PvP frequently eats nerfs due to PvE, including in the upcoming patch (ie, the change to 7th Legion happening because of some goofy "score pushing" nonsense in Trials).[snip] I dont PvP at all but I do run a magic theiving heavy armor orc. Yeah its not going to win awards for maxing out stats but I made it work well for pve and it was fun.
Now with these insane nerfs (added detection range??? Extra sprint cost??? Oh yeah I forgot ESO is a realistic sim of a game) im going to just have to abandon heavy completely in favor or medium or light as well the majority of pve players (thanks for nerfing the overall armor bonus as well).
[snip]
Eh stuff gets nerfed for PvP, stuff gets nerfed for PvE got to balance the game on something. As long as we dont balance the game around magic thieving heavy armor orcs its all good
Freakin_Hytte wrote: »When did pvp ever ask for a heavy armour nerf? The last few months people have asked for a nerf to some procc sets. [snip]
CyberOnEso wrote: »How often does increased detection range and extra sprint cost impact your ability in PvE?
I don't understand this complaint.
There is an outfit system, so you can wear medium and look like heavy.
There are sets like brass fortitude to get high armour value in medium armour.
There are items like the ring of the hunt to make up for the speed loss.
This may seem weird, but you can actually have more than 1 set of armour and swap it out to do different content.
I don't understand this complaint.
There is an outfit system, so you can wear medium and look like heavy.
There are sets like brass fortitude to get high armour value in medium armour.
There are items like the ring of the hunt to make up for the speed loss.
This may seem weird, but you can actually have more than 1 set of armour and swap it out to do different content.
I don't want to look like I wear Heavy, I want to actually wear Heavy and not have it feel miserable. I am a tank. I don't want to swap to Medium with high armor values to tank; Medium armor shouldn't even GIVE block cost reduction, that should be on Heavy armor. I don't want to have to make up the speed loss with Mythic items and lose a monster set in the process, and I shouldn't have to. Tanking is a valid playstyle. Stop touting this nonsense that if tanks want to be able to do content, we have to swap to Medium or Light armor because Heavy armor isn't a valid playstyle in your eyes. Too many people with zero experience trying to dictate how other classes and roles should play the game, and then the Devs think that these people speak for those players that actually DO play those roles.
oscarovegren wrote: »You are wearing HEAVY armor. Why would you sprint as fast as medium or light armor builds?
I'm a trials tank and I still don't understand these complaints.
In content where I'm tanking the DD can just wait for me. I assumed these complaints weren't about when actually tanking, because sneak and sprint is something I don't care about when I'm tanking
I'm a trials tank and I still don't understand these complaints.
In content where I'm tanking the DD can just wait for me. I assumed these complaints weren't about when actually tanking, because sneak and sprint is something I don't care about when I'm tanking
Because other people use their characters for more than just tanking in trials. I want to actually be able to play the game on my tank character and not just dust him off anytime I want to skip the line in dungeon queues. I'll say it again; Tanking is a valid playstyle. If you don't want to do anything other than tank trials on your character, that's fine, but don't presume to dictate how others enjoy their characters because you don't feel it's a legitimate style of play.
I'm still confused.
Are you doing solo content in your full tanking setup? Do you swap out any skills or gear at all? I mean, I did vMA on my sorc in knight errant and seventh legion, not ebon and alkosh.
What's the part that you identify most with tanking? To me it's the sword and shield, not heavy armour.
I'm still confused.
Are you doing solo content in your full tanking setup? Do you swap out any skills or gear at all? I mean, I did vMA on my sorc in knight errant and seventh legion, not ebon and alkosh.
What's the part that you identify most with tanking? To me it's the sword and shield, not heavy armour.
I usually vary my setup depending on what I am doing. I have Ebon and Yolnahkriin (working on getting Perfected) for trials, Imperium/Almalexia's for Pug Dungeons where I need to keep the group alive at all costs and they stay closer to me, and then I swap to something like Crimson/Leeching for overland content. Of those, only Almalexia's is non-Heavy, and I put it on jewelry. The rest are still Heavy armor, they still grant the damage reduction associated with the type, and the last two allow me to comfortably solo world bosses and certain content without having to respec entirely. I have talked to several friends who do something similar; not outputting the absolute most damage I possibly can is fine by me, I am here to enjoy the game at my own pace rather than rush from zone to zone without reading the dialogue or experiencing the intended gameplay progression. Saying that all tanks must wear specific sets, color in the lines, and respec their build entirely or swap to a completely different armor weight just so they can do overland content defeats the purpose of the game. There are other games that have gone down that path, by limiting player choice instead of enhancing and broadening it. Guess how they did. Even WOW is experiencing problems with dungeon queues, as popular as it is, and has had to implement incentives for tanks to actually queue up, simply because tanking has become largely difficult and unrewarding due to balance changes made to appease players that inadvertently impacted tanks. I don't want to see this game go down the same sad route others have gone, and I don't want to see tanks OR healers relegated to a slave caste and brought out only for trials and vet content. I am not simply saying the act of tanking damage alone is a legitimate way to play through content, Tanks themselves are a valid playstyle.
You keep putting that last bit in bold as though i'm arguing with that, I'm really not. I'm trying to understand what you MEAN by it.
Do you mean low damage, self healing builds where you wear down world bosses? I don't see how the changes they are making are going to have any impact on the sets you run and how you play.
Can you define what you are losing with these changes and what you can do on live that you won't be able to do after the update?
Taken with the CP changes you've going to have faster out of combat move speed than currently on live, stam or mag or both regen when something dies, doing direct damage heals you, it's entirely up to you how you want to setup your build.
You keep putting that last bit in bold as though i'm arguing with that, I'm really not. I'm trying to understand what you MEAN by it.
Do you mean low damage, self healing builds where you wear down world bosses? I don't see how the changes they are making are going to have any impact on the sets you run and how you play.
Can you define what you are losing with these changes and what you can do on live that you won't be able to do after the update?
Taken with the CP changes you've going to have faster out of combat move speed than currently on live, stam or mag or both regen when something dies, doing direct damage heals you, it's entirely up to you how you want to setup your build.
Heavy armor was penalized specifically in regards to speed with the changes, along with detection radius and roll dodge cost, all of which affect playstyle. 70% increased detection radius renders sneak all but impossible for certain content. The CP changes go a long ways towards fixing it but do not eliminate the issue entirely; Steed's Blessing still needs to be slotted for the speed bonus, taking up potential spots, and they already nerfed it from 50% down to 20% bonus speed. If you are curious as to what other changes I am referring to, feel free to read https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561210/pts-changes-aimed-at-pvp-will-indirectly-hurt-pve-tanking-and-queue-times/p1. I don't know the official ZOS stance on necroing (although they clearly approve of Necromancers themselves given how busted they made the class), so comment at your own risk, but I think the post outlines the issues with tanking next patch in sufficient detail (it better, took me long enough to write it up). Enjoy.
On PTS, Heavy armor reduces movement speed of Sprint by 1% per piece and increases detection radius while sneaking by 10% per piece. Thematic and not a concern, although it really does feel like adding insult to injury at this point.
On PTS, Heavy armor increases the cost of roll dodging by 3% per piece. I actually agree wholeheartedly with this change, as it makes sense from both a mechanical and thematic perspective and serves to balance heavy armor better against the other types both in PvE and PvP, along with making the Well-Fitted trait a more viable choice compared to Sturdy. Still a nerf.
Experimenting on the PTS is all well and good, but unfortunately a lot of issues and bugs tend to slip through, as there's simply far more people playing on live. It's the same in any game with a public test environment and a large, active community; in League of Legends for example, which has fairly regular 2 week PBE cycles, many glaring issues go unnoticed and then hit Live where they immediately blow up and are instantly recognized. It's caused more than one complaint about how the PBE in that game seems to serve no purpose. And RIOT has far more experience balancing games for multiplayer PvP than ZOS; the simple fact of the matter is that the PTS is useful for catching obvious bugs, but pretty terrible at determining shifts in the meta or which items/skills/sets/classes are unbalanced relative to others.
Yeah, I read that when you posted it and jumped into PTS, threw on some CP and went to have a play with Olms and it didn't feel like I was suffering compared to live. I try to do some content on the PTS to get a feel for how things are changed.
Certainly, every change by itself may seem rather minor, but when compounded upon themselves and taken as a whole, they spell disaster. You'll notice that footnote I made regarding sprint/sneak lumped two distinct nerfs into the same bulletpoint as one of SEVEN nerfs to tanks just in the category of Heavy armor passives alone, and there were 2 other entire categories of nerfs, each with 7 bulletpoints! The fact that I was even ABLE to spend 2833 words on just citing the nerfs to tanks alone should tell you there was more going on, and it's a bit deceptive to take that quote out of context and frame it by itself. Regarding your last few sentences; again, you shouldn't be required to wear specific sets for overland content. Practically anything goes in overland, it's intended to be an easier option that allows for roleplayers, lore enthusiasts, and more casual players to enjoy the game at their leisure. Yes, wearing medium sets specifically geared around stealth might be optimal, but Heavy armor should at least be VIABLE in overland content of all places. And it's not. 70% is a massive increase in area, and depending on whether they calculate it as an increase to radius or area, it could actually be much worse than it appears. I agree that, sure, maybe if there were "sneak trials" or "vet stealth missions" or something that absolutely pushed your Assassin's Creed abilities to the limit, then yes, Medium armor would be a necessity, but we're literally talking Story Zones here, Vvardenfell Main Questlines, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, etc. - Overland content. Imagine closing off an entire DLC (let alone several as with Heavy) to Medium armor players by saying that since their armor isn't geared towards the sustain or use of Magicka like Heavy (Constitution and Revitalize passives) or Light, that they cannot participate in Mages Guild or Psijic order quests until they respec their build and change armor. Please, by all means, don't just try out Heavy armor in trials on the PTS, try the 70% increased area out in the multiple Story quests throughout Vvardenfell where you have to infiltrate a house without being seen by the guards. Let me know how it goes.I really don't understand the detection radius issue, and in your write up it's a minor thing, but here you seem to be making a bigger deal out of it. From your earlier post:On PTS, Heavy armor reduces movement speed of Sprint by 1% per piece and increases detection radius while sneaking by 10% per piece. Thematic and not a concern, although it really does feel like adding insult to injury at this point.
I'm still struggling to understand why you wouldn't keep a medium set of night's silence in your pack for stealth content, i know i do for my tank main, as well as 3pc night terror. I guess you could craft a set of heavy night silence, but to what end? Literally the only stealth content I can think of where you wouldn't do this is the indrick boss in vMoS.
This isn't hard to do and i don't see how it's invalidating your play style.
again, to quote you on roll dodging, which here you are calling a big deal:On PTS, Heavy armor increases the cost of roll dodging by 3% per piece. I actually agree wholeheartedly with this change, as it makes sense from both a mechanical and thematic perspective and serves to balance heavy armor better against the other types both in PvE and PvP, along with making the Well-Fitted trait a more viable choice compared to Sturdy. Still a nerf.
Tanking in a group looks to be totally fine next patch, especially if you have a healer, which I prefer over 3dd 1tank groups anyway.
For your solo content I really don't understand the problem is and you don't seem to want to tell me what about your current setup won't work anymore other than you don't want to have a stealth gameplay setup.
Freakin_Hytte wrote: »When did pvp ever ask for a heavy armour nerf? The last few months people have asked for a nerf to some procc sets. [snip]
[snip]
Freakin_Hytte wrote: »When did pvp ever ask for a heavy armour nerf? The last few months people have asked for a nerf to some procc sets. [snip]
Heavy Armor Is Too Strong
Heavy armour buffs taking in from meta to only viable option
Screw this heavy armor tank 5 minute 1v1 PvP meta
Heavy Combined With Malacath Seems Too Strong With The Upcoming Armor Changes
Surely ZOS can’t think people want another heavy armour, Malacath, proc set, health based heal meta?
Heavy Armor, 1H/Shield, High Health meta builds in PvP
[snip]
milllaurie wrote: »And again pvp sets getting nerfs because of pve players. Shall we talk about seventh legion?
[snip] would you check new cp system? Have you noticed everyone gets 5k hp now? Maybe you can turn that into stam? Have you noticed an extra 1k weapon damage incomming? Have you seen the cp that gives you resources back when enemies die?
And, most importantly, have you even logged on to the pts to check how it affects your gameplay at all?
Freakin_Hytte wrote: »When did pvp ever ask for a heavy armour nerf? The last few months people have asked for a nerf to some procc sets. [snip]
Heavy Armor Is Too Strong
Heavy armour buffs taking in from meta to only viable option
Screw this heavy armor tank 5 minute 1v1 PvP meta
Heavy Combined With Malacath Seems Too Strong With The Upcoming Armor Changes
Surely ZOS can’t think people want another heavy armour, Malacath, proc set, health based heal meta?
Heavy Armor, 1H/Shield, High Health meta builds in PvP
[snip]
OlumoGarbag wrote: »
Most of these posts wouldn't exist if they balanced damage/healing sources that don't scale with your max stats.
Heavy Armor is overloaded in PvP BC you can have insane damage and healing without the need to wear light or medium.
If all those sources of damage would be balanced, literally no one would ever complain about a heavy armor player in PvP, since they would deal significantly less damage then a light/medium glass canon build. ATM the damage is almost the same.