VaranisArano wrote: »This reminds me very strongly of the faction-locked campaign argument in which, when it seemed very unlikely to happen, the proponents of faction locks kept debating in favor of it, while many of it's opponents largely let it slide because "surely ZOS won't indulge them, right?"
But then ZOS did, and though faction lock opponents came out of the woodwork to complain about it, it was too late.
Let's not pretend there haven't been years of debaters saying "ZOS should remove proc sets," or "PVP should be about skill", or even "ZOS should limit the sets in Cyrodiil to help balance!" That's been a fairly consistent, recurring strain in PVP discussions and it's not that surprising that without consistent, vocal opposition that the Devs decided to give it a try.
Then add on the several forum threads of positive feedback for no-proc gameplay, and it's pretty clear that most of the feedback ZOS got was positive. Of course the people who don't like the change are complaining now, but in all likelihood, it'll be Q3 before their feedback gets put into effect.
I also hear some ragging on the minority of forum goers who polled in favor of no-proc sets. Have you considered that some people learned their lesson from the faction lock debate? if you want ZOS to take your side, you've got to advocate for it consistently. You can't just not say anything and expect ZOS to go out of their way to poll you. Really? Since when have they ever polled their PVP playerbase over sweeping changes to see if we like the current meta? If you don't like a proposed change, say something when it comes up on the forums, not just after ZOS has announced it! ZOS may not listen, but at least they heard you before the changes were locked in to the next update.
Otherwise, you end up like many opponents of the faction lock: looking on with dismay as ZOS listens to the fans who did consistently advocate for their desired change instead of what you believe to be a "silent majority" who oppose it.
While I agree, that the silent half of PvPers did not submit feedback, let's face it, there are two simple reasons for that:
1. We have been lied to. We were told this is a test for performance and submitted feedback accordingly. Not at any point have we been told that this is a "gameplay balance" test. We have been tricked!
2. The moment you mention that you like proc sets (I am one of those as I like the extra flavour and visual fidelity to my builds) you are instantly shamed and bullied by the non-proc fans. A friend of mine ended up quitting the game after she advocated to keep the procs because of the amount of abuse she got in game.
All in all. ZOS asked the wrong question and is now interpreting the feedback to suit their own agenda without having to take any responsibility for the outcomes.
barney2525 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »This reminds me very strongly of the faction-locked campaign argument in which, when it seemed very unlikely to happen, the proponents of faction locks kept debating in favor of it, while many of it's opponents largely let it slide because "surely ZOS won't indulge them, right?"
But then ZOS did, and though faction lock opponents came out of the woodwork to complain about it, it was too late.
Let's not pretend there haven't been years of debaters saying "ZOS should remove proc sets," or "PVP should be about skill", or even "ZOS should limit the sets in Cyrodiil to help balance!" That's been a fairly consistent, recurring strain in PVP discussions and it's not that surprising that without consistent, vocal opposition that the Devs decided to give it a try.
Then add on the several forum threads of positive feedback for no-proc gameplay, and it's pretty clear that most of the feedback ZOS got was positive. Of course the people who don't like the change are complaining now, but in all likelihood, it'll be Q3 before their feedback gets put into effect.
I also hear some ragging on the minority of forum goers who polled in favor of no-proc sets. Have you considered that some people learned their lesson from the faction lock debate? if you want ZOS to take your side, you've got to advocate for it consistently. You can't just not say anything and expect ZOS to go out of their way to poll you. Really? Since when have they ever polled their PVP playerbase over sweeping changes to see if we like the current meta? If you don't like a proposed change, say something when it comes up on the forums, not just after ZOS has announced it! ZOS may not listen, but at least they heard you before the changes were locked in to the next update.
Otherwise, you end up like many opponents of the faction lock: looking on with dismay as ZOS listens to the fans who did consistently advocate for their desired change instead of what you believe to be a "silent majority" who oppose it.
While I agree, that the silent half of PvPers did not submit feedback, let's face it, there are two simple reasons for that:
1. We have been lied to. We were told this is a test for performance and submitted feedback accordingly. Not at any point have we been told that this is a "gameplay balance" test. We have been tricked!
2. The moment you mention that you like proc sets (I am one of those as I like the extra flavour and visual fidelity to my builds) you are instantly shamed and bullied by the non-proc fans. A friend of mine ended up quitting the game after she advocated to keep the procs because of the amount of abuse she got in game.
All in all. ZOS asked the wrong question and is now interpreting the feedback to suit their own agenda without having to take any responsibility for the outcomes.
I think you are going a bit overboard. Seems to me that when they make such a radical change as shutting down procs, to see how that affects performance, they will also be evaluating what this effect is going to have on PvP overall.
That's just common sense.
I certainly would not consider it 'lying to us'.
IMHO
Dunning_Kruger wrote: »“ the game is laggier than its ever been let us have our procs” is the funniest thing I have read. Because people also don’t want to admit to just turn off cross healing. Honestly they can turn procs back on if they turned off cross healing. Because despite what people say cross healing we can see now greatly affected performance in terms of what types of gameplay it promotes. Ideally both would be turned off but I’d compromise.
OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »[Quoted post was removed]
SshadowSscale wrote: »Honestly the vateshran destro alone makes me happy that I won't be seeing it for most of the year.... on a side note can we delete that staff from bgs too?
DemonNinja wrote: »goldenarcher1 wrote: »Rewards of the worthy might need a rethink.
Understatement of the year. Basically ALL the rewards in Cyrodiil should be adjusted if they decide to keep this for 6-7 months. Rewards of the Worthy. End of Campaign Rewards. Quest rewards. Golden Vendor. E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
SshadowSscale wrote: »Honestly the vateshran destro alone makes me happy that I won't be seeing it for most of the year.... on a side note can we delete that staff from bgs too?
What's the point of existing of this weapon then?
VaranisArano wrote: »This reminds me very strongly of the faction-locked campaign argument in which, when it seemed very unlikely to happen, the proponents of faction locks kept debating in favor of it, while many of it's opponents largely let it slide because "surely ZOS won't indulge them, right?"
But then ZOS did, and though faction lock opponents came out of the woodwork to complain about it, it was too late.
Let's not pretend there haven't been years of debaters saying "ZOS should remove proc sets," or "PVP should be about skill", or even "ZOS should limit the sets in Cyrodiil to help balance!" That's been a fairly consistent, recurring strain in PVP discussions and it's not that surprising that without consistent, vocal opposition that the Devs decided to give it a try.
Then add on the several forum threads of positive feedback for no-proc gameplay, and it's pretty clear that most of the feedback ZOS got was positive. Of course the people who don't like the change are complaining now, but in all likelihood, it'll be Q3 before their feedback gets put into effect.
I also hear some ragging on the minority of forum goers who polled in favor of no-proc sets. Have you considered that some people learned their lesson from the faction lock debate? if you want ZOS to take your side, you've got to advocate for it consistently. You can't just not say anything and expect ZOS to go out of their way to poll you. Really? Since when have they ever polled their PVP playerbase over sweeping changes to see if we like the current meta? If you don't like a proposed change, say something when it comes up on the forums, not just after ZOS has announced it! ZOS may not listen, but at least they heard you before the changes were locked in to the next update.
Otherwise, you end up like many opponents of the faction lock: looking on with dismay as ZOS listens to the fans who did consistently advocate for their desired change instead of what you believe to be a "silent majority" who oppose it.
While I agree, that the silent half of PvPers did not submit feedback, let's face it, there are two simple reasons for that:
1. We have been lied to. We were told this is a test for performance and submitted feedback accordingly. Not at any point have we been told that this is a "gameplay balance" test. We have been tricked!
2. The moment you mention that you like proc sets (I am one of those as I like the extra flavour and visual fidelity to my builds) you are instantly shamed and bullied by the non-proc fans. A friend of mine ended up quitting the game after she advocated to keep the procs because of the amount of abuse she got in game.
All in all. ZOS asked the wrong question and is now interpreting the feedback to suit their own agenda without having to take any responsibility for the outcomes.
Demonhunter wrote: »The no procs has been very popular with people including myself and a lot of old players/people who quit have come back to the game as no procs makes the game significantly more balanced. I think it is a good that they are keeping no procs going, imagine having to use skills in PvP to do damage and heal so many people have got used to their armor doing it for them. Plus they are going to change the coding of gear such as Seducer to work in Cyro, so there will be more build diversity soon!
You realize most mmorpg's including the classic WoW back when it was very popular used proc sets. All of a sudden people are happy cause their able to survive longer with mediocre sets. I mean is it really skill or just being in a group that's carrying you? I fail to see using proc sets removes skill, just make the proc sets work on a combo move instead of auto conditions. That way you have to work at it so that your proc set triggers instead of a chance of triggering. Or a way to build up combo points and releasing it at the right moment.
Dunning_Kruger wrote: »I just hope they don’t turn on the degenerate heavy attack build sets that promote the laziest lightning heavy playstyle that should have never existed. On god not getting lightning heavied by some rando has made solo/ small scale sooooo much better.
Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »Well if turning it off and back on again doesn't help, turning it off for longer before turning it back on might help.
i realy dont know why ppls are cryin about Crimson. The Set is totaly terrible! Since everyone know how the Profeffect is looking, everyone walks out of it. so no Heal and no damage for you. There are sets like Alessian MUCH better cuz it gives you a constant heal (HP Rec)
And if you just change a bit your playstile you can laugh about dmg procsets, you can easily outplay them and doin also alot of dmg
i realy dont know why ppls are cryin about Crimson. The Set is totaly terrible! Since everyone know how the Profeffect is looking, everyone walks out of it. so no Heal and no damage for you. There are sets like Alessian MUCH better cuz it gives you a constant heal (HP Rec)
And if you just change a bit your playstile you can laugh about dmg procsets, you can easily outplay them and doin also alot of dmg
I couldn't agree more, a SLIGHT adjustment to your playstyle makes Crimson set almost useless. This applies to a lot of other proc sets as well, if you're able to react to your enemy properly you'll live.
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »
The fact is there will always be some meta setups. Looking back at proc meta you could clearly see what sets were widely used by almost every PvPer (Crimson, arena weapons, syvarras, etc.) Looking back at the stat meta before that you could also see what sets were commonly used (Fury, new moon acolyte, clever alc, etc.). In fact, there will also be a meta with these 15 sets (Spriggan, Beekeeper, Endurance,etc.).
If I were to pick between a no rules environment vs a limited sets environment, I would pick the latter every time. The perception that you lose "build diversity" clouds your own judgement. Diversity just does not exist in a game where 80% of the set choices are bad leaving you with only have 6-7 decent sets to use. At least in a limited set environment, skill is what truly matters apart from class imbalance.
You're not wrong but I still think it's insane that sets like Automaton, Willow's Path, and Innate Axiom are going to be put in the same category as more egregious, actual proc sets. There's gotta be a different choice other than the 2 extremes presented.
StaticWave wrote: »LMAO at this point I really feel bad for ZOS. People literally COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. First they complain about procs, then when ZOS disabled all procs including stat based procs, they complain about it. Like man there is just nothing that satisfies you guys lmao. If you want to quit, quit. It'll leave more room for people who genuinely appreciate a no proc cyrodiil environment. Yea we won't be able to use the stat sets we like, but who cares? PvP will be at its best state that it's ever been. And it's not like they're not gonna put in the work to re-enable some sets. They'll have to rework the coding and it takes time. Seriously, I can't stress enough how good this decision is. Finally I and many like-minded others can PvP without seeing a single proc on our death recap. Rejoice
lol at it's best state? good luck riding around for hours to find one fight to just then ride around for a few more hours to find another one. get REAL that is how pvp has been even WITH procs
RealLoveBVB wrote: »i realy dont know why ppls are cryin about Crimson. The Set is totaly terrible! Since everyone know how the Profeffect is looking, everyone walks out of it. so no Heal and no damage for you. There are sets like Alessian MUCH better cuz it gives you a constant heal (HP Rec)
And if you just change a bit your playstile you can laugh about dmg procsets, you can easily outplay them and doin also alot of dmg
I couldn't agree more, a SLIGHT adjustment to your playstyle makes Crimson set almost useless. This applies to a lot of other proc sets as well, if you're able to react to your enemy properly you'll live.
Oh right. So as a ganker you want to kill your enemy as fast as possible. If you do your initial hit, you can't attack anymore (as melee), because you have to dodge the crimson circle, which makes your gank a fail. Your target have time to recover and that's it. Yes, -terrible- set