SilverBride wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

if you can pick up a video game, and beat the entirety of its story without putting any effort into making yourself stronger and leveling, then that game's story is a failure in my eyes.

In your eyes. Those are the key words. But not everyone feels that way, especially in a game that offers so many different activities and playstyles.

I don't do vet content for a variety of reasons, but I do put effort into making myself stronger for how I play and the things I choose to do. I find satisfaction in completing every zone, every quest, and fully completing the maps. I also love harrowstorms and world boss fights. And I gear up so I can do these without being carried by the group I am engaging these with.

But I still think this is more about wanting upgraded drops than the difficulty of the boss. And that would not be fair to the rest of the playerbase.

op·tion·al
/ˈäpSH(ə)n(ə)l/

adjective
available to be chosen but not obligatory.

MirandaSharp wrote: »

I'd like to have a difficulty slider in the settings for overland questing that simply changes the level scaling ratio, making the player character effectively lower level than the enemies. Just a way to nerf oneself to make questing fun again on higher level characters. Now I make a new low level character if I want to enjoy a quest line, cause it's just not fun with an uber powered high level char.

You're not alone, believe me. Questing makes up the majority of content in this game, and out growing it before you even hit level ten is absurd.

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

But I still think this is more about wanting upgraded drops than the difficulty of the boss. And that would not be fair to the rest of the playerbase.

It’s almost like I foresaw that very problem in previous threads and made the reward specifically cosmetic as to address that concern.

The storyline bosses are what they are. Their difficulty shouldn't change or it's not the same quest. Saying "Go kill this main enemy" or "Go kill this boss with special rewards" completely changes the point of the questline. And it does make the second option inaccessible to the new and average players.

No one should anyone be able to change the boss and get a better reward, especially in the storyline quests that are the backbone of the game.

It's almost like there should be incentive to either get somewhat stronger or group up with friends in an mmo designed to last you for years. How horrid.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Well.... I'm not sure cosmetics are really a "better reward".

Many players put a lot of effort into earning cosmetics, like skins for example. Any many collect mounts and vanity pets. None of which affect game play, but are just as important to them.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

It's almost like there should be incentive to either get somewhat stronger or group up with friends in an mmo designed to last you for years. How horrid.

They give us a game with many ways to enjoy it. They don't tell us how we have to play it, and neither should anyone else.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh, there's already a lot of people playing who can't do the hard content for things like skins etc. So if it's only more of that sort of thing it's not really a big deal.

Not a big deal to you, but it is for many others.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree. But thank you for your sig info so I could look up Amorphis.

It's where I got my name and I identify with it.

And thanks, from Silver to Sylver.

eKsDee wrote: »

the vast majority of players... would rather play entirely to relax, unwind and have fun...

YES! And what is wrong with that? Isn't that the entire premise of entertainment?

Iccotak wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

And round and round it goes. OP, I'm sorry, but if you're looking for actually engaging questing content, I'd look for something else other than ESO. Arguing for it to be any different is going to get you nowhere, as we see in this very thread, because the vast majority of players simply do not want to put effort into their gameplay, and would rather play entirely to relax, unwind and have fun, without thinking.

This isn’t a poll and the “majority” are two-three people going back and forth.
Plenty other people here have agreed that there’s a problem with the current format for story bosses or have no issue with the proposal.

Two to three people in this thread, meanwhile there's how many in game who have no idea the forums existed and would riot even at something entirely useless being taken away from them (see the various threads that popped up when Crystal Blast was replaced with Crystal Weapon)?

I'm in full favour of an optional difficulty increase in not only questing content, but all overland content, but I've simply come to accept the reality that it's not going to happen because the people who pay Zenimax's bills are from the same cut as those who are arguing against this.

Even if by some miracle it did happen, you'd have an absolute metric *** ton of salt being dumped all over the forums, let alone in-game chat, to the point where it'd likely be rolled back or significantly nerfed. I'd love if an optional difficulty increase were to come without any of this coming with it, but I seriously doubt that'd be the case.

Other MMO's are able to offer a more casual experience while still keeping overland and questing content engaging enough for veteran players, especially when you consider achievements that can sometimes take a duo/trio to smoothly complete, so I'd honestly just move over to them and find one that works for you, rather than engaging in pointless back and forth on a problem that probably isn't going to be fixed, if I were you.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Main story quests are for everyone. Therefor they need to be accessible to everyone.

Creating vet zones will only separate the player population, which is what One Tamriel was introduced to correct.

If you want more of a challenge, there are vet dungeons and trials.

"Everyone" should include those who aren't level 1. That goes both ways. Unless you just picked up the game yesterday, these hyped boss fights are going to be the most anti climactic thing you'll experience in game. And that would be for a large majority of the player base.

It being anti-climatic doesn't make it inaccessible. It being too hard for a low level to complete does.

It would seem no one actually read the original post, in which case I'm not going to waste time making my point. I'll say this only, however: if you can pick up a video game, and beat the entirety of its story without putting any effort into making yourself stronger and leveling, then that game's story is a failure in my eyes.

I did read it. And i responded multiple times directly to your points. The response you quoted is a response to your idea it should "go both ways." Anti-climatic is NOT an accessibility issue. So no, that point does not go both ways. Anything a new player can do, a vet player can do too. The same is NOT true in reverse.

This is not a single player game. It is an MMO. Some content is designed for new players to complete and get ALL of the rewards. Questing is that content for this game, and any suggestion for making the bosses harder for vet players should respect that.

This one doesn't, taking the most desirable rewards and giving them to vet players. There is enough of that type of content in this game.

Newer and more casual players only have quests and delves, they don't need to lose anymore content.

You're right, it's an mmo. That's trying to act like a single player game, and doing a terrible job of it. Once again, the OP stated there should be an *optional* difficulty for those of us who would actually like to immerse ourselves in the story. There is not a single downside to an optional difficulty, no matter how hard you try to convince me.

There are up and downsides to any position. New players being gate kept out of all the rewards in the only content designed for them, is objectively a downside to this suggestion. A new player is not a vet player. Anything challening for a vet player will be impossible for most any new player. So objectively, they are gate kept out of that content.

op·tion·al
/ˈäpSH(ə)n(ə)l/

adjective
available to be chosen but not obligatory.

And to finish the content and get all the rewards, it would be obligatory to complete it on vet under your proposal.

Right now, they can complete the quests and get ALL associated achievements in rewards. To get that exact same place now, they would be required to do it on Vet. Which means it would be OBLIGATORY to complete it on vet to achieve the same thing they achieve right now without vet content. That is NOT optional.

eKsDee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

the vast majority of players... would rather play entirely to relax, unwind and have fun...

YES! And what is wrong with that? Isn't that the entire premise of entertainment?

There's nothing wrong with that, nothing at all! What's wrong is that these players want this so much, that they don't even want to entertain the idea of allowing someone else to have anything remotely akin to a challenge, without even affecting themselves, so much so that they'd waste time on the forums going around in pointless circles, in pointless threads.

It wouldn't effect me. It would effect new players. Like, just factually, they go from being able to complete a piece of content and get all of it's achievements and rewards to not being able to under this proposal.

I'm not the only kind of player that matters. There needs to be content that is able to be fully completed by every type of player. PvPers, vet players, elite raiders, and yes new players too.

Right now, new players and casual players have quests and delves, and some of the older dlc world bosses and world events

Mid level players have normal dlc dungeons and vet base game dungeons, newer dlc world bosses and events

Vet players have vet dlc dungeons and vet base game trials

And elite raiders have vet dlc trials and achievements for vet dlc dungeons

And ofc pvp breaks down similarly

There is a clear progression in content difficulty, with all levels of players having something rewarding and completely finishable on their own or with others of their skill level.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

the vast majority of players... would rather play entirely to relax, unwind and have fun...

YES! And what is wrong with that? Isn't that the entire premise of entertainment?

There's nothing wrong with that, nothing at all! What's wrong is that these players want this so much, that they don't even want to entertain the idea of allowing someone else to have anything remotely akin to a challenge, without even affecting themselves, so much so that they'd waste time on the forums going around in pointless circles, in pointless threads.

It wouldn't effect me. It would effect new players. Like, just factually, they go from being able to complete a piece of content and get all of it's achievements and rewards to not being able to under this proposal.

I'm not the only kind of player that matters. In other for an MMO to thrive their MUST be at least some content that a new player can totally complete all on their own.

GW2 is another MMO that isn't that far behind ESO in terms of population, and is even considered to be an ultra casual MMO, and yet it's able to have achievements that literally require players to know how to properly play (kill a quest boss in a certain amount of time, kill a quest boss without letting the boss perform a specific mechanic, kill a quest boss without damaging them using a special weapon that deals up to 10x more damage than your normal weapons, etc), and in some cases even requires a group to smoothly complete, and yet nobody complains about them there.

So either this problem is entirely limited to ESO (which would mean it's not an issue with MMO's, like you're saying), or it's a problem that you're thinking that new players would have or even care about when in reality they don't (which I'd argue the vast majority simply don't care if they can't complete an achievement).

Either way, it's ridiculous to shoot down an optional difficulty increase just because you think it may offend newer players. It's optional, it's entirely up to them whether they want to run the content with the difficulty increase or not. Whether it has or doesn't have extra achievements or better rewards shouldn't matter, for the reasons I outlined above. There's no good reason that you have to be shooting down this suggestion.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

And to finish the content and get all the rewards, it would be obligatory to complete it on vet under your proposal.

Right now, they can complete the quests and get ALL associated achievements in rewards. To get that exact same place now, they would be required to do it on Vet. Which means it would be OBLIGATORY to complete it on vet to achieve the same thing they achieve right now without vet content. That is NOT optional.

But it is. You are not forced to do anything in a difficulty that you dont want to do it in. Getting all associated achievements is optional. No matter how you spin it it will never be obligatory. Getting all rewards will always be optional aswell. No one is forced to get all rewards. People want to get all rewards but that doesnt make it obligatory to actually grind them all nor does it entitle one to get all the rewards simply because one wants them.
In addition normal and veteran are the same content only in another difficulty. Storywise it stays the same content.

That being said I dont see difficulty changes, even optional ones, happening because Zos doesnt really care about that.