Grandchamp1989 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »
DPS is the most important role as everything in ESO rely on raw damage to complete your goals.
The game should reflect this.
Well, the game certainly does cater to DPS....but "raw damage" is not really needed to complete most vet DLC dungeons(aside from maybe vLoM and maybe one or two others) most any of them can be completed with 20k DPS(each DPS) just fine....higher damage certainly makes things faster and easier and allows you to skip mechs, but that is all(not talking hard modes, just vet DLC non-HM). Some fights really high DPS actually becomes a problem(though those are few and far between, but the Nereid boss in vDOM for instance...really high DPS means the tank has to handle 3 stone watchers, the boss, and the frost atro all at once...easy to make a mistake and die under those circumstances, or not have a chance/not notice yet another watcher spawning that takes out some group member...for no death runs there I have had to ask DPS to actually tone it down for that fight)
Anyway, the problem with this attitude that DPS is the most important role is that if that is the case...you don't need tanks or healers at all, after all, raw damage handles all problems and accomplishes all goals right? Damage is of course an important role...but dead DPS deal no damage. A DPS that deals 20k and survives is far preferable to one that deals 60k but dies all the time.
For a pre-made group I can run VASTLY different gear and skills than I do for a pug. With a pre-made I can actually focus on purely tanking and wear sets like Alkosh or Yoln, Powerful Assault, whatever. The healer will be good and be able to help keep me alive, the DPS will be high and my sets and buffs will boost their damage significantly. For a pug its a completely different story...first, I have to wear sets that ensure I survive...and the next consideration is adding damage...because in a pug my buffs won't do much to help their damage and its better to add some of my own(sets/skills always set to change at the press of a button depending on what I observe)
In the end, I see all these people complaining about pug groups, whether its fake tanks, fake DPS, fake healers or whatever...it leads me to wonder why they queue up at all? I mean, are there that many people who run this game solo? Everyone has a friends list...mine is full and I constantly have to remove people from it that I haven't played with in forever, I have 5 guilds...all these people are always looking for people to run pledges or trials, etc. I don't go out of my way to keep my guild slots full or to add people to my friends list but its pretty easy for me to find a group to run pledges/random dungeons with just by asking...regardless of what role I am playing that day...I do mainly tank, but sometimes I will DPS, or rarely heal. When I pug...I just roll the dice and accept whatever group I get, sometimes its high DPS and a smooth fast run, sometimes its low DPS and I have to swap sets/skills to add to the DPS or the heals but its really all the same to me. I actually enjoy the adaptation required. Pug groups are not always(barely ever) ideal and I don't think that is ever going to change regardless of any "solutions" they implement. The more restrictions you add, the smaller the pool of players and the longer the queue times.Maybe the disconnect here is the whole idea of roles. ESO was never supposed to be a strict role-based game and as you can see, you can build your character to perform any of the traditional roles at need. In fact....back before group finder was a thing, while pug groups might ask for a tank or healer in zone chat for a given dungeon...half the time they just didn't care and would just as happily take whoever they could to fill the group. Roles only became as set in stone as they are after group finder was introduced....before that it wasn't uncommon to see many more hybrid builds in an average pug who didn't spec as glass cannon DPS, or tank, or healer, but who ran builds with aspects of all 3(similar to what you see in vMA builds...or rather what you saw when vMA came out...now its just a pure damage burn for most who run through there). The whole role system as defined by ZOS on the group finder screen is very loose and leaves much to the imagination...its only players that have shoehorned people into specific types of builds and have expectations of those who queue as a given role.
I guess it comes down to what it always has...the group finder will give you all kinds of random groups...some good, some bad, some that fill their roles, some that do not. I don't think there is any way to regulate it effectively. The solution of course is simple and one that people dont want to hear: Make a pre-made with your friends who you can talk with beforehand to make sure they understand whatever expectations you have for your group. Want to take in 4 DPS? Premade. Want to take in 4 tanks for some reason? Premade. Want to take in 1 healer and 3 DPS? Premade. Want to queue up through group finder? Take your chances and be ready to adjust to whatever you get.
This is not true. Group Finder has a role selection, which has the same icon for Tanking as the taunts. And the content is designed to have a tank.
Go do Vet Depths of Malatar without a proper tank and tell us if ESO does not have a strict design that expect a tank.
Oh yes, vDOM certainly requires a tank...but name a single dungeon AT LAUNCH that did...oh wait, you cant, because at launch there was no such rigid idea. Yes, there were "roles" but all that was expected is that someone was healing, someone was taunting, and that someone was doing damage. No one cared who did what. At launch you didn't need to spec as a pure tank for anything...it wasn't until Craglorn and its trials came along that you needed a dedicated tank...until that point, you could run any type of hybrid you wanted as long as you were taunting, you were tanking. I can't tell you how many sorc "tanks" were in groups I joined that were tanking in bathrobes and doing just as much damage as the others in the group.Maybe the disconnect here is the whole idea of roles. ESO was never supposed to be a strict role-based game and as you can see, you can build your character to perform any of the traditional roles at need. In fact....back before group finder was a thing, while pug groups might ask for a tank or healer in zone chat for a given dungeon...half the time they just didn't care and would just as happily take whoever they could to fill the group. Roles only became as set in stone as they are after group finder was introduced....
ESO has always had a group finder tool. It has gone through many changes but it has always been a thing. Here's an article from a couple of months after release:
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/955
And the video from the article:
https://youtu.be/vUYFFvZogN8?t=8
Sure...but no one ever used it until group finder as we know it came out. It was all zone chat pugging...usually the zone the dungeon you were wanting to run was located...in fact, I remember standing around the entrance to Fungal Grotto way back when and waiting for people to show up to form a group that way...no one cared if you were a tank or a DPS or a healer....they just wanted 4 people to run the dungeon.
This is, again, not true at all. Before all the power creep, several dungeons on vet and hard mode required a proper tank taunting for most groups. DPS and Healers could be easily one shot by several bosses on the base game dungeons pre-One Tamriel.
This is just another fallacy.
Aside from Selene(who can one shot a tank still occasionally...she is more of a dodging mech than a tanking mech even now) name one boss in base game that required a tank even back then. I played prior to One Tamriel(One Tamriel isnt even early days like I am talking about anyway, I mean shortly after launch), some dungeons were certainly easier with a tank(BCII, WSI, COH II etc) but they could certainly be done without one...I know, I was still DPSing at the time and often did them without a real tank....back when we still had veteran ranks...say what you will, but the role system was certainly not nearly as rigid as players have made it since....without group finder you weren't required to select a role and as such, if you had a tank it was because you had specifically asked for one....many dungeons you didn't bother asking for one because they were in short supply then too and if you could do a dungeon without one, you often did.Maybe the disconnect here is the whole idea of roles. ESO was never supposed to be a strict role-based game and as you can see, you can build your character to perform any of the traditional roles at need. In fact....back before group finder was a thing, while pug groups might ask for a tank or healer in zone chat for a given dungeon...half the time they just didn't care and would just as happily take whoever they could to fill the group. Roles only became as set in stone as they are after group finder was introduced....before that it wasn't uncommon to see many more hybrid builds in an average pug who didn't spec as glass cannon DPS, or tank, or healer, but who ran builds with aspects of all 3(similar to what you see in vMA builds...or rather what you saw when vMA came out...now its just a pure damage burn for most who run through there). The whole role system as defined by ZOS on the group finder screen is very loose and leaves much to the imagination...its only players that have shoehorned people into specific types of builds and have expectations of those who queue as a given role.
I guess it comes down to what it always has...the group finder will give you all kinds of random groups...some good, some bad, some that fill their roles, some that do not. I don't think there is any way to regulate it effectively. The solution of course is simple and one that people dont want to hear: Make a pre-made with your friends who you can talk with beforehand to make sure they understand whatever expectations you have for your group. Want to take in 4 DPS? Premade. Want to take in 4 tanks for some reason? Premade. Want to take in 1 healer and 3 DPS? Premade. Want to queue up through group finder? Take your chances and be ready to adjust to whatever you get.
This is not true. Group Finder has a role selection, which has the same icon for Tanking as the taunts. And the content is designed to have a tank.
Go do Vet Depths of Malatar without a proper tank and tell us if ESO does not have a strict design that expect a tank.
Oh yes, vDOM certainly requires a tank...but name a single dungeon AT LAUNCH that did...oh wait, you cant, because at launch there was no such rigid idea. Yes, there were "roles" but all that was expected is that someone was healing, someone was taunting, and that someone was doing damage. No one cared who did what. At launch you didn't need to spec as a pure tank for anything...it wasn't until Craglorn and its trials came along that you needed a dedicated tank...until that point, you could run any type of hybrid you wanted as long as you were taunting, you were tanking. I can't tell you how many sorc "tanks" were in groups I joined that were tanking in bathrobes and doing just as much damage as the others in the group.Maybe the disconnect here is the whole idea of roles. ESO was never supposed to be a strict role-based game and as you can see, you can build your character to perform any of the traditional roles at need. In fact....back before group finder was a thing, while pug groups might ask for a tank or healer in zone chat for a given dungeon...half the time they just didn't care and would just as happily take whoever they could to fill the group. Roles only became as set in stone as they are after group finder was introduced....
ESO has always had a group finder tool. It has gone through many changes but it has always been a thing. Here's an article from a couple of months after release:
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/955
And the video from the article:
https://youtu.be/vUYFFvZogN8?t=8
Sure...but no one ever used it until group finder as we know it came out. It was all zone chat pugging...usually the zone the dungeon you were wanting to run was located...in fact, I remember standing around the entrance to Fungal Grotto way back when and waiting for people to show up to form a group that way...no one cared if you were a tank or a DPS or a healer....they just wanted 4 people to run the dungeon.
This game has always had a trinity system regardless of whether you decided to ignore that or not.
The whole fake tanking thing is not a feature of build flexibility it's simply a feature of overpowered end game players doing PUGs for content that is trivial to them, that they can easily solo, because the daily PUG XP rewards are the same for any content they do so they PUG a normal dungeon that is way below their capability to get their "chore" over and done with as quickly as possible.
You then get some noob wannabes who see this happening and figure that if they can fake tank so can he. This is the bulk of the fake tanks in normal PUGs these days: not the OP CP 810 decked out in 3 full end-game sets who needs no one else but is in a group only because that's what the daily requires and can easily carry everyone else. The majority of fakes are the wannabe queue jumpers who do it only to get a shorter wait and can't even carry themselves much less the rest of the group.
Anything else said about fake tanking or fake healing is utter BS.
It wasn't me ignoring a trinity system...it was the fact that as an average player at the time, roles were never even explained. Period. The result is that everyone ignored the "trinity" for the most part and just ran whatever group they had. Of course, the better players and guilds of the time would slowly teach the classic trinity to their members....but it was and remains a mostly player imposed system....ZOS has gone along with it in the form of slowly introducing harder and harder hitting ads and bosses, but the role system has certainly grown more rigid over time for whatever reason. Power at the cost of versatility.
What really baffles me about fake tanks(those who do not perform the minimum of taunting and battlefield control) is why they bother to queue at all aside from the random dungeon. I mean...they are perfectly able to solo these dungeons...why saddle yourself with a group that might kick you at the last boss? You don't need a group to complete the pledge after all. Of course...I know exactly why they queue...they queue in the hopes that the other group members will pull some of the aggro off themselves....its far slower to solo a dungeon because you have to spend more resources staying alive.
"Can be done without a tank" is NOT the issue here.
Almost all dungeons now can possible be done without a tank.
This is not an excuse for fake tanks using Group Finder.
GF has a role selection. The tank role selection expects a taunt. If the dungeon can or cannot be done without a tank is not up for discussion. A player that queues as a fake take is breaking the rules and being selfish, costing other people time.
It is as simple as that.
My point is simply that if you are taunting and controlling the battlefield and staying alive, you are tanking...for people who queue as a tank and dont do that...kick them.
20k is not good enough for most dlc vetsGrandchamp1989 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »Almost as big of an issue as fake tanks are the barely above 300 cp’s who que for vet dlc’s and hit like a wet noodle
I honestly think anything past horns of the reach should be locked to 500 cp minimum
I can not count how many times I've played with cp 810 who struggled to break 15k
CP isn't an indication of skill, it's an indication of potential.
For many people they never try to reach their character's potential.
a higher CP lvl limit would also limit tanks and healers from joining vet DLC, and those are already in extremely short supply.
You can be a competent vet DLC tank at cp 300
you can be a competent vet dlc healer at cp 300
DPS is a bit more tricky but you absolutely can break 20k by cp300 despite lacking cp points if you got the proper gear/monster helmet and rotations.
Someone made the decision to let DPS player show how far they've progressed their damage by doing a parse and I agree with this.
DPS is the most important role as everything in ESO rely on raw damage to complete your goals.
The game should reflect this.
AuraStorm43 wrote: »20k is not good enough for most dlc vetsGrandchamp1989 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »Almost as big of an issue as fake tanks are the barely above 300 cp’s who que for vet dlc’s and hit like a wet noodle
I honestly think anything past horns of the reach should be locked to 500 cp minimum
I can not count how many times I've played with cp 810 who struggled to break 15k
CP isn't an indication of skill, it's an indication of potential.
For many people they never try to reach their character's potential.
a higher CP lvl limit would also limit tanks and healers from joining vet DLC, and those are already in extremely short supply.
You can be a competent vet DLC tank at cp 300
you can be a competent vet dlc healer at cp 300
DPS is a bit more tricky but you absolutely can break 20k by cp300 despite lacking cp points if you got the proper gear/monster helmet and rotations.
Someone made the decision to let DPS player show how far they've progressed their damage by doing a parse and I agree with this.
DPS is the most important role as everything in ESO rely on raw damage to complete your goals.
The game should reflect this.
If the group times their ultimate abilities and bursts skillfully they can probably manage it. I'm not going to lie though, a lot of the DLC dungeons do have pretty demanding DPS race mechanics. I personally wouldn't go into one without at least 20k. They love to throw these at you toward the end of long boss fight too just so you can fail at the last minute and have to start all over again. It's pretty sadistic.
AuraStorm43 wrote: »20k is not good enough for most dlc vetsGrandchamp1989 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »Almost as big of an issue as fake tanks are the barely above 300 cp’s who que for vet dlc’s and hit like a wet noodle
I honestly think anything past horns of the reach should be locked to 500 cp minimum
I can not count how many times I've played with cp 810 who struggled to break 15k
CP isn't an indication of skill, it's an indication of potential.
For many people they never try to reach their character's potential.
a higher CP lvl limit would also limit tanks and healers from joining vet DLC, and those are already in extremely short supply.
You can be a competent vet DLC tank at cp 300
you can be a competent vet dlc healer at cp 300
DPS is a bit more tricky but you absolutely can break 20k by cp300 despite lacking cp points if you got the proper gear/monster helmet and rotations.
Someone made the decision to let DPS player show how far they've progressed their damage by doing a parse and I agree with this.
DPS is the most important role as everything in ESO rely on raw damage to complete your goals.
The game should reflect this.
There is a lot of talk about low DPS, but let me tell you as someone who, for the last 2 years, basically mostly PUG-tanked Vet dungeons for pledges, including vDLCs in 3 classes (DK, NB and Necro): this is not as big of a problem as fake tanks.
If I tank all vet pledges in one week, I'll be in 21 groups. Most of those groups will have more than enough DPS to finish every dungeon, even the vDLC ones (notable exceptions are vMHK and vFV).
In one week, I maybe had to give up 2 or at most 3 groups after explaining mechanics and still not having enough DPS. Most weeks I could complete every single pledge without quitting a group due to low DPS.
Now I am doing the same, but on DPS. Only vet dungeons.
Almost 1/5 to 1/4 of my runs have a fake tank. It is almost every other day. Every 2 days or so, one run is ruined by a fake tank.
People that fake tank DO NOT just do it on normal. They DO NOT just do it on base game dungeons. These last couple of days I had fake takes in vet Icereach and vet Scalecaller Peak. Both times, as expected, we couldn't finish.
Let's not pretend that people that are still learning to DPS and queue as DPS is the same kind of problem as people that queue as fake tanks.
When you join a random group, you expect some healer / tank / dps will be bad. That is ok. It is a whole different matter when people intentionally cheat the system with a fake role.
And again, this DOES NOT happen just with normals. Just queue for vets consistently. You are all but guaranteed to get a fake take for a vet pledge more than once a week.
Tanks:
Pay the complainers no mind.
If they Vote-Kick you, just re-queue.
The time lost is theirs, as your re-queue time will be nearly instant and they will have to wait.
If you can "Fake" Tank and still complete the dungeon in less time with a PUG that doesnt vote-kick you, then your time lost will be minimal.
There will always be those who complain instead of taking action.
Milli_Rabbit wrote: »This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.
Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.
So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.
zos needs to prevent this from happening. to tank in a group dungeon pug, you MUST be a tank. they can fix it. and what ya gonna do if the dps queues up with a friend? cant kick. you are gonna have to leave.
This, now its an major difference between someone who slot an taunt and tank an normal dungeon as they can solo it.There is a lot of talk about low DPS, but let me tell you as someone who, for the last 2 years, basically mostly PUG-tanked Vet dungeons for pledges, including vDLCs in 3 classes (DK, NB and Necro): this is not as big of a problem as fake tanks.
If I tank all vet pledges in one week, I'll be in 21 groups. Most of those groups will have more than enough DPS to finish every dungeon, even the vDLC ones (notable exceptions are vMHK and vFV).
In one week, I maybe had to give up 2 or at most 3 groups after explaining mechanics and still not having enough DPS. Most weeks I could complete every single pledge without quitting a group due to low DPS.
Now I am doing the same, but on DPS. Only vet dungeons.
Almost 1/5 to 1/4 of my runs have a fake tank. It is almost every other day. Every 2 days or so, one run is ruined by a fake tank.
People that fake tank DO NOT just do it on normal. They DO NOT just do it on base game dungeons. These last couple of days I had fake takes in vet Icereach and vet Scalecaller Peak. Both times, as expected, we couldn't finish.
Let's not pretend that people that are still learning to DPS and queue as DPS is the same kind of problem as people that queue as fake tanks.
When you join a random group, you expect some healer / tank / dps will be bad. That is ok. It is a whole different matter when people intentionally cheat the system with a fake role.
And again, this DOES NOT happen just with normals. Just queue for vets consistently. You are all but guaranteed to get a fake take for a vet pledge more than once a week.
I agree. I don't even care if it's the easiest dungeon in the game. If the rest of us had to wait in a long queue to get in, and you get in instantly due to faking your role - you're getting kicked.
If you can't do an "easy" dungeon with a fake tank or not one at all that doesn't necessarily needs one, I'm sorry to break it to you but it's a [snip] issue on the dps and healers role.
[Edited to remove Baiting]
It never happens that the actual DPS that respect the system wait 30-40 minutes in queue and then can't complete the dungeon because it requires a tank and someone faked it, right?
I bet you the vast majority of the DPS that use the system correctly would prefer waiting a few more minutes to get a proper tank then to roll the dice with a fake one to get in a few minutes faster.
Just add a roleless queue like BGs so anyone who doesn't need or want the standard three-role group for dungeons can use that instead.
Just add a roleless queue like BGs so anyone who doesn't need or want the standard three-role group for dungeons can use that instead.
likly wouldnt work it isnt only about to have no tank in group its mostly done cause of the way to high waiting time in queue and a roleless queue would be used by less guys... so would take longer so the "fake" tanks would still group in the old queue cause its faster
and btw a few years ago we was able to just flag as all roles so that would be kinda role less
Just add a roleless queue like BGs so anyone who doesn't need or want the standard three-role group for dungeons can use that instead.
likly wouldnt work it isnt only about to have no tank in group its mostly done cause of the way to high waiting time in queue and a roleless queue would be used by less guys... so would take longer so the "fake" tanks would still group in the old queue cause its faster
and btw a few years ago we was able to just flag as all roles so that would be kinda role less
It might work. You aren't waiting for specific roles, so as long as at least 4 people queue up, the group goes in. If the groups continually fail, like in vDLC dungeons, people will stop queuing for random vet so that might cause delays.
Just add a roleless queue like BGs so anyone who doesn't need or want the standard three-role group for dungeons can use that instead.
likly wouldnt work it isnt only about to have no tank in group its mostly done cause of the way to high waiting time in queue and a roleless queue would be used by less guys... so would take longer so the "fake" tanks would still group in the old queue cause its faster
and btw a few years ago we was able to just flag as all roles so that would be kinda role less
It might work. You aren't waiting for specific roles, so as long as at least 4 people queue up, the group goes in. If the groups continually fail, like in vDLC dungeons, people will stop queuing for random vet so that might cause delays.
yes likly ur right. still cant understand the guys doing random vet with fake tanks it has a high cahnce of failing ... but normal i understand u can carry normal solo with a lvl 3 char so i cant understand people blaming others for speeding up a normal run
Just add a roleless queue like BGs so anyone who doesn't need or want the standard three-role group for dungeons can use that instead.
likly wouldnt work it isnt only about to have no tank in group its mostly done cause of the way to high waiting time in queue and a roleless queue would be used by less guys... so would take longer so the "fake" tanks would still group in the old queue cause its faster
and btw a few years ago we was able to just flag as all roles so that would be kinda role less
It might work. You aren't waiting for specific roles, so as long as at least 4 people queue up, the group goes in. If the groups continually fail, like in vDLC dungeons, people will stop queuing for random vet so that might cause delays.
yes likly ur right. still cant understand the guys doing random vet with fake tanks it has a high cahnce of failing ... but normal i understand u can carry normal solo with a lvl 3 char so i cant understand people blaming others for speeding up a normal run
Milli_Rabbit wrote: »This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.
Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.
So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.
To be fair, this isn't always the tanks fault. When DPS pulls a group, a tank has to re-aggro them one-by-one. Which might take a while since everyone is running everywhere to stay alive, and mobs also run to the furthest players. Worst is, DPS actually think runs go faster when they pull groups.If a tank fails to do *their job they're exposed very early on in the run....vote to kick as I'm sure the entire group would approve since running for your life left and right gets old fast!
BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Milli_Rabbit wrote: »This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.
Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.
So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.
TBH, the bigger issue with the dungeon finder isn't fake tanks - its fake DPS. Especially in normal content, 4 DPS can simply burn through, usually without any issues. Even in harder content, a mag DPS with a resto staff back barred can keep people alive more or less. But DPS hitting for a combined 8-10k dps is the reason why many real tanks don't que, hence why there are so many fake tanks.
That's just the way the game is. TBH, the only way they could solve this system is if they tossed the role system out the window and made dungeons no harder than delves, but then they simply wouldn't be any fun to play. Just gotta take the good with the bad, and if you want to not deal with the shennanigans of the dungeon finder, make a pre-made group from friends or guildmates, or do an LFG in zone and try to be better coordinated with the people you run with.
Swordancer wrote: »`I do play as a fake tank with random groups but I always using taunt skill becouse playing normal non DLC with my character is just too easy. All you need to do is taunt enemy and do DPS. No one ever complaind for that with me. Im not using any special armor or anything else, i just know when to shield, block or dodge. I only switch my tank build (same character) with normal DLC dunegons (only the hard one) and real tank for any veteran dungeon if Im playing with random people.
You just need to be sure that you do not suck as DD and thats it.
There was a time I wasn't using taunt but I was warning people when I joined that Im not a tank and we can handle that without any problems with me. I just warning that im rushing and I don't care if somone do not agree on this, I leave so they can find somone else.
Now I just play as tank with powerful DD and it is so much faster to complete dunegon when you got low CP people in your team.
BTW. You won't change people style of playing. Group finder sucks and you should complain about that for the most of the time. The right group finder with correct filters can reduce the issue to the minimum