Which "fake" role makes your dungeon group fail most?

zvavi

Fake DPS

Uryel wrote: »

hexnotic wrote: »

The most interesting thing about fake dps is that they don't even know they are fake dps.

Which means they are not fake damage dealers, just bad at what they do. Like pretty much every manager in every company ever.

Plz, there are no fake tanks because everyone "tank damage" by just existing because mobs will target them. Sounds stupid right? So does saying that dd is dd no matter what damage he deals. Those are group roles. The benefit they are getting by faking dps is getting carried through the dungeon to begin with, and they are fake because they don't pull more damage than a tank in 3 support sets and skill bars full of support skills that is built like that as his group role is to support those that are built for damage. They? Obviously aren't.

Edit: obviously normal not included, because normal is for people that are not veterans yet, and nothing is expected of them, normal is literally where people should learn their roles.

PaddyVu

Fake DPS

I can fake tank vSCP, vFL, vBR, vFH, vCT, vIR and all dungeon that are not DLC !

renne

Fake Tank

Jeirno wrote: »

I qued as a tank, like I always do for random normals, I slot inner rage and crit surge

[...]

And this is the whole reason why I queue as fake tank for random norms or easy vPledges on my sorc. I can taunt bosses and big mobs if needed

I have news for you about your "being a fake tank" claims and it's all bad.

Glurin

Fake Tank

zvavi wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

hexnotic wrote: »

The most interesting thing about fake dps is that they don't even know they are fake dps.

Which means they are not fake damage dealers, just bad at what they do. Like pretty much every manager in every company ever.

Plz, there are no fake tanks because everyone "tank damage" by just existing because mobs will target them. Sounds stupid right? So does saying that dd is dd no matter what damage he deals. Those are group roles. The benefit they are getting by faking dps is getting carried through the dungeon to begin with, and they are fake because they don't pull more damage than a tank in 3 support sets and skill bars full of support skills that is built like that as his group role is to support those that are built for damage. They? Obviously aren't.

You realize that the person alleging that there's no such thing as DPS because everyone does DPS is on your side, right?

"Fake" means you intentionally don't do the job you signed up to do. A fake tank doesn't control the boss. A fake healer doesn't heal. A fake DPS doesn't do damage. Not controlling the boss or healing is easy. You'd have to go significantly out of your way to not do damage. Not to mention you literally get nothing out of it except maybe some troll value.

It doesn't matter one iota how much damage a DPS does as long as that's what he's focused on doing, but lets just for the moment play this out.

Picture a DPS who does on average 20k dps. I'm just pulling numbers out of a hat here for simplicity sake. He joins a dungeon group with a tank and a healer who each do around 5k dps. You would say that's a real DPS, right?

Take that same DPS and put him in a group with a tank and healer who each do 25k dps. According to you, he's now a phony even though he was 100% legitimate in the last group.

Same DPS, but now you put him in a group with a tank and healer who each do 10k dps. He's doing more damage compared to them individually, but the two of them combined are doing an equal amount. So that DPS is now.....what? A real fake DPS?

That's why your arbitrary standard of doing more than the support doesn't work. Sometimes you get someone in the support role who's also really good at putting out a bunch of damage at the same time. Other times you get someone who is either built to specialize in or just concentrates more on the support aspect and thus puts out less damage.

MirandaSharp

Fake DPS

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I had, as a tank, someone in my group with S&B queued as DPS. And they were using Puncture skill line and taunting away the bosses. I asked them if they wanted to take over as tank, and they apologized & said they weren't comfortable with the role yet and that they would stop using the taunt skill.

We get to the final boss, and they're still taunting the boss away. We completed the dungeon, but it took a while lol

Tell him to swap the piercing skill out for something else.. Maybe he didn't know he can swap out skills in between fights? I know if I was on my s&b bar I'd have to swap the skill out, or my fingers will just accidentally hit that pierce skill if it's still on there..

Grandchamp1989

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

hexnotic wrote: »

The most interesting thing about fake dps is that they don't even know they are fake dps.

Which means they are not fake damage dealers, just bad at what they do. Like pretty much every manager in every company ever.

Plz, there are no fake tanks because everyone "tank damage" by just existing because mobs will target them. Sounds stupid right? So does saying that dd is dd no matter what damage he deals. Those are group roles. The benefit they are getting by faking dps is getting carried through the dungeon to begin with, and they are fake because they don't pull more damage than a tank in 3 support sets and skill bars full of support skills that is built like that as his group role is to support those that are built for damage. They? Obviously aren't.

You realize that the person alleging that there's no such thing as DPS because everyone does DPS is on your side, right?

"Fake" means you intentionally don't do the job you signed up to do. A fake tank doesn't control the boss. A fake healer doesn't heal. A fake DPS doesn't do damage. Not controlling the boss or healing is easy. You'd have to go significantly out of your way to not do damage. Not to mention you literally get nothing out of it except maybe some troll value.

It doesn't matter one iota how much damage a DPS does as long as that's what he's focused on doing, but lets just for the moment play this out.

Picture a DPS who does on average 20k dps. I'm just pulling numbers out of a hat here for simplicity sake. He joins a dungeon group with a tank and a healer who each do around 5k dps. You would say that's a real DPS, right?

Take that same DPS and put him in a group with a tank and healer who each do 25k dps. According to you, he's now a phony even though he was 100% legitimate in the last group.

Same DPS, but now you put him in a group with a tank and healer who each do 10k dps. He's doing more damage compared to them individually, but the two of them combined are doing an equal amount. So that DPS is now.....what? A real fake DPS?

That's why your arbitrary standard of doing more than the support doesn't work. Sometimes you get someone in the support role who's also really good at putting out a bunch of damage at the same time. Other times you get someone who is either built to specialize in or just concentrates more on the support aspect and thus puts out less damage.

Damage should be proportional to the content you're trying to clear, not compared to the group.

Dmg is just so abysmal people have a hard time figuring out how their 7k dps tank is competitive with their damage dealers..

If you que for Vet Moongrave and can't break the Dro'Zarkar's shield because low damage so the team wipe (or you rely on the other DD to make up for your slack) for that group you're not a proper damage dealer.

You might be an excellent damage dealer for Fungal Grotto 1 in normal but for Moongrave you're useless to the team - even worse you're a liability. It's all in proportion to the content you're about to clear without expecting the other DD to carry you.

EdmondDontes

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

I don't see people queing up as fake roles in vet dungeons, so the OP must be talking about normal dungeons. Roles shouldn't matter for normal dungeons, just power through them and move to the next thing.

MirandaSharp

Fake DPS

It all really depends on the content. I think for normal non DLC dungeons it's fine with 5K dps DDs. Actually I don't mind 10K-ish dps in normal vet dungeons, it just takes longer... It's only in the DLC dungeons where it sometimes really does matter because the mechanics depend on it. This is where people will get frustrated and start quitting, cause they simply can't manage to get through that dps dependent mechanic where for example wave after wave of adds just keep building up and can't be brought down and just overwhelms the group.

Glurin

Fake Tank

EdmondDontes wrote: »

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

I don't see people queing up as fake roles in vet dungeons, so the OP must be talking about normal dungeons. Roles shouldn't matter for normal dungeons, just power through them and move to the next thing.

Eh, well it's not so much that they shouldn't matter. It's just that the power difference with a high level character makes them kind of a moot point. Go in there with characters that are around the level the dungeons were designed for to begin with and roles gain at least some importance again.

That's how fakes can really screw over PUGs. The group might actually need a tank because they don't have the super high DPS nuke to just bypass everything, and unless the fake brings that to the table all by himself then he's going to cause the group to fail.

Glurin

Fake Tank

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

If you que for Vet Moongrave and can't break the Dro'Zarkar's shield because low damage so the team wipe (or you rely on the other DD to make up for your slack) for that group you're not a proper damage dealer.

Which is not the same as a fake damage dealer. A cook is still a cook even if he's not good enough to work in a five star restaurant.

I get that people get frustrated with failing and believe, rightly or wrongly, that DPS was the reason. But the term "fake" refers to a specific bad behavior that should be shunned by the community. It doesn't apply to everyone who doesn't succeed at their job or doesn't meet some arbitrary threshold that varies wildly with content and group composition.

MirandaSharp

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

I get that people get frustrated with failing and believe, rightly or wrongly, that DPS was the reason. But the term "fake" refers to a specific bad behavior that should be shunned by the community. It doesn't apply to everyone who doesn't succeed at their job or doesn't meet some arbitrary threshold that varies wildly with content and group composition.

I agree, it's mostly a case of people trying to bite off more than they can chew. They may feel powerful in overland questing, even beat a few world bosses etc. So a vet DLC dungeon should be a piece of cake, right?

renne

Fake Tank

EdmondDontes wrote: »

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

I don't see people queing up as fake roles in vet dungeons, so the OP must be talking about normal dungeons. Roles shouldn't matter for normal dungeons, just power through them and move to the next thing.

People absolutely queue as fake roles in vet dungeons. It's not as common as normal ones, but it absolutely happens. One of the worst encounters I had with a fake tank was a DPS skipping the queue as a tank. They kept dying and screaming to be rezzed as they blamed the rest of the group for not being able to kill the boss quick enough, the boss who was running around all over the place because there was no tank to hold it in place to be burned down.

spartaxoxo

Fake DPS

Just a friendly reminder that fake doesn't exclusively mean that you intend to deceive, it can also mean something isn't genuine.

E.G this girl wearing a fake mustache. You're not supposed to think it's a real mustache, it's just a joke. "Fake it til you make it" isn't telling you to commit fraud, etc.



Fraud always means deception. Fake can mean deception, but doesn't have to mean deception. If it's not genuine, it's a fake.

Calm_Fury

Fake Tank

renne wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

I don't see people queing up as fake roles in vet dungeons, so the OP must be talking about normal dungeons. Roles shouldn't matter for normal dungeons, just power through them and move to the next thing.

People absolutely queue as fake roles in vet dungeons. It's not as common as normal ones, but it absolutely happens. One of the worst encounters I had with a fake tank was a DPS skipping the queue as a tank. They kept dying and screaming to be rezzed as they blamed the rest of the group for not being able to kill the boss quick enough, the boss who was running around all over the place because there was no tank to hold it in place to be burned down.

It happens all the time, even vet DLC.

I posted on several fake tanking topics. I used to only queue for vet dungeons as DPS (because it is faster).

Out of 18-21 dungeons per week, at least 5-6 had fake tanks.

On vet DLCs, it is very common to not even be able to kill the first add pull without a proper tank (vIcereach with the Ice Atro light attack one shotting everyone, vMHK with snipes, vFH with Minotaurs).

If you are a good DPS, every single mob will aggro to you. Then you run out stamina, die, and the rest of the group just can't handle. I NEVER had a fake tank on those dungeons that actually had enough DPS to keep all the aggro like some people like to write here.

It is the same old excuse from people that fake tank: "I fake tank because FGI normal is easy solo".

Yet every single day hundreds of players have their times wasted because those self proclamed "awesome fake tanks taht can carry the groups" cause everyone to leave vet dungeon runs when they can barely survive one light attack from a mini-boss mob.

ForzaRammer

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

If a tank is fake because they aren't using tank skills then a dps is fake if they aren't using dps skills.

DPS don't get a free pass for refusing or being unable to do their job. The dps checks in those dungeons are typically minor.

Pulling low numbers does not mean they aren't using DPS skills. On the contrary, you can still pull very low numbers even if you use DPS skills. Even if they fail at it, as long as they try to do the job, they are not fake.

On the other hand, it's pretty damn clear when a tank is not doing his job. No damage mitigation, no taunting, running around like a headless chicken, more worried about DPS than his actual job requirements... That is a fake tank.

I really don't get why this is such a difficult concept. Do your job and you're not a fake, regardless of whether you succeed or fail.

zvavi wrote: »

You are right, bad tanks that try to hold agro by dealing damage are just bad, they are not fake, while fake dds queue without the intention to be the main damage source in group, therefore fake.

/s

Please, it is hypocritical to demand something from tanks (hold agro) while regarding dd's as something that can use 1 light attack in the begining of the dungeon, and already count them as dds because they dealt damage.

Also, he meant skills and gear, it is literally impossible to pull less than 10k if you are using 2 dots and 3 spammables over 10 seconds with 3 dps sets, food buff, and allocated attributes.

That's putting unnecessary requirements on the job. You don't need 3 dps sets, food buffs, "correct" attribute allocation and a complete rotation of 2 dots and 3 spamables activated within 10 seconds in order to qualify as a DPS. Nor do you need a sword/shield with heavy armor, max health, optimized resistances, multiple taunts and a self heal to qualify as a tank.

What is a tank's job? To control the boss. Doesn't matter how he does it as long as he does. What is a DPS's job? To do damage. Doesn't matter how he does it as long as he does. Anything beyond that fundamental principle is what determines the quality of your work. If you can do the job bare ass naked with nothing but a toothpick for a weapon, you're not a fake. But if you roll in there with all the above listed gear and stats and yet still flat refuse to fulfill the basic function of the position, that makes you a fake.

That's just your definition on role and how the task should be split. Not the commonly accepted norm.
As a tank main, this is a horrible distribution of task and putting tanks at a big disadvantage.
'Control boss' is a lot of work compare to 'do any damage', this is not a fair distribution of responsibility.

Glurin

Fake Tank

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

If a tank is fake because they aren't using tank skills then a dps is fake if they aren't using dps skills.

DPS don't get a free pass for refusing or being unable to do their job. The dps checks in those dungeons are typically minor.

Pulling low numbers does not mean they aren't using DPS skills. On the contrary, you can still pull very low numbers even if you use DPS skills. Even if they fail at it, as long as they try to do the job, they are not fake.

On the other hand, it's pretty damn clear when a tank is not doing his job. No damage mitigation, no taunting, running around like a headless chicken, more worried about DPS than his actual job requirements... That is a fake tank.

I really don't get why this is such a difficult concept. Do your job and you're not a fake, regardless of whether you succeed or fail.

zvavi wrote: »

You are right, bad tanks that try to hold agro by dealing damage are just bad, they are not fake, while fake dds queue without the intention to be the main damage source in group, therefore fake.

/s

Please, it is hypocritical to demand something from tanks (hold agro) while regarding dd's as something that can use 1 light attack in the begining of the dungeon, and already count them as dds because they dealt damage.

Also, he meant skills and gear, it is literally impossible to pull less than 10k if you are using 2 dots and 3 spammables over 10 seconds with 3 dps sets, food buff, and allocated attributes.

That's putting unnecessary requirements on the job. You don't need 3 dps sets, food buffs, "correct" attribute allocation and a complete rotation of 2 dots and 3 spamables activated within 10 seconds in order to qualify as a DPS. Nor do you need a sword/shield with heavy armor, max health, optimized resistances, multiple taunts and a self heal to qualify as a tank.

What is a tank's job? To control the boss. Doesn't matter how he does it as long as he does. What is a DPS's job? To do damage. Doesn't matter how he does it as long as he does. Anything beyond that fundamental principle is what determines the quality of your work. If you can do the job bare ass naked with nothing but a toothpick for a weapon, you're not a fake. But if you roll in there with all the above listed gear and stats and yet still flat refuse to fulfill the basic function of the position, that makes you a fake.

That's just your definition on role and how the task should be split. Not the commonly accepted norm.
As a tank main, this is a horrible distribution of task and putting tanks at a big disadvantage.
'Control boss' is a lot of work compare to 'do any damage', this is not a fair distribution of responsibility.

I main tank. Surprise!

Controlling the boss is pretty damn easy, fundamentally speaking. Put your shield up, taunt, hold him still and pointed away from everyone else. Gets a little tricky with the ones that have things like one shot attacks or special mechanics, but they tend to put pressure on everyone else just as much as the tank. So no, I can't agree that this is "not a fair distribution of responsibility". Everyone has their part to play to succeed.

Nordic__Knights

Fake Tank

at the end of the day ZOS team knows what is needed to do things id like to ask @ZOS_Finn what role he'd say is most needed in QUE to be real and what ones can be fake

MirandaSharp

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

I main tank. Surprise!

Controlling the boss is pretty damn easy, fundamentally speaking. Put your shield up, taunt, hold him still and pointed away from everyone else. Gets a little tricky with the ones that have things like one shot attacks or special mechanics, but they tend to put pressure on everyone else just as much as the tank. So no, I can't agree that this is "not a fair distribution of responsibility". Everyone has their part to play to succeed.

-So what do you do with all that free time? Hold block? (I really hope not!)

Glurin

Fake Tank

MirandaSharp wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

I main tank. Surprise!

Controlling the boss is pretty damn easy, fundamentally speaking. Put your shield up, taunt, hold him still and pointed away from everyone else. Gets a little tricky with the ones that have things like one shot attacks or special mechanics, but they tend to put pressure on everyone else just as much as the tank. So no, I can't agree that this is "not a fair distribution of responsibility". Everyone has their part to play to succeed.

-So what do you do with all that free time? Hold block? (I really hope not!)

Hmm? No, I was speaking on a fundamental level. You know, the barest bare bones of the tank role. There's other stuff that make you more effective or supplements other aspects of the group or whatever, but if you're talking absolute minimum then the above is really all there is to it.

MirandaSharp

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

Hmm? No, I was speaking on a fundamental level. You know, the barest bare bones of the tank role. There's other stuff that make you more effective or supplements other aspects of the group or whatever, but if you're talking absolute minimum then the above is really all there is to it.

Yes, I guess after taunting and blocking the git guud part is what follows....

Grandchamp1989

Fake DPS

I swear people who try to clear vet content gets lower and lower.

Had a 121 DPS and a 221 DPS trying to clear Tempest.
Couldn't even clear the trash mobs, I had to try to hold the trashpacks like they were mini bosses for extended periods, people started to die.
It's insane..

I'm sorry but I'm all for starting to put some limits on Vet content..
A regular casual quester or roleplayer are not ready for vet.
Every mob in vet got more HP than quest bosses they're used to clear in overland. They don't realize this.. Or care.

Jeirno

Fake DPS

renne wrote: »

Jeirno wrote: »

I qued as a tank, like I always do for random normals, I slot inner rage and crit surge

[...]

And this is the whole reason why I queue as fake tank for random norms or easy vPledges on my sorc. I can taunt bosses and big mobs if needed

I have news for you about your "being a fake tank" claims and it's all bad.

Well Im not a tank, if I can hold agro so that noobs don't run around in a circle with them I can deal big dps, I'm a dps. Tanks are not just taunting machines, they debuff the enemies, wear support sets and have support skills etc. i just taunt the thing so I can deal dps to a boss that is standing still instead of having dummy running around in a circle while still getting hit by every attack of the boss lol.

Salvas_Aren

Fake DPS

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

Very funny discussion . IMO there is not only black and white to this topic. Thigs often have shades of gray and multiple layers. Sometimes the same thing is wrong on one layer and right on another at the same time. Like in this case. Lets come back to the cooking exemple:

Tecnical Layer: You cook an egg -> you are the cook of the egg -> you are a cook. (only a fool would agrue against it)
Practical Layer: You can only cook eggs? None will recognise/ accept you as a cook because you cant fulfíll whats comonly expected of a cook. You should not go arround and call yourself a cook. (only a fool would agrue against it)

Tecnical Layer: You act in a TikTok video -> you are the actor in the video -> you are an actor.
Practical Layer: If you call yourself an actor for making TikTok videos everyone will laugh about you because you cant fulfíll whats comonly expected of a actor. You should not go arround and call yourself a actor.

Tecnical Layer: You impregnate a woman on a one night stand -> your a father.
Practical Layer: If you FO right after, none will recognise/ accept you as the father because you cant fulfíll whats comonly expected of a father. You should not go arround and call yourself the father.

Also works the other way around:

Tecnical Layer: Man raises a child that is not his -> hes not the father
Practical Layer: Everyone will recognise/ accept him as the father because he does fulfíll whats comonly expected of a father. He has every right to go arround and call himself the father.

Got to your foster perents and tell them theyre not your perents. you are tecnicly right but they will still feel hurt as shiiit.

So 5k DPS are tecnicaly real DPS but practicly they are not.

We can evolve this one step further and conclude that some DDs have negative DPS. That happens when their performance is that abyssmal that the healer loses more DPS by healing them than the group gets from them.

zvavi

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

hexnotic wrote: »

The most interesting thing about fake dps is that they don't even know they are fake dps.

Which means they are not fake damage dealers, just bad at what they do. Like pretty much every manager in every company ever.

Plz, there are no fake tanks because everyone "tank damage" by just existing because mobs will target them. Sounds stupid right? So does saying that dd is dd no matter what damage he deals. Those are group roles. The benefit they are getting by faking dps is getting carried through the dungeon to begin with, and they are fake because they don't pull more damage than a tank in 3 support sets and skill bars full of support skills that is built like that as his group role is to support those that are built for damage. They? Obviously aren't.

You realize that the person alleging that there's no such thing as DPS because everyone does DPS is on your side, right?

"Fake" means you intentionally don't do the job you signed up to do. A fake tank doesn't control the boss. A fake healer doesn't heal. A fake DPS doesn't do damage. Not controlling the boss or healing is easy. You'd have to go significantly out of your way to not do damage. Not to mention you literally get nothing out of it except maybe some troll value.

It doesn't matter one iota how much damage a DPS does as long as that's what he's focused on doing, but lets just for the moment play this out.

Picture a DPS who does on average 20k dps. I'm just pulling numbers out of a hat here for simplicity sake. He joins a dungeon group with a tank and a healer who each do around 5k dps. You would say that's a real DPS, right?

Take that same DPS and put him in a group with a tank and healer who each do 25k dps. According to you, he's now a phony even though he was 100% legitimate in the last group.

Same DPS, but now you put him in a group with a tank and healer who each do 10k dps. He's doing more damage compared to them individually, but the two of them combined are doing an equal amount. So that DPS is now.....what? A real fake DPS?

That's why your arbitrary standard of doing more than the support doesn't work. Sometimes you get someone in the support role who's also really good at putting out a bunch of damage at the same time. Other times you get someone who is either built to specialize in or just concentrates more on the support aspect and thus puts out less damage.

Why is your tank requirement have anything to do with the boss? And dd requirement has nothing to do with it? For the 100th time, your dd requirement is "deal some damage", so why isn't your tank requirement "take some damage"? And I am not saying dds need to deal more damage than the support roles, I say they need to deal more damage than support roles that are 100% support oriented. My gf, with a *** rotation, 300 CP, heavy attack build, mediocre sets (Juli double barred, mechanical acuity, ilambris), deals at least 2.5 times my support oriented tanks (6k+, less intense fights when I can get more light attacks in 8k). Is she a bad dd? Yes. Is she a fake one? No. Can I deal more damage than her on a dd while taunting the boss? Hell ye. Does it make her fake dd? No. Because the tank is not support oriented.
Dd. Is. A. group role. if you queue to vBRF, and as the full support tank(alkosh, yolna, symphony), with 20% of damage(while throwing around heals, chaining and taunting adds), you are the one to focus stranglers down and kill them dds are freaking fake. And I will leave. Especially when they are pulling first so I can't even stack adds so they will die properly in aoe of their abysmal dps instead of running around the 2 idiots that are kiting them away. Because I couldn't properly cc them and I don't have the resources and gcd to chain and taunt 8 adds.

BXR_Lonestar

Fake DPS

My group fake tanks/fake heals all the time and we're still able to complete tons of content. We pick and choose which chars actually play the tank vs. the healer so that they can "sort of" function in those roles. If we know for sure you need a legit tank, then we just take one rather than an extra DPS. It's not a big deal.

But I've been in some dungeons and seen some real winners playing the "DPS" role. Players who just sat back and light/heavy attacked or who basically sat back and did nothing, expecting to be carried. IDK what their DPS is since I'm on console and we don't have access to group/team combat metrix, but you can tell by feel when a player is not carrying their weight.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Fake DPS

Fake DPS is without a doubt the biggest annoyance in dungeons, they slow everyone down, they make some mechanics fail and they complain if you go too fast

Jeremy

Fake Tank

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Daemonai wrote: »

Just here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.

thats why there is also no thing such like fake tank

"fake" tanks are just not aware how "taunting" in ESO looks in compare to many other games and they want just to generate threat by dealing most damage as they can nd it works or not, to their fault this game have nowhere written they cant hold agro on mobs by generating thread by damaging them

it is time to stop calling people fake tanks!

I know you're trying to be sarcastic here, but really? Fake tanks are quite clearly defined. You join the queue as a tank with absolutely no intention of tanking for the express purpose of skipping the line, potentially screwing over the entire group because of your selfishness.

The same does not apply to DPS. Why? Because nobody in their right mind would ever queue as a DPS with no intention of doing any damage for the express purpose of having a longer wait time. It just doesn't happen.

I get what you're saying, though one time I did group up with a healer who was intentionally faking it as a DPS. He even admitted it. Don't ask me why he was doing it.

But your argument is sound: fake tanks are intentional, because they are faking their role to cut in line where as fake DPS aren't intentional, they're just bad at DPSing.

I think maybe this discussion could benefit from seeing a difference in 1: A person who intentionally fakes their role and 2: a person who doesn't reach an acceptable standard so as to be considered functional at their role. Both are fake in the sense neither of them focus their character to achieve the role they signed on as, but only the former actually intends for that to be the case.

LashanW

Fake DPS

My vote is considering veteran dungeons.

Jeirno wrote: »

Well Im not a tank, if I can hold agro so that noobs don't run around in a circle with them I can deal big dps, I'm a dps. Tanks are not just taunting machines, they debuff the enemies, wear support sets and have support skills etc. i just taunt the thing so I can deal dps to a boss that is standing still instead of having dummy running around in a circle while still getting hit by every attack of the boss lol.

Taunt skills are literally the only skills in the game that shows tank role icon in the tooltips. So if you use taunt skills, you are a tank. If you don't use taunt skills, you are not a tank.


Debuffing, stacking enemies and using support sets/skills are all luxuries. They are what separates a basic tank from a great tank.

renne

Fake Tank

Jeirno wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Jeirno wrote: »

I qued as a tank, like I always do for random normals, I slot inner rage and crit surge

[...]

And this is the whole reason why I queue as fake tank for random norms or easy vPledges on my sorc. I can taunt bosses and big mobs if needed

I have news for you about your "being a fake tank" claims and it's all bad.

Well Im not a tank, if I can hold agro so that noobs don't run around in a circle with them I can deal big dps, I'm a dps. Tanks are not just taunting machines, they debuff the enemies, wear support sets and have support skills etc. i just taunt the thing so I can deal dps to a boss that is standing still instead of having dummy running around in a circle while still getting hit by every attack of the boss lol.

Gosh, you reeeeeeally want to be able to say you're a fake tank don't you?

But what @LashanW said is the case. The literal basic requirement for a tank is taunting and holding aggro. Good tanks, great tanks? No, they're not just taunting machines. But other tanks? Yep. That's what they do.

If anything, you might be a hybrid dps/tank.

But you're not a fake tank.

Glurin

Fake Tank

zvavi wrote: »

Why is your tank requirement have anything to do with the boss?

Doesn't really. That's just where tanks are generally needed.

And dd requirement has nothing to do with it?

Because, again, bosses are generally where group roles and coordination are really needed, so that's the example most commonly used by everyone.

Is this really where you want to go? Hanging your entire argument on whether the example is a boss fight or not?

For the 100th time, your dd requirement is "deal some damage", so why isn't your tank requirement "take some damage"?

Because, for the 100th time, that's not the tank's job. What kind of *** job has it listed as a requirement getting all your teeth knocked out? What purpose does that serve? How does that benefit the group in any way beyond giving the healer something to do so he doesn't get bored sitting around waiting for someone to get hurt?

And I am not saying dds need to deal more damage than the support roles,

Uh, yeah, you quite literally did. That's been your case this entire time. Your entire argument is built on how much damage a support character does.