Should characters who queue as vet dps pass a dps check ala gran turismo licensing requirements?

daim · October 2020

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

If you can't handle it, don't do it.

I love addons, however I think they should ban all DPS addons. DPS meters make every game community worse, not better.

Tabbycat · October 2020

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Let's keep this game as non-elitist as possible.

Kalik_Gold · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

How much DPS check? It can't be super high.... On a special dummy at the fighter's guild? Sure

BXR_Lonestar · October 2020

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

I voted no on this.

I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.

I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.

TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.

To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.

spartaxoxo · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Curious_Death wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Base game vet "1" dungeons 15k
Base game vet "2" dungeons 25k
Early dlc dungeon 30k
Late dlc dungeons 35k

Still leaves a lot of room but ensures a minimum requirement group can pass a clear. HM is another story.

You don't need 35k to run any dungeon that I'm aware of. That seems way too high. Most of the playerbase is sitting at 25k or less.

yes u do - imagine FG 1 vet boss catches second DD - 1st dd needs to do ~30k dps on shadow to save mate - most fails...

edit#1:

vet FangLair - ghost spawns near second DD and catches him - 1st dd must do +30k dps to save him quick - most fails

edit#2:

ANY mechanics that require BURST of dmg to stop it - kills team if DD is low or ... low dd throw theirs burden on healer shoulders or tank shoulders...

I have seen many groups pass those checks with less than 30k dps. I am quite certain you do not need that much dps to pass those tests.

AyaDark · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I voted no on this.

I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.

I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.

TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.

To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.

Yes. And dps on dummy do not show real skill of player.

But unfortunatly addons and eso logs exist. People can look your gear and etc.I think it is more like your privat information people must not see, but they see.

All this stuff must be for self training not to be shown to others.

I can see how people play in real situation. But nothing can be seen by dps.

< 40k - not good dps.
>55k - glass cannon.

40-50 k who is better ?

And for dummy i do not use real rotation i use in Dunguans as example by the way.

I have 40 k dps in real gear, and 50+ on dummy.

Because i put more heals and do not use attack ultimate.

It is silly. And shows really nothing.

Exept may be 40- k do not know DPS basics, 55k+ will be dead all the way.

ATomiX69 · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

A skill check should be needed for every role before you can queue dungeons, or ppl need to stop crying about fake this fake that when 90% of the time its just fake dps.

spartaxoxo · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

AyaDark wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I voted no on this.

I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.

I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.

TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.

To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.

Yes. And dps on dummy do not show real skill of player.

But unfortunatly addons and eso logs exist. People can look your gear and etc.I think it is more like your privat information people must not see, but they see.

All this stuff must be for self training not to be shown to others.

I can see how people play in real situation. But nothing can be seen by dps.

< 40k - not good dps.
>55k - glass cannon.

40-50 k who is better ?

And for dummy i do not use real rotation i use in Dunguans as example by the way.

I have 40 k dps in real gear, and 50+ on dummy.

Because i put more heals and do not use attack ultimate.

It is silly. And shows really nothing.

Exept may be 40- k do not know DPS basics, 55k+ will be dead all the way.

A lot of player deaths comes from not understanding mechanics and that happens regardless of dps number. But there are actual dps checks in some of these dungeons and you legitimately cannot clear the content if you cannot pass them no matter how good you're doing on the rest of the mechanics.

Zos already tries to prevent people who cannot pass those checks and cannot complete the dungeon from joining it with their level restrictions. The problem is that those level restrictions don't actually stop those players from entering. So they go in, fail a lot, and then either get kicked or the rest of their team leaves and they have to try to get carried by their guild. This leaves to a lot of bad feelings and wasted time all around. Nobody is happy in those situations.

The best solution are to either simply not let people who can't hit the dps checks into the dungeons through activity finder, or to eliminate or greatly nerf those checks from the dungeons entirely. This way anything people can queue for they have the ability to clear given enough time and dedication.

I would disagree with people who would want a requirement to be set high enough to clear these things comfortably and quickly. You want fast and easy then make your own damn group.

But I don't think Zos should be letting people queue for things they have no way to clear at all. If they want to be carried anyway, they should make their own group. It's just frustrating for everyone.

zaria · October 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Curious_Death wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Base game vet "1" dungeons 15k
Base game vet "2" dungeons 25k
Early dlc dungeon 30k
Late dlc dungeons 35k

Still leaves a lot of room but ensures a minimum requirement group can pass a clear. HM is another story.

You don't need 35k to run any dungeon that I'm aware of. That seems way too high. Most of the playerbase is sitting at 25k or less.

yes u do - imagine FG 1 vet boss catches second DD - 1st dd needs to do ~30k dps on shadow to save mate - most fails...

edit#1:

vet FangLair - ghost spawns near second DD and catches him - 1st dd must do +30k dps to save him quick - most fails

edit#2:

ANY mechanics that require BURST of dmg to stop it - kills team if DD is low or ... low dd throw theirs burden on healer shoulders or tank shoulders...

I have seen many groups pass those checks with less than 30k dps. I am quite certain you do not need that much dps to pass those tests.

Yes, remember first clear of vFL, group dps was a bit above 30k, main issue on the ghost was 30 K something.
Groups main issue was mechanics, that is the benefit of an high dps, you are not subject to mechanics for long.
Even an fight like CoH2 second last boss has this, the lower the dps the more times must you roll out and risk doing mistakes.
I say pugging nCoH2 is probably harder than vCoH2, as second boss can easy wipe an group in normal and they who do normal tend to be much less skilled.

Aznarb · October 2020

LordSarevok wrote: »

I just got booted from number 3 vet dlc! I had Ebon and Yohln with double frost staves, actually effective. Guy kept asking where my shield was, I was like don't need one with frost staves. Keep in mind this guy was pulling about 6k dps. They initiated a kick and booted me before first boss. Where is the tolerance!!? Why are they gating me and not letting me play how I want!?!

The fun thing is, if your dual frost tank is build correctly it can do every HM 4man. Done all of them with my Templar tanking on magicka :>
Not the best to support group but enough to do the main job : Tanking.

AyaDark · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I voted no on this.

I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.

I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.

TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.

To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.

Yes. And dps on dummy do not show real skill of player.

But unfortunatly addons and eso logs exist. People can look your gear and etc.I think it is more like your privat information people must not see, but they see.

All this stuff must be for self training not to be shown to others.

I can see how people play in real situation. But nothing can be seen by dps.

< 40k - not good dps.
>55k - glass cannon.

40-50 k who is better ?

And for dummy i do not use real rotation i use in Dunguans as example by the way.

I have 40 k dps in real gear, and 50+ on dummy.

Because i put more heals and do not use attack ultimate.

It is silly. And shows really nothing.

Exept may be 40- k do not know DPS basics, 55k+ will be dead all the way.

A lot of player deaths comes from not understanding mechanics and that happens regardless of dps number. But there are actual dps checks in some of these dungeons and you legitimately cannot clear the content if you cannot pass them no matter how good you're doing on the rest of the mechanics.

Zos already tries to prevent people who cannot pass those checks and cannot complete the dungeon from joining it with their level restrictions. The problem is that those level restrictions don't actually stop those players from entering. So they go in, fail a lot, and then either get kicked or the rest of their team leaves and they have to try to get carried by their guild. This leaves to a lot of bad feelings and wasted time all around. Nobody is happy in those situations.

The best solution are to either simply not let people who can't hit the dps checks into the dungeons through activity finder, or to eliminate or greatly nerf those checks from the dungeons entirely. This way anything people can queue for they have the ability to clear given enough time and dedication.

I would disagree with people who would want a requirement to be set high enough to clear these things comfortably and quickly. You want fast and easy then make your own damn group.

But I don't think Zos should be letting people queue for things they have no way to clear at all. If they want to be carried anyway, they should make their own group. It's just frustrating for everyone.

I first try Veledret on vet on 120+cp, it one shots my tank in 48 level gear.
On 160+ cp with 160 + gear i already have no problem with it even on HM.

Now DLC are 300+ and ?

I like randoms for there randomness

But yes. If they do not like fake tanks, the same goes to tanks, who do not like fake dps.

I do not understand why do not people get it.

And if some " undaunted quest like get role to dunguan " will be added, i am not sure that all can get one. And even if they do, how it can be prevented? They just can buy it like arena weapons before.

So it will not show anything again.

All weneed people just understand it and be more partient to others.
Now party are really toxic. Not even in teso in all MmoRpgs.

To many oeople with not enough of games understanding are playing and it is not bad.
Bad is, that yhey do not want to learn.

One man say, that i do not make progress, but reality is he just play bad. I do some HM of vDLC duo. All he do damage dummy and play dead. I can not solo DLC because of some nechanick, how do i progress ? Play dead and damage dummy more ?

But he think another way.
Or may be he jyst like to play dead

spartaxoxo · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

AyaDark wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I voted no on this.

I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.

I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.

TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.

To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.

Yes. And dps on dummy do not show real skill of player.

But unfortunatly addons and eso logs exist. People can look your gear and etc.I think it is more like your privat information people must not see, but they see.

All this stuff must be for self training not to be shown to others.

I can see how people play in real situation. But nothing can be seen by dps.

< 40k - not good dps.
>55k - glass cannon.

40-50 k who is better ?

And for dummy i do not use real rotation i use in Dunguans as example by the way.

I have 40 k dps in real gear, and 50+ on dummy.

Because i put more heals and do not use attack ultimate.

It is silly. And shows really nothing.

Exept may be 40- k do not know DPS basics, 55k+ will be dead all the way.

A lot of player deaths comes from not understanding mechanics and that happens regardless of dps number. But there are actual dps checks in some of these dungeons and you legitimately cannot clear the content if you cannot pass them no matter how good you're doing on the rest of the mechanics.

Zos already tries to prevent people who cannot pass those checks and cannot complete the dungeon from joining it with their level restrictions. The problem is that those level restrictions don't actually stop those players from entering. So they go in, fail a lot, and then either get kicked or the rest of their team leaves and they have to try to get carried by their guild. This leaves to a lot of bad feelings and wasted time all around. Nobody is happy in those situations.

The best solution are to either simply not let people who can't hit the dps checks into the dungeons through activity finder, or to eliminate or greatly nerf those checks from the dungeons entirely. This way anything people can queue for they have the ability to clear given enough time and dedication.

I would disagree with people who would want a requirement to be set high enough to clear these things comfortably and quickly. You want fast and easy then make your own damn group.

But I don't think Zos should be letting people queue for things they have no way to clear at all. If they want to be carried anyway, they should make their own group. It's just frustrating for everyone.

I first try Veledret on vet on 120+cp, it one shots my tank in 48 level gear.
On 160+ cp with 160 + gear i already have no problem with it even on HM.

Now DLC are 300+ and ?

I like randoms for there randomness

But yes. If they do not like fake tanks, the same goes to tanks, who do not like fake dps.

I do not understand why do not people get it.

And if some " undaunted quest like get role to dunguan " will be added, i am not sure that all can get one. And even if they do, how it can be prevented? They just can buy it like arena weapons before.

So it will not show anything again.

All weneed people just understand it and be more partient to others.
Now party are really toxic. Not even in teso in all MmoRpgs.

To many oeople with not enough of games understanding are playing and it is not bad.
Bad is, that yhey do not want to learn.

One man say, that i do not make progress, but reality is he just play bad. I do some HM of vDLC duo. All he do damage dummy and play dead. I can not solo DLC because of some nechanick, how do i progress ? Play dead and damage dummy more ?

But he think another way.
Or may be he jyst like to play dead

There shouldn't be anything preventing them entering the dungeon.This should only apply to the activity finder. If a guild wants to help someone do it, that should be okay

Eormenric · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Threads like this have been popping up for years. Sadly, nothing has been done to understand why they do. A DPS check-sort-of-system would have its benefits, but implementation is key.

To this effect, I don't understand why a Training Grounds hasn't been implemented:

1) It would be a solo instance that includes a single target dummy.
2) An NPC would tell you to prepare and attack the dummy with all you've got for 1 minute.
3) Then, the target dummy would run to another area of the room and wait there for 15 seconds before running again. It would do this for another minute while razor blades pass between you and the target dummy (a movement test). If you die to the razor blades, you automatically revive as if from a wayshrine to begin dpsing again.
4) Finally, lots of target dummies would run in, continuously for 1 minute, and surround the first one, slowly healing it up (an AoE test).
5) By the end, you would have been in combat for 3-5min and your average dps would be calculated. There would be tiers of awards: Bronze, Silver, Gold (or 10k, 20k, 30k dps). Bronze would get you into all normal dungeons. Silver would get you into all veteran dungeons. And Gold (provided they implement this later) would get you into Trial queues. These rewards would be Character-bound achievements and only unlocked once.

Could someone earn the achievements and then choose not to wear the same gear? Sure. Could they have a bad day and not perform as expected? Sure. But some system needs to help regulate what someone is capable of doing.

I've met lots of people that don't know what they can't handle. That's where the game needs to come in and teach them. Yes, mechanics are always key. But damage helps those mechanics function as intended.

TL;DR The game does not teach players what they need to reach in order to do certain content. That is a problem.

LashanW · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

x48rph wrote: »

Plenty of people can punch buttons really fast on a target dummy and get those high numbers

Punching buttons really fast is how you lose dps actually. Because of global cooldowns. Plenty of skilled people don't reach very high dps because of fast button mashing, even if they have best gear and max CP. But I get what you are trying to say about high dps players that are absolutely clueless about every aspect other than dps.

kathandira wrote: »

Nah.

If you queue for a Random Group, you should expect to either roll with what you get, or leave and try again. It is a gamble for sure, but it is the intent of the functionality.

If you want a specific quality of group, then you have to pre-make your own.

This is an irresponsible way of thinking imo (for vet content). I mean I can queue as DD for a vet dungeon with no set items and no weapons equipped and try to kill enemies in a vet dungeon with my bare hands. Very irresponsible and no contribution to the team. And when confronted I can just say "go make a pre-made group if you have even a basic expectation from someone who queued for a vet dungeon, I play how I want." Sure I will get kicked, but I'd have wasted time of 3 other people.

oscarovegren · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

YES YES YES YES! Im so tired of bad DDs. Its a 50/50 if you get good or bad DPS in daily random/random pledge

zaria · October 2020

ATomiX69 wrote: »

A skill check should be needed for every role before you can queue dungeons, or ppl need to stop crying about fake this fake that when 90% of the time its just fake dps.

That would make queuing even more stupid, you port to an test room do the test and then the finder bugs out, do the test again. Now an achievement makes some sense.
Again promoting my undaunted academy as it would also be an nice sandbox for testing out tank an healer builds. DD has dummies and they can do various stuff solo to test that they can do damage and survive.

Donny_Vito · October 2020

And who would have thought this thread wasn't going to be toxic as fringles?

Chapilliams · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Yes yes and yes!

I've played in so many Vet Dungeons on both tank and healer, where you end up wasting an hour or more and not even finishing the dungeon, cause of bad DPS - or DD's who don't do mechs or wish to learn how to do them.

It's not fair for the rest of the group, if you except to be carried through a dungeon - find a premade group then but don't go into pugs.

I play all roles (including PVP) and I've only first started to do vet dungeons on my DD 'cause guess what, I didn't have the dmg before now and I didn't want to be a burden on my team and except them to do my part as well.

CrashTest · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Hard for ZOS to add a wall like that on paid content.

A real simple solution for the player is to make a premade.

Not everyone has a list of good DPS friends or guildies to call on, so this solution isn't viable. Even a premade pug with your own DPS requirements doesn't guarantee good DPS bc people lie to join you and finding replacements while already in the dungeon can be difficult.

A DPS test before entering vet dungeons, especially vDLCs, is a good idea.

Eormenric · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I voted no on this.

I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.

I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.

TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.

To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.

Toxicity grows when people are frustrated and want a solution, but the governing entity does not provide one. It is then up to the player base to create their own measurement of qualification. Think of a job. If there was no barrier of entry, your employer could hire someone with no qualifications. That person then pellets you with questions and you get annoyed because you're trying to do your own thing. Eventually, you go to your boss and say there needs to be a vetting of new hires. Your boss tells you, "Well, these people really want this kind of job. They're doing their best. That should be enough." You then have the exact point we're making here.

Your fear understandably stems from an unknown factor. What number will I need to meet to mollify these people? What if I can't reach it but I know I've cleared the content before? You should be a capable enough person to learn and apply yourself to meet the requirement for the well-being of the veteran dungeon community the same way you needed to earn a degree/level of knowledge to get the job you have now.

Every MMO has tiers of difficulty that introduce previous unseen mechanics. That's the thing. At least WoW provides those new mechanics in a convenient format IN GAME. ESO could learn to do something like that.

Finally, your comment about mechanically difficult fights being reserved for trials and arenas very clearly accommodates you and your preferences. You might not be interested in Trials and Arenas, maybe because you can't do them or just don't like them. So your solution is to push all difficult content into the thing you don't do? You act like communication and compromise in PUGs is impossible. It isn't.

P.S. There are parse dummies available from a wide variety of sources. The same effort you put into wanting to be a good team player can go into acquiring one of these dummies.

CrashTest · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

LordSarevok wrote: »

I'm down for a license test on every class. Tank bashing, positioning, gear, taunts etc. Healer out healing damage, positioning, buffs, ect. These are rare to me though. 95 out of 100 times the fail reasoning is *** poor dps.

Not a bad idea. I used to play a game that had tests for all 3 roles before you could enter vet dungeons.

For tank, it was survive an onslaught.

For heals, it was heal an NPC who ran around and ate every attack and stood in all the fire (basically your average DPS pug).

For DPS, it was a damage test with mechanics too to test your situational awareness. You had to deal damage while simultaneously avoiding fire and self healing when needed.

The tests were challenging but fun.

Casul · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

If someone wants to use the line low CP can't hit these numbers I taught a CP 200 to break 22k. I've seen 810s that can't break 10k. It's all technique.

Dojohoda · October 2020

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Perhaps the Undaunted could hire a Trainer that offers repeatable training quests to make players aware of the use of single target skills, aoe skills, mitigation mechanics, and, maybe, a few of the commonly used enemy mechanics.

LordSarevok · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Nyladreas wrote: »

LordSarevok wrote: »

I say this as sub 10k dps has become a real plague. We talk about fake tanks and fake healers but dps is the reason 90% of groups fail.

Honestly of if this was implemented (because y'all complaining) I'd be one of those people spamming bow LAs just to make you people mad.

Why would I do that? Because this is one of the worst solutions to the problem and is absolutely asinine towards new players.

A big NOPE from me.

What ZOS should do instead is introduce in-game DPS guides, incentives, like a sort of cheap reward system and even NPCs that would teach you how to do decent DPS even with sub-par setups (because it's more than possible to do 30k+ DPS with doing almost nothing.)

And an in-built, in-game Wiki link would also go a LONG way.

Stop thinking people don't care. Most people just don't have a clue.

Did you not read any of my other posts at all? I explicitly explained that I don't blame the player, I blame ZoS. I said this many many times throughout the thread.

LordSarevok · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

They just need to remove the 15-minute penalty timer so fake tanks and horrible dps don't steal 15 minutes of your day. If we could drop group when we see a stamblade just spamming snipe and heavy attacking with a resto staff and re-queue immediately, this wouldn't be an issue.

That would work too!

LordSarevok · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

idk wrote: »

LordSarevok wrote: »

I also think people are missing the point of this poll.

With the statement in the OP biasing the poll, it is pretty clear this is about low dps players. I do not understand how one can think we miss the point of the poll.

The only part that would be lost on players is what was done with gran turismo licensing requirements since no one bothered to explain what they were talking about in that part but that seems pretty minor.

The point is to help the players not ridicule them. How embarrassing would it be to think you are doing ok, queue up for vet, gets dlc and repeatedly get booted? How does that help them in any way shape or form? I want a mechanic to teach them, not go scorched earth on them. I have repeatedly stated throughout this thread that I DO NOT blame the player, I blame ZoS. They have failed the players by adding content they probably want to do, yet set ZERO expectations... Almost >80% of bad dps I come across have no idea! They might be feeling on top of the world for completing vet city of ash 1 and be like, man I'm gonna try city of ash 2 that other one was easy. There is literally zero training, direction, knowledge, or useful tutorials in this game. Direct fail on ZoS.

LordSarevok · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

CrashTest wrote: »

LordSarevok wrote: »

I'm down for a license test on every class. Tank bashing, positioning, gear, taunts etc. Healer out healing damage, positioning, buffs, ect. These are rare to me though. 95 out of 100 times the fail reasoning is *** poor dps.

Not a bad idea. I used to play a game that had tests for all 3 roles before you could enter vet dungeons.

For tank, it was survive an onslaught.

For heals, it was heal an NPC who ran around and ate every attack and stood in all the fire (basically your average DPS pug).

For DPS, it was a damage test with mechanics too to test your situational awareness. You had to deal damage while simultaneously avoiding fire and self healing when needed.

The tests were challenging but fun.

I'm down for this! Either way the player will learn and grow!

LordSarevok · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

I'm seeing lots of great alternative ideas to my original thought! Makes me have faith in the community more! I appreciate all the dissenting opinions, who also offered their side of the argument. I hope this can continue! My idea may not be the best, but I truly just want ZoS to help the player base accomplish thier goals!

Contaminate · October 2020

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Unfortunately people hate having to live up to any expectations at all

TradoTheOne · October 2020

I would vote for, players who are comming to vet have to complete the norm version first, before trying vet.. mechanic knowledge is king.