Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »nightstrike wrote: »Please do not roll this out as currently designed. Send it back to the drawing board and account for the fact that there are people, myself included, who do not want this feature at all.
Perhaps try monetizing it like with skill points. Charge crowns to insta-get the achievements.
Now nobody will want it
What about the reverse pay to keep it character bound? Less fun, yeah thats what i taught
You do realize your definition of QoL and the way you play the game aren't the "correct" ones, right? Just because you don't see something as a QoL change doesn't make it so, and just because you like to manually replay content doesn't make it the only way to enjoy the game. You act like people who want this are maliciously out to get you and destroy how you play without giving any thought to how others might enjoy the game. Especially given how most people don't actually want this in its current form and would prefer it be delayed until a system that works better for everyone can be implemented instead.SilverBride wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation...
I am trying to prevent its implementation because it will completely destroy the way I have enjoyed playing this game for many years. I love this game and sincerely hope they pull this mess until they can find a much less disruptive way to implement it.
And that why some are againt you, sure you have your reason but so does people who want it to go trough. You actively try to stop the Qol they have been asking for years
All AWA does for a player is help them skip actually playing the game. That's not quality of life and it has very detrimental effects for those of us who enjoy playing each character as individuals.
[snip]
You do realize your definition of QoL and the way you play the game aren't the "correct" ones, right? Just because you don't see something as a QoL change doesn't make it so, and just because you like to manually replay content doesn't make it the only way to enjoy the game.
Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »nightstrike wrote: »Please do not roll this out as currently designed. Send it back to the drawing board and account for the fact that there are people, myself included, who do not want this feature at all.
Perhaps try monetizing it like with skill points. Charge crowns to insta-get the achievements.
Now nobody will want it
What about the reverse pay to keep it character bound? Less fun, yeah thats what i taught
jad11mumbler wrote: »I dislike this change and the precedence it sets.
I would prefer it to stay the same vs what we are getting currently.
I'd be okay with showing both character, and accont achievements as others have gone into but,
I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
jad11mumbler wrote: »I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
jad11mumbler wrote: »I dislike this change and the precedence it sets.
I would prefer it to stay the same vs what we are getting currently.
I'd be okay with showing both character, and accont achievements as others have gone into but,
I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
nightstrike wrote: »jad11mumbler wrote: »I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
I honestly wonder where they get their ideas from in the first place. Somebody had to sit down and think that this was a good idea, and then actively ignore 51 pages of complaints about it. How does that process actually work? I mean, at my job, I sit in design meetings, and we talk about customer needs and resource planning. Something like this would be a red flag that says "stop doing that". I can't really fathom how decision processes like this work where you implement a hated feature and force it to roll out for some unknown reason. Maybe someone high up the chain plays the game with only their main character and wants it this way?
It just seems so poorly thought out, so poorly designed, so rushed to deploy, so ignorant of customer needs.... How do you as a developer come to work every day and create such bad product and feel good about your job? I don't get it.
nightstrike wrote: »jad11mumbler wrote: »I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
I honestly wonder where they get their ideas from in the first place. Somebody had to sit down and think that this was a good idea, and then actively ignore 51 pages of complaints about it. How does that process actually work? I mean, at my job, I sit in design meetings, and we talk about customer needs and resource planning. Something like this would be a red flag that says "stop doing that". I can't really fathom how decision processes like this work where you implement a hated feature and force it to roll out for some unknown reason. Maybe someone high up the chain plays the game with only their main character and wants it this way?
It just seems so poorly thought out, so poorly designed, so rushed to deploy, so ignorant of customer needs.... How do you as a developer come to work every day and create such bad product and feel good about your job? I don't get it.
51 pages for & against AWA, and plenty of the posts from both sides are the same players boosting page count by sharing their opinion over and over. This thread hardly reflects all the players in ESO, a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of players.
Years of forum requests for AWA, email survey (not sure if AWA was in it, new races was if I remember right), twitch streams, social media, etc...AWA was not pulled from the air with out reason. Population won't collapse, the exaggerations/hyperbole could be toned down considering some frustrations.
No need to set the tone this is all viewed in a negative perspective?
& to also add, from a learned PvP player (mostly), this is not our game, those characters are not ours, and we don't pull 50+ hours at ZOS working on this. A little perspective towards the people at ZOS that have spent a lot of time working on this, & probably proud of their hard work.
alberichtano wrote: »nightstrike wrote: »jad11mumbler wrote: »I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
I honestly wonder where they get their ideas from in the first place. Somebody had to sit down and think that this was a good idea, and then actively ignore 51 pages of complaints about it. How does that process actually work? I mean, at my job, I sit in design meetings, and we talk about customer needs and resource planning. Something like this would be a red flag that says "stop doing that". I can't really fathom how decision processes like this work where you implement a hated feature and force it to roll out for some unknown reason. Maybe someone high up the chain plays the game with only their main character and wants it this way?
It just seems so poorly thought out, so poorly designed, so rushed to deploy, so ignorant of customer needs.... How do you as a developer come to work every day and create such bad product and feel good about your job? I don't get it.
51 pages for & against AWA, and plenty of the posts from both sides are the same players boosting page count by sharing their opinion over and over. This thread hardly reflects all the players in ESO, a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of players.
Years of forum requests for AWA, email survey (not sure if AWA was in it, new races was if I remember right), twitch streams, social media, etc...AWA was not pulled from the air with out reason. Population won't collapse, the exaggerations/hyperbole could be toned down considering some frustrations.
No need to set the tone this is all viewed in a negative perspective?
& to also add, from a learned PvP player (mostly), this is not our game, those characters are not ours, and we don't pull 50+ hours at ZOS working on this. A little perspective towards the people at ZOS that have spent a lot of time working on this, & probably proud of their hard work.
But that's just it - for whom are they doing this work? What is the point of working hard towards a goal that is generally unpopular and divisive? I don't think anyone wants this to be the fruit of their labor.
The thread, as I have read it, has, with a few notable exceptions, never been for or against AwA - but how it is implemented. I can't recall anyone being all out against AwA at all, but only at its current form and shape. Similarly I have seen many who are very much for AwA criticise the way it is being done. The "pro/con"-argument is barely real, the majority is just plain against it in the present condition.
alberichtano wrote: »nightstrike wrote: »jad11mumbler wrote: »I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
I honestly wonder where they get their ideas from in the first place. Somebody had to sit down and think that this was a good idea, and then actively ignore 51 pages of complaints about it. How does that process actually work? I mean, at my job, I sit in design meetings, and we talk about customer needs and resource planning. Something like this would be a red flag that says "stop doing that". I can't really fathom how decision processes like this work where you implement a hated feature and force it to roll out for some unknown reason. Maybe someone high up the chain plays the game with only their main character and wants it this way?
It just seems so poorly thought out, so poorly designed, so rushed to deploy, so ignorant of customer needs.... How do you as a developer come to work every day and create such bad product and feel good about your job? I don't get it.
51 pages for & against AWA, and plenty of the posts from both sides are the same players boosting page count by sharing their opinion over and over. This thread hardly reflects all the players in ESO, a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of players.
Years of forum requests for AWA, email survey (not sure if AWA was in it, new races was if I remember right), twitch streams, social media, etc...AWA was not pulled from the air with out reason. Population won't collapse, the exaggerations/hyperbole could be toned down considering some frustrations.
No need to set the tone this is all viewed in a negative perspective?
& to also add, from a learned PvP player (mostly), this is not our game, those characters are not ours, and we don't pull 50+ hours at ZOS working on this. A little perspective towards the people at ZOS that have spent a lot of time working on this, & probably proud of their hard work.
But that's just it - for whom are they doing this work? What is the point of working hard towards a goal that is generally unpopular and divisive? I don't think anyone wants this to be the fruit of their labor.
The thread, as I have read it, has, with a few notable exceptions, never been for or against AwA - but how it is implemented. I can't recall anyone being all out against AwA at all, but only at its current form and shape. Similarly I have seen many who are very much for AwA criticise the way it is being done. The "pro/con"-argument is barely real, the majority is just plain against it in the present condition.
Good points. I don't know? Maybe it's a time/money thing, technical, or a base foundation to some future update. Time will tell.
alberichtano wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »nightstrike wrote: »jad11mumbler wrote: »I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
I honestly wonder where they get their ideas from in the first place. Somebody had to sit down and think that this was a good idea, and then actively ignore 51 pages of complaints about it. How does that process actually work? I mean, at my job, I sit in design meetings, and we talk about customer needs and resource planning. Something like this would be a red flag that says "stop doing that". I can't really fathom how decision processes like this work where you implement a hated feature and force it to roll out for some unknown reason. Maybe someone high up the chain plays the game with only their main character and wants it this way?
It just seems so poorly thought out, so poorly designed, so rushed to deploy, so ignorant of customer needs.... How do you as a developer come to work every day and create such bad product and feel good about your job? I don't get it.
51 pages for & against AWA, and plenty of the posts from both sides are the same players boosting page count by sharing their opinion over and over. This thread hardly reflects all the players in ESO, a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of players.
Years of forum requests for AWA, email survey (not sure if AWA was in it, new races was if I remember right), twitch streams, social media, etc...AWA was not pulled from the air with out reason. Population won't collapse, the exaggerations/hyperbole could be toned down considering some frustrations.
No need to set the tone this is all viewed in a negative perspective?
& to also add, from a learned PvP player (mostly), this is not our game, those characters are not ours, and we don't pull 50+ hours at ZOS working on this. A little perspective towards the people at ZOS that have spent a lot of time working on this, & probably proud of their hard work.
But that's just it - for whom are they doing this work? What is the point of working hard towards a goal that is generally unpopular and divisive? I don't think anyone wants this to be the fruit of their labor.
The thread, as I have read it, has, with a few notable exceptions, never been for or against AwA - but how it is implemented. I can't recall anyone being all out against AwA at all, but only at its current form and shape. Similarly I have seen many who are very much for AwA criticise the way it is being done. The "pro/con"-argument is barely real, the majority is just plain against it in the present condition.
Good points. I don't know? Maybe it's a time/money thing, technical, or a base foundation to some future update. Time will tell.
Not sure if people are that patient though. If there is some higher purpose to this way of handling the AwA-issue, it would be prudent to inform players of this. For now we know nothing, and this is just frustrating.
alberichtano wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »nightstrike wrote: »jad11mumbler wrote: »I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
I honestly wonder where they get their ideas from in the first place. Somebody had to sit down and think that this was a good idea, and then actively ignore 51 pages of complaints about it. How does that process actually work? I mean, at my job, I sit in design meetings, and we talk about customer needs and resource planning. Something like this would be a red flag that says "stop doing that". I can't really fathom how decision processes like this work where you implement a hated feature and force it to roll out for some unknown reason. Maybe someone high up the chain plays the game with only their main character and wants it this way?
It just seems so poorly thought out, so poorly designed, so rushed to deploy, so ignorant of customer needs.... How do you as a developer come to work every day and create such bad product and feel good about your job? I don't get it.
51 pages for & against AWA, and plenty of the posts from both sides are the same players boosting page count by sharing their opinion over and over. This thread hardly reflects all the players in ESO, a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of players.
Years of forum requests for AWA, email survey (not sure if AWA was in it, new races was if I remember right), twitch streams, social media, etc...AWA was not pulled from the air with out reason. Population won't collapse, the exaggerations/hyperbole could be toned down considering some frustrations.
No need to set the tone this is all viewed in a negative perspective?
& to also add, from a learned PvP player (mostly), this is not our game, those characters are not ours, and we don't pull 50+ hours at ZOS working on this. A little perspective towards the people at ZOS that have spent a lot of time working on this, & probably proud of their hard work.
But that's just it - for whom are they doing this work? What is the point of working hard towards a goal that is generally unpopular and divisive? I don't think anyone wants this to be the fruit of their labor.
The thread, as I have read it, has, with a few notable exceptions, never been for or against AwA - but how it is implemented. I can't recall anyone being all out against AwA at all, but only at its current form and shape. Similarly I have seen many who are very much for AwA criticise the way it is being done. The "pro/con"-argument is barely real, the majority is just plain against it in the present condition.
Good points. I don't know? Maybe it's a time/money thing, technical, or a base foundation to some future update. Time will tell.
Not sure if people are that patient though. If there is some higher purpose to this way of handling the AwA-issue, it would be prudent to inform players of this. For now we know nothing, and this is just frustrating.
Hey as a PvP player Cyrodiil performance/updates I can understand. We both know, and most should, the people behind making this are not the decision makers. This was approved from the top, and any discussion from ZOS has to be approved from the top.
alberichtano wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »nightstrike wrote: »jad11mumbler wrote: »I don't believe ZoS will change anything based on our fedback.
Its apparently what the casual , newer playerbase wants and They must come first.
I honestly wonder where they get their ideas from in the first place. Somebody had to sit down and think that this was a good idea, and then actively ignore 51 pages of complaints about it. How does that process actually work? I mean, at my job, I sit in design meetings, and we talk about customer needs and resource planning. Something like this would be a red flag that says "stop doing that". I can't really fathom how decision processes like this work where you implement a hated feature and force it to roll out for some unknown reason. Maybe someone high up the chain plays the game with only their main character and wants it this way?
It just seems so poorly thought out, so poorly designed, so rushed to deploy, so ignorant of customer needs.... How do you as a developer come to work every day and create such bad product and feel good about your job? I don't get it.
51 pages for & against AWA, and plenty of the posts from both sides are the same players boosting page count by sharing their opinion over and over. This thread hardly reflects all the players in ESO, a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of players.
Years of forum requests for AWA, email survey (not sure if AWA was in it, new races was if I remember right), twitch streams, social media, etc...AWA was not pulled from the air with out reason. Population won't collapse, the exaggerations/hyperbole could be toned down considering some frustrations.
No need to set the tone this is all viewed in a negative perspective?
& to also add, from a learned PvP player (mostly), this is not our game, those characters are not ours, and we don't pull 50+ hours at ZOS working on this. A little perspective towards the people at ZOS that have spent a lot of time working on this, & probably proud of their hard work.
But that's just it - for whom are they doing this work? What is the point of working hard towards a goal that is generally unpopular and divisive? I don't think anyone wants this to be the fruit of their labor.
The thread, as I have read it, has, with a few notable exceptions, never been for or against AwA - but how it is implemented. I can't recall anyone being all out against AwA at all, but only at its current form and shape. Similarly I have seen many who are very much for AwA criticise the way it is being done. The "pro/con"-argument is barely real, the majority is just plain against it in the present condition.
Good points. I don't know? Maybe it's a time/money thing, technical, or a base foundation to some future update. Time will tell.
Not sure if people are that patient though. If there is some higher purpose to this way of handling the AwA-issue, it would be prudent to inform players of this. For now we know nothing, and this is just frustrating.
Hey as a PvP player Cyrodiil performance/updates I can understand. We both know, and most should, the people behind making this are not the decision makers. This was approved from the top, and any discussion from ZOS has to be approved from the top.
...and that is the problem with the present business-model. [snip] *sigh*
“When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”
_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)
No, achievements that yield skill points are still character-specific. They are excluded from AwA.FeedbackOnly wrote: »So I realized it will now be impossible to tell which public dungeon each character needs for skill point.
Years of forum requests for AWA, email survey (not sure if AWA was in it, new races was if I remember right), twitch streams, social media, etc...AWA was not pulled from the air with out reason.
A little perspective towards the people at ZOS that have spent a lot of time working on this, & probably proud of their hard work.
FeedbackOnly wrote: »So I realized it will now be impossible to tell which public dungeon each character needs for skill point.
This is also a problem for any arena event too.
Please just add something but these characters so we actually know
Literally, anything reassuring would be awesome right about now. Even, "Hey folks, as mentioned we are still working on a detailed Q&A for you who are invested in this direct discussion, as well as the greater ESO community. We're hoping to get that to you very early next week. The devil is in the details! Until then, here are a few things we want to let you know about the upcoming AWA changes that will hopefully set minds at ease from both sides of this debate.."
The silence makes them appear indecisive. And it's entirely possible that they still don't know what they are going to do about this situation. It's easy to imagine that there are varied opinions amongst the ZOS employees, and the fact that this is going to hurt sales makes it more imperative than some simple class/set/weapon balance issue.
You mean the points of Undaunted that are bugged and not working?To be honest, and this may sound harsh, but this specific implementation is neither hard work nor something to be proud of.A little perspective towards the people at ZOS that have spent a lot of time working on this, & probably proud of their hard work.
If you posted the challenge to implement AWA with the least effort possible, then we literally would get what we have now. (Okay, minus a few points of Undaunted that they added.)
Not sure what you mean by "complete", but public dungeon bosses have never been tracked by anything other than achievements. The story quest in each public dungeon is what determines whether the dungeon flips from black to white on the map.FeedbackOnly wrote: »So I realized it will now be impossible to tell which public dungeon each character needs for skill point.
This is also a problem for any arena event too.
Please just add something but these characters so we actually know
The skill point achievements for Public Dungeons are still character based. But you won't have to kill the other bosses for it to be considered complete.
Literally, anything reassuring would be awesome right about now. Even, "Hey folks, as mentioned we are still working on a detailed Q&A for you who are invested in this direct discussion, as well as the greater ESO community. We're hoping to get that to you very early next week. The devil is in the details! Until then, here are a few things we want to let you know about the upcoming AWA changes that will hopefully set minds at ease from both sides of this debate.."
The silence makes them appear indecisive. And it's entirely possible that they still don't know what they are going to do about this situation. It's easy to imagine that there are varied opinions amongst the ZOS employees, and the fact that this is going to hurt sales makes it more imperative than some simple class/set/weapon balance issue.
nightstrike wrote: »Literally, anything reassuring would be awesome right about now. Even, "Hey folks, as mentioned we are still working on a detailed Q&A for you who are invested in this direct discussion, as well as the greater ESO community. We're hoping to get that to you very early next week. The devil is in the details! Until then, here are a few things we want to let you know about the upcoming AWA changes that will hopefully set minds at ease from both sides of this debate.."
The silence makes them appear indecisive. And it's entirely possible that they still don't know what they are going to do about this situation. It's easy to imagine that there are varied opinions amongst the ZOS employees, and the fact that this is going to hurt sales makes it more imperative than some simple class/set/weapon balance issue.
I dunno, to me, the silence is just par for the course. ZOS doesn't really have a habit of communicating their thoughts. They shove things through without listening or responding to feedback with every major PTS change, so I don't see this being much different.
How often is there something other than silence? 3, maybe 4 times in the history of the entire game?