Are fake dds a thing?
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Fake dds are not a thing.When I was newer, I didn't do enough damage to live up to the standards of level 820 players who occasionally either left or jeered at me throughout the dungeon for not killing things fast enough. I wasn't a "fake" damage dealer, I was just really bad at it.
Fake, to me, means someone who either jumps the queue by queuing for something their character isn't built for or someone who accidentally queued for the wrong thing.1 -
oddbasket✭✭✭✭✭
✭A huge issue is the abundance of gear sets available to players but most of them are pretty distant from the few sets that give numbers close to meta.2 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fake dds are a thing.A huge issue is the abundance of gear sets available to players but most of them are pretty distant from the few sets that give numbers close to meta.
Not only that, but I think some people don't even understand the importance of wearing complete sets. I'm pretty sure there are a fair number of people who look up a build online and try to copy it without really understanding the fundamentals of ESO gearing. These people can easily wind up with builds that are even dumber than they would come up with independently.
I strongly suspect that a lot of the DDs we see that do less than 10k DPS looked up a build online and managed to get the idea that 4 green pieces of Mother's Sorrow (or some other meta set) would somehow be better than 5 blue pieces of something else. Then, from the same build, they also get the idea that they absolutely need a monster set, so they start running vet dungeons without mastering normal dungeons first. Finally, as a cherry on top, they get carried just often enough that they think their build is okay, so they keep queueing vet instead of dropping down to normal mode.2 -
hands0medevil✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.Yup, definitely there is more fake dds than fake tanks and healers.1 -
DonHardstyle✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.I once met an dk main tank that accidently queued for what ever reason as dd. That's an fake DD for me.
Fake dd's doesn't exist. For me they are either bad players, new players, or players that for some reason doesn't understand how you do DMG. Calling them fake is rather sad in my opinion. Not everyone is as good as you, me, someone else.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.spartaxoxo wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »
Fake implies deception, which is intent.
Fake doesn't have to be deceptive. It usually is but not always.
If they are being compared in the context of fake tanks and healers though, which is a term usually applied to DPS characters who intentionally sign up as tanks and healers to skip head in the queue line, intent is implied.
Why can't we just call them bad DPS? Why does the word "fake" need to be inserted? That seems odd to me, and I suspect there is an undercurrent of justification for players who fake tank that is the reasoning behind it.
No. fake tank, healer and dd applies to players that chose a role in group finder, and queue for it, even though they don't intend on preforming that role.
A "tank" that holds agro of 1 add (be it by taunt or damage), while ignoring the whole trash pack, and even hard hitting enemies, is a fake tank.
A "healer" that only passively heals allies from some secondary minor effects of his damage skills (not something that can actually keep people alive) is a fake healer.
A "dd" that only light attacks, and ends up dealing less damage than a tank in 3 support sets that mainly debuffs and stacks mobs, is a fake dd.
the roles are very defined. tanks should take most agro to protect allies. healers should heal allies and provide support to them. dds should be a major contributor to the group's damage. or at least enough damage that it is possible to pass the dungeon.
Notice that I am typing from a vet (even vet DLC) dungeon perspective, normal is where people should learn their roles, and therefore is irrelevant when discussing fake roles (like seriously, i had a irl friend that chose the tank role "because she is in melee range, so she takes some damage")
to answer your question about calling them bad dds, well, because naturally they dont plan on dealing the damage quote to pass the content. and your suspicion is baseless on me, since I don't run random normals.
You're making my point for me and don't seem to realize it. This is what you just said to me:
"No. fake tank, healer and dd applies to players that chose a role in group finder, and queue for it, even though they don't intend on preforming that role."
You literally just said in your post what I've been saying, that in the context of fake tanks and healers it implies intent to sign up for a role they don't intend on performing. That's different than just being bad at your role. So I don't know why you said "no" to me when you basically just repeated what I've been saying. haha
Also, I don't run random normals either. So I have no idea what "suspicions" you are referring to that are baseless. I think you may have got me confused with someone else or something, because nothing I have said in this thread pertains to random normals.
Edited by Jeremy on May 27, 2021 7:52AM2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.You literally just said in your post what I've been saying, that in the context of fake tanks and healers it implies intent to sign up for a role they don't intend on performing. That's different than just being bad at your role. So I don't know why you said "no" to me when you basically just repeated what I've been saying. haha
Because your definition is of "intend to perform" is so broad that even someone afk'ing can meet it. You have defined dd so broadly that they don't exist as an actual role because it's impossible not to do it.
My armor is a DD.
The other person doesn't define intent only by the group finder selection, but by if they put in effort to do damage.Edited by spartaxoxo on May 27, 2021 7:31AM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.DonHardstyle wrote: »I once met an dk main tank that accidently queued for what ever reason as dd. That's an fake DD for me.
Fake dd's doesn't exist. For me they are either bad players, new players, or players that for some reason doesn't understand how you do DMG. Calling them fake is rather sad in my opinion. Not everyone is as good as you, me, someone else.
I've seen two actual fake DDs I can remember of, at least in the context of intentionally signing up for a role they had no intention of doing. One was a healer who admitted to me he wasn't a DD but a healer. He signed up as a DD because he didn't want the pressure of being expected to keep the group alive.
The second was a DD who was using a sword and shield and taunting and didn't focus on doing damage at all. He would just taunt then hold block. I've seen a lot of bad and inexperienced DPS, but they are usually at least trying to perform there role. There was no purposeful intent on their part to lie or deceive the group that I could tell.
I think that's probably the only way you get actual and intentional fake DPS, is when they are tanks and healers who want to fly under the group's radar and not be expected to officially tank or heal.Edited by Jeremy on May 27, 2021 7:32AM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.spartaxoxo wrote: »You literally just said in your post what I've been saying, that in the context of fake tanks and healers it implies intent to sign up for a role they don't intend on performing. That's different than just being bad at your role. So I don't know why you said "no" to me when you basically just repeated what I've been saying. haha
Because your definition is of "intend to perform" is so broad that even someone afk'ing can meet it. You have defined dd so broadly that they don't exist as an actual role because it's impossible not to do it.
My armor is a DD
I have no definition of the word intend. I am using the dictionary's definition of the word, which is to say it was the player's objective or plan not to perform the role they signed up for (which is what I assume the poster meant as well when they used the world "intend"). That is just what the word means and I haven't changed it. I have also said nothing about afking. I think you have me confused with someone else as well.Edited by Jeremy on May 27, 2021 7:31AM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.spartaxoxo wrote: »You literally just said in your post what I've been saying, that in the context of fake tanks and healers it implies intent to sign up for a role they don't intend on performing. That's different than just being bad at your role. So I don't know why you said "no" to me when you basically just repeated what I've been saying. haha
Because your definition is of "intend to perform" is so broad that even someone afk'ing can meet it. You have defined dd so broadly that they don't exist as an actual role because it's impossible not to do it.
My armor is a DD
I have no definition of the word intend. I am using the dictionary's definition of the word, which is to say it was the player's objective or plan not to perform the role they signed up for (which is what I assume the poster meant as well when they used the world "intend"). That is just what the word means and I haven't changed it. I have also said nothing about afking. I think you have me confused with someone else as well.
It is their intent not to perform. Everyone knows you have to press buttons to do stuff in a video game. Even toddlers will button mash.
Someone who is only light attacking is making a conscious decision to not care about performing their expected role. It is their plan to do put in no effort rather than trying. Many of them are even actively seeking to be carried.Edited by spartaxoxo on May 27, 2021 7:34AM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »You literally just said in your post what I've been saying, that in the context of fake tanks and healers it implies intent to sign up for a role they don't intend on performing. That's different than just being bad at your role. So I don't know why you said "no" to me when you basically just repeated what I've been saying. haha
Because your definition is of "intend to perform" is so broad that even someone afk'ing can meet it. You have defined dd so broadly that they don't exist as an actual role because it's impossible not to do it.
My armor is a DD
I have no definition of the word intend. I am using the dictionary's definition of the word, which is to say it was the player's objective or plan not to perform the role they signed up for (which is what I assume the poster meant as well when they used the world "intend"). That is just what the word means and I haven't changed it. I have also said nothing about afking. I think you have me confused with someone else as well.
It is their intent not to perform. Everyone knows you have to press buttons to do stuff in a video game. Even toddlers will button mash.
Someone who is only light attacking is making a conscious decision to not care about performing their expected role. It is their plan to do put in no effort rather than trying. T
The landscape content on this game is so easy it's quite possible an inexperienced player could think they had decent damage by just running around light attacking. So I don't think it's fair to assume a DPS who spams light attacks was intentionally trying to sign up for a role they never intended to do.2 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fake dds are not a thing.I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.
I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.
I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.
ESO is the most casual friendly MMO. So there are disproportionally more unskilled players than in other MMOs.
The second part of the riddle is the difficulty of combat on the upper end of the spectrum. Good DPS needs alot of time to learn and improve upon. Most players will/can not invest that time.No Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.Zodiarkslayer wrote: »I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.
I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.
I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.
ESO is the most casual friendly MMO. So there are disproportionally more unskilled players than in other MMOs.
The second part of the riddle is the difficulty of combat on the upper end of the spectrum. Good DPS needs alot of time to learn and improve upon. Most players will/can not invest that time.
Also what contributes to the problem is the simplistic ease of the landscape content/questing and the fact normal dungeons are dominated by high level "speed runners". So newer players don't get a lot of opportunities to train and learn the inadequacy of their builds until they start doing veteran content.2 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Fake dd can not exist, even a tank or healer queueing as dd, for some reason, is not a fake dd. Damage dealer can not be fake... only bad. Hence there is a slide of with for dd. On one side you have new players or people who don't understand mechanics. Then the opposite side is players that know mechanics, maximize builds and practice rotations. Most players will be in-between those two extremes in a bell curve.
Anyone claiming fake dd exist likely do so from a arrogance mentality. Maybe tooting their own horn while sneering at others? But we all started somewhere so try not to disparage those that are ignorant to the game. I occasionally still find people that don't understand the basis of sets, or why to use food.
yeah double standers, literally nobody can be fake dd because literally every role have atleast single skill dealing damage
going this way also also nobody can be fake tank tbh....you dont need to taunt mobs, just outdps everyone and you will have agro on you
so enough is to be top dps in group and easily you are tank at once while being DD
and so we can also go a bit for healer literally everyone can slot any healing skill which doesnt requires resto staff for this and for most content just dont stand in red and you dont need heals from healer
You conflate my answer about one of the three roles with the other two roles to which my answer has nothing to do with. Putting words into my mouth? That is the definition of strawmanning the argument.
Fake dps can not exist because everyone is essentially dps before they take upon any role. Where tanks and healers choose to take on extra roles, anyone who doesn't not tank or heal is dds. Therefore there can not be a fake dd because everyone is at start a dd regardless of how good they are at putting dps in the game.
Fake healers and Fake tanks can exist because their roles are voluntary choices away from the base of dd. But if you are not a tank or a healer then by default you are a dd. The quality if dd is directly tied the the player's ability to learn summed with the community's ability to teach.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Fake dd can not exist, even a tank or healer queueing as dd, for some reason, is not a fake dd. Damage dealer can not be fake... only bad. Hence there is a slide of with for dd. On one side you have new players or people who don't understand mechanics. Then the opposite side is players that know mechanics, maximize builds and practice rotations. Most players will be in-between those two extremes in a bell curve.
Anyone claiming fake dd exist likely do so from a arrogance mentality. Maybe tooting their own horn while sneering at others? But we all started somewhere so try not to disparage those that are ignorant to the game. I occasionally still find people that don't understand the basis of sets, or why to use food.
yeah double standers, literally nobody can be fake dd because literally every role have atleast single skill dealing damage
going this way also also nobody can be fake tank tbh....you dont need to taunt mobs, just outdps everyone and you will have agro on you so enough is to be top dps in group and easily you are tank at once while being DD
and so we can also go a bit for healer literally everyone can slot any healing skill which doesnt requires resto staff for this and for most content just dont stand in red and you dont need heals from healer
You conflate my answer about one of the three roles with the other two roles to which my answer has nothing to do with. Putting words into my mouth? That is the definition of strawmanning the argument.
Fake dps can not exist because everyone is essentially dps before they take upon any role. Where tanks and healers choose to take on extra roles, anyone who doesn't not tank or heal is dds. Therefore there can not be a fake dd because everyone is at start a dd regardless of how good they are at putting dps in the game.
Fake healers and Fake tanks can exist because their roles are voluntary choices away from the base of dd. But if you are not a tank or a healer then by default you are a dd. The quality if dd is directly tied the the player's ability to learn summed with the community's ability to teach.
To be a DPS you have to do more than just do damage though. You have to focus on doing damage. I get where you're coming from, and I mostly agree with what you are saying. But I believe when a player signs up for a DPS role but has no intention of actually focusing on doing damage, but instead they spend their time healing or tanking, I think those can qualify as fake DPS under any pretext. They're very rare, but I have seen them.Edited by Jeremy on May 27, 2021 8:07AM2 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fake dds are a thing.Bad DPS = Someone who puts in effort and attempts a rotation. Perhaps they have a decent build but are sloppy with rotation for X reasons. Perhaps they have not so effective build. a blatantly bad one, but still do a decent rotation to make up for it. Ten times out of ten, a bad dps will always do more dps, then a fake one. Even full pvp specs can do decent with by just adding pve skills and rotations and paying attention to what is going on in a fight.
Fake DPS = That person that somehow manages to hit "even" numbers with fully-spec'd tank, and struggles to out-dps the dedicated healer. The person that is just there light attacking or spamming random abilities. That "dps" that actually negatively affects group performance. The dps that pays -zero- attention to mechanics and dies to the same thing over and over again on literal loop. Like a bad dps in comparison actually contributes and we can pull through even the most difficult dlc vet content with one or even two of these, speaking as my own experience main tanking. But a fake dps is literal -stress- on the group.
I don't know if "fake dps" is as common-place as the forums would make it seem. However I never ever go into normal dungeons. So if the fake dps dilemma is rampant there well, the definition can become a bit iffy. Normal dungeons is where they are supposed to learn. Even the fake ones.3 -
TempPlayer✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.My take is anyone doesn't understand what is required for their role are fake. And for DD, it means doing damage, PLUS a whole lot of mechanics and stuff during the boss fight.
Need to activate something that is out of the way, it's DD's job. Rez in boss fight, DD's job. Migrating damage due to boss mechanic, DD's job.
I don't care if you can single handed do over 200k DPS, but if you are not doing any of the above when needed, you are fake DD.2 -
AnyOldIron✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.Neat litte role boxes have been created. Monkey has learned to exploit neat little role box system for own benefit. One monkey shouts fake tank, while other monkey yells fake dd. Which monkey wins? Other monkeys know that neat little box system creates strife.
This monkey remembers when ESO could be played any way monkey wanted, but now monkey sees only categories, standards and political discourse. Monkey sad for other monkeys
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orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.Agenericname wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Fake dd can not exist, even a tank or healer queueing as dd, for some reason, is not a fake dd. Damage dealer can not be fake... only bad. Hence there is a slide of with for dd. On one side you have new players or people who don't understand mechanics. Then the opposite side is players that know mechanics, maximize builds and practice rotations. Most players will be in-between those two extremes in a bell curve.
Anyone claiming fake dd exist likely do so from a arrogance mentality. Maybe tooting their own horn while sneering at others? But we all started somewhere so try not to disparage those that are ignorant to the game. I occasionally still find people that don't understand the basis of sets, or why to use food.
Not at all. As much as I disagree that bad DPS are all fake, I find the denial that they exist just as unplausible.
If a DD knowingly queues for content that they cannot clear without being carried, they did so under a false pretense. There are no rigid guidelines or enforced standards, its a good faith system.
There are a lot of strawmen in this topic. Understanding the difference between ignorance and fraud doesnt mean anything other than just that. It doesnt mean that youre sneering at anyone. It also doesnt mean that you have to carry them.
If you want to offer constructive criticism, good for you, you're making Tamriel a better place. If you dont want to play with a 7k DPS light attacking DD, thats fine too. Its your time and none of us are entitled to it. Those choices have no impact on intent of the other player though.
This is not a strawman argument, yours is. Your assuming your hypothetical DD knows their capacity before queueing for content or the required minimum of that content. And then you turn around and say there are no enforced standards.
Semantics are important, words have weight. A player can not know they are deficient until that deficiency is exposed through playing if the game. People literally die all over the place to learn. So you are making an assumption that you have NO RIGHT in making, that this player (whom is not you) conforms to your assumption of their intentions.
You then go on to give yourself leave in dismissal of other players who fail to meet your standards and you are right, we are free to do so. But this dismissal of players does not negate the meaning of words and the proper context of semantics.
There can not be a fake dd because dd is the default and anyone who is not a dd has made a conscious decision of adopting a role that is not default. If your getting 7k light attacking dd, you are free to kick them, by they were still a dd. If you get a tank who decides they don't want to tank at the moment, they are a dd. If you get a new player than doesnt understand sets or buffs, they are still a dd.
DD can not be fake because that would imply that one of the other roles is the default role.1 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.WrathOfInnos wrote: »Are people saying that any player that’s not specifically a tank or healer gets categorized as DPS regardless of their gear and skills? That seems like an odd definition to me. Why wouldn’t it work the other way?
“If a player is not dealing damage or healing, they are in fact a true tank, regardless of whether they use tank skills or gear.”
or
“If a player is not tanking or dealing damage, they are a true healer, regardless of whether they use healing skills or gear.”
People do not say this.... the game itself says this. It can't work the other way around because the player must consciously choose to change their role away from dd the first time. Therefore all players are dd until they choose to be tanks or healers. Tanks and healers can be fake but dd can not because it is the default position of all players.
Hence tanks and healers are choices but dd is not a choice only a measure. Therefore someone who tries to tanks and fails is a bad tank not a fake one. Someone who tries and fails to heal is a bad healer not a fake one. But all other failures, not already defined of tanking or of healing, is a bad dd. So no matter what, as a dd you are bad never fake.
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orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Fake dd can not exist, even a tank or healer queueing as dd, for some reason, is not a fake dd. Damage dealer can not be fake... only bad. Hence there is a slide of with for dd. On one side you have new players or people who don't understand mechanics. Then the opposite side is players that know mechanics, maximize builds and practice rotations. Most players will be in-between those two extremes in a bell curve.
Anyone claiming fake dd exist likely do so from a arrogance mentality. Maybe tooting their own horn while sneering at others? But we all started somewhere so try not to disparage those that are ignorant to the game. I occasionally still find people that don't understand the basis of sets, or why to use food.
yeah double standers, literally nobody can be fake dd because literally every role have atleast single skill dealing damage
going this way also also nobody can be fake tank tbh....you dont need to taunt mobs, just outdps everyone and you will have agro on you so enough is to be top dps in group and easily you are tank at once while being DD
and so we can also go a bit for healer literally everyone can slot any healing skill which doesnt requires resto staff for this and for most content just dont stand in red and you dont need heals from healer
You conflate my answer about one of the three roles with the other two roles to which my answer has nothing to do with. Putting words into my mouth? That is the definition of strawmanning the argument.
Fake dps can not exist because everyone is essentially dps before they take upon any role. Where tanks and healers choose to take on extra roles, anyone who doesn't not tank or heal is dds. Therefore there can not be a fake dd because everyone is at start a dd regardless of how good they are at putting dps in the game.
Fake healers and Fake tanks can exist because their roles are voluntary choices away from the base of dd. But if you are not a tank or a healer then by default you are a dd. The quality if dd is directly tied the the player's ability to learn summed with the community's ability to teach.
To be a DPS you have to do more than just do damage though. You have to focus on doing damage. I get where you're coming from, and I mostly agree with what you are saying. But I believe when a player signs up for a DPS role but has no intention of actually focusing on doing damage, but instead they spend their time healing or tanking, I think those can qualify as fake DPS under any pretext. They're very rare, but I have seen them.
Where does it say that? What book of rules are you reading from? And is this knowledge shared with all players? You do not have a right to add extra definitions to the already defined terms.1 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.Well, it depends on people expectation I think.
If I expect tank to have taunt and use it sometimes, then tank without it is fake for me.
But there could be a tank who use taunt but lose it. Who dies from boss. Who spreads the stack instead of getting it together. It is just bad, unexperienced tank. Not fake.
Same for heal. Fake has no healing abilities or doesn't use it.
Really, was surprised this week. Met a heal stamden with bow, who fairly healed the group He wasn't fake if you ask me.
As for dd, honestly, I don't have any expectations there if I go PUG. So I don't think dd can be fake.
Bad dd can block the progress in some dungeons like a bad tank or heal either. They can do poor dps, ignore the mechanics, die all the time, don't res others. It shows them unexperienced, but not fakes.
I think dd can be fake only if you keep the gate like "anybody less 30k dps is not dd". Then dd with 25k will be fake for you.2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »You literally just said in your post what I've been saying, that in the context of fake tanks and healers it implies intent to sign up for a role they don't intend on performing. That's different than just being bad at your role. So I don't know why you said "no" to me when you basically just repeated what I've been saying. haha
Because your definition is of "intend to perform" is so broad that even someone afk'ing can meet it. You have defined dd so broadly that they don't exist as an actual role because it's impossible not to do it.
My armor is a DD
I have no definition of the word intend. I am using the dictionary's definition of the word, which is to say it was the player's objective or plan not to perform the role they signed up for (which is what I assume the poster meant as well when they used the world "intend"). That is just what the word means and I haven't changed it. I have also said nothing about afking. I think you have me confused with someone else as well.
It is their intent not to perform. Everyone knows you have to press buttons to do stuff in a video game. Even toddlers will button mash.
Someone who is only light attacking is making a conscious decision to not care about performing their expected role. It is their plan to do put in no effort rather than trying. T
The landscape content on this game is so easy it's quite possible an inexperienced player could think they had decent damage by just running around light attacking. So I don't think it's fair to assume a DPS who spams light attacks was intentionally trying to sign up for a role they never intended to do.
I don't care how easy it is. It's just a basic fundamental in video games that people press multiple buttons when they are trying to kill stuff. I have seen everyone from literal toddlers to my 88 year old grandma do it. There is not a chance these people genuinely believe they are doing their job. They just don't care to better.
You're acting like these people have the intelligence of a gnat rather than simply prioritizing something else. It's honestly incredibly insulting to both bad dps making a sincere effort, and the people who just focus on something else and simply don't care about filling their role in group content.
I choose to believe that most of them have very basic human intelligence and simply prefer stuff like questing and housing. They don't care about filling the needs of a group because the group can kick them if they don't like it. They are only in group content because they need something.orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Tanks and healers can be fake but dd can not because it is the default position of all players.
DD is a choice. Your defintion is so broad it has no meaning. You can't claim word choice matters and then just ignore the basic principles of defining something. The definition has to be specific enough that the thing you're defining exists.
By your definition, there is no such thing as a dps. Yet one is clearly available in role queue. Therefore, your defintion is wrong. There is something that defines a DD that is not true of a healer or a tank.Edited by spartaxoxo on May 27, 2021 9:28AM3 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.
DD is not a choice, you show me the player that had tank or healer pre-selected at character creation. You are seeking to add your own definition unto an already defined default. How can my definition be wrong? I did not define it, the game did (which the game equates dd as all not being a tank or healer). But you addition is wrong because it's your addition. There is nothing that defines dd, all are dd until they choose not to be. You have no right to say otherwise. Therefore dd can not be fake only bad.Edited by orion_1981usub17_ESO on May 27, 2021 9:29AM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »
DD is not a choice, you show me the player that had tank or healer pre-selected at character creation. You are seeking to add your own definition unto an already defined default. How can my definition be wrong? I did not define it. But you addition is wrong because it's your addition. There is nothing that defines dd, all are dd until they choose not to be. You have no right to say otherwise. Therefore dd can not be fake only bad.
Healer and Tank are also not selected anywhere else but queue either. Guess everyone that happens to have aggro is a tank now. And everyone that has a self heal slotted is a healer because they healed someone. The ring of the pale order is a healer. Maw of the Inferno is a dps.
I'm not adding anything. The dps uses damage skill is an industry wide standard even in games that make you pick your role at character select.
You're taking things away to include everyone.Edited by spartaxoxo on May 27, 2021 9:32AM4 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.spartaxoxo wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »
DD is not a choice, you show me the player that had tank or healer pre-selected at character creation. You are seeking to add your own definition unto an already defined default. How can my definition be wrong? I did not define it. But you addition is wrong because it's your addition. There is nothing that defines dd, all are dd until they choose not to be. You have no right to say otherwise. Therefore dd can not be fake only bad.
Healer and Tank are also not selected anywhere else but queue either. Guess everyone that happens to have aggro is a tank now. And everyone that has a self heal slotted is a healer because they healed someone. The ring of the pale order is a healer. Maw of the Inferno is a dps.
If you are playing solo content then yes, you encompass all the roles simultaneously. But the moment you are playing role defined content such as dungeons and trails, you are accepting the defined roles of the game. This being tank, that does the job of tank, healer that does the job of healer and dd that encompasses all others not defined as tank or healer.Edited by orion_1981usub17_ESO on May 27, 2021 9:34AM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »
DD is not a choice, you show me the player that had tank or healer pre-selected at character creation. You are seeking to add your own definition unto an already defined default. How can my definition be wrong? I did not define it. But you addition is wrong because it's your addition. There is nothing that defines dd, all are dd until they choose not to be. You have no right to say otherwise. Therefore dd can not be fake only bad.
Healer and Tank are also not selected anywhere else but queue either. Guess everyone that happens to have aggro is a tank now. And everyone that has a self heal slotted is a healer because they healed someone. The ring of the pale order is a healer. Maw of the Inferno is a dps.
If you are playing solo content then yes, you encompass all the roles simultaneously. .
I don't see that stated anywhere on character select. You're attempting to add your own defintion.Edited by spartaxoxo on May 27, 2021 9:39AM1 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are not a thing.spartaxoxo wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »
DD is not a choice, you show me the player that had tank or healer pre-selected at character creation. You are seeking to add your own definition unto an already defined default. How can my definition be wrong? I did not define it. But you addition is wrong because it's your addition. There is nothing that defines dd, all are dd until they choose not to be. You have no right to say otherwise. Therefore dd can not be fake only bad.
Healer and Tank are also not selected anywhere else but queue either. Guess everyone that happens to have aggro is a tank now. And everyone that has a self heal slotted is a healer because they healed someone. The ring of the pale order is a healer. Maw of the Inferno is a dps.
If you are playing solo content then yes, you encompass all the roles simultaneously. .
I don't see that stated anywhere on character select. You're attempting to add your defintion.
How so? Who is healing you when you are alone? Who is tanking when you are alone? Who is damaging the enemy when you are alone? How have I defined any of this? This definition is involuntary, if you play alone you play all roles simultaneously.
Now look to group content where role definition is voluntary choices beyond dd. Dd being the default as all others not being tank or healer as defined by their jobs.
Let say a trial has bosses that require two tanks and two healers, and other bosses only require one. Then you have main tank and off tank. When off tank is not required, then by default they still act as dd, albeit lower dps. The same can be said about healer and secondary healers.
DD being the default definition of all group players not currently defined as tank or healer. Therefore as defined by the game only players that are not DD can be defined as "fake" by the community where as DD can only be defined as "bad". You cannot not fake dd, you can only fail the content by not being good.Edited by orion_1981usub17_ESO on May 27, 2021 9:48AM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake dds are a thing.Meanwhile in the actual dictionary.comDPM [sic] is an acronym that means damage per second in multiplayer online gaming. It's used both as a noun (a weapon type, class, or a character capable of massive damage) and as an adjective to describe a weapon's capability.
Or Cyber Defintions.DPS is also used to refer to certain classes of character that are picked for their ability to destroy and kill
Urban DictionaryUsed in MMORPGs, DPS stands for Damage Per Second, and has two meanings. 1) As an adjective, it describes how much damage a weapon or spell does each second. 2) As a noun, it refers to a character class or specialization which focuses on doing a lot of damage quickly, or in bursts.
Etc. DPS are NOT literally anyone that does damage. No game is gonna leave their tanks and healers completely helpless. Doesn't make them dps classes.
I could stand afk and let something that autoattack for me, intentionally leeching and sabotaging your run, and by your defintion I wouldn't be a fake dps. Meanwhile in this game the kick option is given specifically so we can police that kind of abusive behavior because it is NOT being a dps. In other games they may even go so far as to ban your account for it.
When your defintion is so broad it has no meaning. It's not a legitimate defintion. That's how defintions work.
A DPS is a player character who uses primarily damage skills in order to secure kills. That is a dps. While all players can do damage, not all players are dps. Some are tanks. Some are healers. Some are hybrids. Some are roleplayers and don't bother being setup appropriately for any group content.
Only in this game are these controversial statements.Edited by spartaxoxo on May 27, 2021 9:56AM4
This discussion has been closed.