Curious_Death wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Base game vet "1" dungeons 15k
Base game vet "2" dungeons 25k
Early dlc dungeon 30k
Late dlc dungeons 35k
Still leaves a lot of room but ensures a minimum requirement group can pass a clear. HM is another story.
You don't need 35k to run any dungeon that I'm aware of. That seems way too high. Most of the playerbase is sitting at 25k or less.
yes u do - imagine FG 1 vet boss catches second DD - 1st dd needs to do ~30k dps on shadow to save mate - most fails...
edit#1:
vet FangLair - ghost spawns near second DD and catches him - 1st dd must do +30k dps to save him quick - most fails
edit#2:
ANY mechanics that require BURST of dmg to stop it - kills team if DD is low or ... low dd throw theirs burden on healer shoulders or tank shoulders...
BXR_Lonestar wrote: »I voted no on this.
I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.
I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.
TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.
To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.
BXR_Lonestar wrote: »I voted no on this.
I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.
I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.
TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.
To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.
Yes. And dps on dummy do not show real skill of player.
But unfortunatly addons and eso logs exist. People can look your gear and etc.I think it is more like your privat information people must not see, but they see.
All this stuff must be for self training not to be shown to others.
I can see how people play in real situation. But nothing can be seen by dps.
< 40k - not good dps.
>55k - glass cannon.
40-50 k who is better ?
And for dummy i do not use real rotation i use in Dunguans as example by the way.
I have 40 k dps in real gear, and 50+ on dummy.
Because i put more heals and do not use attack ultimate.
It is silly. And shows really nothing.
Exept may be 40- k do not know DPS basics, 55k+ will be dead all the way.
Yes, remember first clear of vFL, group dps was a bit above 30k, main issue on the ghost was 30 K something.spartaxoxo wrote: »Curious_Death wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Base game vet "1" dungeons 15k
Base game vet "2" dungeons 25k
Early dlc dungeon 30k
Late dlc dungeons 35k
Still leaves a lot of room but ensures a minimum requirement group can pass a clear. HM is another story.
You don't need 35k to run any dungeon that I'm aware of. That seems way too high. Most of the playerbase is sitting at 25k or less.
yes u do - imagine FG 1 vet boss catches second DD - 1st dd needs to do ~30k dps on shadow to save mate - most fails...
edit#1:
vet FangLair - ghost spawns near second DD and catches him - 1st dd must do +30k dps to save him quick - most fails
edit#2:
ANY mechanics that require BURST of dmg to stop it - kills team if DD is low or ... low dd throw theirs burden on healer shoulders or tank shoulders...
I have seen many groups pass those checks with less than 30k dps. I am quite certain you do not need that much dps to pass those tests.
LordSarevok wrote: »I just got booted from number 3 vet dlc! I had Ebon and Yohln with double frost staves, actually effective. Guy kept asking where my shield was, I was like don't need one with frost staves. Keep in mind this guy was pulling about 6k dps. They initiated a kick and booted me before first boss. Where is the tolerance!!? Why are they gating me and not letting me play how I want!?!
spartaxoxo wrote: »BXR_Lonestar wrote: »I voted no on this.
I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.
I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.
TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.
To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.
Yes. And dps on dummy do not show real skill of player.
But unfortunatly addons and eso logs exist. People can look your gear and etc.I think it is more like your privat information people must not see, but they see.
All this stuff must be for self training not to be shown to others.
I can see how people play in real situation. But nothing can be seen by dps.
< 40k - not good dps.
>55k - glass cannon.
40-50 k who is better ?
And for dummy i do not use real rotation i use in Dunguans as example by the way.
I have 40 k dps in real gear, and 50+ on dummy.
Because i put more heals and do not use attack ultimate.
It is silly. And shows really nothing.
Exept may be 40- k do not know DPS basics, 55k+ will be dead all the way.
A lot of player deaths comes from not understanding mechanics and that happens regardless of dps number. But there are actual dps checks in some of these dungeons and you legitimately cannot clear the content if you cannot pass them no matter how good you're doing on the rest of the mechanics.
Zos already tries to prevent people who cannot pass those checks and cannot complete the dungeon from joining it with their level restrictions. The problem is that those level restrictions don't actually stop those players from entering. So they go in, fail a lot, and then either get kicked or the rest of their team leaves and they have to try to get carried by their guild. This leaves to a lot of bad feelings and wasted time all around. Nobody is happy in those situations.
The best solution are to either simply not let people who can't hit the dps checks into the dungeons through activity finder, or to eliminate or greatly nerf those checks from the dungeons entirely. This way anything people can queue for they have the ability to clear given enough time and dedication.
I would disagree with people who would want a requirement to be set high enough to clear these things comfortably and quickly. You want fast and easy then make your own damn group.
But I don't think Zos should be letting people queue for things they have no way to clear at all. If they want to be carried anyway, they should make their own group. It's just frustrating for everyone.
spartaxoxo wrote: »BXR_Lonestar wrote: »I voted no on this.
I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.
I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.
TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.
To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.
Yes. And dps on dummy do not show real skill of player.
But unfortunatly addons and eso logs exist. People can look your gear and etc.I think it is more like your privat information people must not see, but they see.
All this stuff must be for self training not to be shown to others.
I can see how people play in real situation. But nothing can be seen by dps.
< 40k - not good dps.
>55k - glass cannon.
40-50 k who is better ?
And for dummy i do not use real rotation i use in Dunguans as example by the way.
I have 40 k dps in real gear, and 50+ on dummy.
Because i put more heals and do not use attack ultimate.
It is silly. And shows really nothing.
Exept may be 40- k do not know DPS basics, 55k+ will be dead all the way.
A lot of player deaths comes from not understanding mechanics and that happens regardless of dps number. But there are actual dps checks in some of these dungeons and you legitimately cannot clear the content if you cannot pass them no matter how good you're doing on the rest of the mechanics.
Zos already tries to prevent people who cannot pass those checks and cannot complete the dungeon from joining it with their level restrictions. The problem is that those level restrictions don't actually stop those players from entering. So they go in, fail a lot, and then either get kicked or the rest of their team leaves and they have to try to get carried by their guild. This leaves to a lot of bad feelings and wasted time all around. Nobody is happy in those situations.
The best solution are to either simply not let people who can't hit the dps checks into the dungeons through activity finder, or to eliminate or greatly nerf those checks from the dungeons entirely. This way anything people can queue for they have the ability to clear given enough time and dedication.
I would disagree with people who would want a requirement to be set high enough to clear these things comfortably and quickly. You want fast and easy then make your own damn group.
But I don't think Zos should be letting people queue for things they have no way to clear at all. If they want to be carried anyway, they should make their own group. It's just frustrating for everyone.
I first try Veledret on vet on 120+cp, it one shots my tank in 48 level gear.
On 160+ cp with 160 + gear i already have no problem with it even on HM.
Now DLC are 300+ and ?
I like randoms for there randomness
But yes. If they do not like fake tanks, the same goes to tanks, who do not like fake dps.
I do not understand why do not people get it.
And if some " undaunted quest like get role to dunguan " will be added, i am not sure that all can get one. And even if they do, how it can be prevented? They just can buy it like arena weapons before.
So it will not show anything again.
All weneed people just understand it and be more partient to others.
Now party are really toxic. Not even in teso in all MmoRpgs.
To many oeople with not enough of games understanding are playing and it is not bad.
Bad is, that yhey do not want to learn.
One man say, that i do not make progress, but reality is he just play bad. I do some HM of vDLC duo. All he do damage dummy and play dead. I can not solo DLC because of some nechanick, how do i progress ? Play dead and damage dummy more ?
But he think another way.
Or may be he jyst like to play dead
Punching buttons really fast is how you lose dps actually. Because of global cooldowns. Plenty of skilled people don't reach very high dps because of fast button mashing, even if they have best gear and max CP. But I get what you are trying to say about high dps players that are absolutely clueless about every aspect other than dps.Plenty of people can punch buttons really fast on a target dummy and get those high numbers
This is an irresponsible way of thinking imo (for vet content). I mean I can queue as DD for a vet dungeon with no set items and no weapons equipped and try to kill enemies in a vet dungeon with my bare hands. Very irresponsible and no contribution to the team. And when confronted I can just say "go make a pre-made group if you have even a basic expectation from someone who queued for a vet dungeon, I play how I want." Sure I will get kicked, but I'd have wasted time of 3 other people.kathandira wrote: »Nah.
If you queue for a Random Group, you should expect to either roll with what you get, or leave and try again. It is a gamble for sure, but it is the intent of the functionality.
If you want a specific quality of group, then you have to pre-make your own.
That would make queuing even more stupid, you port to an test room do the test and then the finder bugs out, do the test again. Now an achievement makes some sense.A skill check should be needed for every role before you can queue dungeons, or ppl need to stop crying about fake this fake that when 90% of the time its just fake dps.
Hard for ZOS to add a wall like that on paid content.
A real simple solution for the player is to make a premade.
BXR_Lonestar wrote: »I voted no on this.
I understand the intent, but TBH, DPS parses are the most elitist thing in this game, and everywhere it is used as a measure to determine whether you are qualified to do certain content, toxicity reigns.
I'm a realist and I understand that some encounters are exponentially more difficult without good DPS, but to say that there is an absolute bar preventing people from even trying until they sit in front of a dummy and reach a benchmark parse? Ridiculous, considering many of the people who que up may not even have a guild that has access to a parse dummy.
TBH, I wish they would get rid of the parse dummies altogether and focus on closing the gap in difficulty between veteran and normal dungeons so people have the opportunity to learn the mechanics in and out on normal, and then apply that knowledge to veteran. The skill should not be having so much DPS that you can virtually bypass the mechanics, but rather, the skill comes from mastering those mechanics so that you can execute them under more intense combat on veteran difficulty.
To that end, I also think some of the more mechanically difficult fights should be reserved for trials and arenas, especially since they understand that dungeon content has matchmaking, so not every group is going to be a pre-made group that has the communication necessary to negotiate the more difficult mechanics.
LordSarevok wrote: »I'm down for a license test on every class. Tank bashing, positioning, gear, taunts etc. Healer out healing damage, positioning, buffs, ect. These are rare to me though. 95 out of 100 times the fail reasoning is *** poor dps.
LordSarevok wrote: »I say this as sub 10k dps has become a real plague. We talk about fake tanks and fake healers but dps is the reason 90% of groups fail.
Honestly of if this was implemented (because y'all complaining) I'd be one of those people spamming bow LAs just to make you people mad.
Why would I do that? Because this is one of the worst solutions to the problem and is absolutely asinine towards new players.
A big NOPE from me.
What ZOS should do instead is introduce in-game DPS guides, incentives, like a sort of cheap reward system and even NPCs that would teach you how to do decent DPS even with sub-par setups (because it's more than possible to do 30k+ DPS with doing almost nothing.)
And an in-built, in-game Wiki link would also go a LONG way.
Stop thinking people don't care. Most people just don't have a clue.
Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »They just need to remove the 15-minute penalty timer so fake tanks and horrible dps don't steal 15 minutes of your day. If we could drop group when we see a stamblade just spamming snipe and heavy attacking with a resto staff and re-queue immediately, this wouldn't be an issue.
LordSarevok wrote: »I also think people are missing the point of this poll.
With the statement in the OP biasing the poll, it is pretty clear this is about low dps players. I do not understand how one can think we miss the point of the poll.
The only part that would be lost on players is what was done with gran turismo licensing requirements since no one bothered to explain what they were talking about in that part but that seems pretty minor.
LordSarevok wrote: »I'm down for a license test on every class. Tank bashing, positioning, gear, taunts etc. Healer out healing damage, positioning, buffs, ect. These are rare to me though. 95 out of 100 times the fail reasoning is *** poor dps.
Not a bad idea. I used to play a game that had tests for all 3 roles before you could enter vet dungeons.
For tank, it was survive an onslaught.
For heals, it was heal an NPC who ran around and ate every attack and stood in all the fire (basically your average DPS pug).
For DPS, it was a damage test with mechanics too to test your situational awareness. You had to deal damage while simultaneously avoiding fire and self healing when needed.
The tests were challenging but fun.