Are fake dds a thing?

Linaleah

Fake dds are not a thing.

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

No. Only bad dds.

this. and I say that as a bad dps myself. dps is the baseline of how this game is played. the only way i can see dps being "fake" is if they are just afk and doing nothing at all. if they are attacking things, they are a dps. they may be terrible dps, but they are not a fake one.

Vevvev

Fake dds are a thing.

When a tank gets kicked from a group for doing more DPS than the DPS, and that DPS number being below 10k, you quickly learn that fake DPS are indeed a thing.

Had my healer outDPS both DPS combined in a dungeon once, and I was only throwing down Wall of Elements a few DOTs.

jaws343

Fake dds are not a thing.

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

No. Only bad dds.

Yeah, labeling a tank or healer as "Fake" has everything to do with identifying a player who is queuing for a tank or healer role as a DPS to avoid the longer DPS queue. They are fake because they are not there for the role they assigned themselves.

Bad DPS is just bad DPS. There are no benefits from a group finder standpoint for a tank or healer to assign themselves DPS and then tank or heal the dungeon. What is being seen are inexperienced players who have no idea how to DPS. Not fake DPS.

And similarly, bad tanks or healers, who fully intend to do those roles, but are poor at them, also exist.

Jeremy

Fake dds are a thing.

Amottica wrote: »

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.

That's basically all this debate is, a tale of two different assumptions.

One side assumes "fake DPS" means players who don't do good damage.

The other side assumes "fake DPS" means players who intentionally lie about being a DPS.

That's where the real disagreement is in this debate, if you even want to call it that. Though it's more of a misunderstanding than an actual debate. For this conversation to actually go anywhere what's implied by the word "fake" needs to be defined.

Goregrinder

Fake dds are a thing.

Vevvev wrote: »

When a tank gets kicked from a group for doing more DPS than the DPS, and that DPS number being below 10k, you quickly learn that fake DPS are indeed a thing.

Had my healer outDPS both DPS combined in a dungeon once, and I was only throwing down Wall of Elements a few DOTs.

Yep. I think if you're someone who doesn't think fake DD's are real, then you probably are the fake DD in your group.

Linaleah

Fake dds are not a thing.

Amottica wrote: »

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.

we know why this is the case. because of the way ESO combat is structured. in most other MMO's there is a very rigid limit of how far you can push your personal performance. animation canceling is not really a thing, unless you refer to canceling the entire ability cast along with it (to move, use a different ability as needed, etc). majority of the performance disparity comes down to gear. that is not so in ESO. while gear does make a difference, it makes a difference as a general percentage of a performance increase rather then flat damage increase. you can put two players into identical gear, champion point setup, class, spec, race. an their performance can STILL vary wildly because ESO rotations are not nearly as forgiving as in other MMO's. errors add up to much higher performance loss. couple that with the fact that ESO has no sticky targeting (so if your aim is even a little bit off, your abilities are not hitting your target at ALL) and that's where your gap comes from.

the only way I can personaly see narrowing it down at all is adding diminishing returns to light and heavy attacks. as in... the damage they deal drops with each subsequent attack made within a certain time frame, until that time frame expires and you get full damage back. that way skilled players still get extra damage over players who do not play at the same level, but the output is still paired down without punishing people on the bottom the way prior balancing attempts always seem to. of course I might also be wrong and there IS not gap narrowing in this game, or maybe there is a solution besides "git gud" or nerfing proc sets etc that i'm not seeing. but.. that is what we are dealing with.

jaws343

Fake dds are not a thing.

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Healers and tanks get immediately kicked from a group if they don't play as how the dd's expect them to play but when a DD only deals 7k dmg he is just bad and should be carried? No.
In vet content a dd needs to know what they are doing,same as healer and tanks.

And bad DPS get kicked from groups in content they cannot handle. It doesn't make them a fake dps. And the bad tanks and healers who get kicked aren't being kicked for being fake. They are being kicked for being bad at their role. Very big difference in queuing for a role you don't intend to fulfill (Fake) and queuing for a role and performing poorly at it (Bad).

amm7sb14_ESO

Fake dds are not a thing.

Amottica wrote: »

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.

I seriously think it is the weaving / animation cancelling system. Everything requires such precise time via button mashing, and that is not how everyone plays.

I know even me it took me a long time to realize that the weaving was even necessary.

Goregrinder

Fake dds are a thing.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.

I seriously think it is the weaving / animation cancelling system. Everything requires such precise time via button mashing, and that is not how everyone plays.

I know even me it took me a long time to realize that the weaving was even necessary.

Well if someone wants to get into the NBA, but they are someone who just doesn't play Basketball the way the NBA requires you to...how do they get into the NBA? The NBA requires you to be able to dribble, shoot 3 pointers, block shots, guard the offense, which is a lot of quick movements, quick sprinting, precise eye-hand coordination, fast reactions...what if someone doesn't quite have those things, how do they get to the top like Lebron did?

Sanguinor2

Fake dds are a thing.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I seriously think it is the weaving / animation cancelling system. Everything requires such precise time via button mashing, and that is not how everyone plays.

I know even me it took me a long time to realize that the weaving was even necessary.

Nah. The dps players that are lower than a support role are that way because they wear gear that doesnt do anything for them damage wise, have bad skills equipped and no rotation whatsoever. Note how in other MMOs there is gear for specific classes that give you the stats you want in your role and abilities that are catered towards the role you play.
Eso doesnt do that. Anyone can choose freely regarding gear, weapons and abilities slotted so people can make a bad choice in every aspect. No one is gonna do high damage as a s&b "dps" with 50k health and animation cancelling is not the reason for that.

Goregrinder

Fake dds are a thing.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I seriously think it is the weaving / animation cancelling system. Everything requires such precise time via button mashing, and that is not how everyone plays.

I know even me it took me a long time to realize that the weaving was even necessary.

Nah. The dps players that are lower than a support role are that way because they wear gear that doesnt do anything for them damage wise, have bad skills equipped and no rotation whatsoever. Note how in other MMOs there is gear for specific classes that give you the stats you want in your role and abilities that are catered towards the role you play.
Eso doesnt do that. Anyone can choose freely regarding gear, weapons and abilities slotted so people can make a bad choice in every aspect. No one is gonna do high damage as a s&b "dps" with 50k health and animation cancelling is not the reason for that.

Yep. Right down the checklist for first class, hall of fame fake DD.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Fake dds are not a thing.

Fake dd can not exist, even a tank or healer queueing as dd, for some reason, is not a fake dd. Damage dealer can not be fake... only bad. Hence there is a slide of with for dd. On one side you have new players or people who don't understand mechanics. Then the opposite side is players that know mechanics, maximize builds and practice rotations. Most players will be in-between those two extremes in a bell curve.

Anyone claiming fake dd exist likely do so from a arrogance mentality. Maybe tooting their own horn while sneering at others? But we all started somewhere so try not to disparage those that are ignorant to the game. I occasionally still find people that don't understand the basis of sets, or why to use food.

iksde

Fake dds are a thing.

jaws343 wrote: »

Bad DPS is just bad DPS. .

tank with 20k-25k health with most skills for dps and taunt is just bad tank even in vet stone garden \_(ツ)_/
they got their taunt to keep agro, they are just inexperienced or not aware how to build for tank role \_(ツ)_/ they are just bad tanks who need to get some time to learn this dungeon or their role

RedTalon

With my luck I normally have to build for hybrid, cause sometimes a tank is new to something, had to do that for the couldron today since the tank was having trouble moving around during the last fight

So it all depends if you are talking pure builds or not, outside of vet stuff hybrids tend to be more viable imho.

Sorry for errors and typos, and remember everything comes down to do what someones over a..l build is, a pure dps with a glass cannon build can get nuke fast no matter the tank depending on their gear and build

Amottica

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.

I seriously think it is the weaving / animation cancelling system. Everything requires such precise time via button mashing, and that is not how everyone plays.

I know even me it took me a long time to realize that the weaving was even necessary.

I was pointed to the ESO logs wite and told to look at a specific raid, I think the newest one, to see how much weaving LAs added to one's damage. For the highest DPS in the top groups it was ~18% but that percentage dropped as the rest of the DPS dropped which told me two things.

1. Going more complex does not come close to explaining why to players do so much more damage than the lower end. We are not talking about an 18% difference.

2. That getting down the basics of the rotation of skills is significantly more important than trying to weave and such.

In other words, it is something else than weaving and this AC you speak of.

iksde

Fake dds are a thing.

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Fake dd can not exist, even a tank or healer queueing as dd, for some reason, is not a fake dd. Damage dealer can not be fake... only bad. Hence there is a slide of with for dd. On one side you have new players or people who don't understand mechanics. Then the opposite side is players that know mechanics, maximize builds and practice rotations. Most players will be in-between those two extremes in a bell curve.

Anyone claiming fake dd exist likely do so from a arrogance mentality. Maybe tooting their own horn while sneering at others? But we all started somewhere so try not to disparage those that are ignorant to the game. I occasionally still find people that don't understand the basis of sets, or why to use food.

yeah double standers, literally nobody can be fake dd because literally every role have atleast single skill dealing damage

going this way also also nobody can be fake tank tbh....you dont need to taunt mobs, just outdps everyone and you will have agro on you so enough is to be top dps in group and easily you are tank at once while being DD

and so we can also go a bit for healer literally everyone can slot any healing skill which doesnt requires resto staff for this and for most content just dont stand in red and you dont need heals from healer

iksde

Fake dds are a thing.

redlink1979 wrote: »

Fake - someone who is not what or who they claim to be in order to deceive others.

So, having a bad parse or no parse at all doesn't mean you're faking the role - you're just being bad at it.

Please don't call fake DD to someone who is just a bad DD.

so how can you truly name yourself as DD role if an support role supporting everyone it team is outDPSing you?

and dont tell me there cant be fake dd because everone dealing some of damage.....but yet roles are focused on spcific job in team like tank and healer lowering their damage a lot for tanking for group, for supporting group to stay alive and to give buffs for more damage for damage roles which which needed to sacriface tankiness to deal decent damage...atleast more damage than actual tank without significant damage or healier build up for supporting

what is reason for being an damage dealer which doesnt have survivability as tank or even healer, not having any support for team and still dealing less damage than build for support healer or tank roles? definitelly not a DD because he is definitelly not build for dealing damage as support roles not build for dealing damage are dealing more damage

Agenericname

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Fake dd can not exist, even a tank or healer queueing as dd, for some reason, is not a fake dd. Damage dealer can not be fake... only bad. Hence there is a slide of with for dd. On one side you have new players or people who don't understand mechanics. Then the opposite side is players that know mechanics, maximize builds and practice rotations. Most players will be in-between those two extremes in a bell curve.

Anyone claiming fake dd exist likely do so from a arrogance mentality. Maybe tooting their own horn while sneering at others? But we all started somewhere so try not to disparage those that are ignorant to the game. I occasionally still find people that don't understand the basis of sets, or why to use food.

Not at all. As much as I disagree that bad DPS are all fake, I find the denial that they exist just as unplausible.

If a DD knowingly queues for content that they cannot clear without being carried, they did so under a false pretense. There are no rigid guidelines or enforced standards, its a good faith system.

There are a lot of strawmen in this topic. Understanding the difference between ignorance and fraud doesnt mean anything other than just that. It doesnt mean that youre sneering at anyone. It also doesnt mean that you have to carry them.

If you want to offer constructive criticism, good for you, you're making Tamriel a better place. If you dont want to play with a 7k DPS light attacking DD, thats fine too. Its your time and none of us are entitled to it. Those choices have no impact on intent of the other player though.

RedTalon

Agenericname wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Fake dd can not exist, even a tank or healer queueing as dd, for some reason, is not a fake dd. Damage dealer can not be fake... only bad. Hence there is a slide of with for dd. On one side you have new players or people who don't understand mechanics. Then the opposite side is players that know mechanics, maximize builds and practice rotations. Most players will be in-between those two extremes in a bell curve.

Anyone claiming fake dd exist likely do so from a arrogance mentality. Maybe tooting their own horn while sneering at others? But we all started somewhere so try not to disparage those that are ignorant to the game. I occasionally still find people that don't understand the basis of sets, or why to use food.

Not at all. As much as I disagree that bad DPS are all fake, I find the denial that they exist just as unplausible.

If a DD knowingly queues for content that they cannot clear without being carried, they did so under a false pretense. There are no rigid guidelines or enforced standards, its a good faith system.

There are a lot of strawmen in this topic. Understanding the difference between ignorance and fraud doesnt mean anything other than just that. It doesnt mean that youre sneering at anyone. It also doesnt mean that you have to carry them.

If you want to offer constructive criticism, good for you, you're making Tamriel a better place. If you dont want to play with a 7k DPS light attacking DD, thats fine too. Its your time and none of us are entitled to it. Those choices have no impact on intent of the other player though.

Think the worse part of any group is when someone trains all the mobs to a boss and dies, and you kinda dont feel like rising them...mean who does that..

Jeremy

Fake dds are a thing.

Vevvev wrote: »

When a tank gets kicked from a group for doing more DPS than the DPS, and that DPS number being below 10k, you quickly learn that fake DPS are indeed a thing.

Had my healer outDPS both DPS combined in a dungeon once, and I was only throwing down Wall of Elements a few DOTs.

An inexperienced DPS could easily perform under 10k DPS without intentionally being a fake DPS. So I don't think doing under 10k DPS is a sufficient standard by which to label someone a "fake".

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Fake dds are not a thing.

This debate is bordering on silly, but fake DDs arent a thing. Bad DDs are everywhere.

Minyassa

Fake dds are not a thing.

"Fake" implies someone trying on purpose to deceive others into thinking they are one role when they are built for another. Most of the explanations I see here are people being elitist about DPS standards and using the term "fake" to insult DDs who aren't as good as they think they should be. That doesn't make someone a fake. New players, people who have trouble learning to weave, people who don't have anyone to help them figure out gear or skills, all these people can get better with time and/or attention and are in no way trying to pretend they are DDS when they are actually tanks or healers and specced for those two roles. It's absurd to equate just not being as practiced/skilled/knowledgeable as others as faking.

Jeremy

Fake dds are a thing.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This debate is bordering on silly, but fake DDs arent a thing. Bad DDs are everywhere.

Agreed.

It's a silly and pointless debate. You just have two sides talking past one another based on conflicted ideas about what it means to be a "fake DPS".

GreenHere

Fake dds are not a thing.

Amottica wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.

I seriously think it is the weaving / animation cancelling system. Everything requires such precise time via button mashing, and that is not how everyone plays.

I know even me it took me a long time to realize that the weaving was even necessary.

I was pointed to the ESO logs wite and told to look at a specific raid, I think the newest one, to see how much weaving LAs added to one's damage. For the highest DPS in the top groups it was ~18% but that percentage dropped as the rest of the DPS dropped which told me two things.

1. Going more complex does not come close to explaining why to players do so much more damage than the lower end. We are not talking about an 18% difference.

2. That getting down the basics of the rotation of skills is significantly more important than trying to weave and such.

In other words, it is something else than weaving and this AC you speak of.

I'm not in the top-tier DPS bracket, so hopefully someone who really understands it better can chime in if I get this totally wrong, but...

Just because ~18% of the best players' damage was Light Attacks, doesn't mean anyone's trying to point to that as explaining the damage difference between "ceiling" and "floor" DPS. Don't mistake 18% of Player X's total DPS for the DPS differential between Player X and Player Y; know what I mean?

It's more about the fact the because Light Attacks make up such a large chunk of good players' damage, it illustrates the importance of nailing the timing of LAs between skill casts. We're talking about literal fractions of a second here, so if you're even slightly off of the "perfect" timing that the game allows, you're simply doing less actions in the same amount of time as someone who's hitting the timing dead on perfect.

So like, I can post parses where LAs are about ~18% of my total damage all day long -- but because my timing kinda sucks and my rotation is sorta sloppy that doesn't mean much. I'm doing the same number/ratio of Light Attacks:skills since I do 1 LA before every skill cast (you know... mostly), but that doesn't erase the fact that better players are pumping out the same exact ratio... only faster.

Forgive me if I misunderstood some wording somewhere or something, but it sounds like you may be conflating X% of a player's DPS with the % difference in DPS that various players have. Which if that's the case will lead you astray really quickly!

Amottica

GreenHere wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.

I seriously think it is the weaving / animation cancelling system. Everything requires such precise time via button mashing, and that is not how everyone plays.

I know even me it took me a long time to realize that the weaving was even necessary.

I was pointed to the ESO logs wite and told to look at a specific raid, I think the newest one, to see how much weaving LAs added to one's damage. For the highest DPS in the top groups it was ~18% but that percentage dropped as the rest of the DPS dropped which told me two things.

1. Going more complex does not come close to explaining why to players do so much more damage than the lower end. We are not talking about an 18% difference.

2. That getting down the basics of the rotation of skills is significantly more important than trying to weave and such.

In other words, it is something else than weaving and this AC you speak of.

I'm not in the top-tier DPS bracket, so hopefully someone who really understands it better can chime in if I get this totally wrong, but...

Just because ~18% of the best players' damage was Light Attacks, doesn't mean anyone's trying to point to that as explaining the damage difference between "ceiling" and "floor" DPS. Don't mistake 18% of Player X's total DPS for the DPS differential between Player X and Player Y; know what I mean?

It's more about the fact the because Light Attacks make up such a large chunk of good players' damage, it illustrates the importance of nailing the timing of LAs between skill casts. We're talking about literal fractions of a second here, so if you're even slightly off of the "perfect" timing that the game allows, you're simply doing less actions in the same amount of time as someone who's hitting the timing dead on perfect.

So like, I can post parses where LAs are about ~18% of my total damage all day long -- but because my timing kinda sucks and my rotation is sorta sloppy that doesn't mean much. I'm doing the same number/ratio of Light Attacks:skills since I do 1 LA before every skill cast (you know... mostly), but that doesn't erase the fact that better players are pumping out the same exact ratio... only faster.

Forgive me if I misunderstood some wording somewhere or something, but it sounds like you may be conflating X% of a player's DPS with the % difference in DPS that various players have. Which if that's the case will lead you astray really quickly!

Oh no. They were not trying to explain the difference between the top and bottom players. It was a discussion about the difference that LAs and AC made for someone's DPS. The information made it clear that those that struggle are struggling with the basics.

If you really think the difference between someone doing 10-15k DPS and someone doing 60k or better is merely LAs and AC then please do provide some actual information such as videos with and without LAs because even though I am new to ESO I think it is far from that simple.

DTStormfox

Fake dds are not a thing.

The term: "Fake dd," was only invented by self-proclaimed 'pro players' who needed a justification for kicking players from their groups, raids and guilds. There are no fake dds, there are only dds, healers, and tanks. Some are better at their role, some are worse.

GreenHere

Fake dds are not a thing.

Amottica wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.

I seriously think it is the weaving / animation cancelling system. Everything requires such precise time via button mashing, and that is not how everyone plays.

I know even me it took me a long time to realize that the weaving was even necessary.

I was pointed to the ESO logs wite and told to look at a specific raid, I think the newest one, to see how much weaving LAs added to one's damage. For the highest DPS in the top groups it was ~18% but that percentage dropped as the rest of the DPS dropped which told me two things.

1. Going more complex does not come close to explaining why to players do so much more damage than the lower end. We are not talking about an 18% difference.

2. That getting down the basics of the rotation of skills is significantly more important than trying to weave and such.

In other words, it is something else than weaving and this AC you speak of.

I'm not in the top-tier DPS bracket, so hopefully someone who really understands it better can chime in if I get this totally wrong, but...

Just because ~18% of the best players' damage was Light Attacks, doesn't mean anyone's trying to point to that as explaining the damage difference between "ceiling" and "floor" DPS. Don't mistake 18% of Player X's total DPS for the DPS differential between Player X and Player Y; know what I mean?

It's more about the fact the because Light Attacks make up such a large chunk of good players' damage, it illustrates the importance of nailing the timing of LAs between skill casts. We're talking about literal fractions of a second here, so if you're even slightly off of the "perfect" timing that the game allows, you're simply doing less actions in the same amount of time as someone who's hitting the timing dead on perfect.

So like, I can post parses where LAs are about ~18% of my total damage all day long -- but because my timing kinda sucks and my rotation is sorta sloppy that doesn't mean much. I'm doing the same number/ratio of Light Attacks:skills since I do 1 LA before every skill cast (you know... mostly), but that doesn't erase the fact that better players are pumping out the same exact ratio... only faster.

Forgive me if I misunderstood some wording somewhere or something, but it sounds like you may be conflating X% of a player's DPS with the % difference in DPS that various players have. Which if that's the case will lead you astray really quickly!

Oh no. They were not trying to explain the difference between the top and bottom players. It was a discussion about the difference that LAs and AC made for someone's DPS. The information made it clear that those that struggle are struggling with the basics.

If you really think the difference between someone doing 10-15k DPS and someone doing 60k or better is merely LAs and AC then please do provide some actual information such as videos with and without LAs because even though I am new to ESO I think it is far from that simple.

Ah, my bad then. Apologies. I misunderstood, and was trying to help fix a problem that didn't exist. Feel free to ignore me, haha.

But no, there's no way anyone can honestly say with a straight face that that all a 10K player needs to do is get their LA & AC in order and they'll suddenly be more than 5X better. Sorry if what I wrote implied that in any way; that was not at all my intention.

RedMuse

Fake dds are a thing.

Agenericname wrote: »

Yes, they are, but not what is being represented here IMO.

Fake implies deception, which is intent. If they intend to deceive their team mates, then yes, fake is the word. If theyre just bad but their intent sincere, then its not really deception. They're just not good at their role.

If they're doing less damage than a true support role, they're not good at their role. That much is blatantly obvious, but it doesnt mean their intent was to deceive.

Here's the thing though. It should be pretty quickly obvious to you as a DD if you're not carrying your weight in group content after which point if you continue to queue as DD without improving then you are indeed intending to deceive your group mates.

Lintashi

Fake dds are a thing.

Fake dds are a thing. If dd is doing same or less damage than healer or tank, it is fake dd, because this person intentionally came into dungeon unprepared to actually deal damage. If healer comes into dungeon without heals, it is fake healer. If damage dealer comes without damage, it is fake dd. There are tons of ways to find your amount of damage - dummies, duels, trying normal dungeons, practicing on overland bosses. There are no dummy for healers and tanks, so damage dealers have even less excuses when they are doing poor job. Bad dd, just like bad healer and tank could be newbie without full skill/gear kit, but once you are over 50, you have no valid reason to do abysmally low damage in group content.

the1andonlyskwex

Fake dds are a thing.

Amottica wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.

I seriously think it is the weaving / animation cancelling system. Everything requires such precise time via button mashing, and that is not how everyone plays.

I know even me it took me a long time to realize that the weaving was even necessary.

I was pointed to the ESO logs wite and told to look at a specific raid, I think the newest one, to see how much weaving LAs added to one's damage. For the highest DPS in the top groups it was ~18% but that percentage dropped as the rest of the DPS dropped which told me two things.

1. Going more complex does not come close to explaining why to players do so much more damage than the lower end. We are not talking about an 18% difference.

2. That getting down the basics of the rotation of skills is significantly more important than trying to weave and such.

In other words, it is something else than weaving and this AC you speak of.

Gold weapons, damage-oriented enchants and traits, specific sets, arena weapons, and group buffs all seem to make significant contributions that often go overlooked.

Weaving might be the difference between 80k DPS and 100k DPS for high-end players, but all of those other things are the difference between 15k DPS and 80k DPS.

There's a reason pretty much every mag DPS guide includes Mother's Sorrow or Medusa, a (Perfected) Crushing Wall back bar, and non-default jewelry enchants (among other things).

One of the major strengths of ESO is that it lets you build how you want, but that strength is significantly counteracted by the fact that there are a few specific build combinations that do dramatically more damage than anything else, and the game doesn't really do anything to funnel people toward the best options. You can't even assume that the hardest things to get are the best (like in most other MMOs). This leaves a lot of people running around in garbage gear that they think is good (because it works fine, or better, in solo content).

Nothing illustrates this problem better than the current debate over proc set scaling. The people who are running optimal or near-optimal builds are pushing for the SD/WD thresholds to be raised above 6000, while the average (casual or semi-casual) player is struggling to even hit 4000 SD (or maybe 5000 WD).