolidation project, or a set reduction project, or a recipe reduction project, or simply block addons. Or any of many other options. They could even pull a final fantasy and block new account creation for a time.

wolfie1.0. · February 2022

alberichtano wrote: »

BlackArgonian wrote: »

This change is one of the best ones in years, newer players will actually be able to fill out that achievement book realistically now and won't look at it like a lost cause. And with the hybridisation changes we are getting as well, this game is feeling more like and Elder Scrolls game than ever.

The main thing I think this improves is getting rid of players who sell achievements, farm runs, trifectas, even emperor is sold by endgame communities. They could carry people for free out of the kindness of their heart, but where is the profit in that?

I do want spellcrafting, but I love card games. I honestly wanted a multiplayer minigame system for a long time, so I'm glad the team delivered. Playing against my wife with some stakes will be fun

Why would this stop achievement selling? If anything, it will make them demand even more gold, as it will now only be done once per account, rather than once per character.

Oh the price is going to go up a lot. You also have to add in that players once they get the achievements will simply just not want or need to do it anymore. Not unless ZOS starts handing out new rewards for them.

Which if the goal here IS to reduce server strain, we'll it's counter productive to have a reward that checks if your account has an achievement to grant a new reward that's more strain on the system.

nightstrike · February 2022

Please do not roll this out as currently designed. Send it back to the drawing board and account for the fact that there are people, myself included, who do not want this feature at all.

Perhaps try monetizing it like with skill points. Charge crowns to insta-get the achievements.

The_Boggart · February 2022

Not looking forward to doing all those material surveys before I close my ESO+

Dark_Lord_Kuro · February 2022

nightstrike wrote: »

Please do not roll this out as currently designed. Send it back to the drawing board and account for the fact that there are people, myself included, who do not want this feature at all.

Perhaps try monetizing it like with skill points. Charge crowns to insta-get the achievements.

Now nobody will want it
What about the reverse pay to keep it character bound? Less fun, yeah thats what i taught

alberichtano · February 2022

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I think account wide achievements are for server resources. I need to read the comments to see if anyone else is thinks the same.

My feedback is that I don't like it. I like developing my individual characters. I like getting achievements on each of the characters. I like achievement pop-ups. Sometimes when I don't know what to do, I look at the achievements and figure out something for that particular character. :thumbsdown:

I think you are correct, that it is a matter of saving resources in game. But I am no programmer, so I may be wrong.

There are a lot other things they could do to preserve server resources that wouldn't be account wide achievements. Ones that would have less of an impact. Especially since not everything is moving over. If they wanted to save space they could get rid of items that don't make sense anymore like petty repair boxes or do a mat consolidation project, or a set reduction project, or a recipe reduction project, or simply block addons. Or any of many other options. They could even pull a final fantasy and block new account creation for a time.

That is something I have been wondering for quite some time, why we have levelled repair boxes. It make next to no sense considering the amount of gameplay that takes place befor CP 160. Just make Repair boxes and scrap all the variants.

alberichtano · February 2022

silvereyes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All,

For those asking about the Q&A, we are currently working on it. We will let you know when it is ready. Again, as many of you have noted, this is a lengthy thread with a lot of feedback, so it will take time to parse through and answer questions accordingly. But as stated before, we are not only working on the Q&A, but this thread has been shared with the teams working on the Account-Wide Achievements and they are going through it as well.

Lastly, I do want to remind everyone of community guidelines. We understand this is a hot-button thread, so please keep them in mind as we don't want anyone to cross a line when we are all trying to make sure the community has the space to share their feedback. Thanks, all.

@ZOS_Kevin Thanks for the reply. With regard to the first paragraph, if the company acknowledges the length of the thread, the amount of feedback, and the time it will take to parse through and answer questions accordingly, as well as sharing all that with the teams involved, would that not suggest the wisdom of pulling this system change from the impending Update and returning with it later in the year when you have all had an opportunity to take the necessary time to do it justice and hold onto the chunk of the playerbase that is so adamantly opposed to the changes that currently the company shows no sign of moving on?

This system change is unique among major changes in all the MMORPGs I've been playing since 1998 in that it introduces a change that appeals to some and not to others but is being implemented in a way that unites both sets of players against it. Again, surely the 1,100+ comments deserve a more meaningful response by now than "thanks but we're still working on a Q&A and we don't have anything else to say at this time except to remind you of the forum rules". Surely your beta and launch players along with all those who've entered Tamriel since then are entitled to expect a bit more consideration than that?

It doesnt unite both side against it, lots of poeple still want it as long as some bugs like the bard college are fixed, i even know a few who woulnt mind it to lauch as it is(those few dont like questing thats why)

It unites most of us in its present form. You are making an assumption as to whether something constitutes a bug or is working as intended, and it is the failure of today's patch notes to even address that point that is likely to make us even more united. I totally get that the community is more or less evenly divided on the principle of account-wide achievements, but the way they were implemented initially on the PTS with no adjustments, fixes, or even mentions, in the two subsequent patches has been roundly criticised by those who support the principle every bit as much as by those opposed to it.

Earlier today around when the patch note where posted, gina did post in the bug report thread stating that bugs outlied in that thread where going to be fixed in the remaining pts patch meaning that at some of the problem spoken about here are indeed bugs.

But i do agree i should have been in the known issue part of the patch note

Edit misremembered the post being in this thread

That would also mean that they plan on pushing this awful change out to live.

The writing is on the wall.

Gina's exact wording again:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the reports here, everyone. Just wanted to let you know we have been keeping an eye on this thread and are still working on getting some of the things called out from this thread fixed in future PTS patches.

Emphasis mine.

At the time she wrote that, here were the bug reports remaining from that thread that had not been fixed yet:
Earned by tooltips going to the wrong characters.

Unrepeatable museum quests

Precursor quest not requiring collecting all the parts

Account-wide achievements in the category "Character"

Delves auto-completing

World bosses auto-completing

World events (dolmens, gysers, etc.) auto-completing

Undaunted reputation for dailies not increasing

Delve boss cooldown timers resetting when the delve is discovered

Melina Cassel not offering quest for the Markarth Friend In Deed achievement.

Two NPCs overlapping on a throne in Elsweyr

Vampire / Werewolf skill unlocks unpurchaseable in the Crown Store

Some strangeness with map completion inside vs. outside of zone, although this may be an issue with addons

NPC not appearing in Orsinium quest, A Question of Succession. This may be a rare bug on live, since I was able to just log off and back in to reset the NPC.

That's a pretty big list, and the vast majority of the bugs in the list are directly AwA related, so I agree that AwA is probably getting released in some form. How many of the bugs get fixed, and which ones are working as intended, if any, will determine to a large degree how awful this update is when it makes it to live.

I also thought Gina's vague wording was kind of odd, like she's under some embargo from giving a definitive answer on which bugs are being worked on. Blink twice if you are being held hostage, Gina!

I feel really bad for her and Kevin, having to read through so many repeat complaints without being able to put them to rest.

I wonder which one they will fix...

Mephit · February 2022

Pointless

Jaraal · February 2022

alberichtano wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All,

For those asking about the Q&A, we are currently working on it. We will let you know when it is ready. Again, as many of you have noted, this is a lengthy thread with a lot of feedback, so it will take time to parse through and answer questions accordingly. But as stated before, we are not only working on the Q&A, but this thread has been shared with the teams working on the Account-Wide Achievements and they are going through it as well.

Lastly, I do want to remind everyone of community guidelines. We understand this is a hot-button thread, so please keep them in mind as we don't want anyone to cross a line when we are all trying to make sure the community has the space to share their feedback. Thanks, all.

@ZOS_Kevin Thanks for the reply. With regard to the first paragraph, if the company acknowledges the length of the thread, the amount of feedback, and the time it will take to parse through and answer questions accordingly, as well as sharing all that with the teams involved, would that not suggest the wisdom of pulling this system change from the impending Update and returning with it later in the year when you have all had an opportunity to take the necessary time to do it justice and hold onto the chunk of the playerbase that is so adamantly opposed to the changes that currently the company shows no sign of moving on?

This system change is unique among major changes in all the MMORPGs I've been playing since 1998 in that it introduces a change that appeals to some and not to others but is being implemented in a way that unites both sets of players against it. Again, surely the 1,100+ comments deserve a more meaningful response by now than "thanks but we're still working on a Q&A and we don't have anything else to say at this time except to remind you of the forum rules". Surely your beta and launch players along with all those who've entered Tamriel since then are entitled to expect a bit more consideration than that?

It doesnt unite both side against it, lots of poeple still want it as long as some bugs like the bard college are fixed, i even know a few who woulnt mind it to lauch as it is(those few dont like questing thats why)

It unites most of us in its present form. You are making an assumption as to whether something constitutes a bug or is working as intended, and it is the failure of today's patch notes to even address that point that is likely to make us even more united. I totally get that the community is more or less evenly divided on the principle of account-wide achievements, but the way they were implemented initially on the PTS with no adjustments, fixes, or even mentions, in the two subsequent patches has been roundly criticised by those who support the principle every bit as much as by those opposed to it.

Earlier today around when the patch note where posted, gina did post in the bug report thread stating that bugs outlied in that thread where going to be fixed in the remaining pts patch meaning that at some of the problem spoken about here are indeed bugs.

But i do agree i should have been in the known issue part of the patch note

Edit misremembered the post being in this thread

That would also mean that they plan on pushing this awful change out to live.

The writing is on the wall.

Gina's exact wording again:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the reports here, everyone. Just wanted to let you know we have been keeping an eye on this thread and are still working on getting some of the things called out from this thread fixed in future PTS patches.

Emphasis mine.

At the time she wrote that, here were the bug reports remaining from that thread that had not been fixed yet:
Earned by tooltips going to the wrong characters.

Unrepeatable museum quests

Precursor quest not requiring collecting all the parts

Account-wide achievements in the category "Character"

Delves auto-completing

World bosses auto-completing

World events (dolmens, gysers, etc.) auto-completing

Undaunted reputation for dailies not increasing

Delve boss cooldown timers resetting when the delve is discovered

Melina Cassel not offering quest for the Markarth Friend In Deed achievement.

Two NPCs overlapping on a throne in Elsweyr

Vampire / Werewolf skill unlocks unpurchaseable in the Crown Store

Some strangeness with map completion inside vs. outside of zone, although this may be an issue with addons

NPC not appearing in Orsinium quest, A Question of Succession. This may be a rare bug on live, since I was able to just log off and back in to reset the NPC.

That's a pretty big list, and the vast majority of the bugs in the list are directly AwA related, so I agree that AwA is probably getting released in some form. How many of the bugs get fixed, and which ones are working as intended, if any, will determine to a large degree how awful this update is when it makes it to live.

I also thought Gina's vague wording was kind of odd, like she's under some embargo from giving a definitive answer on which bugs are being worked on. Blink twice if you are being held hostage, Gina!

I feel really bad for her and Kevin, having to read through so many repeat complaints without being able to put them to rest.

I wonder which one they will fix...

So far, none of them. Still the same mess they rolled out almost three weeks ago.

nightstrike · February 2022

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

Please do not roll this out as currently designed. Send it back to the drawing board and account for the fact that there are people, myself included, who do not want this feature at all.

Perhaps try monetizing it like with skill points. Charge crowns to insta-get the achievements.

Now nobody will want it
What about the reverse pay to keep it character bound? Less fun, yeah thats what i taught

Paying for an existing feature we already have doesn't make much sense. Paying for a new feature is a well worn path. And it matches nicely with how skills for crowns are already implemented.

In any case, please don't roll this out until it's in a state that doesn't cause so much upheaval.

Tandor · February 2022

Jaraal wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All,

For those asking about the Q&A, we are currently working on it. We will let you know when it is ready. Again, as many of you have noted, this is a lengthy thread with a lot of feedback, so it will take time to parse through and answer questions accordingly. But as stated before, we are not only working on the Q&A, but this thread has been shared with the teams working on the Account-Wide Achievements and they are going through it as well.

Lastly, I do want to remind everyone of community guidelines. We understand this is a hot-button thread, so please keep them in mind as we don't want anyone to cross a line when we are all trying to make sure the community has the space to share their feedback. Thanks, all.

@ZOS_Kevin Thanks for the reply. With regard to the first paragraph, if the company acknowledges the length of the thread, the amount of feedback, and the time it will take to parse through and answer questions accordingly, as well as sharing all that with the teams involved, would that not suggest the wisdom of pulling this system change from the impending Update and returning with it later in the year when you have all had an opportunity to take the necessary time to do it justice and hold onto the chunk of the playerbase that is so adamantly opposed to the changes that currently the company shows no sign of moving on?

This system change is unique among major changes in all the MMORPGs I've been playing since 1998 in that it introduces a change that appeals to some and not to others but is being implemented in a way that unites both sets of players against it. Again, surely the 1,100+ comments deserve a more meaningful response by now than "thanks but we're still working on a Q&A and we don't have anything else to say at this time except to remind you of the forum rules". Surely your beta and launch players along with all those who've entered Tamriel since then are entitled to expect a bit more consideration than that?

It doesnt unite both side against it, lots of poeple still want it as long as some bugs like the bard college are fixed, i even know a few who woulnt mind it to lauch as it is(those few dont like questing thats why)

It unites most of us in its present form. You are making an assumption as to whether something constitutes a bug or is working as intended, and it is the failure of today's patch notes to even address that point that is likely to make us even more united. I totally get that the community is more or less evenly divided on the principle of account-wide achievements, but the way they were implemented initially on the PTS with no adjustments, fixes, or even mentions, in the two subsequent patches has been roundly criticised by those who support the principle every bit as much as by those opposed to it.

Earlier today around when the patch note where posted, gina did post in the bug report thread stating that bugs outlied in that thread where going to be fixed in the remaining pts patch meaning that at some of the problem spoken about here are indeed bugs.

But i do agree i should have been in the known issue part of the patch note

Edit misremembered the post being in this thread

That would also mean that they plan on pushing this awful change out to live.

The writing is on the wall.

Gina's exact wording again:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the reports here, everyone. Just wanted to let you know we have been keeping an eye on this thread and are still working on getting some of the things called out from this thread fixed in future PTS patches.

Emphasis mine.

At the time she wrote that, here were the bug reports remaining from that thread that had not been fixed yet:
Earned by tooltips going to the wrong characters.

Unrepeatable museum quests

Precursor quest not requiring collecting all the parts

Account-wide achievements in the category "Character"

Delves auto-completing

World bosses auto-completing

World events (dolmens, gysers, etc.) auto-completing

Undaunted reputation for dailies not increasing

Delve boss cooldown timers resetting when the delve is discovered

Melina Cassel not offering quest for the Markarth Friend In Deed achievement.

Two NPCs overlapping on a throne in Elsweyr

Vampire / Werewolf skill unlocks unpurchaseable in the Crown Store

Some strangeness with map completion inside vs. outside of zone, although this may be an issue with addons

NPC not appearing in Orsinium quest, A Question of Succession. This may be a rare bug on live, since I was able to just log off and back in to reset the NPC.

That's a pretty big list, and the vast majority of the bugs in the list are directly AwA related, so I agree that AwA is probably getting released in some form. How many of the bugs get fixed, and which ones are working as intended, if any, will determine to a large degree how awful this update is when it makes it to live.

I also thought Gina's vague wording was kind of odd, like she's under some embargo from giving a definitive answer on which bugs are being worked on. Blink twice if you are being held hostage, Gina!

I feel really bad for her and Kevin, having to read through so many repeat complaints without being able to put them to rest.

I wonder which one they will fix...

So far, none of them. Still the same mess they rolled out almost three weeks ago.

Indeed. I guess tomorrow's patch is an opportunity for them to show whether they're taking any of the bug reports and feedback seriously or not.

alberichtano · February 2022

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

Lots of people seem to be dissatisfied with the account wide achievements, but overall this is a massive QoL feature that will benefit not only the great majority of people playing the game but will also remove a barrier some people have in playing different characters.

It benefits some of the community. It ruins it for the rest of us.

Pushing this change forward for the former, without any regard for the latter, will absolutely backfire.

Either way, bad for Zathras! (Sorry, I am a huge fan of Zathras myself, even have a character named after him)

To the point though - yes, exactly. There is a chance here to rework the AwA to suit (nearly) all players, rather than hamfistedly force down a simple, rough and divisive solution on all. I understand that it would cost ZOS a bit of prestige to do so, even a a bit of resources, but ZOS needs to remember that we are the customers. Do you want to cater to one extreme or the other, or do you want to maximise a big, happy fanbase that can go on to recommend your game to many others? Sometimes it is better to show humility and consideration than to just rush things into existence.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · February 2022

nightstrike wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

Please do not roll this out as currently designed. Send it back to the drawing board and account for the fact that there are people, myself included, who do not want this feature at all.

Perhaps try monetizing it like with skill points. Charge crowns to insta-get the achievements.

Now nobody will want it
What about the reverse pay to keep it character bound? Less fun, yeah thats what i taught

Paying for an existing feature we already have doesn't make much sense. Paying for a new feature is a well worn path. And it matches nicely with how skills for crowns are already implemented.

In any case, please don't roll this out until it's in a state that doesn't cause so much upheaval.

Not sure they could charge for it now that it was announced as part of the free update anyway

nightstrike · February 2022

Mephit wrote: »

It’s not just quests and map completion though is it… it’s the RPG stuff like thief / dark brotherhood achievements.. hit lists, murder sprees, various DLC museum collection / exploration pieces, havocrels, portals… fishing… the NPCs you interact with, the different things they say depending on what your character has done.. the immersion. The original exploration achievements that kept us all starting new characters, to do it over again x years later.

This is content we have paid for you are removing!

Stop trying to convert this (soon to be ex) beautiful RPG into some dumb console trophy rush to the end game fest!

I really just don't get it!!

Some pointless ZOS admin will probably edit this… perhaps instead you could try reading the feedback instead and maybe respond? You know like you have promised?

So angry

I completely agree with this description. For me, I want to actually earn my achievements. That is a little difficult given how some of them work, so I have a character that does whatever he does to be able to progress during an event (opening a zone I haven't gotten to yet, completing a dungeon while getting carried, etc.) I have another character for role playing, carefully arranged so that if I complete a zone, *I* completed the zone.

This is how I play. This change is completely removing how I play. How does this fit into "play the way you want"?

Would it really hurt anything to have this change be optional?

This is a growing trend with the current crop of ESO developers. They seem to be making more than a few changes lately that boil down to removing choice and smacking the easy button. Is that what modern game design is now? Watch a movie instead of write one? And we pay their salaries to do this?

_Zathras_ · February 2022

Zezin wrote: »

There is a chance here to rework the AwA to suit (nearly) all players, rather than hamfistedly force down a simple, rough and divisive solution on all.

Either way, bad for Zathras!

The thing that would be good for Zathras, is to fix the communication problem.

@ZOS_GinaBruno wrote this on the Forums:

"We've had some initial conversations amongst our team to discuss ways to improve communication across the board and some different things we could try...rest assured we are actively looking at ways to improve."

^ That is very recent history. 3 weeks ago. So..why has the ball dropped again, on such an important issue? As @ZOS_Kevin called it, "a hot button issue", as this thread (as of writing this) has 1.5K replies and 37.3K views.

Literally, anything reassuring would be awesome right about now. Even, "Hey folks, as mentioned we are still working on a detailed Q&A for you who are invested in this direct discussion, as well as the greater ESO community. We're hoping to get that to you very early next week. The devil is in the details! Until then, here are a few things we want to let you know about the upcoming AWA changes that will hopefully set minds at ease from both sides of this debate.."

This isn't my first rodeo. I have seen this all play out in one iteration or another from many studios. While the AWA certainly is the main issue, again we slam against the wall of the global communication failure to their customers. Yes, we are players frolicking around in a video game, but we are customers and adults who do deserve better than what we have been receiving so far.

Arunei · February 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation...

I am trying to prevent its implementation because it will completely destroy the way I have enjoyed playing this game for many years. I love this game and sincerely hope they pull this mess until they can find a much less disruptive way to implement it.

And that why some are againt you, sure you have your reason but so does people who want it to go trough. You actively try to stop the Qol they have been asking for years

All AWA does for a player is help them skip actually playing the game. That's not quality of life and it has very detrimental effects for those of us who enjoy playing each character as individuals.

You do realize your definition of QoL and the way you play the game aren't the "correct" ones, right? Just because you don't see something as a QoL change doesn't make it so, and just because you like to manually replay content doesn't make it the only way to enjoy the game. You act like people who want this are maliciously out to get you and destroy how you play without giving any thought to how others might enjoy the game. Especially given how most people don't actually want this in its current form and would prefer it be delayed until a system that works better for everyone can be implemented instead.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Elsonso · February 2022

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

There is a chance here to rework the AwA to suit (nearly) all players, rather than hamfistedly force down a simple, rough and divisive solution on all.

Either way, bad for Zathras!

The thing that would be good for Zathras, is to fix the communication problem.

After @ZOS_GinaBruno wrote this on the Forums:

"We've had some initial conversations amongst our team to discuss ways to improve communication across the board and some different things we could try...rest assured we are actively looking at ways to improve."

^ That is very recent history. 3 weeks ago. So..why has the ball dropped again, on such an important issue? As @ZOS_Kevin called it, "a hot button issue", as this thread (as of writing this) has 1.5K replies and 37.3K views.

Just a quick comment. People, or at least a couple people, are waiting around for the holy Q&A to come down from the mountain. What ZOS should be doing is posting questions and answers in here, seeing if people think that the question has been answered, tune answer as necessary. Then, after PTS and before release, collect all the questions and updated answers and publish them as a single document. More work, and we would be at 37k replies

, but I think better results.

nightstrike · February 2022

Elsonso wrote: »

Just a quick comment. People, or at least a couple people, are waiting around for the holy Q&A to come down from the mountain. What ZOS should be doing is posting questions and answers in here, seeing if people think that the question has been answered, tune answer as necessary. Then, after PTS and before release, collect all the questions and updated answers and publish them as a single document. More work, and we would be at 37k replies , but I think better results.

Will a Q&A really help? Who is asking the questions and who is giving the answers? I would prefer it if ZOS asked us questions, and we answered, and our answers drove the design.

_Zathras_ · February 2022

Elsonso wrote: »

More work, and we would be at 37k replies , but I think better results.

I agree.

Currently, because the community is in a communications blackout, people are spending far too much time second guessing their intent. As you noted, better communication would have cut down on at least several hundred redundant replies for them to wade through.

But here we are, knee deep in soup, rather than actively communicating with them.