Which "fake" role makes your dungeon group fail most?

Glurin

Fake Tank

Jeirno wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Jeirno wrote: »

I qued as a tank, like I always do for random normals, I slot inner rage and crit surge

[...]

And this is the whole reason why I queue as fake tank for random norms or easy vPledges on my sorc. I can taunt bosses and big mobs if needed

I have news for you about your "being a fake tank" claims and it's all bad.

Well Im not a tank, if I can hold agro so that noobs don't run around in a circle with them I can deal big dps, I'm a dps.

You're a tank. Sorry, but "holding aggro so that noobs don't run around in a circle with them" is tanking. That is in fact it's primary function. You are filling the role of tank. You may not be built for it, but you got the job anyway. Congratulations.

iksde

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

Because, for the 100th time, that's not the tank's job. What kind of *** job has it listed as a requirement getting all your teeth knocked out? What purpose does that serve? How does that benefit the group in any way beyond giving the healer something to do so he doesn't get bored sitting around waiting for someone to get hurt?

erm becaue thats tank job in group? thats why you are building for resists and thats why to block attacks and agro?

to take all this damage instead other roles because for other roles it will bi killing blow on dlc dungs so yes, thats tank job to get punched but much weaker instead DD with hard full power getting killed

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Fake Tank

Never failed a normal dungeon to my knowledge in groupfinder. Any of my DPS can slot a taunt and take care of themselves if it comes to it for any normal content.

On Vet, I have enough DPS to carry any group and I dont join group finder without some sort of way to take care of myself. Healers are nice, but rarely a necessity. I can't do anything about a fake tank in harder content. They are a deal breaker most of the time in a veteran groupfinder.

People are just being cynical by voting for DPS on this. Fake DPS arent a thing. Bad DPS sure are, but that is just a reflection of the fact that the vast majority of DPS in groupfinder have a L2P issue on some level. Fake implies they are intentionally trying to queue for one role and perform another. I have yet to see someone queued as a DPS run around taunting everything or just stand in the corner spamming heals.

Glurin

Fake Tank

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Because, for the 100th time, that's not the tank's job. What kind of *** job has it listed as a requirement getting all your teeth knocked out? What purpose does that serve? How does that benefit the group in any way beyond giving the healer something to do so he doesn't get bored sitting around waiting for someone to get hurt?

erm becaue thats tank job in group? thats why you are building for resists and thats why to block attacks and agro?

to take all this damage instead other roles because for other roles it will bi killing blow on dlc dungs so yes, thats tank job to get punched but much weaker instead DD with hard full power getting killed

Uh huh. So the tank's job is to reduce his health bar as quickly as he can. Yeah, that makes sense. /sarcasm

Taking damage is not the job of a tank. It's merely a consequence of doing the job. You build up resists and block attacks to avoid taking damage.

Again, how does reducing your health bar benefit the group? I don't recall there being any skill or mechanic that says you win if you kill yourself, let alone one that is specific to any role. Even those vampire skills that feed on your own health aren't made for the purpose of reducing your health.

Xzysts

Fake DPS

fake tanks and fake healers are literally carrying the "dps" who cannot even hit5k by themselves. I got attacked by my group the other day for carrying Crypt of Hearts 1 on Norm with my DPS character. The healer could not keep anyone alive, the dps were both awful. I kid you not, my parse was 35k average... the team.... as in all four of us... were on an average of 40k. Meaning the three of them combined were only pulling 5k.. Somehow I am the bad guy for literally carrying a team that would have been in that dungeon for an hour or more. Really? I wont stop doing it. Get over it. You are welcome for the back pack.

iksde

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Because, for the 100th time, that's not the tank's job. What kind of *** job has it listed as a requirement getting all your teeth knocked out? What purpose does that serve? How does that benefit the group in any way beyond giving the healer something to do so he doesn't get bored sitting around waiting for someone to get hurt?

erm becaue thats tank job in group? thats why you are building for resists and thats why to block attacks and agro?

to take all this damage instead other roles because for other roles it will bi killing blow on dlc dungs so yes, thats tank job to get punched but much weaker instead DD with hard full power getting killed

Uh huh. So the tank's job is to reduce his health bar as quickly as he can. Yeah, that makes sense. /sarcasm

Taking damage is not the job of a tank. It's merely a consequence of doing the job. You build up resists and block attacks to avoid taking damage.

Again, how does reducing your health bar benefit the group? I don't recall there being any skill or mechanic that says you win if you kill yourself, let alone one that is specific to any role. Even those vampire skills that feed on your own health aren't made for the purpose of reducing your health.

I will ask you then

who would better to eat 50k hit? tank build up for resists reducing this damage and taking just 20k or dps or healer not build for resists which will take hit for 40k from this?

or chain of lets say 20 hits 3k hit each, who will better survive this? not build for resists dps and healer which can even dont react fast enough to heal from this chaint hits or jsut it would be so fast chain you wont have time to react because it was from many targets or tank which have 2-3x higher health pool than other roles + resists which also have specially sustain to block hits?

this is how tank work, he is taunting enemies to damage to him instead to other group members

if tank wont taunt enemy which will damage to him for 10k per LA this enemy will most probably 1shot with just LA average dps o leave him with maybe 1-2k health which can die by anything after this if not from again LA from this enemy

so yes tank job depends for getting hits from mobs so his team mates wont get these hits and die

Glurin

Fake Tank

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Because, for the 100th time, that's not the tank's job. What kind of *** job has it listed as a requirement getting all your teeth knocked out? What purpose does that serve? How does that benefit the group in any way beyond giving the healer something to do so he doesn't get bored sitting around waiting for someone to get hurt?

erm becaue thats tank job in group? thats why you are building for resists and thats why to block attacks and agro?

to take all this damage instead other roles because for other roles it will bi killing blow on dlc dungs so yes, thats tank job to get punched but much weaker instead DD with hard full power getting killed

Uh huh. So the tank's job is to reduce his health bar as quickly as he can. Yeah, that makes sense. /sarcasm

Taking damage is not the job of a tank. It's merely a consequence of doing the job. You build up resists and block attacks to avoid taking damage.

Again, how does reducing your health bar benefit the group? I don't recall there being any skill or mechanic that says you win if you kill yourself, let alone one that is specific to any role. Even those vampire skills that feed on your own health aren't made for the purpose of reducing your health.

I will ask you then

who would better to eat 50k hit? tank build up for resists reducing this damage and taking just 20k or dps or healer not build for resists which will take hit for 40k from this?

Or you can, you know, not get hit. You can stand there and eat it if that makes it easier to control the boss, but it's not an absolute necessity that somebody reduces their health bar. Don't mistake consequences of doing a job with requirements for doing a job.

renne

Fake Tank

Xzysts wrote: »

fake tanks and fake healers are literally carrying the "dps" who cannot even hit5k by themselves. I got attacked by my group the other day for carrying Crypt of Hearts 1 on Norm with my DPS character. The healer could not keep anyone alive, the dps were both awful. I kid you not, my parse was 35k average... the team.... as in all four of us... were on an average of 40k. Meaning the three of them combined were only pulling 5k.. Somehow I am the bad guy for literally carrying a team that would have been in that dungeon for an hour or more. Really? I wont stop doing it. Get over it. You are welcome for the back pack.

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

Sanguinor2

renne wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

If 2 dds have less than 5k dps combined no tank is gonna save that. They most likely werent even using AoEs out of which the boss could walk, its even questionable if they used any ability at all if they reach around 2k dps each. If they had a full debuff tank maybe they´d do 3k each instead which means that said full debuff tank with alkosh ticks, blockade and light attack weaving will still likely deal more damage than both dps combined but yeah must obviously be the tanks fault that their dps is worse than the dps a 40k+ health tank in only group support sets can achieve...........

AyaDark

The role is: fake human.

To hard to cooperate with some unhumans ... .

Glurin

Fake Tank

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

If 2 dds have less than 5k dps combined no tank is gonna save that. They most likely werent even using AoEs out of which the boss could walk, its even questionable if they used any ability at all if they reach around 2k dps each. If they had a full debuff tank maybe they´d do 3k each instead which means that said full debuff tank with alkosh ticks, blockade and light attack weaving will still likely deal more damage than both dps combined but yeah must obviously be the tanks fault that their dps is worse than the dps a 40k+ health tank in only group support sets can achieve...........

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

Sanguinor2

Glurin wrote: »

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

You know that the 5k dps are both dps (and the healer) combined right? You also know that you can achieve the 2,5k dps that each dps did respectively (being generous and assuming the healer did nothing) by placing a single dot on the boss and then light attacking once every 5 seconds or something right? 5k compined dps of 2 dps players is always unreasonable no matter the circumstance because it likely means that both of them didnt even attack the boss half of the time or died so often that rezzing them will be a dps loss. If you constantly attack the boss there is no way you reach 2.5k dps or lower, a tank with only defensive sets, all blue cp into healing and only a gold weapon will do more damage than that in his sleep. You can probably reach the dps those "dds" achieved as soon as you leave the tutorial with only a weapon, a chest piece, lvl 3, no cps, no passives, no attribute points etc.

iksde

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Because, for the 100th time, that's not the tank's job. What kind of *** job has it listed as a requirement getting all your teeth knocked out? What purpose does that serve? How does that benefit the group in any way beyond giving the healer something to do so he doesn't get bored sitting around waiting for someone to get hurt?

erm becaue thats tank job in group? thats why you are building for resists and thats why to block attacks and agro?

to take all this damage instead other roles because for other roles it will bi killing blow on dlc dungs so yes, thats tank job to get punched but much weaker instead DD with hard full power getting killed

Uh huh. So the tank's job is to reduce his health bar as quickly as he can. Yeah, that makes sense. /sarcasm

Taking damage is not the job of a tank. It's merely a consequence of doing the job. You build up resists and block attacks to avoid taking damage.

Again, how does reducing your health bar benefit the group? I don't recall there being any skill or mechanic that says you win if you kill yourself, let alone one that is specific to any role. Even those vampire skills that feed on your own health aren't made for the purpose of reducing your health.

I will ask you then

who would better to eat 50k hit? tank build up for resists reducing this damage and taking just 20k or dps or healer not build for resists which will take hit for 40k from this?

Or you can, you know, not get hit. You can stand there and eat it if that makes it easier to control the boss, but it's not an absolute necessity that somebody reduces their health bar. Don't mistake consequences of doing a job with requirements for doing a job.

not get hit? got should I get no hit if this enemy is hitting for 15k per LA? dodge every time? run arounr area nonstop till I get burned from all stamina whiel being also exposed to cc's of other enemies and attack of other enemies anyway if tank is not doing his job - taunting enemies to damage to him

if tank is not to not get hit be enemies to get damage then he is not for taunting then he sould be just useless if thats not his job, right, let all mobs damage to everyone randomly

iksde

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

If 2 dds have less than 5k dps combined no tank is gonna save that. They most likely werent even using AoEs out of which the boss could walk, its even questionable if they used any ability at all if they reach around 2k dps each. If they had a full debuff tank maybe they´d do 3k each instead which means that said full debuff tank with alkosh ticks, blockade and light attack weaving will still likely deal more damage than both dps combined but yeah must obviously be the tanks fault that their dps is worse than the dps a 40k+ health tank in only group support sets can achieve...........

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

you know it is not hard to get 10k dps by just LA? for LLA spam it doesnt even amtter if enemy is staing in one place, add to this single spammable skill and easily you should be albe to get up to 20k dps if you as dopps have dps sets as you should instead support or survivability sets because tese are for healer in tank, you dont even need meta dps sets for this

caperb

Fake DPS

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

If 2 dds have less than 5k dps combined no tank is gonna save that. They most likely werent even using AoEs out of which the boss could walk, its even questionable if they used any ability at all if they reach around 2k dps each. If they had a full debuff tank maybe they´d do 3k each instead which means that said full debuff tank with alkosh ticks, blockade and light attack weaving will still likely deal more damage than both dps combined but yeah must obviously be the tanks fault that their dps is worse than the dps a 40k+ health tank in only group support sets can achieve...........

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

you know it is not hard to get 10k dps by just LA? for LLA spam it doesnt even amtter if enemy is staing in one place, add to this single spammable skill and easily you should be albe to get up to 20k dps if you as dopps have dps sets as you should instead support or survivability sets because tese are for healer in tank, you dont even need meta dps sets for this

And this is exactly what you need to know to understand that fake DPS exist.

Some here insist that a DPS is a DPS, no matter how low. But how can someone be a DPS if not even trying? That is just fake DPS, much faker than a DPS queuing as tank role and slotting a taunt...

iksde

Fake DPS

caperb wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

If 2 dds have less than 5k dps combined no tank is gonna save that. They most likely werent even using AoEs out of which the boss could walk, its even questionable if they used any ability at all if they reach around 2k dps each. If they had a full debuff tank maybe they´d do 3k each instead which means that said full debuff tank with alkosh ticks, blockade and light attack weaving will still likely deal more damage than both dps combined but yeah must obviously be the tanks fault that their dps is worse than the dps a 40k+ health tank in only group support sets can achieve...........

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

you know it is not hard to get 10k dps by just LA? for LLA spam it doesnt even amtter if enemy is staing in one place, add to this single spammable skill and easily you should be albe to get up to 20k dps if you as dopps have dps sets as you should instead support or survivability sets because tese are for healer in tank, you dont even need meta dps sets for this

And this is exactly what you need to know to understand that fake DPS exist.

Some here insist that a DPS is a DPS, no matter how low. But how can someone be a DPS if not even trying? That is just fake DPS, much faker than a DPS queuing as tank role and slotting a taunt...

yep, even I will attach now screen from my parse what I got on not full meta(medusa and BSW) with just LA and spammable o this screen


as it is to notice spammable had 3x less casts than LA because of othe skills rotation...so now lets say take away all other skills and make it only spammable from this screen 3x, you get a bit more damage than with just LA

and TBH if we were only LA spam then it woudl be higher dps becaue basic LA have GCD od 0.9 sec whiel skills have atleast 1 sec + some have a bit longer animation which is slowing LA hits on parse
so without bigger problem we should be able to hit this 10k minimum dps by just LA spam on dung especially when we have tank with debuffs

zvavi

Fake DPS

iksde wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

If 2 dds have less than 5k dps combined no tank is gonna save that. They most likely werent even using AoEs out of which the boss could walk, its even questionable if they used any ability at all if they reach around 2k dps each. If they had a full debuff tank maybe they´d do 3k each instead which means that said full debuff tank with alkosh ticks, blockade and light attack weaving will still likely deal more damage than both dps combined but yeah must obviously be the tanks fault that their dps is worse than the dps a 40k+ health tank in only group support sets can achieve...........

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

you know it is not hard to get 10k dps by just LA? for LLA spam it doesnt even amtter if enemy is staing in one place, add to this single spammable skill and easily you should be albe to get up to 20k dps if you as dopps have dps sets as you should instead support or survivability sets because tese are for healer in tank, you dont even need meta dps sets for this

And this is exactly what you need to know to understand that fake DPS exist.

Some here insist that a DPS is a DPS, no matter how low. But how can someone be a DPS if not even trying? That is just fake DPS, much faker than a DPS queuing as tank role and slotting a taunt...

yep, even I will attach now screen from my parse what I got on not full meta(medusa and BSW) with just LA and spammable o this screen


as it is to notice spammable had 3x less casts than LA because of othe skills rotation...so now lets say take away all other skills and make it only spammable from this screen 3x, you get a bit more damage than with just LA

and TBH if we were only LA spam then it woudl be higher dps becaue basic LA have GCD od 0.9 sec whiel skills have atleast 1 sec + some have a bit longer animation which is slowing LA hits on parse
so without bigger problem we should be able to hit this 10k minimum dps by just LA spam on dung especially when we have tank with debuffs

Hmm, it is a bit misleading though because you do have vMA staff buff which is huge boost (not even including berserk enchantment)

iksde

Fake DPS

zvavi wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

If 2 dds have less than 5k dps combined no tank is gonna save that. They most likely werent even using AoEs out of which the boss could walk, its even questionable if they used any ability at all if they reach around 2k dps each. If they had a full debuff tank maybe they´d do 3k each instead which means that said full debuff tank with alkosh ticks, blockade and light attack weaving will still likely deal more damage than both dps combined but yeah must obviously be the tanks fault that their dps is worse than the dps a 40k+ health tank in only group support sets can achieve...........

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

you know it is not hard to get 10k dps by just LA? for LLA spam it doesnt even amtter if enemy is staing in one place, add to this single spammable skill and easily you should be albe to get up to 20k dps if you as dopps have dps sets as you should instead support or survivability sets because tese are for healer in tank, you dont even need meta dps sets for this

And this is exactly what you need to know to understand that fake DPS exist.

Some here insist that a DPS is a DPS, no matter how low. But how can someone be a DPS if not even trying? That is just fake DPS, much faker than a DPS queuing as tank role and slotting a taunt...

yep, even I will attach now screen from my parse what I got on not full meta(medusa and BSW) with just LA and spammable o this screen


as it is to notice spammable had 3x less casts than LA because of othe skills rotation...so now lets say take away all other skills and make it only spammable from this screen 3x, you get a bit more damage than with just LA

and TBH if we were only LA spam then it woudl be higher dps becaue basic LA have GCD od 0.9 sec whiel skills have atleast 1 sec + some have a bit longer animation which is slowing LA hits on parse
so without bigger problem we should be able to hit this 10k minimum dps by just LA spam on dung especially when we have tank with debuffs

Hmm, it is a bit misleading though because you do have vMA staff buff which is huge boost (not even including berserk enchantment)

jsut tested for sure, not a single skill use, not a single buff for dps boost used like just stacks for merciless resolve for passive 10% crit dmg



and here we get this 10k dps minimum by just LA spam without even boost from MSA staff

HertoginJanneke

None of them. In most cases, not understanding mechanics is cause of failure (not that I know all mechanics, but I'm willing to learn). For example, many players do not have the survivor achievement for vVoM, because each run a random person is killed by The Cursed One, the first boss, but they still don't know why that happened and how to prevent it. And even though the Mad Architect, the final boss, is defeated, if you wanted the survivor achievement, it's stil counts as a failure.

Having a fake tank (no taunt, survivability and (de)buffs)), fake healer (no heals and (de)buffs) or low dps (not 'fake' dps, unless they are real tanks queued as dd's) does not help in most cases. That's why I almost never queue veteran dungeons and normal DLC dungeons without at least 1 guildmember or friend. I hate votekicking, but fake tanks and fake healers can get my vote if they don't do what they queued for, just like ranged dd's that refuse to stand in front of me as a healer or dd's that think that they are playing PVP, running everywere, in particular out of reach of the heals and buffs. Stupidity can't be cured, not even with Spell Power Cure. Low dps is something you have to deal with as a group, in most cases it just takes more time to finish, and when we do, I feel satisfied.

Having said all this, I'm guilty of running 3 or 4 dd-runs, but only with guildmembers and friends if we agree to do so, and most times we're also on discord.

AyaDark

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

You know that the 5k dps are both dps (and the healer) combined right? You also know that you can achieve the 2,5k dps that each dps did respectively (being generous and assuming the healer did nothing) by placing a single dot on the boss and then light attacking once every 5 seconds or something right? 5k compined dps of 2 dps players is always unreasonable no matter the circumstance because it likely means that both of them didnt even attack the boss half of the time or died so often that rezzing them will be a dps loss. If you constantly attack the boss there is no way you reach 2.5k dps or lower, a tank with only defensive sets, all blue cp into healing and only a gold weapon will do more damage than that in his sleep. You can probably reach the dps those "dds" achieved as soon as you leave the tutorial with only a weapon, a chest piece, lvl 3, no cps, no passives, no attribute points etc.

20 k dps is minimum for DD in any condition. On normal 600+ CP.

8-10 is dps that tank can passively do.

30k dps even 40k i do only on light attack + snipe when moving.

What must DD do to do only 3k dps ?

It is some magick or nothing.

Sanguinor2

AyaDark wrote: »

20 k dps is minimum for DD in any condition. On normal 600+ CP.

8-10 is dps that tank can passively do.

30k dps even 40k i do only on light attack + snipe when moving.

What must DD do to do only 3k dps ?

It is some magick or nothing.

The only way to reach 3k dps is to not use abilities every gcd.
I got curious and tested the dps of my lvl 10 char without cp and any gear equipped except for a green 2hander from level up rewards. Still got 8k dps with only 1 piece of gear equipped (aka no armor or jewelry worn at all) and no cp spent.

Vaoh

Fake DPS

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

Exactly this lol.

I’ve only seen fake tanks/healers in Normal dungeons or easy Vet Dungeons. Very rarely will the group get a bad player doing this who has to be kicked.

Fake DPS however...... Group finder support roles are hard to find because it’s not fun to do a 4 hour Direfrost Keep.

I blame ZOS for teaching players that a 1K-2K DPS build can defeat Molag Bal and Dragons in overland content. We need an Undaunted tutorial which lets players test fully-geared builds to play (based on Skill Advisor) so they get the feel of each role.

DawnsLight65

Fake Healer

Khajiitihaswares wrote: »

This make an interesting poll... I have tank and healer that come with me whenever I run dungeons so WE get the once in blue

moon fake dps we kick for a real one.

What constitutes a fake DPS? I thought the whole point of a DPS is simply to do maximum skilled damage to whatever is there, but concentrate on bosses first?

DawnsLight65

Fake Healer

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

@Zatox You should check the box that locks you out of using RDF. If someone mentions they have the quest, even the most chatty dungeons don't take that much extra time to allow someone to take in the story. You can move ahead and clear trash, you can vendor, you can shuffle inventory, or you can just not be an ass hat and wait patiently while they hear a few lines of dialogue.

If you're going for a specific outcome, speed run, etc, use a premade. Use a premade until they come up with the selection options that allow one to pick the playstyles they're willing to group with, and then prepare to wait even longer to queue if that style is not checked on someone else's list.

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

@ElCapitanAmericano This is also complete BS.

The real answer to this poll is option 4. Any fake role brings the efficiency of the group down. You might be able to pull it off with a fake role, depending on the player skills and the dungeon in question, but your odds go down dramatically.

In short, do your damn job. I take zero issue with someone learning. I'll wipe 20 times to help someone get better at a fight when they're new to the role or new to the mechanics. Everyone started somewhere.

If you really believed the nonsense above, you'd roll in with 4 DPS every time and have no need for the other roles. I know for a fact some of the content will happily hand you your ass without competent version of all three.

Real penalties for faking it, 4 man premade excluded - gamble as you like, and a training arena Gauntlet for each role allowing one to practice and improve solo, duo, or even 4 man, without dragging others into it if they don't want to be.

The game is 90% at fault. 8% is attitudes like the two above. And maybe, jjust maybe, genuine fake roles fill the last kick-worthy 2%.

Merlin, I think I love you...

Glurin

Fake Tank

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Because, for the 100th time, that's not the tank's job. What kind of *** job has it listed as a requirement getting all your teeth knocked out? What purpose does that serve? How does that benefit the group in any way beyond giving the healer something to do so he doesn't get bored sitting around waiting for someone to get hurt?

erm becaue thats tank job in group? thats why you are building for resists and thats why to block attacks and agro?

to take all this damage instead other roles because for other roles it will bi killing blow on dlc dungs so yes, thats tank job to get punched but much weaker instead DD with hard full power getting killed

Uh huh. So the tank's job is to reduce his health bar as quickly as he can. Yeah, that makes sense. /sarcasm

Taking damage is not the job of a tank. It's merely a consequence of doing the job. You build up resists and block attacks to avoid taking damage.

Again, how does reducing your health bar benefit the group? I don't recall there being any skill or mechanic that says you win if you kill yourself, let alone one that is specific to any role. Even those vampire skills that feed on your own health aren't made for the purpose of reducing your health.

I will ask you then

who would better to eat 50k hit? tank build up for resists reducing this damage and taking just 20k or dps or healer not build for resists which will take hit for 40k from this?

Or you can, you know, not get hit. You can stand there and eat it if that makes it easier to control the boss, but it's not an absolute necessity that somebody reduces their health bar. Don't mistake consequences of doing a job with requirements for doing a job.

not get hit? got should I get no hit if this enemy is hitting for 15k per LA? dodge every time? run arounr area nonstop till I get burned from all stamina whiel being also exposed to cc's of other enemies and attack of other enemies anyway if tank is not doing his job - taunting enemies to damage to him

if tank is not to not get hit be enemies to get damage then he is not for taunting then he sould be just useless if thats not his job, right, let all mobs damage to everyone randomly

Ok then. Go ahead and stand there under the boss's oneshot mechanic. You'll die, but at least you did your job as a tank because you lost health, right?

A tank's job is not to take damage. In fact taking damage is what makes you lose the fight. He is built to absorb hits that naturally come with the job but it is not his job to get hit. How is this so difficult to understand?

Glurin

Fake Tank

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

If 2 dds have less than 5k dps combined no tank is gonna save that. They most likely werent even using AoEs out of which the boss could walk, its even questionable if they used any ability at all if they reach around 2k dps each. If they had a full debuff tank maybe they´d do 3k each instead which means that said full debuff tank with alkosh ticks, blockade and light attack weaving will still likely deal more damage than both dps combined but yeah must obviously be the tanks fault that their dps is worse than the dps a 40k+ health tank in only group support sets can achieve...........

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

you know it is not hard to get 10k dps by just LA?

Not if you're only able to get one LA in every few seconds because nobody is tanking and the battle is total chaos as a result.

mobicera

Fake DPS

I can't believe this is still going on...
Who really cares if the label is fake dps or something so poor its essentially fake as its not really fulfilling the required dps to reasonably clear it even clear.
The reason skilled support don't que and you get these fake tanks is quite literally because the average dps in group finder hits lower than a skilled support.
This is a huge problem.
Personally I will call them fake and consider this semantics argument quite pointless, however when I que again at some point that is what I will get on my tank and you know what?
I wont que again for months...

Grandchamp1989

Fake DPS

I just played with a 19k health DPS player who held aggro'd in Vet Ruin of mazzatun and did a lot of damage.

We cleared just fine.

Can be done, dude was very skilled.

iksde

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Because, for the 100th time, that's not the tank's job. What kind of *** job has it listed as a requirement getting all your teeth knocked out? What purpose does that serve? How does that benefit the group in any way beyond giving the healer something to do so he doesn't get bored sitting around waiting for someone to get hurt?

erm becaue thats tank job in group? thats why you are building for resists and thats why to block attacks and agro?

to take all this damage instead other roles because for other roles it will bi killing blow on dlc dungs so yes, thats tank job to get punched but much weaker instead DD with hard full power getting killed

Uh huh. So the tank's job is to reduce his health bar as quickly as he can. Yeah, that makes sense. /sarcasm

Taking damage is not the job of a tank. It's merely a consequence of doing the job. You build up resists and block attacks to avoid taking damage.

Again, how does reducing your health bar benefit the group? I don't recall there being any skill or mechanic that says you win if you kill yourself, let alone one that is specific to any role. Even those vampire skills that feed on your own health aren't made for the purpose of reducing your health.

I will ask you then

who would better to eat 50k hit? tank build up for resists reducing this damage and taking just 20k or dps or healer not build for resists which will take hit for 40k from this?

Or you can, you know, not get hit. You can stand there and eat it if that makes it easier to control the boss, but it's not an absolute necessity that somebody reduces their health bar. Don't mistake consequences of doing a job with requirements for doing a job.

not get hit? got should I get no hit if this enemy is hitting for 15k per LA? dodge every time? run arounr area nonstop till I get burned from all stamina whiel being also exposed to cc's of other enemies and attack of other enemies anyway if tank is not doing his job - taunting enemies to damage to him

if tank is not to not get hit be enemies to get damage then he is not for taunting then he sould be just useless if thats not his job, right, let all mobs damage to everyone randomly

Ok then. Go ahead and stand there under the boss's oneshot mechanic. You'll die, but at least you did your job as a tank because you lost health, right?

A tank's job is not to take damage. In fact taking damage is what makes you lose the fight. He is built to absorb hits that naturally come with the job but it is not his job to get hit. How is this so difficult to understand?

there is not so many 1shots in all this game for tanks, it is only on trials and some dlc dungs where you as tank need to better dodge these attacks but in most bet content you have enough damage to 1shot non-tanks if they dont block or dodge

so you mean you as tank dodge literally every hit whenever you gonna get hit and you taunt close to nothing to not get damage of this yes? leaving it all o damge other roles in group and letting them die

are going to dodge every LA from ranger boss in vBRP which are not weak and are stacking you insane bleed or you are going to leave him to attack other roles in your group letting them die after 3-4 LA because stacked bleed will just 1shot them without option to outheal


how you then play as tank as your tank job is to get a little as possible damage while keeping other teammates alive?

what are you doing to ot get damage at all on tank or how you support your teammates they can eat on harder content 10k+ hits per any attack from any enemy? or maybe you are just going always sole with dodge as most as possible build with dmg shields or whatever to not get the least damage into health?

iksde

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Perhaps if there was a tank to hold the bosses still the DDs would have had a better chance, instead there's you, on your DPS, pretending you're a tank even though you're not, as you drag the bosses around the room so they have to chase you around to try and do damage, can't drop their AOEs on the bosses to burn them down because you keep pulling them out, meanwhile because the boss is on you, it looks like you're actually "carrying" the group?

If 2 dds have less than 5k dps combined no tank is gonna save that. They most likely werent even using AoEs out of which the boss could walk, its even questionable if they used any ability at all if they reach around 2k dps each. If they had a full debuff tank maybe they´d do 3k each instead which means that said full debuff tank with alkosh ticks, blockade and light attack weaving will still likely deal more damage than both dps combined but yeah must obviously be the tanks fault that their dps is worse than the dps a 40k+ health tank in only group support sets can achieve...........

You know dps drops quite dramatically when you have to chase the boss all over the place, right? 5k or so is not at all unreasonable to see if he's constantly moving out of range or LOS, let alone moving out of any AoEs. (Not to mention all the hostile AoEs and adds you have to navigate around with the boss constantly changing position.) Especially if the player is inexperienced or not geared/leveled up yet, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case given you said this was on normal. You did them no favors here.

you know it is not hard to get 10k dps by just LA?

Not if you're only able to get one LA in every few seconds because nobody is tanking and the battle is total chaos as a result.

then it is problem on your own if you cant even LA to any enemy in this chaos and it is on people who just cant stay in place like in basic content you dont need to run away from bosses...most players dont even notice their running like headless chicken is not helping them any way if they dont sprint, they are still getting hits from melee boss while at once taking boss from aoe and yet they are still alive becaue boss is not hitting that hard so they coudl stay in on place

it is different case if you are on harder content, dlc where actual damage of enemies is much harder than in basics and for this you should be enough aware how is going on here and what to do and so how to play

all chaos is cause only because of not awarness players,, ignorants, not experienced or without knowledge of this game and all those players probably also dont know how to dps anyway or are still learning, tryin if they are not ignorants or it can be also caused just by toxic players in group who most probably arn't good enough to handle chaos they are creating anyway