Missing Skill Point Investigation & Resolution

driosketch · January 2021

prof_doom wrote: »

Possibly dumb question, but if this full respec sets us all back to zero (which I can't quite tell if that is what's going to happen), what's that going to ongoing research if the various research passives get set back to zero?

Though it's been a while, I've done respects with on going research. The counter counts down, but I believe the system tracks days of research total. So say you have 29 days researching a 9th trait when the update drops. Two days later you reapply the points to cap to 30 days. With 31 days researched, it should complete right then and there.

Starlight_Whisper · January 2021

Aliyavana wrote: »

When you push the patch, can you make it so that Chapter tutorials dont give a skillpoint? It has been since Morrowind (2017) that characters created prior to owning a chapter have reported missing a skillpoint, since chapter tutorials give out a skillpoint, and characters created after owning a chapter can also do the original Soul Shrivren in Coldharbour tutorial for another skillpoint. That option isn't available for pre-chapter characters. Remove the skillpoint from the Chapter tutorials, or give all pre-chapter characters that skillpoint.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374410/skillpoint-from-morrowind-tutorial-unobtainable-for-toons-created-before-morrowind-change-please/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404450/major-oversight-summerset-tutorial-missable-skillpoint-feedback/p1

Like seriously might as well fix this too

Pyr0xyrecuprotite · January 2021

prof_doom wrote: »

Possibly dumb question, but if this full respec sets us all back to zero (which I can't quite tell if that is what's going to happen), what's that going to ongoing research if the various research passives get set back to zero?

@prof_doom We've had full refunds/resets of your skill points in the past. The research progress is friendly, NOT lost - as soon as you put skill points back into the passives, you're at the same point as before the reset. It remembers which items you were researching.

@DewiMorgan research interrupted by the skill point reset is frozen until you put skill points back into the passive, then resumes.

Raegwyr · January 2021

More communication like this message but still, people wait more then a month for this statement. So it is nice their finally get their **** together here but calling it better communication is a little off. They probably can go a little faster next time (and why they couldn't just state "we work on problem but found out bigger issue, we will give you an update when we know more" during this time is beyond me)

Zath · January 2021

Aliyavana wrote: »

When you push the patch, can you make it so that Chapter tutorials dont give a skillpoint? It has been since Morrowind (2017) that characters created prior to owning a chapter have reported missing a skillpoint, since chapter tutorials give out a skillpoint, and characters created after owning a chapter can also do the original Soul Shrivren in Coldharbour tutorial for another skillpoint. That option isn't available for pre-chapter characters. Remove the skillpoint from the Chapter tutorials, or give all pre-chapter characters that skillpoint.

I completely agree on this, although just on the side that older alts should get a later chapter tutorial skill point automatically (removing them for everyone would be counterproductive and impact the new player experience).

At least allow us to run the latest chapter tutorial on existing characters to earn the skill point. This doesn't impact any characters created after Morrowind so it would not need to be an ongoing thing if we were awarded that missing skill point once.

Sarannah · January 2021

Thank you for the info!

Could we please have a CP loadout and skillpoint loadout system, similar to the outfit system. So we can save and swap our points easier, just add the regular respec costs to swapping the different loadouts. This would also allow us to quickly re-do these in the future if there are any other issues.

PS: Damn werewolves don't just bite, they eat our skillpoints now too!

Starlock · January 2021

Fascinating - sometimes one problem can be a lot more complicated than it first appears, yeah?

For clarity's sake, @ZOS_GinaBruno - is this a PC/Mac only issue? We console players are not on something called "Update 28" (our versions are named differently) so I do not want to assume that any of this applies to us. Was this also an issue on Playstation and Xbox? If so, would we be getting the forced respec as well during our next major update?

NoSoup · January 2021

LuxanQualta wrote: »

For months half of my 35 characters on two accounts have been broken because they were WW and lost all their morphs as well as all the skill points. Now the fix is to take away more points, force me to spend the better part of a year earning the skill points back on broken characters, go through an arduous process of documenting and reallocating 200 to 300 skill points per character, and still have to re-earn the morphs on my WW characters. This is simply too much for me.

So far as I know, I never got unearned SP - I tracked my own progress. If I am to lose SP that I am pretty sure I earned, that seems like a penalty to players because the dev team made mistakes along the way. In such a case the right answer would be to start off every when a base of 25 SP to put everyone on the same footing and then adjust the system so that nobody ends up getting seriously hurt by this attempted fix.

If it turns out that I am supposed to spend weeks rebuilding my characters and months earning SP that I thought I had legitimately earned, then how would I have time to enjoy the next year's new content? Or any events? Or even the game itself? Seriously, this is a real game-breaker!!

As to the pet - I don't need another pet and it in no way comes remotely close to being a reward for putting up with this kind of nonsense.

I started playing with the Beta and have been a steadfast and loyal customer for all those years. This is my reward? Having to rebuild every character and re-earn skill points while playing with broken builds and missing the new fun stuff because I am paying for developer mistakes?

Please give this a rethink folks.

It sounds like the amount of players that have illegimate skill points is a small percentage of the player base but large enough to warrent fixing.

Responses like yours make you sound guilty of knownly having skill points you haven't earnt and wanting to hold on to them....

TheImperfect · January 2021

I'm not looking forward to all that skill training again.

tmbrinks · January 2021

DewiMorgan wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

Possibly dumb question, but if this full respec sets us all back to zero (which I can't quite tell if that is what's going to happen), what's that going to ongoing research if the various research passives get set back to zero?

Good question.

I assume the timers will switch to max time until we re-spend the points... but for the extra training slots, do they cancel (so we need to find another training item?), or just freeze until re-unlocked again?

If it's the former, if the training items in those slots are "forgotten", then that could be VERY pricey for people like my wife, who's currently training all her alts on nirnhoned and triune!

Definitely something for us to test on PTS, if there's a way to test it, there.

Research keeps going (you can have 3 things going even though you only have 1 "slot") and as soon as you put the 3 points back in you get full credit for the "time spent". So, you would lose no time in your research if you put the points back in.

I would respec my characters regularly while doing research and this is how it always worked

tmbrinks · January 2021

TheImperfect wrote: »

I'm not looking forward to all that skill training again.

You shouldn't have to do any "skill training"

You just need to re-allocate your skill points

They're basically taking everybody's character, going to the shrine, and doing a full reset of skill points. You then get the correct number that you've earned (they're only removing ones you didn't earn, and got through a glitch). And you can reapply them however you want.

Taleof2Cities · January 2021

TheImperfect wrote: »

I'm not looking forward to all that skill training again.

You don’t lose skill progress that you’ve already done, @TheImperfect.

Skill points will simply be refunded for free when Update 29 drops ... same as if you were at a respec shrine.

When you reallocate the skill points, progress will be re-instated (same as during respec).

TheImperfect · January 2021

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

TheImperfect wrote: »

I'm not looking forward to all that skill training again.

You don’t lose skill progress that you’ve already done, @TheImperfect.

Skill points will simply be refunded for free when Update 29 drops ... same as if you were at a respec shrine.

When you reallocate the skill points, progress will be re-instated (same as during respec).

OK thank you, I'm much relieved, some of them take an incredibly long time.

driosketch · January 2021

TheImperfect wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

TheImperfect wrote: »

I'm not looking forward to all that skill training again.

You don’t lose skill progress that you’ve already done, @TheImperfect.

Skill points will simply be refunded for free when Update 29 drops ... same as if you were at a respec shrine.

When you reallocate the skill points, progress will be re-instated (same as during respec).

OK thank you, I'm much relieved, some of them take an incredibly long time.

You say that, but as you're going through putting points back you decide on the unstable wall morph instead, and now you have to level it...

TheImperfect · January 2021

driosketch wrote: »

TheImperfect wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

TheImperfect wrote: »

I'm not looking forward to all that skill training again.

You don’t lose skill progress that you’ve already done, @TheImperfect.

Skill points will simply be refunded for free when Update 29 drops ... same as if you were at a respec shrine.

When you reallocate the skill points, progress will be re-instated (same as during respec).

OK thank you, I'm much relieved, some of them take an incredibly long time.

You say that, but as you're going through putting points you decide on the unstable wall morph instead, and now you have to level it...

Hehehe

Grega · January 2021

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Is this issue and upcoming solution applicable to console Xbox or just PC?

silvereyes · January 2021

Starlock wrote: »

For clarity's sake, @ZOS_GinaBruno - is this a PC/Mac only issue? We console players are not on something called "Update 28" (our versions are named differently) so I do not want to assume that any of this applies to us.

I can't speak to whether this applies to console, but consoles definitely are on Update 28. Each major patch since launch has been given both a version number and an "Update #" number.

See the titles of console patch notes:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/552187/xbox-one-patch-notes-v1-22-0-0-markarth-update-28/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/552190/playstation-4-patch-notes-v2-10-markarth-update-28/p1

While the version numbers are different for each platforms, the Update numbers are consistent.

kirgeo · January 2021

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It is possible to do your own "audit" of skill points on Live for tracking purposes, @Pyr0xyrecuprotite.

Head to the respec shrine and see how much gold it costs ... then divide the total by 50 (the amount of gold per skill point).

Then compare that total to the Ulrich's skill point add-on (or whatever add-on you use to keep track).

I don't think Ulrich's has been updated for Markarth yet. Just an FYI when doing a comparison.

Is this exact value?
I checked Ulrich's am supposed to have 428 Skill Points. Donation screen shows 21400/50 = 428.
But the skill points I get back on manual clearing or pressing 'X' to clear all is 427. My Soul Trap skill was reset.

azjuwelz · January 2021

So this respec is for all characters, not just werewolves, but the extra points were tied to werewolf so others should come back with same amount as before, right? I only have 1 low level werewolf but it’s my main that is going to be a pain to reallocate. Just got the Tamriel Skyshard achievement.

Sinolai · January 2021

Well.... I am both relieved and terrified

I am cp1600+ and I feel like a likely candidate for having extra skillpoints. I hope after months of fighting to get 4 skill points back I dont end up losing 10

Still, glad you got it figured. Hope the refunding/removal goes well and everyone ends up with what they are supposed yo have.

Taleof2Cities · January 2021

kirgeo wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It is possible to do your own "audit" of skill points on Live for tracking purposes, @Pyr0xyrecuprotite.

Head to the respec shrine and see how much gold it costs ... then divide the total by 50 (the amount of gold per skill point).

Then compare that total to the Ulrich's skill point add-on (or whatever add-on you use to keep track).

I don't think Ulrich's has been updated for Markarth yet. Just an FYI when doing a comparison.

Is this exact value?
I checked Ulrich's am supposed to have 428 Skill Points. Donation screen shows 21400/50 = 428.
But the skill points I get back on manual clearing or pressing 'X' to clear all is 427. My Soul Trap skill was reset.

Excellent, @kirgeo.

My best suggestion is to keep a screenshot of this data handy for late February when the patch drops for Update 29.

If you don’t get back 428 skill points after the patch update, you have the screenshot for an Online Support ticket for ZOS.

kirgeo · January 2021

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

kirgeo wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It is possible to do your own "audit" of skill points on Live for tracking purposes, @Pyr0xyrecuprotite.

Head to the respec shrine and see how much gold it costs ... then divide the total by 50 (the amount of gold per skill point).

Then compare that total to the Ulrich's skill point add-on (or whatever add-on you use to keep track).

I don't think Ulrich's has been updated for Markarth yet. Just an FYI when doing a comparison.

Is this exact value?
I checked Ulrich's am supposed to have 428 Skill Points. Donation screen shows 21400/50 = 428.
But the skill points I get back on manual clearing or pressing 'X' to clear all is 427. My Soul Trap skill was reset.

Excellent, @kirgeo.

My best suggestion is to keep a screenshot of this data handy for late February when the patch drops for Update 29.

If you don’t get back 428 skill points after the patch update, you have the screenshot for an Online Support ticket for ZOS.

Thank you for the advice, I have taken screenshots.
Its only one point and I shouldn't make a big deal. Don't want to loose something I earned.

Ackwalan · January 2021

Sinolai wrote: »

Well.... I am both relieved and terrified I am cp1600+ and I feel like a likely candidate for having extra skillpoints. I hope after months of fighting to get 4 skill points back I dont end up losing 10 Still, glad you got it figured. Hope the refunding/removal goes well and everyone ends up with what they are supposed yo have.

The way it looks to me, if you didn't unlock any of the zone skillpoints from the crown store, you shouldn't have any extra points.

SirBedevere · January 2021

deleted

the1andonlyskwex · January 2021

Ackwalan wrote: »

Sinolai wrote: »

Well.... I am both relieved and terrified I am cp1600+ and I feel like a likely candidate for having extra skillpoints. I hope after months of fighting to get 4 skill points back I dont end up losing 10 Still, glad you got it figured. Hope the refunding/removal goes well and everyone ends up with what they are supposed yo have.

The way it looks to me, if you didn't unlock any of the zone skillpoints from the crown store, you shouldn't have any extra points.

The original post talks about "Champion skills" and "Champion Points", and doesn't say anything about the crown store.

Based on that, it seems like this issue is more likely to affect players who have been high CP for a long time, regardless of any crown store purchases.

SirBedevere · January 2021

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The amount of extraneous skill points we remove will range from 0 all the way up to 25, depending on skill allocation when these refunds were performed.

Hi @ZOS_GinaBruno. Is there any way for us to know ahead of time how many points will be removed? I am seeing a 31 point discrepancy between the skill point total calculated by taking the respec cost divided by 50g (80) vs. the value indicated in the respec screen when doing a full respec (111).

Edit: Never mind about the discrepancy. I'm an idiot. I forgot that I had 31 points unassigned on this character still.

In any case, my original question still stands.

Faiza · January 2021

SirBedevere wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The amount of extraneous skill points we remove will range from 0 all the way up to 25, depending on skill allocation when these refunds were performed.

Hi @ZOS_GinaBruno. Is there any way for us to know ahead of time how many points will be removed? I am seeing a 31 point discrepancy between the skill point total calculated by taking the respec cost divided by 50g (80) vs. the value indicated in the respec screen when doing a full respec (111).

Edit: Never mind about the discrepancy. I'm an idiot. I forgot that I had 31 points unassigned on this character still.

In any case, my original question still stands.

I have almost 100 unassigned skill points so I was doing the same thing, don't worry LOL. I've been standing at the Shrine going ??????????? I know I'm bad at math but this doesn't add up

FrancisCrawford · January 2021

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

LuxanQualta wrote: »

Please give this a rethink folks.

ZOS found the root cause for the skill points issue and has a solution ... which will help every single affected player and put everyone on even ground.

Why on earth would this need a "rethink"?

It sounds like some characters will flat-out LOSE 20+ skillpoints they've long had.

Ackwalan · January 2021

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Sinolai wrote: »

Well.... I am both relieved and terrified I am cp1600+ and I feel like a likely candidate for having extra skillpoints. I hope after months of fighting to get 4 skill points back I dont end up losing 10 Still, glad you got it figured. Hope the refunding/removal goes well and everyone ends up with what they are supposed yo have.

The way it looks to me, if you didn't unlock any of the zone skillpoints from the crown store, you shouldn't have any extra points.

The original post talks about "Champion skills" and "Champion Points", and doesn't say anything about the crown store.

Based on that, it seems like this issue is more likely to affect players who have been high CP for a long time, regardless of any crown store purchases.

What's confusing for me is how she says champion points purchased, which is why I think it's crown store related. Since champion points are earned and not purchased.

Faiza · January 2021

Ackwalan wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Sinolai wrote: »

Well.... I am both relieved and terrified I am cp1600+ and I feel like a likely candidate for having extra skillpoints. I hope after months of fighting to get 4 skill points back I dont end up losing 10 Still, glad you got it figured. Hope the refunding/removal goes well and everyone ends up with what they are supposed yo have.

The way it looks to me, if you didn't unlock any of the zone skillpoints from the crown store, you shouldn't have any extra points.

The original post talks about "Champion skills" and "Champion Points", and doesn't say anything about the crown store.

Based on that, it seems like this issue is more likely to affect players who have been high CP for a long time, regardless of any crown store purchases.

What's confusing for me is how she says champion points purchased, which is why I think it's crown store related. Since champion points are earned and not purchased.

There are no champion points available for purchase in the crown store though. The only place you purchase champion points is in the champion point constellation map.