SilverBride wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »That wasn't what my post was referring to at all, I think you misread me. I was referring to why people who want AWA think that doing something on one character means they did it on another just because an account wide badge says they did it once. Just because they did greymoor on one character, doesn't mean the story is complete on another, even if they have an account wide badge. I'm trying to point out that the logic that an account wide badge = completion on all characters other than the one they did it on is flawed for story quests, so we should retain individual tracking for it because it has to be redone anyway.
I'm totally aware of the broken quests, I'm purely referring to how some people who want AWA seem to think, not to the fact that some quests are broken and cannot be redone.
I think I did misread and I completely agree with you. I also don't understand why what one character does should mean another also did it. When someone earns a college degree all their siblings aren't all automatically awarded the same degree. It just doesn't make any logical sense.
But my reply still stands as a major concern that needs to be resolved, and the sooner the better.
silvereyes wrote: »fall0athboy wrote: »So I can't exactly find anything that answers this:
Has it been said anywhere about how this is going to work with stickerbook and antiquity knowledge?
The only affect on either system is that after the first character, leveling antiquities skill lines will be about 30% slower without the ability to get the same achievements (and their associated leveling points) on a second character.
A full list of the points becoming unavailable to multiple characters can be found here:
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Antiquities+Achievements
For most people, this primarily affects the speed of acquiring the Keen Eye: Treasure Chests passive, since there's not much else in the skill lines that are of use on multiple characters. Getting to rank 7 to unlock the first level of that passive will be about 25% slower. Not enormous, but disappointing from a system being hailed for reducing grind.
SilverBride wrote: »I think I did misread and I completely agree with you. I also don't understand why what one character does should mean another also did it. When someone earns a college degree all their siblings aren't all automatically awarded the same degree. It just doesn't make any logical sense.
As I work on my second degree It's not necessary to retake many classes from my first degree as those credits carry over. That's my perspective.
fall0athboy wrote: »silvereyes wrote: »fall0athboy wrote: »So I can't exactly find anything that answers this:
Has it been said anywhere about how this is going to work with stickerbook and antiquity knowledge?
The only affect on either system is that after the first character, leveling antiquities skill lines will be about 30% slower without the ability to get the same achievements (and their associated leveling points) on a second character.
A full list of the points becoming unavailable to multiple characters can be found here:
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Antiquities+Achievements
For most people, this primarily affects the speed of acquiring the Keen Eye: Treasure Chests passive, since there's not much else in the skill lines that are of use on multiple characters. Getting to rank 7 to unlock the first level of that passive will be about 25% slower. Not enormous, but disappointing from a system being hailed for reducing grind.
Gotcha thank you.
So as opposed to "unknown", it'll still show the name of the antiquity and the piece of lore attached to it on the new characters?
Necrotech_Master wrote: »fall0athboy wrote: »silvereyes wrote: »fall0athboy wrote: »So I can't exactly find anything that answers this:
Has it been said anywhere about how this is going to work with stickerbook and antiquity knowledge?
The only affect on either system is that after the first character, leveling antiquities skill lines will be about 30% slower without the ability to get the same achievements (and their associated leveling points) on a second character.
A full list of the points becoming unavailable to multiple characters can be found here:
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Antiquities+Achievements
For most people, this primarily affects the speed of acquiring the Keen Eye: Treasure Chests passive, since there's not much else in the skill lines that are of use on multiple characters. Getting to rank 7 to unlock the first level of that passive will be about 25% slower. Not enormous, but disappointing from a system being hailed for reducing grind.
Gotcha thank you.
So as opposed to "unknown", it'll still show the name of the antiquity and the piece of lore attached to it on the new characters?
antiquity and the codex entries are already account wide, all characters can still access those from the antiquity menu right now, so achievements have nothing to do with those
as noted it would further slow leveling speed of the skill lines, but it shouldnt change anything else
ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »...Just because you have a badge saying you did it on an account wide level when you did it on an alt doesn't actually mean anything is complete on your main...
...I just don't get why people think an account wide badge means they did something on another character they didn't really do anything on.
Because that is what is being reported. The Bard's College achievement for the music box and the Precursor achievement for the target dummy are both showing as completed and alts who haven't already done them are now unable to. Who knows what others are also now locked from all future characters.
I rolled my first alt in a few years and only did so after my other 3 had completed every quest and map objective in every zone. I was really looking forward to working my way through the whole story on a new character and having a couple of years of exploring and revisiting old familiar lands and quests again. This is what I love and this is how I play.
I see no reason why this has to be taken away. Give the titles and dyes and whatever else players are wanting AWA for but leave individual character tracking intact.
That wasn't what my post was referring to at all, I think you misread me. I was referring to why people who want AWA think that doing something on one character means they did it on another just because an account wide badge says they did it once. Just because they did greymoor on one character, doesn't mean the story is complete on another, even if they have an account wide badge. I'm trying to point out that the logic that an account wide badge = completion on all characters other than the one they did it on is flawed for story quests, so we should retain individual tracking for it because it has to be redone anyway.
I'm totally aware of the broken quests, I'm purely referring to how some people who want AWA seem to think, not to the fact that some quests are broken and cannot be redone.
Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »...Just because you have a badge saying you did it on an account wide level when you did it on an alt doesn't actually mean anything is complete on your main...
...I just don't get why people think an account wide badge means they did something on another character they didn't really do anything on.
Because that is what is being reported. The Bard's College achievement for the music box and the Precursor achievement for the target dummy are both showing as completed and alts who haven't already done them are now unable to. Who knows what others are also now locked from all future characters.
I rolled my first alt in a few years and only did so after my other 3 had completed every quest and map objective in every zone. I was really looking forward to working my way through the whole story on a new character and having a couple of years of exploring and revisiting old familiar lands and quests again. This is what I love and this is how I play.
I see no reason why this has to be taken away. Give the titles and dyes and whatever else players are wanting AWA for but leave individual character tracking intact.
That wasn't what my post was referring to at all, I think you misread me. I was referring to why people who want AWA think that doing something on one character means they did it on another just because an account wide badge says they did it once. Just because they did greymoor on one character, doesn't mean the story is complete on another, even if they have an account wide badge. I'm trying to point out that the logic that an account wide badge = completion on all characters other than the one they did it on is flawed for story quests, so we should retain individual tracking for it because it has to be redone anyway.
I'm totally aware of the broken quests, I'm purely referring to how some people who want AWA seem to think, not to the fact that some quests are broken and cannot be redone.
What you dont get is that most of us (us refer to people liking the change that i personnaly know off) dont care at all wich caracter gets the acheivement, some want acheivement to say that they did something not the character, some other whant to unlock all acheivement in the game but also like playing more than 1 character so all characters on the account work toward a common goal instead of some being less played so the main get more acheivement and other want them to work exactly like psn trophies and xbox acheivement
For me its not about having the the quest completed on all character as i'll still quest after that achaivement to be gained or not its completly unrelated
fall0athboy wrote: »So I can't exactly find anything that answers this:
Has it been said anywhere about how this is going to work with stickerbook and antiquity knowledge?
Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »...Just because you have a badge saying you did it on an account wide level when you did it on an alt doesn't actually mean anything is complete on your main...
...I just don't get why people think an account wide badge means they did something on another character they didn't really do anything on.
Because that is what is being reported. The Bard's College achievement for the music box and the Precursor achievement for the target dummy are both showing as completed and alts who haven't already done them are now unable to. Who knows what others are also now locked from all future characters.
I rolled my first alt in a few years and only did so after my other 3 had completed every quest and map objective in every zone. I was really looking forward to working my way through the whole story on a new character and having a couple of years of exploring and revisiting old familiar lands and quests again. This is what I love and this is how I play.
I see no reason why this has to be taken away. Give the titles and dyes and whatever else players are wanting AWA for but leave individual character tracking intact.
That wasn't what my post was referring to at all, I think you misread me. I was referring to why people who want AWA think that doing something on one character means they did it on another just because an account wide badge says they did it once. Just because they did greymoor on one character, doesn't mean the story is complete on another, even if they have an account wide badge. I'm trying to point out that the logic that an account wide badge = completion on all characters other than the one they did it on is flawed for story quests, so we should retain individual tracking for it because it has to be redone anyway.
I'm totally aware of the broken quests, I'm purely referring to how some people who want AWA seem to think, not to the fact that some quests are broken and cannot be redone.
What you dont get is that most of us (us refer to people liking the change that i personnaly know off) dont care at all wich caracter gets the acheivement, some want acheivement to say that they did something not the character, some other whant to unlock all acheivement in the game but also like playing more than 1 character so all characters on the account work toward a common goal instead of some being less played so the main get more acheivement and other want them to work exactly like psn trophies and xbox acheivement
For me its not about having the the quest completed on all character as i'll still quest after that achaivement to be gained or not its completly unrelated
There's still almost a month of PTS left, and even though PTS isn't really known for major feature changes, overhauls or removals, it is known for bug fixes. A month is a long time for bug fixes. I would be very surprised if the things you mentioned are not fixed before launch. @ZOS_GinaBruno did specifically say that they are fixing at least two bugs on the AwA bugs thread, but it would be fantastic to get confirmation on which.wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »What you don't get is it's not just about achievements, it's rewards, storylines and quests being locked out.Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »...Just because you have a badge saying you did it on an account wide level when you did it on an alt doesn't actually mean anything is complete on your main...
...I just don't get why people think an account wide badge means they did something on another character they didn't really do anything on.
Because that is what is being reported. The Bard's College achievement for the music box and the Precursor achievement for the target dummy are both showing as completed and alts who haven't already done them are now unable to. Who knows what others are also now locked from all future characters.
I rolled my first alt in a few years and only did so after my other 3 had completed every quest and map objective in every zone. I was really looking forward to working my way through the whole story on a new character and having a couple of years of exploring and revisiting old familiar lands and quests again. This is what I love and this is how I play.
I see no reason why this has to be taken away. Give the titles and dyes and whatever else players are wanting AWA for but leave individual character tracking intact.
That wasn't what my post was referring to at all, I think you misread me. I was referring to why people who want AWA think that doing something on one character means they did it on another just because an account wide badge says they did it once. Just because they did greymoor on one character, doesn't mean the story is complete on another, even if they have an account wide badge. I'm trying to point out that the logic that an account wide badge = completion on all characters other than the one they did it on is flawed for story quests, so we should retain individual tracking for it because it has to be redone anyway.
I'm totally aware of the broken quests, I'm purely referring to how some people who want AWA seem to think, not to the fact that some quests are broken and cannot be redone.
What you dont get is that most of us (us refer to people liking the change that i personnaly know off) dont care at all wich caracter gets the acheivement, some want acheivement to say that they did something not the character, some other whant to unlock all acheivement in the game but also like playing more than 1 character so all characters on the account work toward a common goal instead of some being less played so the main get more acheivement and other want them to work exactly like psn trophies and xbox acheivement
For me its not about having the the quest completed on all character as i'll still quest after that achaivement to be gained or not its completly unrelated
Only the logged in character's achievements get aggregated at any given time on PTS. Logging in as only one character should keep everything working the same as the live server, as long as you log in on no other characters. Historical achievement progress gets copied to the account for that one character, and any new progress will only come from that one character, even though it is tracked at the account level.OleandersOne wrote: »What I would very much like to see from Zos, is their best guess as to a mitigation strategy for those of us who look to lose so much if this change makes it to Live close to what it is on the PTS. Can I only log into one character, until these myriad problems are solved? Can I safely do even that, or is the only strategy that would likely keep all of my character data to not log in at all, until further notice?
We want, need, and deserve clear guidance.
silvereyes wrote: »Only the logged in character's achievements get aggregated at any given time on PTS. Logging in as only one character should keep everything working the same as the live server, as long as you log in on no other characters. Historical achievement progress gets copied to the account for that one character, and any new progress will only come from that one character, even though it is tracked at the account level.OleandersOne wrote: »What I would very much like to see from Zos, is their best guess as to a mitigation strategy for those of us who look to lose so much if this change makes it to Live close to what it is on the PTS. Can I only log into one character, until these myriad problems are solved? Can I safely do even that, or is the only strategy that would likely keep all of my character data to not log in at all, until further notice?
We want, need, and deserve clear guidance.
wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »...Just because you have a badge saying you did it on an account wide level when you did it on an alt doesn't actually mean anything is complete on your main...
...I just don't get why people think an account wide badge means they did something on another character they didn't really do anything on.
Because that is what is being reported. The Bard's College achievement for the music box and the Precursor achievement for the target dummy are both showing as completed and alts who haven't already done them are now unable to. Who knows what others are also now locked from all future characters.
I rolled my first alt in a few years and only did so after my other 3 had completed every quest and map objective in every zone. I was really looking forward to working my way through the whole story on a new character and having a couple of years of exploring and revisiting old familiar lands and quests again. This is what I love and this is how I play.
I see no reason why this has to be taken away. Give the titles and dyes and whatever else players are wanting AWA for but leave individual character tracking intact.
That wasn't what my post was referring to at all, I think you misread me. I was referring to why people who want AWA think that doing something on one character means they did it on another just because an account wide badge says they did it once. Just because they did greymoor on one character, doesn't mean the story is complete on another, even if they have an account wide badge. I'm trying to point out that the logic that an account wide badge = completion on all characters other than the one they did it on is flawed for story quests, so we should retain individual tracking for it because it has to be redone anyway.
I'm totally aware of the broken quests, I'm purely referring to how some people who want AWA seem to think, not to the fact that some quests are broken and cannot be redone.
What you dont get is that most of us (us refer to people liking the change that i personnaly know off) dont care at all wich caracter gets the acheivement, some want acheivement to say that they did something not the character, some other whant to unlock all acheivement in the game but also like playing more than 1 character so all characters on the account work toward a common goal instead of some being less played so the main get more acheivement and other want them to work exactly like psn trophies and xbox acheivement
For me its not about having the the quest completed on all character as i'll still quest after that achaivement to be gained or not its completly unrelated
What you don't get is it's not just about achievements, it's rewards, storylines and quests being locked out.
Did you ever play D&D (Which most ALL fantasy games are born of)?
If you roll a new character, it doesn't get the Lv 8 spells cause your first character did.
The Fellowship had a "Common Goal", but Pippen's story is not the same as Frodo's, Gandolf's journey is not the same as Saruman's.
What I'm saying is for "Most" of us, our alt characters are not just some jumble of toons just working towards endgame (or a common goal), they have personality, individuality, and in some cases, as any of the published authors here will attest to, they are like our children.
I feel you view ESO in a "generic game" outlook. But some of us have played TES games for 20+ years. We are invested in the stories, the lore, the world, and we DO NOT want it or our characters grouped into a generic goo of a MMORPG.
If this goes live in the state it's in, and yes I have tested it for 2 weeks on PTS, it will basically ruin the development of our cherished characters,
My 2 drakes.
Huzzah!
As I mentioned earlier, this maybe a console thing.
This was originally a PC game, ported to console. As a PC game it catered for “character level” replayability, achievements etc.
Are we seeing a shift towards a console game where you earn trophies at account level?
If that is the plan then ZOS should say so and let us PC RPG players look elsewhere.
It will be a 8 year long betrayal but at least be honest…
I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I think I did misread and I completely agree with you. I also don't understand why what one character does should mean another also did it. When someone earns a college degree all their siblings aren't all automatically awarded the same degree. It just doesn't make any logical sense.
As I work on my second degree It's not necessary to retake many classes from my first degree as those credits carry over. That's my perspective.
This is true, and when I was working on my degree credits I earned while waiting for acceptance into the program also carried over toward my degree once I was accepted.
But that was me individually. Everyone who lived in my house didn't also earn my degree just because we were part of the same household, which is basically what an account is.
SilverBride wrote: »
I imagine they do, and it's probably not many, & those that do leave some will definitely be back.
Most casual non forum visiting players that make up the majority will not care, know til after, &/or welcome account wide achievements. Many of us that follow every pts/forums also welcome this change that has been requested for years. Email survey probably has also help push this decision.
Every in-game player I know is really looking forward to this, discords were dancing with this news
Maybe an opt out settings option will be available in a later update.
wolfie1.0. wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I imagine they do, and it's probably not many, & those that do leave some will definitely be back.
Most casual non forum visiting players that make up the majority will not care, know til after, &/or welcome account wide achievements. Many of us that follow every pts/forums also welcome this change that has been requested for years. Email survey probably has also help push this decision.
Every in-game player I know is really looking forward to this, discords were dancing with this news
Maybe an opt out settings option will be available in a later update.
Email survery? Was there one?
wolfie1.0. wrote: »I think I can solve this whole debate. And it it will also solve any of the claims that this is for data base purposes or server reasons, and really everything else. It's the best feedback ZOS will ever have on the topic.
Remove ALL achievements and titles from being earned in game and just toss them up on the clown store.
Cosmetic is cosmetic.
My problem is that when REAL progress (game completion, quest completion, per-character notification of zone and objective completion) is tied to achievements instead of to in-game quest flags), this is when you get foul-ups.
Remember Skyrim? It had a bunch of Steam achievements. You get any given achievement on one character, and it applies to your entire account, BUT, it doesn't affect your actual quest progress on the other. If you defeat Alduin on one character, he remains undefeated on the second. If you discover a new cave on one character, it remains undiscovered on another. If you complete a quest, or clear a delve, on one character, the second character still may not know it even exists, and certainly has not cleared it yet, so it is NOT marked as cleared for the second character.
That's how running multiple characters should work.
wolfie1.0. wrote: »I think I can solve this whole debate. And it it will also solve any of the claims that this is for data base purposes or server reasons, and really everything else. It's the best feedback ZOS will ever have on the topic.
Remove ALL achievements and titles from being earned in game and just toss them up on the clown store.
NOW WE'RE TALKING! I would like to request a clown store please haha.
Been a while since I posted on this thread but I've been keeping a close eye to it and something I've noticed is that the same dozen or so people against the chance are drowning out any comments from people in favor of it.
As I said in previous post I'm not in favor of diminishing anyone's gameplay and so I've taken the stance of wanting for ZOS to postpone this update until they can get a way to track individual characters accomplishments (they're not achievements as those are a different thing as I've explained before). That being said... I've played on the pts and I have no personal complaints on how the system is implemented currently, I like it a lot, the only complaints I have is that I wish more stuff was account wide too(like the rune achievements and motif knowledge).
wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »What I'm saying is for "Most" of us, our alt characters are not just some jumble of toons just working towards endgame (or a common goal), they have personality, individuality, and in some cases, as any of the published authors here will attest to, they are like our children.
I feel you view ESO in a "generic game" outlook. But some of us have played TES games for 20+ years. We are invested in the stories, the lore, the world, and we DO NOT want it or our characters grouped into a generic goo of a MMORPG.
If this goes live in the state it's in, and yes I have tested it for 2 weeks on PTS, it will basically ruin the development of our cherished characters,
My 2 drakes.
Huzzah!
maximusrex45 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I think I did misread and I completely agree with you. I also don't understand why what one character does should mean another also did it. When someone earns a college degree all their siblings aren't all automatically awarded the same degree. It just doesn't make any logical sense.
As I work on my second degree It's not necessary to retake many classes from my first degree as those credits carry over. That's my perspective.
This is true, and when I was working on my degree credits I earned while waiting for acceptance into the program also carried over toward my degree once I was accepted.
But that was me individually. Everyone who lived in my house didn't also earn my degree just because we were part of the same household, which is basically what an account is.
No, an account is a single player, not a household with separate legal entities living in it. If one of your characters break the game rules in game, they aren't going to just ban that character while you play another. One account per person. It is even in the TOS: Accounts are non-transferable under all circumstances. You have sole liability for all activities on Your Account and/or under Your user names.
Marcusorion1 wrote: »Surely there must be a compromise that includes the option to maintain individual progress of the separate characters.
Marcusorion1 wrote: »" One Tamriel " must not become " Tamriel Once ".
" Play it your way " must not become " Play it your way ( the first time, after that not so much ) "