llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better.
No, they'd like to not get kicked out raids because they choose to use one of the three DESTRUCTION STAFF types in the game.
Also to not be condescended to by tanks trying to swoop in at the last second and appropriate for themselves something that they have been asking for for years.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Same argument that many like myself said when they changed years ago but they doubled down. Ice staff is for tanking they keep telling us that. If the change it ok but right now that's what it is
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Yet again. Thats entirely. And utterly. Support.
Not DD. Doesnt make forst DD-ing (magden or not) desired. At all
(I thought your vocality might be our last chance to get frostDDs... but seeing that it was so easily half-sated, I withdrew that hope)
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Yet again. Thats entirely. And utterly. Support.
Not DD. Doesnt make forst DD-ing (magden or not) desired. At all
(I thought your vocality might be our last chance to get frostDDs... but seeing that it was so easily half-sated, I withdrew that hope)
Hey, I'm not done yet man. First, I just want to get to stable ground which it looks like we just might be this patch. We still do need a legitimate tanking weapon that was built from the ground up to be for tanking, the frost staff is still just a DPS weapon turned into a tanking weapon with a lot of bad skills. While I was originally going to be okay with just this (keep in mind I've been doing this for literally 3 years with us only getting legitimate results coming this year), several people in the frost discord have voiced wishing to continue to making the weapon for purely damage, and so I will continue.
JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Yet again. Thats entirely. And utterly. Support.
Not DD. Doesnt make forst DD-ing (magden or not) desired. At all
(I thought your vocality might be our last chance to get frostDDs... but seeing that it was so easily half-sated, I withdrew that hope)
Hey, I'm not done yet man. First, I just want to get to stable ground which it looks like we just might be this patch. We still do need a legitimate tanking weapon that was built from the ground up to be for tanking, the frost staff is still just a DPS weapon turned into a tanking weapon with a lot of bad skills. While I was originally going to be okay with just this (keep in mind I've been doing this for literally 3 years with us only getting legitimate results coming this year), several people in the frost discord have voiced wishing to continue to making the weapon for purely damage, and so I will continue.
I know you have. I was in the warden discord when it started... (then i went with discord cleanup), and we used to chat a lot about this. Tho I had a diff username there.
But Am, seemingly, much harder to satisfy with ... things that work against what was originaly teased, promised in dev update. What a backstab it was
JohnnieKBaller wrote: »What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?
Uh, any way that we can change the frost (and flame) staff to have a continual hit, like the lightning staff? Why can't a frost/flame staff have a continual stream/flow of frost shards or whatever? Napalm could be cool. Mr. Freeze had a frost gun that was a continual spray (or Loki with the frosty dongle in the first Thor movie if you want to go the magical route). there's little that is more infuriating that winding up for however many seconds with a heavy attack, just to see it miss the target or slam into an effing spider/centipede behind what you're aiming at.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[1] What level/CP are you on Live? [2] What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)? [3] If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use? [4] What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff? [5] With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle? [6] What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities? [7] Do you have any other general feedback?
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[1] What level/CP are you on Live? [2] What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)? [3] If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use? [4] What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff? [5] With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle? [6] What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities? [7] Do you have any other general feedback?
1. 810
2. Tank Main/DPS Alt
3. I use Frost staffs only if I feel I need the extra mitigation on back bar. Example being VCR+ with weapon swap to be safe.
4. The support shield/mitigation seems like a fun inclusion. Ice has always been generally some defensive/cc/support action even the classic mobs use it that way <Build a shield in front of them>. Seems nice that is being included into the toolkit.
The least favorite change is the swap to a destro ability doing a taunt. Stop that. We have a ranged taunt, and it does it better <Inner Fire>.
5. I probably will test it. If brittle is applied easily as a Tank I would just apply it. If not I would use as before. As a DPS I would ignore it.
6. I wouldn't even mind if it was changed to be a mini iceheart within 8-10 meters <5K total shield for all when using Blockade - All damage types>. It would provide a nice incentive for more tanks to drop lightning and provide a little extra with ice if needed. Arena runs and the like for more casual players I could see running it as most will play defensive by nature when they start out.
7. I don't see people changing to ice staff for DPS, and I have no idea why its so important. If something isn't 100% BIS nobody cares, and if it becomes BIS then literally everyone will have to refarm. Nobody wants that.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Same argument that many like myself said when they changed years ago but they doubled down. Ice staff is for tanking they keep telling us that. If the change it ok but right now that's what it is
Yes it tanking staff, i.e. magicka version of snb and thus it making weird that tanking staff have effect like Tri-Focus that based on heavy attacks, i.e. on literally anti-tank action. Like snb doesn't boost your light/heavy attacks damage, it boost defensive actions like more damage to bash.
The Frost Staff version may want to consider applying Minor Vulnerability to targets, if you want to be semi-consistent with m/M Brittle with a different debuff. You have already a protective skill via Wall of Elements, that's effectively a barrier that protects user and group members.Impulse: Each elemental type of this ability and its morphs have gained new functionality.
Flame Impulse now deals bonus damage that scales based on missing health if the target hit was burning.
Frost Impulse now applies Minor Protection to up to 6 group members for 6 seconds.
Shock Impulse now deals 5% more damage for each enemy hit, up to 30%.
Tri-Focus:
This passive no longer causes your Heavy Attacks with a Frost Staff to taunt the enemy.
Increased the strength of the Damage Shield granted from Heavy Attacking with a Frost Staff to 12.5/25% of your Max Health, up from 4/8%.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Same argument that many like myself said when they changed years ago but they doubled down. Ice staff is for tanking they keep telling us that. If the change it ok but right now that's what it is
Yes it tanking staff, i.e. magicka version of snb and thus it making weird that tanking staff have effect like Tri-Focus that based on heavy attacks, i.e. on literally anti-tank action. Like snb doesn't boost your light/heavy attacks damage, it boost defensive actions like more damage to bash.
HA mechanics are not anti tank, check heavy armor passives. It does have weaker passives though. I mean people don't even talk about the speed passive on a S&B which is more important than it sounds especially in these new trials.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Same argument that many like myself said when they changed years ago but they doubled down. Ice staff is for tanking they keep telling us that. If the change it ok but right now that's what it is
Yes it tanking staff, i.e. magicka version of snb and thus it making weird that tanking staff have effect like Tri-Focus that based on heavy attacks, i.e. on literally anti-tank action. Like snb doesn't boost your light/heavy attacks damage, it boost defensive actions like more damage to bash.
HA mechanics are not anti tank, check heavy armor passives. It does have weaker passives though. I mean people don't even talk about the speed passive on a S&B which is more important than it sounds especially in these new trials.
We talk about weapon lines not armor.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Same argument that many like myself said when they changed years ago but they doubled down. Ice staff is for tanking they keep telling us that. If the change it ok but right now that's what it is
Yes it tanking staff, i.e. magicka version of snb and thus it making weird that tanking staff have effect like Tri-Focus that based on heavy attacks, i.e. on literally anti-tank action. Like snb doesn't boost your light/heavy attacks damage, it boost defensive actions like more damage to bash.
HA mechanics are not anti tank, check heavy armor passives. It does have weaker passives though. I mean people don't even talk about the speed passive on a S&B which is more important than it sounds especially in these new trials.
We talk about weapon lines not armor.
I was talking about what you said. Heavy attacks aren't anti tanking and gave you an example.
How does a resource return boost not help tanking in PVE? I mean you can narrow the sample size of this discussion all you want but it doesn't change anything. you can't say that heavy attacks are anti tank and leave it at that. Why is it anti tank?Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Same argument that many like myself said when they changed years ago but they doubled down. Ice staff is for tanking they keep telling us that. If the change it ok but right now that's what it is
Yes it tanking staff, i.e. magicka version of snb and thus it making weird that tanking staff have effect like Tri-Focus that based on heavy attacks, i.e. on literally anti-tank action. Like snb doesn't boost your light/heavy attacks damage, it boost defensive actions like more damage to bash.
HA mechanics are not anti tank, check heavy armor passives. It does have weaker passives though. I mean people don't even talk about the speed passive on a S&B which is more important than it sounds especially in these new trials.
We talk about weapon lines not armor.
I was talking about what you said. Heavy attacks aren't anti tanking and gave you an example.
If you mean Heavy armor passive of boosted heavy attack resource gain it was replacement of Wrath passive in U16 and only coz PvP reasons where straight damage boost passive was changed for passive that indirectly boost damage by boosting sustain coz heavy armor "should not be damage-oriented". Overhaul had nothing to do with pve tanking and especially with weapon lines.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »How does a resource return boost not help tanking in PVE? I mean you can narrow the sample size of this discussion all you want but it doesn't change anything. you can't say that heavy attacks are anti tank and leave it at that. Why is it anti tank?Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Same argument that many like myself said when they changed years ago but they doubled down. Ice staff is for tanking they keep telling us that. If the change it ok but right now that's what it is
Yes it tanking staff, i.e. magicka version of snb and thus it making weird that tanking staff have effect like Tri-Focus that based on heavy attacks, i.e. on literally anti-tank action. Like snb doesn't boost your light/heavy attacks damage, it boost defensive actions like more damage to bash.
HA mechanics are not anti tank, check heavy armor passives. It does have weaker passives though. I mean people don't even talk about the speed passive on a S&B which is more important than it sounds especially in these new trials.
We talk about weapon lines not armor.
I was talking about what you said. Heavy attacks aren't anti tanking and gave you an example.
If you mean Heavy armor passive of boosted heavy attack resource gain it was replacement of Wrath passive in U16 and only coz PvP reasons where straight damage boost passive was changed for passive that indirectly boost damage by boosting sustain coz heavy armor "should not be damage-oriented". Overhaul had nothing to do with pve tanking and especially with weapon lines.
It goes like this - tanking staff should not be bis dps weapon otherwise every dps will use it and gain best of two words survivability-damage, it should just being better usefull or "fun". Imagine all dps would use snb coz suddenly snb would become dps bisVaxtinTheWolf wrote: »Seems to be getting kind of feisty around here. I do like themed builds but personally I'm absolutely not concerned about being top DPS or 'competitive with other classes', I just want it to be fun to use. That's just my outlook so what do I know really, I'm just trying to give opinions and suggestions with what ZoS had already presented for us to work with.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »How does a resource return boost not help tanking in PVE? I mean you can narrow the sample size of this discussion all you want but it doesn't change anything. you can't say that heavy attacks are anti tank and leave it at that. Why is it anti tank?Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Same argument that many like myself said when they changed years ago but they doubled down. Ice staff is for tanking they keep telling us that. If the change it ok but right now that's what it is
Yes it tanking staff, i.e. magicka version of snb and thus it making weird that tanking staff have effect like Tri-Focus that based on heavy attacks, i.e. on literally anti-tank action. Like snb doesn't boost your light/heavy attacks damage, it boost defensive actions like more damage to bash.
HA mechanics are not anti tank, check heavy armor passives. It does have weaker passives though. I mean people don't even talk about the speed passive on a S&B which is more important than it sounds especially in these new trials.
We talk about weapon lines not armor.
I was talking about what you said. Heavy attacks aren't anti tanking and gave you an example.
If you mean Heavy armor passive of boosted heavy attack resource gain it was replacement of Wrath passive in U16 and only coz PvP reasons where straight damage boost passive was changed for passive that indirectly boost damage by boosting sustain coz heavy armor "should not be damage-oriented". Overhaul had nothing to do with pve tanking and especially with weapon lines.
So you coming into discussion about weapon line and talk about armor line that has nothing to do with frost staff tanking then using "example" of tanking that actually has nothing to do with tanking itself and now going offtopic about "narrowing discussion". Literally zero logic.It goes like this - tanking staff should not be bis dps weapon otherwise every dps will use it and gain best of two words survivability-damage, it should just being better usefull or "fun". Imagine all dps would use snb coz suddenly snb would become dps bisVaxtinTheWolf wrote: »Seems to be getting kind of feisty around here. I do like themed builds but personally I'm absolutely not concerned about being top DPS or 'competitive with other classes', I just want it to be fun to use. That's just my outlook so what do I know really, I'm just trying to give opinions and suggestions with what ZoS had already presented for us to work with.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »How does a resource return boost not help tanking in PVE? I mean you can narrow the sample size of this discussion all you want but it doesn't change anything. you can't say that heavy attacks are anti tank and leave it at that. Why is it anti tank?Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.
The Skill line is DESTRUCTION STAFF, what is DESTRUCTIVE about the state of the Frost Staff? Absolutely nothing. It should not be a Tanking tool it should be purely DPS.
Where are the DPS available skills in the S&B and Resto Skill Lines?
Same argument that many like myself said when they changed years ago but they doubled down. Ice staff is for tanking they keep telling us that. If the change it ok but right now that's what it is
Yes it tanking staff, i.e. magicka version of snb and thus it making weird that tanking staff have effect like Tri-Focus that based on heavy attacks, i.e. on literally anti-tank action. Like snb doesn't boost your light/heavy attacks damage, it boost defensive actions like more damage to bash.
HA mechanics are not anti tank, check heavy armor passives. It does have weaker passives though. I mean people don't even talk about the speed passive on a S&B which is more important than it sounds especially in these new trials.
We talk about weapon lines not armor.
I was talking about what you said. Heavy attacks aren't anti tanking and gave you an example.
If you mean Heavy armor passive of boosted heavy attack resource gain it was replacement of Wrath passive in U16 and only coz PvP reasons where straight damage boost passive was changed for passive that indirectly boost damage by boosting sustain coz heavy armor "should not be damage-oriented". Overhaul had nothing to do with pve tanking and especially with weapon lines.
So you coming into discussion about weapon line and talk about armor line that has nothing to do with frost staff tanking then using "example" of tanking that actually has nothing to do with tanking itself and now going offtopic about "narrowing discussion". Literally zero logic.It goes like this - tanking staff should not be bis dps weapon otherwise every dps will use it and gain best of two words survivability-damage, it should just being better usefull or "fun". Imagine all dps would use snb coz suddenly snb would become dps bisVaxtinTheWolf wrote: »Seems to be getting kind of feisty around here. I do like themed builds but personally I'm absolutely not concerned about being top DPS or 'competitive with other classes', I just want it to be fun to use. That's just my outlook so what do I know really, I'm just trying to give opinions and suggestions with what ZoS had already presented for us to work with.