SilverBride wrote: »The main reason I don't queue for randoms is because I don't want to commit to the amount of time a DLC dungeon requires.
Then there is the added difficulty... WHY are DLC dungeons more difficult? What is the reason for this? All normal dungeons should have comparable difficulty so why this distinction?
[*] Remove option to disband a group
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This went years ago with the introduction of vote to kick, you can only disband once the event is complete.
I do think on RDF the crown should always land on the tank or replace the crown icon with a shield icon and drop that on the tank.
spartaxoxo wrote: »If most people don't even want to do those more difficult dungeon at random, then yes, it is a worse experience for players who are paying for content. It isn't a side effect, it is the majority of the experience. If more players actually wanted to do the DLC dungeons, this wouldn't be an issues, but DLC dungeons are already outnumbering base dungeons.
No. It's still a side effect. The system isn't designed to just give you transmutes, nor is it designed just to annoy customers who don't like those dungeons. The system is designed to give paying customers the content they paid for, all else is secondary.
You are already being compensated for doing a dungeon you don't want to do. If you just want a particular dungeon, you can already queue for it.
Of course Zenimax would need to make sure that reward for including the DLC dungeons since they need to make sure players will have a chance to get such a group if they are queueing for a DLC. After all, the reason for the random reward is to ensure a reasonably active queue for all dungeons.
SilverBride wrote: »The main reason I don't queue for randoms is because I don't want to commit to the amount of time a DLC dungeon requires.
Then there is the added difficulty... WHY are DLC dungeons more difficult? What is the reason for this? All normal dungeons should have comparable difficulty so why this distinction?
Actually, I suspect that all of the DLC dungeons are comparable in difficulty, or reasonably so with the later ones. They just aren't the same difficulty as base game normal dungeons, which are not even comparable with each other.
Yes, and the same can be said for people who want to run dungeons for fun. "Why don't you just ask in your guilds or solo it?" Or if you just want to do FGI (or other non-DLCs), you can select them for the specific dungeons.Counterpoint, if it is your intention to grind the same dungeon for gear over and over, why should other players be dragged through the dungeon? Maybe get your own farming group or learn to solo it (fairly easy solo too by the way).
Also true. The current 4 dungeons/year structure has been a bit of a sore spot for a lot of people, and they should start to get away from that:Also, if people are waiting in a queue for hours because no one wants to PUG the dungeon, maybe, just maybe, that is a clear indicator that the DEVs are wasting their time on DLC dungeons. NO ONE WANTS TO DO THEM. If people wanted to do them, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. So leave them to people to find their own groups to complete, or opt into for a PUG. Not default.
This is an actual failing, and I'm surprised ZOS has let that go for as long as they have. They are banking on people liking the zones instead of the dungeons, so subbing for those.If DLC dungeons were base game and available to all players whether they paid for a subscription of ESO plus or for the dungeons themselves it would be one thing. But since the player base is already opted out of these dungeons by default by not paying more money for the game, any arguments for leaving them in the random queue or irrelevant. Paying more money for a game should not provide a worse experience for a player, and right now, including the DLC dungeons in the random queue provides a worse experience for the player base.
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »The main reason I don't queue for randoms is because I don't want to commit to the amount of time a DLC dungeon requires.
Then there is the added difficulty... WHY are DLC dungeons more difficult? What is the reason for this? All normal dungeons should have comparable difficulty so why this distinction?
Actually, I suspect that all of the DLC dungeons are comparable in difficulty, or reasonably so with the later ones. They just aren't the same difficulty as base game normal dungeons, which are not even comparable with each other.
WHY aren't DLC dungeons the same difficulty as the base game dungeons? I'd like to know the reason why they are more difficult, because this is the issue.
spartaxoxo wrote: »[*] Remove option to disband a group
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This went years ago with the introduction of vote to kick, you can only disband once the event is complete.
I do think on RDF the crown should always land on the tank or replace the crown icon with a shield icon and drop that on the tank.
Being able to disable at event completion is still an issue and should be removed entirely. I have seen posts of people using it to grief, and haven't seen a single good use of it that couldn't be accomplished by people just leaving party voluntarily.
spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »WHY aren't DLC dungeons the same difficulty as the base game dungeons? I'd like to know the reason why they are more difficult, because this is the issue.
Because people wanted more challenging content. Dungeons are for people seeking a challenge.
tomofhyrule wrote: »I'll preface this with saying that I don't PUG so however it ends up is not really a problem for me. The only times I run dungeons are when I'm running with friends or soloing anyway.
But...Yes, and the same can be said for people who want to run dungeons for fun. "Why don't you just ask in your guilds or solo it?" Or if you just want to do FGI (or other non-DLCs), you can select them for the specific dungeons.Counterpoint, if it is your intention to grind the same dungeon for gear over and over, why should other players be dragged through the dungeon? Maybe get your own farming group or learn to solo it (fairly easy solo too by the way).
Oh, you want the transmutes, And not only that, you want the easy transmutes.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »WHY aren't DLC dungeons the same difficulty as the base game dungeons? I'd like to know the reason why they are more difficult, because this is the issue.
Because people wanted more challenging content. Dungeons are for people seeking a challenge.
Dungeons supposedly have 2 difficulty modes, normal and veteran, with veteran being the more challenging. Only in this case there are 2 different levels of normal, base game and DLC. I just feel that all normal dungeons should have comparable difficulty.
spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »WHY aren't DLC dungeons the same difficulty as the base game dungeons? I'd like to know the reason why they are more difficult, because this is the issue.
Because people wanted more challenging content. Dungeons are for people seeking a challenge.
Dungeons supposedly have 2 difficulty modes, normal and veteran, with veteran being the more challenging. Only in this case there are 2 different levels of normal, base game and DLC. I just feel that all normal dungeons should have comparable difficulty.
They have moved more towards normal being training for the vet mode. And normal dlc dungeons post Summerset are generally comparable in difficulty. I think if they were to tweak old dungeons they'd more likely move old dungeons up in difficulty rather than dlc down in difficulty, as I think this where they want players doing challenging content together mostly.
Now here I agree, yes dlc dungeons are harder but normal dungeons should not get far into vet territory then lvl 45 can get into them and cp160 players tend not to have relevant gear as in stuff you craft for you low level alts.SilverBride wrote: »The main reason I don't queue for randoms is because I don't want to commit to the amount of time a DLC dungeon requires.
Then there is the added difficulty... WHY are DLC dungeons more difficult? What is the reason for this? All normal dungeons should have comparable difficulty so why this distinction?
AcadianPaladin wrote: »It also begs the point as to why DLC dungeons are so unpopular. I know the reason I boycott them is because they are too hard with overly obtuse mechanics - rendering them not fun. So I don't do them. Perhaps I am not a minority? Ya think?
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »WHY aren't DLC dungeons the same difficulty as the base game dungeons? I'd like to know the reason why they are more difficult, because this is the issue.
Because people wanted more challenging content. Dungeons are for people seeking a challenge.
Dungeons supposedly have 2 difficulty modes, normal and veteran, with veteran being the more challenging. Only in this case there are 2 different levels of normal, base game and DLC. I just feel that all normal dungeons should have comparable difficulty.
They have moved more towards normal being training for the vet mode. And normal dlc dungeons post Summerset are generally comparable in difficulty. I think if they were to tweak old dungeons they'd more likely move old dungeons up in difficulty rather than dlc down in difficulty, as I think this where they want players doing challenging content together mostly.
Normal dungeons are for those who enjoy a normal level of difficulty, not a training ground for a difficulty many may never choose to utilize. I just want to enjoy normal dungeons like those who want more difficulty enjoy veteran dungeons. This way there is a dungeon mode for both playstyles.
AcadianPaladin wrote: »It also begs the point as to why DLC dungeons are so unpopular. I know the reason I boycott them is because they are too hard with overly obtuse mechanics - rendering them not fun. So I don't do them. Perhaps I am not a minority? Ya think?
SilverBride wrote: »The main reason I don't queue for randoms is because I don't want to commit to the amount of time a DLC dungeon requires.
Then there is the added difficulty... WHY are DLC dungeons more difficult? What is the reason for this? All normal dungeons should have comparable difficulty so why this distinction?
spartaxoxo wrote: »Those rewards are for helping with people with a dungeon they need and you are available to do, rather than just for doing a dungeon you feel like doing. People pay real money for those dungeons and their need to be able to do them outweights your desire to get easy rewards.
Yeah sure, think anyone would be happy to concede that point.
But the reality is 9 times out of 10 half the group leaves and you have to wait for the timer to refresh before queueing again and hoping for a non-DLC so the group will stick around.
Elvenheart wrote: »Personally, I’d prefer if they moved the transmute stones reward from daily randoms to the Undaunted pledges, say, 5 stones for each pledge.
As an ESO subscriber, it does annoy me that I'm actively incentivised to drop the sub if I want to run a non-DLC dungeon on group finder.
- People should get to random normal 1's by default and to higher levels only once they completed the previous level Disagree, too annoying a restriction
- Level and CP restrictions should be removed from all dungeons (replaced by previous quality gate) Disagree adds complexity with no clear benefit
- Random should be random - no pre-made groups! Strongly disagree; I rarely am playing with a "group of four" and it's nice for myself and a friend to jump in and be able to run together. There is no leader-board here, we aren't "cheating for a high score" here
- There should be an incentive to run the harder levels disagree, as there are plenty of achievements, titles and such to encourage this. OTOH I would not say no to a revamp (and potential increase) of transmute drops
- Disable quests on higher levels Strongly disagree, just because I'm "higher level" doesn't mean I've not done the quest (or not done it on this particular character)
- Replacements during mid-run should be able to complete pledges Mixed here; pledges have their own rewards (keys and some transmute) and randoms also have their own reward (higher transmutes) when they overlap it's nice, but not crucial
- All (non-secret) bosses should be killed :P Agree in theory, but practically speaking if you want "enough to do a random" it's not the same as "enough to complete the pledge" or "enough to finish the dungeon quest" - I think there is room for more discussion here
- No leaders, all members should be able to find replacements Disagree, but OTOH I would like it if the crown defaulted to the tank. Would mean it's easier to "follow" who SHOULD be the leader AND it would mean other group members would be less sanguine about fake tanks. Win-win.
- Remove option to disband a group Kind of agree, since I hate getting "bumped" from a random when no one else wanted to peek around for chests and heavy sacks