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Which "fake" role makes your dungeon group fail most?
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Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.
Does that mean that I am a real tank if I queue into a dungeon as a tank and taunt one trash mob in the first trash pack and then proceed to unslot taunt and run ahead on a speed capped stamsorc and obliterate everything before anyone can reach it? Since I taunted something I cant possibly be a fake tank right?
If I do the same thing queued as healer only instead of taunting one mob I give my group one yellow vigor cast for the whole dungeon Im a real healer right? I healed people afterall.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.2 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fake DPSAll this moaning about fake tanks...
All you need is 4 DPS and then for the harder content you start to add a tank/support character.
I am tempted now to take my real tank and queue as a DPS with it, just for fun
1 -
linuxlady✭✭✭✭the fake calls for nerfs for things that are only a problem for a very small number of people who propose their problem as a problem everyone is having, but in reality is just their problem. fake nerf calls are the worst.1
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Daemonai✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Just here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.
Does that mean that I am a real tank if I queue into a dungeon as a tank and taunt one trash mob in the first trash pack and then proceed to unslot taunt and run ahead on a speed capped stamsorc and obliterate everything before anyone can reach it? Since I taunted something I cant possibly be a fake tank right?
If I do the same thing queued as healer only instead of taunting one mob I give my group one yellow vigor cast for the whole dungeon Im a real healer right? I healed people afterall.
You were a tank until you stopped tanking, and you were a healer until you stopped healing. Simple.2 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Fake DPSJust here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.
thats why there is also no thing such like fake tank
"fake" tanks are just not aware how "taunting" in ESO looks in compare to many other games and they want just to generate threat by dealing most damage as they can nd it works or not, to their fault this game have nowhere written they cant hold agro on mobs by generating thread by damaging them
it is time to stop calling people fake tanks!1 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Fake DPSSanguinor2 wrote: »Just here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.
Does that mean that I am a real tank if I queue into a dungeon as a tank and taunt one trash mob in the first trash pack and then proceed to unslot taunt and run ahead on a speed capped stamsorc and obliterate everything before anyone can reach it? Since I taunted something I cant possibly be a fake tank right?
If I do the same thing queued as healer only instead of taunting one mob I give my group one yellow vigor cast for the whole dungeon Im a real healer right? I healed people afterall.
You were a tank until you stopped tanking, and you were a healer until you stopped healing. Simple.
and you are damage till you deal damage higher than tank or healer
if tank or healer are capable of doing more dps than you on dps whiel also doing their roles job then they just out-dps you then sorry but you are not dps if not dps role is doing more damage than you on dps role, simple0 -
EmEm_Oh✭✭✭✭✭Fake Que gets me all the time.
But seriously, I see fake everything, and sometimes...it's not even the player's fault. They think they have their proper role displayed, but it's not or didn't go through when they got into a group. Secondly, healers, dps, tanks, I've seen it all. And depending on the dungeon...it will wreak havoc on particular classes.
My advice. Be more tolerant of others. This event, I think I've learned Fungal Grotto more than ever (lol) and there are still those who don't know about the shock damage of the final Dreugh boos in FG1, and how it pulls you to him...and if you don't get out of it, you'll get at least 20K shock dmg. If you're a tank, this is a perfect way to test your tanking resistances. Same with healers to an extent.
But please people. Be more accepting of the mistakes of others. ESO is growing, we're getting very large, and we need more veteran players to act more mature.1 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Fake DPSBut please people. Be more accepting of the mistakes of others. ESO is growing, we're getting very large, and we need more veteran players to act more mature.
accepting mistakes of others is different story than just going on content without willings to upgrade or adapt yourself, learn game to group content where we need to know basics how what work and be able to beat it
mistakes are acceptable, often it is enough to just point to someone what they did bad and inform them how to do it better but in many scenarios we ahve just ignorant people not wanting to learn anything and they dont care if you tell them how to upgrade themselves or explaing mechanics like they dont care to learn their role they go into content0 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Just here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.
Does that mean that I am a real tank if I queue into a dungeon as a tank and taunt one trash mob in the first trash pack and then proceed to unslot taunt and run ahead on a speed capped stamsorc and obliterate everything before anyone can reach it? Since I taunted something I cant possibly be a fake tank right?
If I do the same thing queued as healer only instead of taunting one mob I give my group one yellow vigor cast for the whole dungeon Im a real healer right? I healed people afterall.
You were a tank until you stopped tanking, and you were a healer until you stopped healing. Simple.
and you are damage till you deal damage higher than tank or healer
if tank or healer are capable of doing more dps than you on dps whiel also doing their roles job then they just out-dps you then sorry but you are not dps if not dps role is doing more damage than you on dps role, simple
No, that is your arbitrary definition of what a DPS is. I do something like 18k DPS on my tank. Is every DPS who does less than 18k DPS a fake DPS? What is the cutoff for a real DPS? 20k? 19k? 18k.1?
Edited by Daemonai on December 14, 2020 2:01PM0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake DPS[Quoted post was removed]
Ooh, ooh! I'm a real healer
Let me find the right spot to heal you and the rest of the group
Then I'll shower you with buffs
Oh yeah, and I gotta keep a close eye on you during the entire dungeon. Have to heal all your booboos
Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on December 14, 2020 2:12PM"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU3 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Fake DPSSanguinor2 wrote: »Just here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.
Does that mean that I am a real tank if I queue into a dungeon as a tank and taunt one trash mob in the first trash pack and then proceed to unslot taunt and run ahead on a speed capped stamsorc and obliterate everything before anyone can reach it? Since I taunted something I cant possibly be a fake tank right?
If I do the same thing queued as healer only instead of taunting one mob I give my group one yellow vigor cast for the whole dungeon Im a real healer right? I healed people afterall.
You were a tank until you stopped tanking, and you were a healer until you stopped healing. Simple.
and you are damage till you deal damage higher than tank or healer
if tank or healer are capable of doing more dps than you on dps whiel also doing their roles job then they just out-dps you then sorry but you are not dps if not dps role is doing more damage than you on dps role, simple
No, that is your arbitrary definition of what a DPS is. I do something like 18k DPS on my tank. Is every DPS who does less than 18k DPS a fake DPS? What is the cutoff for a real DPS? 20k? 19k? 18k.1?
most tanks on hard dung wont be doing over 10k dps if even
but still if dps is doing less dps than even tank, not healer, tank is capable of doing even less dmg than healer...dps role shouldn't do lower dps than tank
why you ask?
for what keep dps which have so low dps if you coudl get in his place another tank or healer doing atlest same dps if not more while at once would be supporting group and be sure he wont die so easily,
at this point dps which is glass cannon in trade of "higher" dps will be most dying player in group doing so low dps sos till..why to keep him when we can get support role in his place doing same dps and at once supporting group and staing alive? such low dps is just slot waste in group if you dont wanna to carry his ignorance, laziness0 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake DPSBut please people. Be more accepting of the mistakes of others. ESO is growing, we're getting very large, and we need more veteran players to act more mature.
accepting mistakes of others is different story than just going on content without willings to upgrade or adapt yourself, learn game to group content where we need to know basics how what work and be able to beat it
mistakes are acceptable, often it is enough to just point to someone what they did bad and inform them how to do it better but in many scenarios we ahve just ignorant people not wanting to learn anything and they dont care if you tell them how to upgrade themselves or explaing mechanics like they dont care to learn their role they go into content
I was playing Vet VoM today...
Group damage was 20-23k single target... 20k mate... Buffed.. With me as Tank and healer pitching in.
On guy was 810cp...
That means by themselves on a target skeleton they're around 11k on a good day. Probably lower. Maybe 9k?
Yesterday I got in spindle 2. Each trash add got well over 100k health
They were around 30k buffed group damage with supports helping do damage.
That means they're around 12-14k each on a target skele.
This is easy dungeon too under ideal conditions, if there was just the lowest bit of pressure their DPS would dip well below 10k each. That's not Vet material at all.
People grossly overestimate their own abilities when they que for vet...
I start to understand why Tanks can't stand this and que up with their DD instead in said role.Edited by Grandchamp1989 on December 14, 2020 2:17PM1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake DPSspartaxoxo wrote: »Yes. It is that broad. Combat pets automatically provide damage. Every tank provides damage. Every healer provides damage. Heck depending on your proc set, you can literally afk and provide damage. When the damage defined is any non-zero number than literally anyone is a dps that's playing thr game.
Everyone technically is a DPS. The role simply says DPS is your focus.
If everyone is a dps, then there is no such thing as a dps. Again, your definition is so broad as to lose all meaning. By your arbitrary standards doctors are anyone who throws a bandaid on someone, heat isn't necessary for baking, etc etc. In the real world, job titles have standards before you can claim them. And your standards would wind up in many real world jobs with someone sued for fraud.
Words do have meanings. And a definition should never be so broad as to encompass literally everyone.9 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My GF PUGs very rarely fail.
That said, I did get pulled into one recently at the last boss, where nobody responded to my query "Why is your previous healer no longer here?"
It was Banished Cells 2. The number of daedroths in the room kept growing, none of them taunted. Rilis' health didn't seem to change very much. Nobody responded to anything I typed. I bailed after a couple of wipes.Edited by FrancisCrawford on December 14, 2020 2:21PM1 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake DPSspartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Yes. It is that broad. Combat pets automatically provide damage. Every tank provides damage. Every healer provides damage. Heck depending on your proc set, you can literally afk and provide damage. When the damage defined is any non-zero number than literally anyone is a dps that's playing thr game.
Everyone technically is a DPS. The role simply says DPS is your focus.
If everyone is a dps, then there is no such thing as a dps. Again, your definition is so broad as to lose all meaning. By your arbitrary standards doctors are anyone who throws a bandaid on someone, heat isn't necessary for baking, etc etc. In the real world, job titles have standards before you can claim them. And your standards would wind up in many real world jobs with someone sued for fraud.
Words do have meanings. And a definition should never be so broad as to encompass literally everyone.
Wow, this guy just put a nail in the coffin on this discussion.
GG6 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Fake DPSGrandchamp1989 wrote: »But please people. Be more accepting of the mistakes of others. ESO is growing, we're getting very large, and we need more veteran players to act more mature.
accepting mistakes of others is different story than just going on content without willings to upgrade or adapt yourself, learn game to group content where we need to know basics how what work and be able to beat it
mistakes are acceptable, often it is enough to just point to someone what they did bad and inform them how to do it better but in many scenarios we ahve just ignorant people not wanting to learn anything and they dont care if you tell them how to upgrade themselves or explaing mechanics like they dont care to learn their role they go into content
I was playing Vet VoM today...
Group damage was 20-23k single target... 20k mate... Buffed.. With me as Tank and healer pitching in.
On guy was 810cp...
That means by themselves on a target skeleton they're around 11k
Yesterday I got in spindle 2. Each trash add got well over 100k health
They were around 30k buffed with supports helping do damage.
That means they're around 12-14k each on a target skele.
This is easy dungeon too under ideal conditions, if there was just the lowest bit of pressure their DPS would dip well below 10k each. That's not Vet material at all.
People grossly overestimate their own abilities when they que for vet...
I start to understand why Tanks can't stand this and que up with their DD instead in said role.
yep, all of this doesnt go under "mistakes"
and I know situations like this to good while I main dps
it is just sad and annyoing now when you go into vet dung, especially dlc and you see you are doing 75% =of group dps on trash mobs and boss
we kick this low dps and what I see? nothig have changed with mine dps on trrash mobs, it is staying at 75% and on boss fight it is 80% showing both uspport roles was doing 20% of group dps while this 1 dps was doing 5%, wow! not even a halp of dps of support!
I also remember how once as how barely I was playing as tank.....I switched from tank to dps in vCoH2 last boss on pledge because in group there was no dps for this :v ....in basic game dung and not enough dps..0 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fake DPSGrandchamp1989 wrote: »But please people. Be more accepting of the mistakes of others. ESO is growing, we're getting very large, and we need more veteran players to act more mature.
accepting mistakes of others is different story than just going on content without willings to upgrade or adapt yourself, learn game to group content where we need to know basics how what work and be able to beat it
mistakes are acceptable, often it is enough to just point to someone what they did bad and inform them how to do it better but in many scenarios we ahve just ignorant people not wanting to learn anything and they dont care if you tell them how to upgrade themselves or explaing mechanics like they dont care to learn their role they go into content
I was playing Vet VoM today...
Group damage was 20-23k single target... 20k mate... Buffed.. With me as Tank and healer pitching in.
On guy was 810cp...
That means by themselves on a target skeleton they're around 11k on a good day. Probably lower. Maybe 9k?
Yesterday I got in spindle 2. Each trash add got well over 100k health
They were around 30k buffed group damage with supports helping do damage.
That means they're around 12-14k each on a target skele.
This is easy dungeon too under ideal conditions, if there was just the lowest bit of pressure their DPS would dip well below 10k each. That's not Vet material at all.
People grossly overestimate their own abilities when they que for vet...
I start to understand why Tanks can't stand this and que up with their DD instead in said role.
Usually I only bring my tank for if we go with a premade 3DD, but after queuing with it a couple of times as well I now have an backup setup:
In dungeons in which I need to chain a lot: Brawler + PA 2h backbar to apply crusher and deal AoE damage, velidreth monster set.
In dungeons in which I need my stamina for survival: spam LA + chains + SPC lightning backbar with blood altar, use zaan as a monster set. For AoE fights do heavy lightning instead.
It aren't the best DPS setups, but at least you will contribute a bit while still being able to do your tanking tasks.0 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Yes. It is that broad. Combat pets automatically provide damage. Every tank provides damage. Every healer provides damage. Heck depending on your proc set, you can literally afk and provide damage. When the damage defined is any non-zero number than literally anyone is a dps that's playing thr game.
Everyone technically is a DPS. The role simply says DPS is your focus.
If everyone is a dps, then there is no such thing as a dps.
If there is no such thing as a DPS, then you also can't have a fake one.
And if everyone can DPS, then you still can't have a fake DPS, just a bad/worse one.
Edited by Daemonai on December 14, 2020 2:38PM2 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Fake DPSspartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Yes. It is that broad. Combat pets automatically provide damage. Every tank provides damage. Every healer provides damage. Heck depending on your proc set, you can literally afk and provide damage. When the damage defined is any non-zero number than literally anyone is a dps that's playing thr game.
Everyone technically is a DPS. The role simply says DPS is your focus.
If everyone is a dps, then there is no such thing as a dps.
If there is no such thing as a DPS, then you also can't have a fake one.
And if everyone can DPS, then you still can't have a fake DPS, just a bad/worse one.
If there is no such thing as a DPS yet we have special split role to choose next to healer and tank in group window called "Damage"
and yet we have so often this called "Damage" role doing less damage tank tank or healer which have nowhere written they are for dealing damage1 -
ErMurazor✭✭✭✭✭Fake TankDps that have no intention to avoid damage and expect me as healer to keep them alive i just let die. And i take pleasure doing it.0
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svendf✭✭✭✭Fake Tankhexentb16_ESO wrote: »Ehhh. Depends on the group. Having a fake tank and healer is not an issue if your group consists of four experienced 810 dps. However if the group has too many noobs it'll be a fake tank that does them in.
Dude! I´m very experienced. I just don´t people to cut que. There is even problems in vet. Just bull nohing else0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake DPSguys i apologies, i was doing the wrong comparison. all fake tanks are real tanks, because inevitably they will generate agro by existing, and something will attack them. /s
i really dont understand how can people demand something from people that queue as tanks, but consider dps a free pass.9 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fake DPSmy usual pug partner is either a full tank or a faketank on a 80k DPS, im a full healer.
we fakepug for dungeons we can 2man on a fake setup and realpug for harder content.
very often we carry the other half of the party, even on the real roles. full tank and full heal doing 1/3 of the DPS, 50% of the DPS, 80% of the DPS, we have seen everything. even 2 DDs doing 3k together!!!!
so guess why i have picked menue #3. 1 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fake TankI know good DPS solves most all issues but I voted TANK because I still cant believe the audacity players have to queue as a FAKE one...this is why I rarely run a PUG. If its a daily random you have no idea what dungeon will pop...Wayrest Sewers or a DLC. Even if our DPS is adequate running for your life gets old fast and will ruin my mojo just off of principle which I would consider a simple fail regardless of a clear or not. This is just my opinion though.0 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Fake DPSI know good DPS solves most all issues but I voted TANK because I still cant believe the audacity players have to queue as a FAKE one...this is why I rarely run a PUG. If its a daily random you have no idea what dungeon will pop...Wayrest Sewers or a DLC. Even if our DPS is adequate running for your life gets old fast and will ruin my mojo just off of principle which I would consider a simple fail regardless of a clear or not. This is just my opinion though.
I would have voted like you for fake tank but atleast from my experience and people I know fake tank on vet dungs isn't that big problm because they are without hesistation to kick if it is dung where tank is very needed or someone who get in here is aware he could land on bad dung from radom dung queue
from start it is obvious if we will have fake tank or not or just bad one and then easy to kick but with bad dps it is wors because as others was mentioning this also...double standards as bad as fake dps have bigger privilage to be carried0 -
Eirikir✭✭✭✭Fake TankI'd say a tie between Tank and DPS, but that's only because I've adapted my playstyle to be without a healer (Heroism WW with 5/2 Med/Hea build) as the fake healers were so numerous. Although that adaptation has cost me some damage, but the problem was so widespread I figured steady life with slightly lower dps that is continuous was better then no dps while I'm dead.
Its harder to evolve against the tanks and dps. I will say I had an excellent tank in a pug last night and it was a joy.Server: PS4-NA
PSN: Eirikir
Name: Eirikir "Erik" Kololf
Alliance: Ebonheart Pact
Race: Nord (Lycanthrope)
Class: Dragonknight (Range DPS)
Playstyle: Crafter, PVE, PVP, Roleplayer0 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fake TankBut please people. Be more accepting of the mistakes of others. ESO is growing, we're getting very large, and we need more veteran players to act more mature.
Mistakes are one thing, but intentionally queuing as a role you're not filling and have no intention of filling just so you can skip the DPS queue times is absolutely not a "mistake".
Jesus, if you fake tank because you think you'll be able to soft taunt just by doing the most damage just slot a damn taunt so then you WILL hold aggro.
If this is truly why a lot of people fake tank as constantly claimed in this thread, then I can't even count the number of times I've been in a dungeon with a fake tank who must think they're god's gift to DPS who thinks they'll hold aggro by soft taunting everything with their god-tier DPS, and I'm the one who's ended up with all the aggro instead even on my average DPS.2 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake Tankif you are so bad on dps then you are fake dps because true dps will have higher group damage than support roles
Ever hear of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy?
"No true Scotsman would ever drink [insert beverage]!" "No true Scotsman would ever be a fan of [insert sports team]!" "No true Scotsman would ever shave his beard!" "No true Scotsman would ever read a book!""He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake TankJust here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.
thats why there is also no thing such like fake tank
"fake" tanks are just not aware how "taunting" in ESO looks in compare to many other games and they want just to generate threat by dealing most damage as they can nd it works or not, to their fault this game have nowhere written they cant hold agro on mobs by generating thread by damaging them
it is time to stop calling people fake tanks!
I know you're trying to be sarcastic here, but really? Fake tanks are quite clearly defined. You join the queue as a tank with absolutely no intention of tanking for the express purpose of skipping the line, potentially screwing over the entire group because of your selfishness.
The same does not apply to DPS. Why? Because nobody in their right mind would ever queue as a DPS with no intention of doing any damage for the express purpose of having a longer wait time. It just doesn't happen."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake DPSJust here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.
thats why there is also no thing such like fake tank
"fake" tanks are just not aware how "taunting" in ESO looks in compare to many other games and they want just to generate threat by dealing most damage as they can nd it works or not, to their fault this game have nowhere written they cant hold agro on mobs by generating thread by damaging them
it is time to stop calling people fake tanks!
I know you're trying to be sarcastic here, but really? Fake tanks are quite clearly defined. You join the queue as a tank with absolutely no intention of tanking for the express purpose of skipping the line, potentially screwing over the entire group because of your selfishness.
The same does not apply to DPS. Why? Because nobody in their right mind would ever queue as a DPS with no intention of doing any damage for the express purpose of having a longer wait time. It just doesn't happen.
Sure the motivations for faking are different.
In a tank/healer slot, it's because they are trying to cut in line.
In a dps slot, it's usually because their own ego makes them blind of their shortcomings or they are actively seeking to be carried. Plenty of other dps won't queue for content they know they don't have the dps to complete because they understand that carrying should be done with the other team members knowledge going in and consent. You'll see them drop out of dlc dungeons, sticking to normal because they are aware they aren't ready for vet, etc.
All three show a disregard for the time of others.Edited by spartaxoxo on December 14, 2020 9:37PM3
This discussion has been closed.