Which "fake" role makes your dungeon group fail most?

Adernath

Fake DPS

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

This 100000x times!

RageKing

Fake DPS

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

What if a solo Player does not have the Intention of doing damage because he has no intention of doing anything at all and just wants to complete the Dungeon for the reward but not play it, and he knows if he queues as Tank or Heal he will be kicked for sure. Is he a fake dps ?

exactly. most of these fake dps are casual solo players that know they cant que as a tank or healer because they will get kicked fast. They want to complete the group content but dont want to put forth the effort to actually perform their role reasonably, so they que as a dps with the hope the other dps in group carries them. therefore no intention and a fake dps.

Glurin

Fake Tank

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

The other day i did vFG1 and got a 230cp Tank with Heavy Armor and S&B but no Taunt and no Skillpoints for Taunt.
Fake Tank or real Tank? He had the Intention of being a Tank but if he did not even inform him about most basic Tank Tasks can you say he realy was "trying to do the job of a tank" when he did not even know what the job of a Tank is? When he did near zero preparation? Yes he had Heavy Aromor and S&B but what is it worth if he does not have the agro?

Yeah, that's still a tank. A bad one, but still a tank.

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

If you have solo players with Plague Doctor and Winters Respite DW & Destro are they realy "trying to do the job" ? Do they realy have the "intention of doing anything that "a DPS" is supposed to do." ?

Yup.

Is a DPS suposed to spam Bow LA ?

If they want to, yeah.

Is it a DPS Job to spam Singel Target Execute on one (1) full Health Trashmob? If yes then i guess i leard the game wrong.

Yeah, I guess you did then.

What if a solo Player does not have the Intention of doing damage because he has no intention of doing anything at all and just wants to complete the Dungeon for the reward but not play it, and he knows if he queues as Tank or Heal he will be kicked for sure. Is he a fake dps ?

That's what's referred to as a carry. Or at least it was until the DPS meter addicts decided a carry was anyone not in the number one slot on the chart. Role doesn't really play a part in it, though I suppose that specific scenario might qualify as fake dps simply because that's what he queued as.

Firstmep

Cant remember the last time any fake role caused any issues in a dungeon i ran.

As a general rule i dont use the group finder for dungeons i couldnt carry solo or outright solo myself.

I dont know why its so hard to for people to realise that they should make their own group for content thats "difficult" for them.

Drdeath20

Fake DPS

I dont believe there is such a thing as a fake dps. Just weak dps or players that dont have enough knowledge or experience to be a viable dps.

Tanks are hands down the most important and hardest to get. Getting a tank that doesnt taunt will kill a group very quickly but its not as common as getting fake dps.

LalMirchi

What do you say to someone without fingers?

Thumbs up

zvavi

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

You're still not getting it. What matters is intent. If I queue for a dungeon as a tank with absolutely no intention of doing anything that a tank is supposed to do, that makes me a fake tank. My stats, gear, skill bar, attributes, all of that is irrelevant for the most part. Even a tank who absolutely sucks at tanking is still a tank if he's trying to do the job of a tank.

The same principle applies to DPS.

Lol. 100% correct. What matters is intent. If I go in a dungeon intending to hold agro by generating damage, I am still a fake tank.

No, actually that makes you a real tank. You signed on as a tank and you generated aggro to control the boss. That's a tank. Hell, even if you signed on as a DPS and just happened to pull aggro all the time so you changed your behavior to fill the tank role, that still makes you a tank.

Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter how you do it as long as you do it. You don't actually need a taunt to be a tank. The defining characteristic of that job is controlling the boss. No more and no less.

zvavi wrote: »

If a damage dealer, whose job is to deal damage

That's his job. He deals damage. Full stop. How much damage anyone else is doing in comparison is 100% irrelevant to the job description. It doesn't matter one bit if the tank is doing more damage or the healer or Bob the purple unicorn. At least as far as qualifying as a DPS is concerned.

No. He is not a real tank. Because the boss does not generate agro like that. The boss will harm your allies.

I will say what I already said many times, expecting something out of tanks and healers, while expecting nothing from dds, is hypocritical. if a healer throws one heal the entire dungeon, it doesn't make him a real healer, because he healed once. If a tank agros only the first boss, it doesn't make him any less fake tank for the rest of the run. If dd deals less damage than a fully support oriented tank that just refreshes his debuffs, he ain't a real dd. It is group content done in a group with each person having a role in that group. When a person does not intent to do that group role aka not taunting priority adds, not keeping heals up, not dealing most of dmg in group, he is not intending on completing his group role. going into a dungeon is not 4 solo players, it is 1 tank, 1 heal, 2 dds. Each has a group role. It is not solo.

mobicera

Fake DPS

So those arguing that a dps who essentially does less than a buff bot pve tank isn't really a fake dps, can you explain why you feel dps should get a free pass for a carry if they don't fulfill their role?
This is like a double standard, you can't hold support at a higher standard than dps.
You most definitely can't insult your support or question their skill if all you can do is 10k, 10k is just a detriment to group content and flat out disrespectful in vet content, it isn't really even trying.
Dps do not get a free pass.

caperb

Fake DPS

This poll is good! It finally clears up the debate about the fake roles that was going on. A lot of fake dps were asking for real tanks and healers.

It looks like these ´fake dps´ who are in need of a real healer or tank on easy runs are the least wanted.

ErMurazor

Fake Tank

Real healer and fake dps are the worst. As a healer slot spc and master Architect and destro ult. Rapid Regen and Combat prayer are enough.

Jayroo

Fake Healer

This thread confirms my reasoning for maining tank.

"have bad dps?

YOURE FAKE

I'm entitled to REAL dps"

highkingnm

Fake Tank

Given I only really fail vet DLC stuff depending on who is in group now, fake tank because it's the only content which still needs a tank for most groups (yes, some can 4 DPS it, some can solo some even, I'm not one of them). If I didn't have as much DPS or regularly brought out my tanks or healer (which I don't because of the risk), I'd probably be mad at bad DPS a lot more, but I can carry on the DPS side in pretty much all 4-man content now, so it really doesn't both me.

The most common cause of failure isn't fake role, it's inability for people to play mechs. After that I find it to be fake tank then low DPS.

For newer players I can see any of the three roles being faked causing issues though.

iksde

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

The other day i did vFG1 and got a 230cp Tank with Heavy Armor and S&B but no Taunt and no Skillpoints for Taunt.
Fake Tank or real Tank? He had the Intention of being a Tank but if he did not even inform him about most basic Tank Tasks can you say he realy was "trying to do the job of a tank" when he did not even know what the job of a Tank is? When he did near zero preparation? Yes he had Heavy Aromor and S&B but what is it worth if he does not have the agro?

Yeah, that's still a tank. A bad one, but still a tank.

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

If you have solo players with Plague Doctor and Winters Respite DW & Destro are they realy "trying to do the job" ? Do they realy have the "intention of doing anything that "a DPS" is supposed to do." ?

Yup.

Is a DPS suposed to spam Bow LA ?

If they want to, yeah.

Is it a DPS Job to spam Singel Target Execute on one (1) full Health Trashmob? If yes then i guess i leard the game wrong.

Yeah, I guess you did then.

What if a solo Player does not have the Intention of doing damage because he has no intention of doing anything at all and just wants to complete the Dungeon for the reward but not play it, and he knows if he queues as Tank or Heal he will be kicked for sure. Is he a fake dps ?

That's what's referred to as a carry. Or at least it was until the DPS meter addicts decided a carry was anyone not in the number one slot on the chart. Role doesn't really play a part in it, though I suppose that specific scenario might qualify as fake dps simply because that's what he queued as.

wow so ty for confirmation there is no thing like a fake role!

Im gonna queue with randoms as tank or healer, as tank I will be wanting to hold agro by generatin threat by doing most dps in group! wish me luck bosses wont be de-aggroing from me!

yay for faster queues for dungs!!

iksde

Fake DPS

mobicera wrote: »

So those arguing that a dps who essentially does less than a buff bot pve tank isn't really a fake dps, can you explain why you feel dps should get a free pass for a carry if they don't fulfill their role?
This is like a double standard, you can't hold support at a higher standard than dps.
You most definitely can't insult your support or question their skill if all you can do is 10k, 10k is just a detriment to group content and flat out disrespectful in vet content, it isn't really even trying.
Dps do not get a free pass.

yeah, the best thing is I with cap cp and basic gear for dps will be albe to do 10k-15k dps with only LA spam....add to this a single spammable skill and we will go to 20k-25k without even trying but by having a dps gear and spamming LA with single skill

it very surpises me how people anywah are able to pull so low dps especially when they are not low cp

WySoSirius

After tonight with another fake tank in pug. I will just resort to requesting random runs in guilds and friend list only. Really this is the only option we can all rely on

Xebov

Fake DPS

Fake DDs plain and simple.

Im a Tank player, i need at least one somewhat competent DD to get stuff done in time. Especially for harder dungeons or harder modes i regularly end up with DDs that dont have the minimum gear/skill/experience and most of them regularly ignore advice or explanations for mechs. They are a real pain and regularly lead me to simply leave the group after the first trash groups.

Klad

My fake StamBlade tank that just wears a costume and a crafted level 1 Broadsword.


....What?

Jaimeh

Fake DPS

It depends on the mode and the dungeons, but typically bad supports are less obvious than bad DDs. However, for DLC dungeons, you can pull through with mediocre DDs, but if you have a fake tank, it will be game over pretty fast.

CleymenZero

Fake DPS

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

That is exactly we what I think. Been using the term fake DPS for a while and it's worse than the other 2 cause the other 2 know they're fake.

Glurin

Fake Tank

mobicera wrote: »

So those arguing that a dps who essentially does less than a buff bot pve tank isn't really a fake dps, can you explain why you feel dps should get a free pass for a carry if they don't fulfill their role?

Sure I can. They don't get a free pass.

If their DPS is subpar and you believe the only solution is to kick them from the group, then you kick them from the group. That doesn't make them "fake dps".

DPS have a job. Do damage. Period. End of discussion. Doesn't matter how much damage they do or what they use to do it, as long as they signed up to do damage and they do damage, they are DPS. Same thing with every role. You can fail miserably at your job, but as long as you are doing the job you signed up to do, you are not a fake.

You can't just label everyone not up to your arbitrary standards as fake. All you people have done with this "fake dps" nonsense is cover for the fake tanks and healers. People that deliberately sabotage the group dynamic to satisfy their own selfishness. I strongly suspect that for some of you that was your goal all along so you can justify your own bad behavior.

Tornaad

Why would anyone spend 30 minutes in queue to "fake DPS" when you can generally get in much faster as a tank or healer?

svendf

Fake Tank

Zuboko wrote: »

Why would anyone spend 30 minutes in queue to "fake DPS" when you can generally get in much faster as a tank or healer?

If your dps isn´t up to par with the content you would like to run. You can at anythime role out a tank or healer. I mean not eveybody is cut out to be a dd from the get go (as a new player). Maybe your gameplay have to mature a bit - I know a few, who have been through that. That´s a good way to stop and que as a fake role.

Just a little warning, though. Don´t believe the gras is more green on the other side, because it isn´t.

MorganaLaVey

Glurin wrote: »

You can't just label everyone not up to your arbitrary standards as fake. All you people have done with this "fake dps" nonsense is cover for the fake tanks and healers. People that deliberately sabotage the group dynamic to satisfy their own selfishness. I strongly suspect that for some of you that was your goal all along so you can justify your own bad behavior.

No its not about being fake or not its about as you said "People that deliberately (or because of stupidity/ unwillingnes to learn the game) sabotage the group dynamic to satisfy their own selfishness." None cares about fake or not, people only go around talking about fake DPS because many players where crying about fake Tank & fake Heal sabotage the group, all the day long. But none talk abou the many more DPS who do the same. None cares about the Terminology or Etyminology of fake or not fake, its about the mentality behind it.

Zuboko wrote: »

Why would anyone spend 30 minutes in queue to "fake DPS" when you can generally get in much faster as a tank or healer?

If you spam LA's as Tank or heal you get kicked.

MorganaLaVey

Tank tanking as much as Heal & DPS do = Fake Tank
Heal healing as much as Tank & DPS do = Fake Heal
DPS DPSing as much as Tank & Heal do = Fake DPS

zvavi

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

All you people have done with this "fake dps" nonsense is cover for the fake tanks and healers. People that deliberately sabotage the group dynamic to satisfy their own selfishness. I strongly suspect that for some of you that was your goal all along so you can justify your own bad behavior.

"Cover up". Lol. Half those fake tanks and healers are fake dds too. LAST 2 TIMES I DID RANDOM VET, ON MY FULLY SUPPORT ORIENTED TANKS, I HAD 30%+ OF THE DAMAGE. WITH BARS THAT HAVE 9+ SUPPORT SKILLS, 3 SUPPORT SETS AND SUPPORT CP.

When I tank on my dds, I make sure I have
1. Taunt.
2. Chains.
3. Major breach.

When I heal on my dds, I make sure I have:
1. burst heal.
2. Heal over time.
3. Elemental drain.
4. Orbs

So ye, I am trying to "cover it up". /s

People that queue as dds in dungeons they can't be the main damage dealers in, trying to deliberately to sabotage the group dynamic to satisfy their own selfishness. i am buffing them cause i am not built to deal damage, if they are not built to deal damage either, who is? why am i buffing them?

Glurin

Fake Tank

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

None cares about fake or not, people only go around talking about fake DPS because many players where crying about fake Tank & fake Heal sabotage the group, all the day long. But none talk abou the many more DPS who do the same.

Reason being the number of DPS who do the same is zero. Nobody queues as dps to skip the line. Nobody joins a group as dps with no intention at all of doing any damage. There is no benefit to it. None.

"Yeah, I don't want to dps, I just wanna heal. But I don't want to put up with that annoying five minute wait in the queue so I'm gonna sign up as dps to get that nice long 45 minute downtime."

I don't see that happening. Ever.

spartaxoxo

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

DPS have a job. Do damage. Period. End of discussion.

@Glurin

That's false. A dps's job is to do enough damage to clear a dungeon. And 10k is not enough to clear many dungeons. If someone wants a fast run or a score run, and that dps cannot do that, then they are bad. If they queue up knowing they don’t have the dps to clear any dungeon that pops in their feed, they are a fake. If their damage is not distinguishable from any other role, they are a fake.

A dps's job is not to exist without literally being inactive, it's to bring enough damage that the group can succeed.

You cannot hit less than 10k if you are using damage skills regularly. It's not different than refusing to assign tank skills to your bar and using them.

A bad dps will do so little damage that the dungeon becomes a slog. A fake dps has to be carried. There are fake dps.

Glurin

Fake Tank

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

DPS have a job. Do damage. Period. End of discussion.

@Glurin

That's false. A dps's job is to due enough damage to clear a dungeon. And 10k is not enough to clear many dungeons. If someone wants a fast run or a score run, and that dps cannot do that, then they are bad. If they queue up knowing they don’t have the dps to clear any dungeon that pops in their feed, they are a fake. If their damage is not distinguishable from any other role, they are a fake.

A dps's job is not to exist without literally being inactive, it's to bring enough damage that the group can succeed.

Success or failure has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the definition of a person's role in a group. "Your job is to win." That's not a job. That's a goal. Your job is to perform whatever duties are inherent in the task you are assigned.

Starlight_Whisper

Fake DPS

Everyone knows healers are useless with all strong self in the game.

spartaxoxo

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

DPS have a job. Do damage. Period. End of discussion.

@Glurin

That's false. A dps's job is to due enough damage to clear a dungeon. And 10k is not enough to clear many dungeons. If someone wants a fast run or a score run, and that dps cannot do that, then they are bad. If they queue up knowing they don’t have the dps to clear any dungeon that pops in their feed, they are a fake. If their damage is not distinguishable from any other role, they are a fake.

A dps's job is not to exist without literally being inactive, it's to bring enough damage that the group can succeed.

Success or failure has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the definition of a person's role in a group. "Your job is to win." That's not a job. That's a goal. Your job is to perform whatever duties are inherent in the task you are assigned.

That's not just a goal. It is your entire reason for being there. Your job is your primary objective.

Whether or not you're successful is a dps having the dps to do the job, but not the skill because they don't understand the mechanics. Lile a dps I had in my group the other night that kept healing the boss up in vet direfrost keep because they couldn't break free and couldn't communicate. That person had the minimum dps to succeed but NOT the skill. That's a bad dps.

A fake dps doesn't even have that. They cannot perform their purpose and have no intention of doing so. They are fake.

By your defintion, anyone who is not afk is a dps. And a definition so broad that includes other roles, is a useless definition for defining a role.

It's a dps job to bring the minimum dps required to complete their task. That's what differiantes them from people being afk, or the damage that tanks and healers bring.