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Increase PVP group size to 36
madrab73
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Reducing the group size in PVP to 12 hasn't improved performance and encouraged optimal 12v12 team deathmatch which puts even more localised strain on the server and performance dip while stopping new players from joining in. Can we try an increase in group size instead?
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Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No here is the thing, even though you might not have felt it having it reduced to 12, reduces number of calculations when it comes to certain abilities and armor sets. Because its likely not to target as many people. Things would be even worse then before most likely if they jumped the size up to 36. No they need to keep the group limit to twelve for good. If you want a group if there is many people asking for one then form your own. Take charge and help your fellow players get a group. 12 is plenty for group size.
Edited by Thevampirenight on January 4, 2021 12:58PMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.11 -
madrab73✭✭✭✭✭No, performance didn't improve. The lag is due to optimised groups spamming regen and proxy and the game trying to calculate who's VD should proc first. The change has increased lag with more optimised groups running the same way.16
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Mike0987✭✭✭I might return to pvp even with 12 man groups but they 1st have to allow healing from outside the group once again.34 -
DT-ARR✭✭✭✭I don’t mind the change to 12. I mind the healing changes to group only when cyrodiil is faction v faction.25
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Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should just change it back to 24. The change to 12 did nothing to improve performance and it just made it harder to find groups.22 -
magus.septim✭✭✭The worst thing about this is going from 24 to 12 man groups [snip] and the server performance is WORSE THAN EVER. How does this company live with itself? If it didn't have an amazing community, TES would be worthless.
[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 4, 2021 2:49PM9 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, performance didn't improve. The lag is due to optimised groups spamming regen and proxy and the game trying to calculate who's VD should proc first. The change has increased lag with more optimised groups running the same way.
The way any “smart” heal works in the game is like this. I press rapid regen, the game runs an algorithm that checks every player that can possibly receive the HOT, in the current situation a max of twelve players, and decides which members to apply it to. You want to increase that to 36. Which simply means MORE calculating. And there are other spells that are similar. For example, breath of life, cauterise, living vines, etc. In a faction stack this number can be even bigger than 36, meaning tons of processing power is taken up by these skills, these are the main cause of server lag.
So I’m sorry to say, until ZOS changes how all these skills work, neither the group size will be increasing, nor will alliance heals be returning. It would not make any sense.PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.5 -
dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah we need to see changes to heal over time stacking and proc set damage stacking. Ball groups are the biggest offenders when it comes to cross heal spamming and heavy purge spamming.8 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I agree and disagree, i agree the changes have not just turn in to death match, but more like bg's, but increasing to 36 is to much, i think just taking groups bk to old size, as the new size makes no diff, instead of 24 in one group its 24 in 2 groups running side by sideMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike0
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think I'd rather just revert the group size and healing changes.
Though if ZOS does want to keep the healing changes to reduce crossheals, increasing the group size would help in 3 ways: 1) larger groups means its easier for LFG players to get in a group or join a guild, 2) it means PUG raids can better fight the smaller, more coordinated ball groups, and 3) it means that PVP guilds who ran more than 12 players can actually run with their core team without cutting members.5 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm actually a fan of the 12. It makes things a bit easier to manage the group. This of course doesent stop the lag/performance issues plaguing PvP seemingly forever.0 -
Greasytengu✭✭✭✭✭thatESOdude wrote: »
zerging still happens, if anything it happens more than before." I nEeD HeAlInG!!! "10 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe next ZOS should turn 99% of all AOE damage skills into single target damage skills, in PvP?
Edited by Wolfpaw on January 4, 2021 5:31PM2 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No thanks, the change to 12 man is one that should have been made years ago.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, I prefer the no cross healing and smaller group sizes, purely from a playstyle standpoint. Whether they really help performance, I have no idea and I am not sure any of us really do. I did feel like it was a bit better during some parts of the tests they did.
That said, I barely PVP at this point due to performance. I really dont care what they do with either of these topics if the performance would be fixed. Its like arguing over what color to paint your walls when the house is on fire.7 -
CrimsonGTX✭✭✭I play solo so for me it doesn't matter, but I have to agree the group size change did absolutely nothing. Huge zergs are still around(who expected them to not exist?) along with more ball groups and performance is still in W.I.P mode. I don't get what's so hard with just removing the ability to over stack heals, buffs & debuffs.Sorc & Warden Main - PC NA(CP 1k+) & Xbox NA (CP 1k+)2 -
WuChiWuGen✭✭✭Just died at Cam, rezed at Nick and still dead. Two ball groups were online. 1 to 4 sec lag for insta skills.
loged out closed the game and invested 375 $ in a another large scale pvp mmo.
Maby a new large scale pvp map system broken into 4 parts one center one each with 1/4th the ammount of player allowed on a map, or allocating resources or new servers.
Large groups small groups will not make any change when we all go to the same fight.
So why not let guilds group up, we doing it any way with like aa and aa2 and aa3 etc, all the change did was make guild leaders do more work.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »No here is the thing, even though you might not have felt it having it reduced to 12, reduces number of calculations when it comes to certain abilities and armor sets. Because its likely not to target as many people. Things would be even worse then before most likely if they jumped the size up to 36. No they need to keep the group limit to twelve for good. If you want a group if there is many people asking for one then form your own. Take charge and help your fellow players get a group. 12 is plenty for group size.
Not only did Zos specifically state that the changes were because they liked our behavior with smaller groups and such, they clearly distanced the smaller groups from any performance benefits seen in testing.
So while I agree that we will not see 36 man groups in Cyrodiil, it is for very different reasons than what is presented here as it had nothing to do with server calculations.7 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »No here is the thing, even though you might not have felt it having it reduced to 12, reduces number of calculations when it comes to certain abilities and armor sets. Because its likely not to target as many people. Things would be even worse then before most likely if they jumped the size up to 36. No they need to keep the group limit to twelve for good. If you want a group if there is many people asking for one then form your own. Take charge and help your fellow players get a group. 12 is plenty for group size.
Not only did Zos specifically state that the changes were because they liked our behavior with smaller groups and such, they clearly distanced the smaller groups from any performance benefits seen in testing.
So while I agree that we will not see 36 man groups in Cyrodiil, it is for very different reasons than what is presented here as it had nothing to do with server calculations.
Exactly this. They were clear that following the testing, they were permanently reducing group size and removing non-grouped heals because they like the behavioral changes, not for impact on performance.
Apparently zeni likes ball groups, and hates pug groups picking up the new players in zone.Edited by Reverb on January 5, 2021 4:13AMBattle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche16 -
Crash427✭✭✭✭✭Sure why not? If the game's going to lag no matter what why did they go thru with changes that pissed so many people off? Let people run 36 or 48 even.Edited by Crash427 on January 5, 2021 4:04AM1
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JamieAubrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭4,8,12,24,36,200
Doesn't matter the group size, those AOE spamming ball groups will still be the problem13 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JamieAubrey wrote: »4,8,12,24,36,200
Doesn't matter the group size, those AOE spamming ball groups will still be the problem
Yep. People don't realize that every time they push a key, it sends a request to the server. That guy jumping up and down while waiting for the fight to start... he is adding unnecessary requests to the server queue. The people spamming single target buffs every few seconds so that they are at max time if attacked= loading up the server queue. The ones in which it affects others, more requests for the server to process.
They already are spamming the server and taxing the processors before any fighting actually begins. Then they can't figure out why it takes a dump so fast as soon as something happens. And of course we have the biggest zone in the game with multiple objectives that can be taken by any team( most of the time) yet we all dogpile the same keep so we can farm AP and then complain about performance issues.
While player behavior is a huge contributor to their own performance issue, some of this is on ZoS as well. The amount of buffs and the trivial time they are active multiplied by the ability to spam refresh them because of no CD leads to the type of behavior which causes unnecessary server load by people spamming buffs that are powerful but last mere seconds. Not having a CD and making the buffs short term does nothing but unnecessarily increase server load. While the general rule in most games is that short buffs are meant to be powerful but need to be timed( like an ultimate) to get the best effect out of them. So having short buffs AND no CD on them serves no purpose but to make the servers cry.
This of course is most evident in PVP when the amount of animated objects( characters) and effects( everything spam) create an issue that is extremely taxing on the players system as well as the server. This is one of the major underlying performance issue of PVP in general in this game. It could be corrected by redoing these short term buffs to make them longer and to have a CD as the current system does nothing but create a congested mess for every system involved.Edited by Anotherone773 on January 5, 2021 6:28AM1 -
Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭JamieAubrey wrote: »4,8,12,24,36,200
Doesn't matter the group size, those AOE spamming ball groups will still be the problem
Yes but it would make me feel much better as a healer if I could hear all the solo DD's salty tears if their cross-damage and aoe's were nerfed to group only use. Then, all of a sudden, the "just-join-a-group" advice would finally be dead and buried.
I'm more than a little suspicious that whoever pushed this 12 man and cross-heal nerf through has either, never set foot in Cyrodiil or, runs in a ball group themselves.6 -
Knockmaker✭✭✭✭Agreed. If not 36, it must return to 24 at least. Group size reduction did not improve performance, cross healing did (by saying "did" I mean, very very little, don't get me wrong). The argued improvement to performance -again, I think that improvement comes from cross healing change, not group size changes- is too little compared to the damage it caused in terms of countering ball groups, making Cyrodiil less new player friendly etc.
I hope this changes asap.2 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should either add skill cooldown while in group or upgrade servers.
Cyro is a broken mess right now. Whenever there is a ball group around, lag and desyncs skyrocket and abilities stop working.2 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Firstly, they should enable cross healing again. It's completely nonsense, that you can't heal people outside of your group anymore.9
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InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭Firstly, they should enable cross healing again. It's completely nonsense, that you can't heal people outside of your group anymore.
I disagree here. It is so annoying if your "smart heal" heals a random instead of yourself or your group.
Running solo means that my heal will actually heal myself instead of just some random players, which is actually nice.We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR3 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »I disagree here. It is so annoying if your "smart heal" heals a random instead of yourself or your group.
Running solo means that my heal will actually heal myself instead of just some random players, which is actually nice.
Maybe they should introduce a pvp setting, that let's you enable/disable cross healing? I have the feeling, that after the change, we face even more big zergs --> lag, than it was ever before.
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Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »Firstly, they should enable cross healing again. It's completely nonsense, that you can't heal people outside of your group anymore.
I disagree here. It is so annoying if your "smart heal" heals a random instead of yourself or your group.
Running solo means that my heal will actually heal myself instead of just some random players, which is actually nice.
Could just use a self heal. Or aoe heals.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.4
