Should characters who queue as vet dps pass a dps check ala gran turismo licensing requirements?

Raideen

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

LordSarevok wrote: »

I say this as sub 10k dps has become a real plague. We talk about fake tanks and fake healers but dps is the reason 90% of groups fail.

lolol I just finished Elden Hollow 1 as tank. Me and the healer did 70% of the dmg group dps was 15k
Some DPS are so horrible they resort to trolling.

I vote yes.

Honestly if you do less than 20k DPS you got no place in Vet period as a -damage dealer-, since the healer will outdamage you and you'll sit there holding the entire group hostage for 30-60 minutes.

Vet should be a privilege not a right. Hit a dummy before you can que. If you can't hit 20k on something that stands still. you sure can't do it when it fights back.
Bad DDs got normal as it fits with the content they can clear, without being carried.

We need more tanks and healers in the dungeon finder anyway, and if you can't perform your role properly, in vet anyway, maybe you can help tank or heal instead of bloating the dungeon finder with bad damage.

Then form a premade.

AyaDark

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Raideen wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

LordSarevok wrote: »

I say this as sub 10k dps has become a real plague. We talk about fake tanks and fake healers but dps is the reason 90% of groups fail.

lolol I just finished Elden Hollow 1 as tank. Me and the healer did 70% of the dmg group dps was 15k
Some DPS are so horrible they resort to trolling.

I vote yes.

Honestly if you do less than 20k DPS you got no place in Vet period as a -damage dealer-, since the healer will outdamage you and you'll sit there holding the entire group hostage for 30-60 minutes.

Vet should be a privilege not a right. Hit a dummy before you can que. If you can't hit 20k on something that stands still. you sure can't do it when it fights back.
Bad DDs got normal as it fits with the content they can clear, without being carried.

We need more tanks and healers in the dungeon finder anyway, and if you can't perform your role properly, in vet anyway, maybe you can help tank or heal instead of bloating the dungeon finder with bad damage.

Then form a premade.

Then play with fake heals and tanks and like it

Raideen

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

AyaDark wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

LordSarevok wrote: »

I say this as sub 10k dps has become a real plague. We talk about fake tanks and fake healers but dps is the reason 90% of groups fail.

lolol I just finished Elden Hollow 1 as tank. Me and the healer did 70% of the dmg group dps was 15k
Some DPS are so horrible they resort to trolling.

I vote yes.

Honestly if you do less than 20k DPS you got no place in Vet period as a -damage dealer-, since the healer will outdamage you and you'll sit there holding the entire group hostage for 30-60 minutes.

Vet should be a privilege not a right. Hit a dummy before you can que. If you can't hit 20k on something that stands still. you sure can't do it when it fights back.
Bad DDs got normal as it fits with the content they can clear, without being carried.

We need more tanks and healers in the dungeon finder anyway, and if you can't perform your role properly, in vet anyway, maybe you can help tank or heal instead of bloating the dungeon finder with bad damage.

Then form a premade.

Then play with fake heals and tanks and like it

I do, and I do.

AyaDark

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Raideen wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

LordSarevok wrote: »

I say this as sub 10k dps has become a real plague. We talk about fake tanks and fake healers but dps is the reason 90% of groups fail.

lolol I just finished Elden Hollow 1 as tank. Me and the healer did 70% of the dmg group dps was 15k
Some DPS are so horrible they resort to trolling.

I vote yes.

Honestly if you do less than 20k DPS you got no place in Vet period as a -damage dealer-, since the healer will outdamage you and you'll sit there holding the entire group hostage for 30-60 minutes.

Vet should be a privilege not a right. Hit a dummy before you can que. If you can't hit 20k on something that stands still. you sure can't do it when it fights back.
Bad DDs got normal as it fits with the content they can clear, without being carried.

We need more tanks and healers in the dungeon finder anyway, and if you can't perform your role properly, in vet anyway, maybe you can help tank or heal instead of bloating the dungeon finder with bad damage.

Then form a premade.

Then play with fake heals and tanks and like it

I do, and I do.

Ok. This is honest, as i think
So i see no problems in it

colossalvoids

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Easy solution to implement alongside this "requirements check" another button in RGF to go whatever group it will form as it is right now or queue just among "certified" ones. No one really likes to be a hostage to a group that have no idea what they're doing.

But honestly all it's needed is a proper tutorials, not just first one but the ones after. First dungeon one, first trial etc. Going though some mechanics, how to lay dots while doing it, what to interrupt and what's not etc etc etc., It's not something simple to implement but more of a theme of an update like housing was for example, more complex system.
Make it a solid quest lines, something like going through Undaunted (fighters guild, any organisation) bastion and train, getting new gear and collectibles, pats on the back for doing ok and all that stuff. But looking at the games current state i won't hold my breath to it.

Irfind

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I definitely vote 'yes' or, to be less cutthroat, simply increase the level-gating on all dungeons.

I think that this should be done on a per-dungeon basis because something like vBC2 is infinitely more punishing for lowbee players than vFungalGrotto. And, of course, between an easy vDLC dungeon like White Gold compared to something like vMHK or Frostvault.

CP obviously isn't a 1:1 proxy for your skill at your role but setting the truly difficult vDLC dungeons at like CP600 and above would save a lot of unwitting players from themselves.

CP doesn't say anything about player lvls. (I am 1100+ cp today and dont do vet dlcs)

For an example: I did my first normal dungeon at 300+ cp, i read to mutch in this forum that i need so mutch X dps that i thought "I am to bad anyway".

Today i have all normal and base vets clear but i will never ever do this dlc vets, i like my sanity thx (I duo the normal dlcs with my husband for story and gear, at least with only us 2 nobody rants and kicks me or whatever after 1 wipe)

wishlist14

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

I voted no because some vets are easy even on hm, some are average and then there's some dlc vet dungeons that many vets cant do due to mechanics moreso than dps. It's just my personal opinion based on yrs of playing eso and pugging many vet dungeons.

Curious_Death

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Base game vet "1" dungeons 15k
Base game vet "2" dungeons 25k
Early dlc dungeon 30k
Late dlc dungeons 35k

Still leaves a lot of room but ensures a minimum requirement group can pass a clear. HM is another story.

You don't need 35k to run any dungeon that I'm aware of. That seems way too high. Most of the playerbase is sitting at 25k or less.

yes u do - imagine FG 1 vet boss catches second DD - 1st dd needs to do ~30k dps on shadow to save mate - most fails...

edit#1:

vet FangLair - ghost spawns near second DD and catches him - 1st dd must do +30k dps to save him quick - most fails

edit#2:

ANY mechanics that require BURST of dmg to stop it - kills team if DD is low or ... low dd throw theirs burden on healer shoulders or tank shoulders...

oddbasket

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

ZOS needs to make Moon Hunter Keep part of the base game and a compulsory run at level 45 to complete the undaunted quest to unlock pledges, otherwise DLC dungeons stay locked.

The most frustrating experience queueing for a random is getting MHK when it's pledge day and everyone is clueless. Nobody bashes, even when they taught it to you in the very basic starting tutorial. DPS and Healers never ever think it is their job to do anything else like bash or res or learn mechanics or avoid red areas, and always waiting or relying on someone else make up for their ineptitude. It always has to be the tank to handle mechanics for them, even if the tank is the one being held and they will watch him die and blame tank for dying.

MHK is a very suitable test to see if players are ready for dungeons.

zaria

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Only if healer pass a heal check and thank a tank check

It would only be fair

Old idea of mine is the Undaunted academy. An sort of arena or dungeon with 3 npc and you. First you get an trash fight, then 4-5 bosses with various iconic mechanics, scripted like maelstrom arena, you join as tank dd or healer.
On first boss one get trapped and has to be rescued, second is stand out of stupid and lots of damage, here healer will die and has to be resurected, if healer its the tank, next boss is an add rich run who also is an soft dps check, last is the dps check.
A bit different for healer and tank, as in group take more damage if you are an healer. and the last fight will be more about resource management and position for tank.
Normal mode, vet mode, DLC mode and perhaps an ironman one for achievements.

Sarannah

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Playing as a tank, I practically never experience actually bad DPS in vet dungeons. Only happened like 6-8 times in my entire ESO career(normals+veteran). So those who know they don't do great DPS are already in normals, or simply get kicked enough times to realize they shouldn't be in veteran content.

And there is no reason for a DPS check on normal dungeons, as players are still learning in those. If only players would let them!

Tsar_Gekkou

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

They just need to remove the 15-minute penalty timer so fake tanks and horrible dps don't steal 15 minutes of your day. If we could drop group when we see a stamblade just spamming snipe and heavy attacking with a resto staff and re-queue immediately, this wouldn't be an issue.

Ryuvain

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Dps race is a terrible mechanic. All other mechanics I'm fine with.

Shouldn't have to study and farm for 3 weeks to do this. Also, this cuts off lower cp players who aren't maxed out on cp and crafting.

Scoreboard dps races were never good. Just knowing mechanics and playing smart should be enough. It's essentially a farm gate.

Welkynar

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Although a DPS check is a solution, I think a better solution is making it easier to achieve decent DPS. Without researching online how to make a DPS build and practicing a rotation, players are clueless.

AyaDark

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

If

zaria wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Only if healer pass a heal check and thank a tank check

It would only be fair

Old idea of mine is the Undaunted academy. An sort of arena or dungeon with 3 npc and you. First you get an trash fight, then 4-5 bosses with various iconic mechanics, scripted like maelstrom arena, you join as tank dd or healer.
On first boss one get trapped and has to be rescued, second is stand out of stupid and lots of damage, here healer will die and has to be resurected, if healer its the tank, next boss is an add rich run who also is an soft dps check, last is the dps check.
A bit different for healer and tank, as in group take more damage if you are an healer. and the last fight will be more about resource management and position for tank.
Normal mode, vet mode, DLC mode and perhaps an ironman one for achievements.

The same idea, but all people say is just like:
We want good tanks and heals but - we do not play DD good enough and we do not want to do normal dps.

Something with 30-k dps is not a DD.
I can do 30 k dps with only 1 button.

But people who dont understand it want perfect tanks and heals.

It is not honest do not you think ?

The same tanks and heals for the same DDs then.

Why are not you happy ? Why good tanks and healers must spend time with really bad DPS? If you do not like the same situation for fake tanks ?

Tanks are unplayable now, because of really bad DPS, that always want some thing from you.

Sets, heal snd etc.

But with the game they have, they even do not deserve fake tanks !

With game and attitude they have - all that they deserve is create tank and play it themself !

LashanW

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Nyladreas wrote: »

LordSarevok wrote: »

I say this as sub 10k dps has become a real plague. We talk about fake tanks and fake healers but dps is the reason 90% of groups fail.

Honestly of if this was implemented (because y'all complaining) I'd be one of those people spamming bow LAs just to make you people mad.

If it was implemented and you did 10-15k+ dps against a basic veteran boss by spamming bow LAs, sure why not. If you couldn't achieve it that way, you wouldn't be able to queue for that vet dungeon. People can play however they want, so long as they meet a certain baseline in veteran content.

Nyladreas wrote: »

What ZOS should do instead is introduce in-game DPS guides, incentives, like a sort of cheap reward system and even NPCs that would teach you how to do decent DPS even with sub-par setups (because it's more than possible to do 30k+ DPS with doing almost nothing.)

If ZoS did that, it would be the best thing ever. It's the best solution for sure. However, OP's solution is far more practical and easier to implement compared to that. This solution is not to lock people out of veteran content, it's to give them a small standard to get to. That's one reason dlc dungeons have level requirements. ZoS assumes when a player reaches lvl 45 (for normal) or CP300 (for veteran) they would be better players and can handle that dungeon. Sadly often it's not the case (because the game lacks your solution). So the idea of setting requirements to enter dungeons already exists.

Sarannah wrote: »

Playing as a tank, I practically never experience actually bad DPS in vet dungeons. Only happened like 6-8 times in my entire ESO career(normals+veteran).

Wouldn't it better if it happens zero times in vet content?

Sarannah wrote: »

And there is no reason for a DPS check on normal dungeons, as players are still learning in those. If only players would let them!

I don't think anybody in this thread request dps requirement for normal dungeons. It's strictly for veteran content.

Raideen wrote: »

Then form a premade.

That works. Everybody should just form premade groups for vet. No people in vet queue -> no problems.

x48rph

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Plenty of people can punch buttons really fast on a target dummy and get those high numbers and then constantly die, over and over, to the simplest mechanics cause they can't and/or won't try to learn. They just stand in stupid and then blame the tank and healer. Are you going to put a check in for them too? What about healers who put out less heals then the one self heal I'm slotting? Is there going to a capability check for them too, to make sure they can properly heal in a vet dungeon? Tanks too, need some checks for them as well. Can't clear if they constantly keep dying. Where would you like it to end here? Or people could do what the rest of us do now, if you don't want to take your chances in the group finder, make your own group or go join a pve guild and run with them.

Sephyr

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Just get rid of the vet queue.

idk

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

LordSarevok wrote: »

I also think people are missing the point of this poll.

With the statement in the OP biasing the poll, it is pretty clear this is about low dps players. I do not understand how one can think we miss the point of the poll.

The only part that would be lost on players is what was done with gran turismo licensing requirements since no one bothered to explain what they were talking about in that part but that seems pretty minor.

PrimusNephilim

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Its a PUG run, your expectations are too high. If you want players at your level, start a guild, recruit players to run dungeons/trials, if you're good as you make yourself out to be, teach players what to do and how to gear up.

PN

noneatza

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Are we talking about parsing something like the trial dummy? If so, i don't get it how some people can not reach 20k, i've started playing in june and i did my first parse at like 200cpish with random gear, cant remember, gryphon and hundings maybe? It was 40k with a completely random rotation, i think i was spamming the crit leap thing from 2 handed skill tree lol.

Grandchamp1989

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

noneatza wrote: »

Are we talking about parsing something like the trial dummy? If so, i don't get it how some people can not reach 20k, i've started playing in june and i did my first parse at like 200cpish with random gear, cant remember, gryphon and hundings maybe? It was 40k with a completely random rotation, i think i was spamming the crit leap thing from 2 handed skill tree lol.

Yes, people are up in arms because some of us sugggest you should be able to press buttons when you que for a vet dungeon, and not stand still like a mindless zombie when you're in vet. restricting the zombie playstyle to normal is apparantly taking people's freedom to "play how they wish" away. I guess this is my que to start trolling people by equipping a sword-shield+resto staff as DPS and do some hardmodes!

Wouldn't it be fun if I get grouped with some of these fellas lol. 3k DPS here I come!

AyaDark

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

We help our friend Tank to do no death in vMOS yesterday. 2tanks and 1 dd party. And all was ok.

Thats what normal players do. Not posting about fake tanks.

I was only DD and i did not see any problem in DPS, live by my own and do not say something bad about tank we helped.
Even with 2 tanks in group.

kathandira

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Nah.

If you queue for a Random Group, you should expect to either roll with what you get, or leave and try again. It is a gamble for sure, but it is the intent of the functionality.

If you want a specific quality of group, then you have to pre-make your own.

AyaDark

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

kathandira wrote: »

Nah.

If you queue for a Random Group, you should expect to either roll with what you get, or leave and try again. It is a gamble for sure, but it is the intent of the functionality.

If you want a specific quality of group, then you have to pre-make your own.

+

I think the same. But people want to much from tanks and heals, write about fake ranks, that i think it already is not honest to not write about dds than

I really like randoms because they are randoms. Get some thing random. Try to win in condition like this.

But i really do not like topics about fake sets, roles and etc. I just hope nay be people will understand it this way.

novemberhhh

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Lol just scrolling through here you can tell whos doing the carrying, and who the carries are.

kathandira

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

novemberhhh wrote: »

Lol just scrolling through here you can tell whos doing the carrying, and who the carries are.

41k on a 3m self-buffed, no ele drain. I am certainly not being carried.

I don't mind carrying others though.

ForzaRammer

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

A nanny state is not needed. Players need to have a decent estimate of their own capabilities, and/or communicate with the group they are stuck with. If it's your first time in a dungeon admit you don't know the mechanics - if you do not want to teach a noob, don't kick them - YOU leave. If you only want to run with certain level/skill of players - don't queue.

People being decent humans would go a long way.

The noob should be the one leaves. No way the time of 1 for incapable player is more important than 2 or 3 capable ones.

ForzaRammer

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Honestly i voted yes for the lols, zos should get rid of dungeon finder to improve server performance.
Dungeon finder itself is a nanny system.

Think about how ez it is to form vdsa and vbrp group when there is no que. You can req 80k for vdsa and fill the group in 5 mins.

Make people use zone chat!!!

kathandira

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

how about, PC can have this requirement, but keep it off console.

Too many players on console struggle with DPS since we don't have mods for tracking DoTs, AoEs, and Buffs.

Setting such a requirement on console would make finding a group much more difficult.