Should characters who queue as vet dps pass a dps check ala gran turismo licensing requirements?

RageKing

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

everyone who voted no is trash dps who gets carried through every dungeon. there should be a seperate que for people who have completed some sort of proving ground to affrim your role. if you dont want to do it fine. que with the rest of people who want to run vet dungeons with setless gear and light attack the whole dungeon.

Danksta

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

If people can't pull more than 5K dps, they don't need to farm a monster set since they aren't doing content that would have it make a difference. Everything they need is in the normal dungeons.

Idk, a monster set could double their DPS.

josiahva

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

spartaxoxo wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

While the idea is great in theory, the consequence is that a large amount of the playerbase would find themselves locked out of content that they paid for...this would have the effect of pugs having better DPS....at the cost of many people leaving the game...they would not be encouraged to get better...they would be encouraged to quit.

Think of it another way. How many ESO players play Demon Souls/Dark Souls? Very very few....those are great games...but you don't get far in them if you aren't a decent player....most people try those games and quit after a few hours. Whereas people with bad DPS can easily be encouraged and taught how to be better DPS...if they aren't excluded from the start.

In the end, all these problems with group finder stem from the fact people are using group finder....if you have expectations from a group...don't use group finder, make a pre-made and have all your expectations met. As a matter of fact....I have no idea why DPS use group finder at all with the queue times...its far faster to put together a group yourself.

Can we stop with the idea that they would be locked out of content they paid for? They wouldn't be. Pickup groups is a thing. Guild and Friend groups is a thing. Normal mode is a thing. Nobody says "they are locked out of content they paid for" when these people can't do no deaths or speed runs and lose out on titles or cosmetics. Nobody says that they are locked out when they are level 25 and cannot queue for the dungeon.

Part of any videogame is the expectation that are things you have to dedicate time or have the talent in order to do, and that's especially true of multiplayer content. You don't see me complaining that I can't use the Emperor's regalia when I haven't put much effort into pvp. I paid 60 bucks for that content too.

Hell for some of these people it could actually improve their experience greatly. How many casual players have come on this forum time and time again and asked for a way to skip vet dlc content in their random vets? The number is quite high. Have a separate, higher dps check for DLC dungeons like 15k for base and 25k for vet. And guess what, if they don't want to queue for those dungeons they can skip the certification for them. And then never have to worry about them being their random vet again

Fair enough...but the end effect is the same regardless. People will get discouraged and leave and while that may be great for high skill end game people....its bad for the health of the game. I absolutely agree that people need to know their roles to a minimum proficiency, but this type of suggestion is not the way to go about it. People are acting as if its a personal affront to them that random people don't meet their expectations.

RageKing wrote: »

everyone who voted no is trash dps who gets carried through every dungeon. there should be a seperate que for people who have completed some sort of proving ground to affrim your role. if you dont want to do it fine. que with the rest of people who want to run vet dungeons with setless gear and light attack the whole dungeon.

Absolutely wrong. I am a tank, low DPS groups are miserable and sometimes make a dungeon impossible...this is true. From a DPS role, I am a trash DPS, I am lucky if I can hit 35k on a 3mil dummy...but if in a DPS role I also don't queue for vet dungeons so this wouldn't affect me one way or the other.

The concern you people are completely ignoring is that this type of suggestion is going to have the effect of completely decimating the queue numbers. You DPS who are waiting for 45 mins for a dungeon? Guess what? Now you are waiting 2 hours. Tanks who insta-queue? Now waiting 30 minutes. Worse than that, once people have to wait 2 hours for a dungeon...they will stop using group finder ENTIRELY, making the population in queue even smaller. YOUR CHANGES WILL COMPLETELY DESTROY ANY UTILITY GROUP FINDER HAS. Sure...the DPS may be trash and it may take 2 hours to complete a dungeon...but that sure as hell is better than waiting 2 hours just to START a dungeon.

If they implemented a change like this...the same people complaining about random bads performing their roles badly today are going to be back on here complaining that there is no one in queue and GF must be broken.

You guys are again ignoring the simple solution right in front of you that has been there since day one....form a group. Open up your friends list, select a friend that your notes say is a good DPS...and away you go. You don't have to worry about bad DPS in group finder ever again. I make use of my guilds and friends list to find groups all the time...it really isn't hard, and its faster than queuing.

I do random pugs through group finder all the time...but I have stopped expecting anything of them, I just swap gear and skills as needed now based on what I observe. I rarely have trouble completing any dungeons(vet DLC or not) that I queue for because I go in prepared for anything and adjust.

Bad DPS, bad tanking, and bad healing aren't ruining group finder....your expectations are. That being said, I have noticed that DPS in non-DLC vet dungeons seems to be pretty horrible in pugs lately...its why I have taken to hybrid tanking/DPSing lately, the 15k I add brings it back up to barely acceptable.

preevious

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

That's really weird .. plastered over the forums are tales of pure horror, where fake tanks play alongside DD that does 5k DPS.
Yet, I did many, so many vet dungeon runs, much more than I could count...

I ever had to carry the other DD once. Only one single time in a gazillion runs. It was in CoA 2, and the guy later told me he thought he queued in normal. So, it was not even a fake DPS .. the guy just made an error, and in the end, we still made it.

Everytime time, the other DD I'm paired with is adequate-to-great. And I'm dungeon -findering all the time..

So ..

Either I'm the luckiest queueur in all the game ... or most of these complains are bogus and are in fact some "look-how-great-I-Am" posts.

Count me out of this idea, the community is far and large using the dungeon finder appropriately.

Kurat

RageKing wrote: »

everyone who voted no is trash dps who gets carried through every dungeon.

You got it backwards buddy. Everyone who voted no dont care about the low dps player because their own dps is high enough to solo the dungeon. Even when I'm the tank I can do enough dps to clear most vets comfortably. People who demand some kind a check thing need to do better themselves not looking for others to carry you. Alot of people become tanks and healers because they cant dps. And then they demand others to pull good numbers lmao, they have no right.

doomette

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Kurat wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

everyone who voted no is trash dps who gets carried through every dungeon.

You got it backwards buddy. Everyone who voted no dont care about the low dps player because their own dps is high enough to solo the dungeon. Even when I'm the tank I can do enough dps to clear most vets comfortably. People who demand some kind a check thing need to do better themselves not looking for others to carry you. Alot of people become tanks and healers because they cant dps. And then they demand others to pull good numbers lmao, they have no right.

It’s reasonable to expect people to pull their own weight in a dungeon. It’s unreasonable to demand that they also pull everyone else’s weight because the others in the group can’t do it themselves.


As to the original question, I would love a system like that to judge my own performance. I was hesitant to do a vet dungeon until some guildies basically dragged me into one. And was very surprised they weren’t as scary as I thought. Having a concrete way to measure if I’m up to snuff would make me far more comfortable playing with randos, because I know I wouldn’t be requiring those strangers to carry me through content I had no business being in (or getting myself kicked).

Sanguinor2

josiahva wrote: »

The concern you people are completely ignoring is that this type of suggestion is going to have the effect of completely decimating the queue numbers. You DPS who are waiting for 45 mins for a dungeon? Guess what? Now you are waiting 2 hours. Tanks who insta-queue? Now waiting 30 minutes. Worse than that, once people have to wait 2 hours for a dungeon...they will stop using group finder ENTIRELY, making the population in queue even smaller. YOUR CHANGES WILL COMPLETELY DESTROY ANY UTILITY GROUP FINDER HAS. Sure...the DPS may be trash and it may take 2 hours to complete a dungeon...but that sure as hell is better than waiting 2 hours just to START a dungeon.

How exactly does less dps players in GF lead to longer queue time for dps players? Dps players queue times are so long because there is such a massive amount of dps players compared to tanks and healers. Additionally if tanks and healers can be reasonably sure that the dds are actually gonna outdamage a full debuff tank more tanks and healers might queue for vet dungeons again and be it pledges only.

Sililos

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Because the DPS checks worked so well for WoW.

Most low DPS arn't a case of not knowing what they are doing ,tis a case of not wanting too/feeling like giving your group their top effort.

Like how if you are rude too your healer, dont expect to be healed.

renne

No, you shouldn't pass a dps/capability check

Literally just had a DPS queued as a tank in a vet dungeon right now, 19k health, no taunt and strafing the boss with resto staff. Then has the nerve to blame the rest of the group when he's called out on it after he keeps dying and screaming for rezzes.

But sure, you know, let's just gate DPS.

CrashTest

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

RageKing wrote: »

there should be a seperate que for people who have completed some sort of proving ground to affrim your role. if you dont want to do it fine.

Brilliant idea bc it works for everyone.

CrashTest

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

Danksta wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

If people can't pull more than 5K dps, they don't need to farm a monster set since they aren't doing content that would have it make a difference. Everything they need is in the normal dungeons.

Idk, a monster set could double their DPS.

No, it couldn't bc a monster set is only 3-5% of your total DPS.

LashanW

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

josiahva wrote: »

While the idea is great in theory, the consequence is that a large amount of the playerbase would find themselves locked out of content that they paid for.

Are you implying people pay for this game just to see some hardmode specific mechanics in veteran dungeons? Because that's the only content they'll be locked out of. Assuming they can't pass a small dps check. Even then it's not a hard lock. If they want to do veteran dungeons with less than 15k dps, they can always follow the golden answer most people said here, "go make a pre-made group".

josiahva wrote: »

From a DPS role, I am a trash DPS, I am lucky if I can hit 35k on a 3mil dummy...but if in a DPS role I also don't queue for vet dungeons so this wouldn't affect me one way or the other.

Wow, now your comments make sense man. ~30k dps on a 3 mil dummy is NOT trash. It's pretty decent, don't belittle yourself. If I'm tanking a vet dungeon I'd GLADLY take someone with that DPS. It's not top dps sure, but nobody is asking for top dps for pugging vets. Below 15k on 3 mil dummy will be trash dps (even then it's not saying it's a trash player, just lack experience / knowledge / stats etc).

josiahva wrote: »

The concern you people are completely ignoring is that this type of suggestion is going to have the effect of completely decimating the queue numbers. You DPS who are waiting for 45 mins for a dungeon? Guess what? Now you are waiting 2 hours. Tanks who insta-queue? Now waiting 30 minutes. Worse than that, once people have to wait 2 hours for a dungeon...they will stop using group finder ENTIRELY, making the population in queue even smaller. YOUR CHANGES WILL COMPLETELY DESTROY ANY UTILITY GROUP FINDER HAS. Sure...the DPS may be trash and it may take 2 hours to complete a dungeon...but that sure as hell is better than waiting 2 hours just to START a dungeon.

Sorry if I sound rude, but that's not really how math work mate. To have quick queues, those in the queue must be closer to intended role ratio of tank:healer:DD = 1:1:2 Unfortunately amount of DDs in the queue is waay higher than other roles, resulting in long queue times for DDs but shorter queue times for other roles. A small dps check for DDs can help the veteran queues in 2 ways.

• First it will reduce the number of DDs in veteran queue (tanks and healers are not affected). So people in the queue get closer to intended role ratio.
• Healers and Tanks are assured a base minimum dps from the DDs they get from veteran queues -> Support roles are less hesitant to use the veteran queues. Which increases amount of tanks, healers in queue which brings people in the queue closer to intended role ratio.

spartaxoxo

Yes, you must pass a dps/capability check.

josiahva wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

While the idea is great in theory, the consequence is that a large amount of the playerbase would find themselves locked out of content that they paid for...this would have the effect of pugs having better DPS....at the cost of many people leaving the game...they would not be encouraged to get better...they would be encouraged to quit.

Think of it another way. How many ESO players play Demon Souls/Dark Souls? Very very few....those are great games...but you don't get far in them if you aren't a decent player....most people try those games and quit after a few hours. Whereas people with bad DPS can easily be encouraged and taught how to be better DPS...if they aren't excluded from the start.

In the end, all these problems with group finder stem from the fact people are using group finder....if you have expectations from a group...don't use group finder, make a pre-made and have all your expectations met. As a matter of fact....I have no idea why DPS use group finder at all with the queue times...its far faster to put together a group yourself.

Can we stop with the idea that they would be locked out of content they paid for? They wouldn't be. Pickup groups is a thing. Guild and Friend groups is a thing. Normal mode is a thing. Nobody says "they are locked out of content they paid for" when these people can't do no deaths or speed runs and lose out on titles or cosmetics. Nobody says that they are locked out when they are level 25 and cannot queue for the dungeon.

Part of any videogame is the expectation that are things you have to dedicate time or have the talent in order to do, and that's especially true of multiplayer content. You don't see me complaining that I can't use the Emperor's regalia when I haven't put much effort into pvp. I paid 60 bucks for that content too.

Hell for some of these people it could actually improve their experience greatly. How many casual players have come on this forum time and time again and asked for a way to skip vet dlc content in their random vets? The number is quite high. Have a separate, higher dps check for DLC dungeons like 15k for base and 25k for vet. And guess what, if they don't want to queue for those dungeons they can skip the certification for them. And then never have to worry about them being their random vet again

Fair enough...but the end effect is the same regardless. People will get discouraged and leave and while that may be great for high skill end game people....its bad for the health of the game. I absolutely agree that people need to know their roles to a minimum proficiency, but this type of suggestion is not the way to go about it. People are acting as if its a personal affront to them that random people don't meet their expectations.

RageKing wrote: »

everyone who voted no is trash dps who gets carried through every dungeon. there should be a seperate que for people who have completed some sort of proving ground to affrim your role. if you dont want to do it fine. que with the rest of people who want to run vet dungeons with setless gear and light attack the whole dungeon.

Absolutely wrong. I am a tank, low DPS groups are miserable and sometimes make a dungeon impossible...this is true. From a DPS role, I am a trash DPS, I am lucky if I can hit 35k on a 3mil dummy...but if in a DPS role I also don't queue for vet dungeons so this wouldn't affect me one way or the other.

The concern you people are completely ignoring is that this type of suggestion is going to have the effect of completely decimating the queue numbers. You DPS who are waiting for 45 mins for a dungeon? Guess what? Now you are waiting 2 hours. Tanks who insta-queue? Now waiting 30 minutes. Worse than that, once people have to wait 2 hours for a dungeon...they will stop using group finder ENTIRELY, making the population in queue even smaller. YOUR CHANGES WILL COMPLETELY DESTROY ANY UTILITY GROUP FINDER HAS. Sure...the DPS may be trash and it may take 2 hours to complete a dungeon...but that sure as hell is better than waiting 2 hours just to START a dungeon.

If they implemented a change like this...the same people complaining about random bads performing their roles badly today are going to be back on here complaining that there is no one in queue and GF must be broken.

You guys are again ignoring the simple solution right in front of you that has been there since day one....form a group. Open up your friends list, select a friend that your notes say is a good DPS...and away you go. You don't have to worry about bad DPS in group finder ever again. I make use of my guilds and friends list to find groups all the time...it really isn't hard, and its faster than queuing.

I do random pugs through group finder all the time...but I have stopped expecting anything of them, I just swap gear and skills as needed now based on what I observe. I rarely have trouble completing any dungeons(vet DLC or not) that I queue for because I go in prepared for anything and adjust.

Bad DPS, bad tanking, and bad healing aren't ruining group finder....your expectations are. That being said, I have noticed that DPS in non-DLC vet dungeons seems to be pretty horrible in pugs lately...its why I have taken to hybrid tanking/DPSing lately, the 15k I add brings it back up to barely acceptable.

Why would it decimate the queue if the numbers are low? The majority of the people queueing would be unaffected if the numbers were low enough to pass dps checks but high enough most people could hit them. And for the minority of people lost because they are too low, a lot of people would queue now that they know they'll have good enough dps to complete things. One of the reasons tank and healer queues pop so quickly is because of all the tanks and healers that skip this content or only run with guildmates so they aren't in awful experiences. I think that number probably outweighs the number of 5k "dps" trying to do vet.

This would likely improve dps queue times not hurt them. Maybe it would harm queue times of supports and tanks a bit as those bad dps decide they don't want to dps anymore. Maybe they'll even be better at that then tanking and healing.