tmbrinks wrote: »

renne wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Balthors wrote: »

If the character logged don't have the achievement but others got it, just add a mention like "this characters don't earn it", or keep the text grey like now, but as I show before, with the list of other characters did. So you still can see and prove you already did the achievement.

Account Wide Achievements will be still available, and we don't lost what we did before, and still keep the pleasure to get achievements on other / new characters.

That really simple and everyone will be satisfied, no ?

No, they won't.

Because no thank you I would like to see the achievement lit up on my main even if it was done on another toon. I would like all toons to have equal chance of being my main without having to grind through everything I've already done on that main on another toon because it still says that I haven't done that content.

Have you been on the PTS to test it? If you "get" the item on another character to complete the collection it will forever say "Earned by: NOT MAIN CHARACTER" That sounds like the antithesis of what you're looking for.

I don't care who it was earned by. I just want to see it earned on my main.

So, you play as an account. So an account-wide overview would be perfect! That's what we're asking for as well. Show both the entire account's achievements as well as how our individuals are doing. Those who play the account can stay on the account-wide view. Those that play individuals can look at the individual characters. Everybody wins! Glad we're on the same page

No, we're not. I don't want an "overview". I want all toons to be the same, to have equal chance of being my main because their achievements are the same because an overview is an overview and it will also say I haven't actually done/found/ground out x number of dailies on that specific character because it's an overview.

renne wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

renne wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Balthors wrote: »

If the character logged don't have the achievement but others got it, just add a mention like "this characters don't earn it", or keep the text grey like now, but as I show before, with the list of other characters did. So you still can see and prove you already did the achievement.

Account Wide Achievements will be still available, and we don't lost what we did before, and still keep the pleasure to get achievements on other / new characters.

That really simple and everyone will be satisfied, no ?

No, they won't.

Because no thank you I would like to see the achievement lit up on my main even if it was done on another toon. I would like all toons to have equal chance of being my main without having to grind through everything I've already done on that main on another toon because it still says that I haven't done that content.

Have you been on the PTS to test it? If you "get" the item on another character to complete the collection it will forever say "Earned by: NOT MAIN CHARACTER" That sounds like the antithesis of what you're looking for.

I don't care who it was earned by. I just want to see it earned on my main.

So, you play as an account. So an account-wide overview would be perfect! That's what we're asking for as well. Show both the entire account's achievements as well as how our individuals are doing. Those who play the account can stay on the account-wide view. Those that play individuals can look at the individual characters. Everybody wins! Glad we're on the same page

No, we're not. I don't want an "overview". I want all toons to be the same, to have equal chance of being my main because their achievements are the same because an overview is an overview and it will also say I haven't actually done/found/ground out x number of dailies on that specific character because it's an overview.

But they'll never be the same. If you did a quest on one character, it doesn't mean you did it on another. That's how the game works. The individual achievement tracking with an account wide overview might as well exist, because you have to re-do content anyway. Account wide achievements doesn't change the fact that you've never actually achieved anything on your brand new alt as a player.

Elsonso wrote: »

<snip>

The people impacted by this are just in the minority, and ZOS really wants to do this. It has to be just that simple.

<snip>

What is your source on your presumption of a minority?

Elsonso wrote: »

OleandersOne wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The people impacted by this are just in the minority, and ZOS really wants to do this. It has to be just that simple.

What is your source on your presumption of a minority?

Assumption based on observation and a number of different factors, not presumption based on sources.

I doubt very much that if they don’t at least fix quests and zone guide objectives that it will be only a minority making a fuss. Those are pretty integral features to most players coming from a TES background and who have more than one character.

The Undaunted leveling changes are also pretty unpopular.

Titles are a mixed bag, with many not caring overly much one way or another, and others being die hard for or against. Same with achievements, tbh.

There are a lot of people who think they want account wide achievements, but will be disappointed by what isn’t included, and by what is lost.

In the end, we’ll just have to wait and see, but my gut is telling me that the devs have designed themselves a system that will make a small group 100% happy, and disappoint, anger or crush everyone else some way.

silvereyes wrote: »

...they can’t very well cancel the feature entirely at this point without a huge loss of face.

I feel the opposite would be true.

[Edited for clarity]

silvereyes wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Since this will soon be the 3rd week of testing in what is normally 5 weeks per PTS cycle.

If no changes to this in patch 7.3.2 which is the third week patch. What are the odds are that its going as is live?

If no changes in X.2 patch, I'd put it at >98% it goes live.

Currently I'd say it's in the >75% it goes live.

I’m pretty sure things will go live in some form. They won’t want to draw it out by postponing. They want to be about their architecture rewrite. And they can’t very well cancel the feature entirely at this point without a huge loss of face.

Fingers crossed that we see some significant bug fixes and/or known issues in tomorrow’s patch notes.

Better to lose face BEFORE you roll something out than to do so after you had to double or triple down on it and then try to save it later.

Plenty of gaming franchises have been sunk making a similar mistake some fairly recently.

matterandstuff wrote: »

Counting down the hours to see if I'm uninstalling the game or spending the bunch of money on a fully-equipped Seaveil Spire guildhouse that was the plan for Update 33 until I realised how badly ZOS had stuffed it on the PTS. I'm venturing it's going to be the former and going back to exploring new games after a really long period of just playing this, given the nonresponsiveness but one can always hope (until the patch notes drop, at least).

Agreed. If they actually go ahead "fix the bugs" like map discovery, delve/dolmen xp and/or museum quest rewards, then we pretty much know where they stand with this.

Mephit wrote: »

renne wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

renne wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Balthors wrote: »

If the character logged don't have the achievement but others got it, just add a mention like "this characters don't earn it", or keep the text grey like now, but as I show before, with the list of other characters did. So you still can see and prove you already did the achievement.

Account Wide Achievements will be still available, and we don't lost what we did before, and still keep the pleasure to get achievements on other / new characters.

That really simple and everyone will be satisfied, no ?

No, they won't.

Because no thank you I would like to see the achievement lit up on my main even if it was done on another toon. I would like all toons to have equal chance of being my main without having to grind through everything I've already done on that main on another toon because it still says that I haven't done that content.

Have you been on the PTS to test it? If you "get" the item on another character to complete the collection it will forever say "Earned by: NOT MAIN CHARACTER" That sounds like the antithesis of what you're looking for.

I don't care who it was earned by. I just want to see it earned on my main.

So, you play as an account. So an account-wide overview would be perfect! That's what we're asking for as well. Show both the entire account's achievements as well as how our individuals are doing. Those who play the account can stay on the account-wide view. Those that play individuals can look at the individual characters. Everybody wins! Glad we're on the same page

No, we're not. I don't want an "overview". I want all toons to be the same, to have equal chance of being my main because their achievements are the same because an overview is an overview and it will also say I haven't actually done/found/ground out x number of dailies on that specific character because it's an overview.

"I want all toons to be the same..." and there you have it. They only want to do things once. This attitude has cost us replayability and 8 years of character history.

Which is ironic, because if you want like me, to repeat veteran content on multiple different characters, you still have to spend 10s of hours repeating the same old running simulator before you can actually "play the way you want".

I have had a thought about this and was wondering if it's really this simple?

1. People on the fourms have been asking for Account-wide achievements for a long time.
2. People on the fourms have been asking for Account-wide mount training for a long time.

They give us number 1 and not 2. Why? Because training mounts makes them money in crown store and Account-wide achievements doesn't. Seems to me if this is correct then someone needs to make Account-wide achievements about money to stop the change.

Am I wrong about this thought?

Salmeyna wrote: »

renne wrote: »

No, we're not. I don't want an "overview". I want all toons to be the same, to have equal chance of being my main because their achievements are the same because an overview is an overview and it will also say I haven't actually done/found/ground out x number of dailies on that specific character because it's an overview.

I admire your patience. [snip]

Saieden wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

"I want all toons to be the same..." and there you have it. They only want to do things once. This attitude has cost us replayability and 8 years of character history.

Which is ironic, because if you want like me, to repeat veteran content on multiple different characters, you still have to spend 10s of hours repeating the same old running simulator before you can actually "play the way you want".

Wanting to have all achievements on all chars has nothing to do with replayability for AwA-fans like myself. I can't speak for all, because as people have different motivations for opposing AwA, others have different motives for being happy about it.
Achievements are a necessary evil for some to play the game. It has literally nothing to do with the rpg side. Achievements are meta gameplay. For the players. Not the characters. The characters do the quests, explore the world. Yes, right now it's buggy on PTS. I'm pretty sure the people who want to have everything DISCOVERED on the map are a minority. I personally highly doubt that the AwA proponents want that. I'm also quite sure that the finished museum collections on PTS are also a bug, and only a very slim minority would love that too.
This is strictly about the achievements. My characters haven't saved Vvardenfell until they finished the storyline, no matter what achievements or titles they have. It's not realistic anyway that my characters run around with a stamp book, and get a stamp in each city they save. Again, that's for the player.
If you want to track your character progress through achievements, that's a valid argument. I don't agree with your methods, but i don't deny you your gameplay. But don't twist it around like people would only do it once.

If achievements are the only reason you replay story content, that's sad, but don't lump us in with you. People like me will replay it over and over. As long as there are quests, the story isn't done. But for the love of the Divines, don't let those of us, who want to have all achievements on all chars, have to redo all trifectas and emperors and other tedious content, especially if we need other players to do it.
That's my view. I honestly don't expect many of you to try to understand it. I don't understand why you oppose AwA neither. It's such a minor sacrifice from my perspective. From my perspective. It's the opposite for others, i fathom.
But with huge changes like this there are people who gain and people who lose. I'm sure it's sad if you're on the losing side. I will be very disappointed and sad if you get your way, and we only get an overview or not even that, because of the vocal opposition. I feel for you, if we get AwAs in this form, but i will enjoy having the tedious grind behind me, finally being able to enjoy the amazing world and stories. I will be overjoyed, truly.

And yes, i'm playing almost every day since release, i do endgame content, there was no time since release where i didn't have sub or later eso+, i bought and will buy crown crates and houses, personalities, other cosmetics too, and all my chars have rp backstories and different approaches to quests.
All my chars have maxed out crafting, research, special grindy skillines and many of them have master angler, and i never thought even for a moment that getting them on those chars that didn't have it yet somehow invalidates them. I never thought that having it as an account achievement means somehow "losing" them. I'm someone who has tedious achievements on multiple chars, and i tell you that i don't mind. I want to replay content to enjoy it, not to stress towards getting some achievement. Again. It was great the first time, but repetition kills the joy. Please, give us AwA. Thank you.

This seems like another case of "what I imagined accountwide achievements would be like must be what ZOS is doing" instead of "what is actually on the PTS". It's not just buggy, the character progress tracking is completely busted, and it's very far from clear that ZOS intends to do any of the major changes that'd be needed to fix it - certainly, the lack of any response whatsoever suggesting that that's something that they're interested in does not bode well.

If we were just losing character achievements, but kept character progress through the world, there would be many less people angry about this change - but that's not the case. It's not that I want to keep track of achievements, it's that I want to keep track of my progress, and the game can't competently do the latter without the former at this point. If I wanted to keep track of exactly what I've completed in your hypothetical run-through of Vvardenfell on a particular character, I'd have to do it in a spreadsheet. But if you're deeply passionate about having content that autocompletes when you run past it, unreplayable content (including entire zone quests) and characters all over Tamriel who behave differently when re-running content on alts because you completed it on another character, and that's what really gets you your kicks, then you do you, I guess?

[edited to remove quote]

aleksandr_ESO wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

They give us number 1 and not 2. Why? Because

you made a logical fallacy by narrowing down the many, many wishes of the players to two

I just choose one of the changes (Account-wide mount training which takes 6 months per character) that have been one of my requests. but feel free to insert your own into my question if it helps you. There are plenty of other examples to use.

Mephit wrote: »

Edit > I just don't get quotes!

@matterandstuff

And many of us have been trying to explain (many times throughout this thread) that maybe you see achievements as a "necessary evil" and maybe you don't see them as "replayability" or "RPG" and maybe "you only want to do them once" but we do... you can't decide that for us. It is very much RPG to have a character "achieve (or not) something".

We are happy for you to have something shiny and new, added to the existing much loved approach.

Two tabs:
- Player Achievements - we will continue to enjoy this as we have for 8 years - you can ignore it - perhaps an interface option?
- Account Achievements - we can all (to differing degrees) enjoy this new QOL change

Easy

[snip]

I agree with you, it's the person I'm arguing with who is enthusing about wrecking the game for most of us.

[edited to remove quote]

renne wrote: »

No, we're not. I don't want an "overview". I want all toons to be the same, to have equal chance of being my main because their achievements are the same because an overview is an overview and it will also say I haven't actually done/found/ground out x number of dailies on that specific character because it's an overview.

Though I do not completely share your point of view, I can understand and accept it. I mean, if someone caught all the fish for the Master Angler, he, as a player, has in fact done so. Why shouldn't that be rewarded, no matter if that is accomplished on a single character or on multiple characters? In the end, one does not have to catch one single fish less if doing that achievement over multiple toons than if it is done on a single toon. The overall effort and dedication stay the same.

If you have to do 30 dailies, one might spend two days to get that achievement, doing them on 18 toons per day if it is account wide. Another might spend 30 days with one toon. At last, both will have done those 30 quests, and will have spend roughly the same overall time in game while doing so, as the quests will have to be done so or so.Why should only one of the two be rewarded?

If you earned Godslayer or Emporer or any of all of the other achievments, you, the player, did so and are rightfully proud. Why shouldn't you be allowed to see that for yourself and to show off to others?

That is why I am advocating for "true" account wide achievements that are given when you earn something once over all your charcters. Not just an overview, no "earned by" tag, but a journal of what you, the player, has achieved in the game over all.
I'd tie the achievement-based rewards to those AWAs - some of them, like e.g. dyes, already are, for some I personally do not understand why they aren't account wide yet, like being able to buy certain houses or furniture, and even those I might disagree with to have them account wide like titles, to have it all consistent and to avoid players feeling forced to redo achievements on different characters as much as possible.

So, I am all in for account wide achievements - as long as they come as an addition and not as a substitute, eradicating the history of the individual characters and taking away almost all ways of tracking my progress per character.
To me, it is not even so much because of role playing reasons. My characters don't have backgrounds, they don't make their decisions "in character" or choose their achievements or skill lines depending on any role they are supposed to play. They are kind of extensions of me, the player, or tools, if you like. But, in the end, they are all individual, unique tools to me. And I want to track not so much their progress, but I want to track my progress with them.

For example my most played character, many would say my main, has started to clear the Aldmeri Dominion zones for Cadwells silver. Though at least one of my Aldmeri characters already got all the exploration and quest achievements in those zones, I am doing them all again. Not because I have to, but because I want to, as this gives me a feeling of completion and satisfaction. All these little achievements popping up help me to keep track what I have done and what not. Taking that away will render that impossible. How should I know if I have completed a dolmen before while doing fighters guild dailies? How am I supposed to find out if I have killed a dungeon boss before while picking up the sky shard? Maybe I was in a hurry that day and it was only in and out for the shard without looking for the boss at all? Don't get me started on public delves and the bosses therein.
If you have earned a master angler on your account, feel free to weare the title on each of your toons. But let me decide to wear that title only on those toons that have earned the title all on their own if I choose to do so.
If you have earned a trifecta title with one of your characters, be proud of it and show off with it! You as a player did it, you earned it, you own it! But why take away the possibility for others to not only do it once but wice or as often as they like if that is what they want to do?

I think the point is that one can't make it right for everyone here. Some say the player earned the achievement, not the character. Some say it's the character, not the player. I say it's the player, but with a certain character, which makes each achievement unique despite being owned by the player. In the end, it's all a matter of personal, individual perspective where there is no right or wrong or better or worse.
And that is why I do not get why ZOS does not try to give us a mixed system that tries to cater to both approaches as best as can be and instead comes up with a system that, after eight years of having per character achievements, completely eradicates the history of countless characters and most ways of tracking their individual progress, leaving so many players look at this in disbelieve, sorrow and/or anger.

There's no thread that showcases the divide in the community as best as this one, which is sad considering the way things are going for some of the communities in the game. That being said I have a couple of points of my own to make:

1. Achievements in games are almost always tracked in an account wide manner, this is the case in all TES games before the launch of ESO and I believe it will also be the case for future TES games, it is also something that most people are accostumed to as it is generally more convenient to see your overall progress in a game.
2. Regarding replayability, I don't think this will affect the game much, I'm nearing 5k hours in the game and still have much content I need to do and things to explore, ESO is a massive game and replayability is not much of a problem, people in general do not run out of things to do in game and when they do... Well let's just say I've completed the same group content with the same character dozens of times, and this is the case for most people, sometimes you do content not because of an achievement but because it is fun to do so.
3. Playing alts is something I've started doing ever since the announcement, I feel much more comfortable chasing an achievement knowing I can do it an the character best suited to the task something I never used to do before, focusing instead on getting everything I could on a single character.
4. Rewards for endgame content are a problem in ESO, we simply lack those and for a long time the titles served as a recompense for doing content a second time, this is a problem with the game itself and should not be a reason to not want account wide achievements, instead we should be asking for more rewards for completing this content.
5. As for those wanting to track the accomplishments of individual characters I ask you this; has it done the associated quests? Is being master angler something you did so only that single character can see it?

Lots of people seem to be dissatisfied with the account wide achievements, but overall this is a massive QoL feature that will benefit not only the great majority of people playing the game but will also remove a barrier some people have in playing different characters.

Zezin wrote: »

There's no thread that showcases the divide in the community as best as this one, which is sad considering the way things are going for some of the communities in the game. That being said I have a couple of points of my own to make:

1. Achievements in games are almost always tracked in an account wide manner, this is the case in all TES games before the launch of ESO and I believe it will also be the case for future TES games, it is also something that most people are accostumed to as it is generally more convenient to see your overall progress in a game.
2. Regarding replayability, I don't think this will affect the game much, I'm nearing 5k hours in the game and still have much content I need to do and things to explore, ESO is a massive game and replayability is not much of a problem, people in general do not run out of things to do in game and when they do... Well let's just say I've completed the same group content with the same character dozens of times, and this is the case for most people, sometimes you do content not because of an achievement but because it is fun to do so.
3. Playing alts is something I've started doing ever since the announcement, I feel much more comfortable chasing an achievement knowing I can do it an the character best suited to the task something I never used to do before, focusing instead on getting everything I could on a single character.
4. Rewards for endgame content are a problem in ESO, we simply lack those and for a long time the titles served as a recompense for doing content a second time, this is a problem with the game itself and should not be a reason to not want account wide achievements, instead we should be asking for more rewards for completing this content.
5. As for those wanting to track the accomplishments of individual characters I ask you this; has it done the associated quests? Is being master angler something you did so only that single character can see it?

Lots of people seem to be dissatisfied with the account wide achievements, but overall this is a massive QoL feature that will benefit not only the great majority of people playing the game but will also remove a barrier some people have in playing different characters.

For people who enjoy the world and completing all the various exploration objectives this is not a QoL feature. At least not in a positive way. For me it will make levelling alts less fun and less reward. It'll mean I'll have to manually keep track of which delves I've got the skyshard from. It means I'll not get experience for doing all these objectives. It means new players who want to do a world boss in Glenumbra won't be able to because everyone else did it years ago. It means that delves and dolmens that don't have dailies associated with them will be ghost towns.

This hurts the game for players new and old. There is no QOL benefit. If you wanted to see all your achievements there were addons for it. All ZOS needed to do was make the rewards like titles and achievement vendors account wide.