StaticWave wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

100k hp block tank necros that can some how kill people by holding block (which you literally cannot avoid because will be in your face as you land your aoe abilities on other ppl)?

Slot a single target DoT and identify the tank rather than spamming AoE Direct Damage and finding out how you died by reading your recap. But yeah, procs and skilled gameplay can't co-exist, so never mind

Let tanks be tanks they said, but then they hated the thing that made tanks into something that mattered

And then peace finally came to Cyrodiil

You can see who the tank is by looking at his health bar.. The problem is a tank who zergs you down will relentlessly follow the zerg and get in your face, and there's nothing you can do about it. You can't really kill the tank because you risk killing yourself when he holds block with harbinger. You can't really make the tank leave either. The only option left is to run away from the fight, which you have to do anyways as there is a zerg chasing you. There is no counter play for that other than to run from the fight.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To answer some questions that have appeared throughout this thread:


What happens to the sets not on the list that are affected by the test?
Any bonuses that are just stats will work, and you can still equip the items. This includes one-piece Monster sets if it just has stats such as Max Magicka, Max Stamina, Max Health, Penetration, Regen, etc.

Will the change to revert the current healing restrictions also go to console?
Yes, though this won't occur until Update 29 launch next month.

Confirming that the following sets, which were called out throughout the thread, ARE affected by the test:

• Eternal Vigor
• Footman’s Fortune
• Hawk Eye
• Mighty Chudan
• New Moon Acolyte
• Robes of Alteration mastery
• Slimecraw
• Twice-Born Star
• War Maiden
• Willow’s Path
• Arena Weapons
• Mythic Items

StaticWave wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

You can see who the tank is by looking at his health bar.. The problem is a tank who zergs you down will relentlessly follow the zerg and get in your face, and there's nothing you can do about it. You can't really kill the tank because you risk killing yourself when he holds block with harbinger. You can't really make the tank leave either. The only option left is to run away from the fight, which you have to do anyways as there is a zerg chasing you. There is no counter play for that other than to run from the fight.

Fair enough, but you can't always tell the tank from a DD in a tank meta - and there is counterplay, you have to use DoTs, DoTs cannot proc Harbinger's. I understand why you don't have many of them slotted - I've been saying for a while the best solution to a tank meta is to buff DoTs - you can't block them. Trust me, if you played in Heavy Armor in BGs during the DoT meta you would know this.

Buff DoTs, give all status effects the old Bleed effect of bypassing mitigation, and raise baseline Crit Damage a bit, maybe, and the Malacath meta is addressed. Maybe.

You can tell the tank from the DD because the tank will have to permablock for Harbinger to work. They'll also have an abnormal amount of HP before turning goliath. 60-62k HP is usually what they have in human form.

DoTs are useless because they all run the cleanse morph that returns stamina and magicka per debuff removed. At that point you're just giving them free sustain if you try to kill them with DoTs. Did i mention they can also permablock while removing your DoTs and getting sustain from doing so?

Buffing DoTs is a very very very very bad way to balance the game. We've already been through this before when DoTs were super busted. Not many classes have access to a cheap cleanse, and even if they do the amount of DoTs and debuffs you can apply far outnumber the amount of debuffs you can cleanse. The cost for casting cleanse outweighs the benefits.

Buffing damage to counter a tank meta is detrimental to the game, as tank builds that can do damage already saw no reason to invest in damage in the first place. Some of the tankiest DD builds out there can easily win a fight vs a pure DD build. By buffing damage, you're giving the tanky DD build even more killing power to finish the fight quicker.

The best solution is to attack the things that create this meta. Sets like Harbinger and Crimson shouldn't even exist in the game. Malacath shouldn't exist. Health based heals shouldn't exist in PvP. Defense should be nerfed so people have to give up damage if they want to survive, or risk dying if they're in a full dmg build.

Urzigurumash wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

You can see who the tank is by looking at his health bar.. The problem is a tank who zergs you down will relentlessly follow the zerg and get in your face, and there's nothing you can do about it. You can't really kill the tank because you risk killing yourself when he holds block with harbinger. You can't really make the tank leave either. The only option left is to run away from the fight, which you have to do anyways as there is a zerg chasing you. There is no counter play for that other than to run from the fight.

Fair enough, but you can't always tell the tank from a DD in a tank meta - and there is counterplay, you have to use DoTs, DoTs cannot proc Harbinger's. I understand why you don't have many of them slotted - I've been saying for a while the best solution to a tank meta is to buff DoTs - you can't block them. Trust me, if you played in Heavy Armor in BGs during the DoT meta you would know this.

Buff DoTs, give all status effects the old Bleed effect of bypassing mitigation, and raise baseline Crit Damage a bit, maybe, and the Malacath meta is addressed. Maybe.

You can tell the tank from the DD because the tank will have to permablock for Harbinger to work. They'll also have an abnormal amount of HP before turning goliath. 60-62k HP is usually what they have in human form.

DoTs are useless because they all run the cleanse morph that returns stamina and magicka per debuff removed. At that point you're just giving them free sustain if you try to kill them with DoTs. Did i mention they can also permablock while removing your DoTs and getting sustain from doing so?

Buffing DoTs is a very very very very bad way to balance the game. We've already been through this before when DoTs were super busted. Not many classes have access to a cheap cleanse, and even if they do the amount of DoTs and debuffs you can apply far outnumber the amount of debuffs you can cleanse. The cost for casting cleanse outweighs the benefits.

Buffing damage to counter a tank meta is detrimental to the game, as tank builds that can do damage already saw no reason to invest in damage in the first place. Some of the tankiest DD builds out there can easily win a fight vs a pure DD build. By buffing damage, you're giving the tanky DD build even more killing power to finish the fight quicker.

The best solution is to attack the things that create this meta. Sets like Harbinger and Crimson shouldn't even exist in the game. Malacath shouldn't exist. Health based heals shouldn't exist in PvP. Defense should be nerfed so people have to give up damage if they want to survive, or risk dying if they're in a full dmg build.

Again, if you played in Heavy Armor in BGs during the DoT meta, you would know that DoTs are the solution to the tank meta.

We have been through this, yes. DoTs were super busted. They buffed HoTs. They nerfed DoTs. They didn't nerf HoTs. We were in a HoT meta. Offensive stat scaled heals were overpowered. Roll-dodging while healing was overpowered. They buffed procs. We're in a proc meta. HP scaled heals are overpowered. HP Regen is overpowered. Of course there's other things in the sequence there that happened regarding cast times and such that also furthered the tank meta.

That's not to say you're not right that simply reducing the build environment to 0 doesn't resolve some of these problems, just reduce it to actually 0 then. Reduce everything to plain rubedite armor and save us all the time from figuring out if 3 Trainee + 2 Endurance outperforms 2 Trainee + 3 Willpower, or whatever nonsense we have to call optimization now.

StaticWave wrote: »

DoTs aren't the solution because they also screw over people who aren't in tank builds. There aren't many counterplay for DoTs either.

It's easier to balance the game when procs aren't in the equation. You'd only have to worry about class imbalance instead of all other layers of overperforming things.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Why did they close down the poll-threads that showed that most are against this "test" for 6 more months without double ap being removed while only keeping the biased one (where the poll options wasn't good enough) ???

StaticWave wrote: »

The problem with buffing dots is they screw over people who don't have access to good heals, or access to a debuff cleanse. That's like trying to counter super heals by using defile. It doesn't work because the ones with less heals are the most affected. Buffing damage isn't the answer, nerfing defense IS the answer to the problem.

StaticWave wrote: »

You proposed buffing DoTs to counter tanks. I'm saying it isn't the solution because we've already tried that, and it had a greater effect on non tanks than the actual tanks. It's the same reasoning why buffing defile will ultimately hurt people who have less heals. But if you nerf defense, then people who are already in super squishy builds aren't really affected as much since they don't have a lot of defense in the first place. The ones that stacked into defense will be easier to kill, and they'd have to invest more into damage if they want to compete against people who never had a lot of defense. Does that make sense?

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I am giving feedback in the only form that ZOS understands:

• Cancelling my 2.5 year-long subscription
• Banishing any thought of pre-ordering Blackwood (and likely any thought of buying it at all since all of its content is now completely irrelevant to me)
• No more Crown Store purchases
• Looking for an alternative game to play for six months - and potentially longer if they extend the ban

Someone will surely say: "But you're only one player, you won't change anything" and they're probably right.

But you can only control what you can control and I can control that much.

Beardimus wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I am giving feedback in the only form that ZOS understands:

• Cancelling my 2.5 year-long subscription
• Banishing any thought of pre-ordering Blackwood (and likely any thought of buying it at all since all of its content is now completely irrelevant to me)
• No more Crown Store purchases
• Looking for an alternative game to play for six months - and potentially longer if they extend the ban

Someone will surely say: "But you're only one player, you won't change anything" and they're probably right.

But you can only control what you can control and I can control that much.

@YandereGirlfriend curious, what sets are more important to you than the game? Right now I mean?

nerfherder83 wrote: »

Can you give an update on how and when this will impact consoles?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

Can you give an update on how and when this will impact consoles?