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PTS Update 28 - Feedback Thread for Frost Staff Adjustments

  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
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    What level/CP are you on Live?

    810? Whatever max is, man. I don't remember.

    What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?

    Tank (unwillingly), Stam DPS, Mag DPS

    If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?

    I tank with one on back bar, particularly for Kyne's HM. Never DPS with one because it's been balls.

    What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?

    The Good: Thank you god for removing that worthless, nonsense taunt from the staff. As a tank, it is absolutely infuriating to a pug a dungeon and have some dude running around heavying with his frost staff because it's "thematic" and over-taunting mobs.

    The Bad: I think the frost clench thing is...weird as hell, honestly. We have Inner Fire. What's the actual point of this skill? Maybe if it guaranteed Chilled, it'd be worth it. Or something. I don't really see the point of gimping the wall for it, either.

    With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?

    Maybe? I think a Magden with a Charged frost staff and a frost glyph could be really interesting as a Brittle conduit in trials. Really intrigued to see where that goes.

    What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?

    Don't bring that stupid ass heavy taunt back. Ever. Ever ever ever. It was abysmal. Also, don't force tanks to use magicka to block with a staff. Terrible idea. Optional, sure. Not required. Tanks build very specifically and rigidly for the sustain we need. Having to eat an attack or two on back bar should not throw our entire sustain plan into a tailspin.


    Do you have any other general feedback?

    Not really. Interesting changes, we'll see where they go.
  • Lughlongarm
    Lughlongarm
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    Frost staff Week 3.

    Some Bugs also were not fixed. Blockade of frost for example, still does not proc the chill status effect(week 2 bug). The behavior of brittle is the same as week 1(which was not confirmed as intended), the shield magicka absorb passive still works on every shield and not destro staff shields alone(As far as I could tell).
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    As of PTS v6.2.2:
    This list was created to be as useful as possible to developers and ZOS employees reading. as such I will ping @ZOS_GinaBruno as she is the creator of the thread.
    Known bugs and issues with the Frost Staff and Minor Brittle:
    • Frost AoEs no longer apply chilled and minor brittle: This has been fixed as of testing with unstable wall of frost, Winter's Revenge, Polar Wind and Arctic Blast.
      Proof:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE0qboWs-GU&feature=youtu.be
      @Lughlongarm you might want to look at this
    • Being able to apply minor brittle while a frost staff is not actively equipped: This huge oversight has not been fixed, as of testing with a fire staff on the front bar, and chilled being applied from frost damage aoes from a frost staff backbar. the reason that this is being brought up is because it actively contradicts the sentiments expressed by the team about Minor Brittle, these being:
      Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.
      This iteration going to live further devalues the usefulness of double frost staff DPS, as tanks can easily just apply chilled and brittle from their backbar. Frost DPS have been struggling to be relevant since the beginning of the game's public release. if this change is fixed, it would give more reason to run Frost DPS in trials especially in the future.

      Proof:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nZB79jfTrw&feature=youtu.be

    • Not being able to apply minor brittle with elemental weapon and asylum destro, with frozen watcher inconsistently applying minor brittle: these bugs/issues/oversights have not been fixed.
      Proof:
      https://youtu.be/ioJK0JMhdjM


    Community feedback that has been stated multiple times by various different people:

    These are suggestions by players who are testing these changes, it has been 2 weeks since these were first reported, and while some of these concerns might be addressed in the upcoming weeks, these are pressing matters which hold the staff, and playstyle concerning the staff (Specifically DPS and Tank) back.


    Frost Clench: This skill is useless compared to every other available taunt, and it should be shifted to elemental susceptibility

    Reason(s) why: this skill has less range and utility than other taunts, while costing magicka and rooting enemies to place, stopping them from coming to you.

    Visual Interpretation of a Fix/Reversion:
    bn2g1v4lgo80.png


    Elemental Susceptibility: this skill should gain a taunt

    Reason(s) why: To make a more useful taunt on the destruction staff, to not tie it specifically to frost staff tanking, opening it up to lightning staff tanks, and to make this morph of the skill an option instead of a dead morph. While it doesn't have to be the best taunt option, it should still be useful when compared to Pierce Armor and Inner Fire, currently Frost Clench is not useful in comparison.

    Visual Interpretation of a Rework:
    ov5ii4nn9wav.png


    Unstable Wall of Frost: this skill shouldn't apply a weaker damage shield when it explodes, and should instead lose it's damage shield, for +35% raw damage on it's DoT and +10% on it's explosion. (result is a buff of +10% damage to both the explosion and DoT from live values.)


    Reason(s) why: the reason why this morph should gain damage is because supports looking to use the damage shield on the skill don't have a reason to pick the morph with a lower duration, shorter range and a small shield that will get replaced as soon as the wall runs out of duration, where as frost specific dps don't care for having less dps on their wall when they don't want, or need to apply a projectile specific damage shield to allies. specifically why +35% damage on the DoT and +10% on the explosion is to get the frost wall's damage up to a similar standard that the other walls provide, realistically this is a buff of 10% on both the explosion, and the DoT from live servers in exchange for the loss of the 40% snare.

    Visual Interpretation of a Fix:
    zpupemi5yvjc.png


    Frost Blockade: add the snare back to this morph.

    Reason(s) why: Many tanks used this skill to snare enemies on classes that don't have adequate tools to snare groups of enemies in PvE, such as templar.

    Visual Interpretation of a Fix:
    pyjfcljuqyl7.png


    Frost Impulse: Frost Impulse and it's morphs should gain another damage related effect or should be buffed.

    Reason(s) why: slotting Frost Impulse just for minor protection is not useful enough to be slotted, instead this skill could gain a unique niche for frost DPS, while still hitting the tanking and cc related notes that the frost staff offers.

    Visual Interpretations of multiple Fixes and Changes:

    Option 1: additional damage to enemies afflicted by taunt and disabling effects
    yhtj1b7zep40.png

    Option 2: Critical Focus execute
    b3hfbvk9s4pn.png

    Option 3: Keep current effect, but increase the duration of minor protection to 10 seconds up from 6 to match minor mangle's duration. (Note: this option will likely see the least use out of the other 2 options, but it would still be better than the current iteration.)


    Tri-Focus: This passive is still not worth taking when using a frost staff

    Reason(s) why: the sole reason why this passive isn't worth taking is because tanks and dps don't want to waste magicka for blocking, as that is what stamina is for. (Note: I have heard that this change is possibly coming within this update or the update after, however it's been included as an issue anyway)

    Visual Interpretation of a Fix:
    iui7b76kj64u.png


    Lesser noted issues:

    Icy Rage is still an unused morph as it's effects is quite weak compared to the other elemental versions, adding another damage related effect, or reducing the cost would be beneficial in seeing this morph used more however, please note that reducing the damage of DPS options is not at all desirable by players.


    Thanks for reading this breakdown and summary, if you have anything to add please PM me or join the ESO Frost Discord to let me know.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on October 6, 2020 11:53AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Noldornir
    Noldornir
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    What level/CP are you on Live?

    810
    What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?

    Tank
    If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?

    I use them when I can't drop a lightning one on live, I use Elemental Barrage only and, when I equip a frost staff, I remove my passive so blocking will still cost stamina not magicka
    What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?

    Fav= Brittle debuff -> make the staff worth on a tank instead of goin with duplicate lightnings (healers already use those).

    Least Fav -> Clench-taunt sounds sweet alternative to inner fire/rage BUT it's not because of it's range. Give it a better range or nobody will use it as is. The reason why a tank slots inner fire is the range but 15 mt is widely insufficient range.
    With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?

    Would need further testing but will probably use when main tanking (PVE) to apply brittle on boss.
    What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?

    Include damage morphs for DDs
    Do you have any other general feedback?

    Frost staves was a mock before, nobody used them, now only tanks will.
    If the point was to make said staff a tool for tanks then I'd say well done but, if you want it to be used by DDs this won't be enough.
  • Lughlongarm
    Lughlongarm
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    As of PTS v6.2.2:
    This list was created to be as useful as possible to developers and ZOS employees reading. as such I will ping @ZOS_GinaBruno as she is the creator of the thread.
    Known bugs and issues with the Frost Staff and Minor Brittle:
    • Frost AoEs no longer apply chilled and minor brittle: This has been fixed as of testing with unstable wall of frost, Winter's Revenge, Polar Wind and Arctic Blast.
      Proof:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE0qboWs-GU&feature=youtu.be
      @Lughlongarm you might want to look at this
      Thanx for vid. Been re-testing and you are right. Reason I missed it was due to the fact that chill proc chance on blockade of frost seemed much low compared to live. I could use blockade 3 times for the full duration, on two mobs without getting even one chill. Perhaps it's fine just seems to me that something is off. BTW, you are not using frost glyph on back bar for the tests, right?
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    ✭✭✭✭
    As of PTS v6.2.2:
    This list was created to be as useful as possible to developers and ZOS employees reading. as such I will ping @ZOS_GinaBruno as she is the creator of the thread.
    Known bugs and issues with the Frost Staff and Minor Brittle:
    • Frost AoEs no longer apply chilled and minor brittle: This has been fixed as of testing with unstable wall of frost, Winter's Revenge, Polar Wind and Arctic Blast.
      Proof:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE0qboWs-GU&feature=youtu.be
      @Lughlongarm you might want to look at this
      Thanx for vid. Been re-testing and you are right. Reason I missed it was due to the fact that chill proc chance on blockade of frost seemed much low compared to live. I could use blockade 3 times for the full duration, on two mobs without getting even one chill. Perhaps it's fine just seems to me that something is off. BTW, you are not using frost glyph on back bar for the tests, right?

    i was using an absorb magic glyph :)
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    1. Not completely a frost staff problem but "Ice of Storm" of destro ult is out of standarts.
    First of all its radius kept as 8m similar to its original skill. This is inconsistent coz 8m is radius of ranged/replacable expensive aoe ults like Standard or Nova while player-based aoe ults are 10m for example Sleet Storm. So radius of morph should be updated to 10meters.
    Secondly its auxiliary effect is noticable lower and as result you dont see anyone use this ult in PvP apart of bombers that trying to get mobile large burst ult. Like, Northern Storm vs Eye of Storm:
    compare-ults.png
    Understandable that class ults should be stronger but regarding destro ult - it require specific weapon choice, cost much more and while damage difference (3648vs4942) not that big it also loose auxiliary effects.
    It could at least compare to similar ult and get 1 more sec of uptime. or Similarly to other morph it could get special effects based on staff type.

    2. Problem with new Destruction Expert after it will be fixed is that if Tri-Focus wont be changed into proc on Bracing once per 10sec than DE wont be possible to reliably proc on anything but Wall of Frost because Frost Impulse doesnt apply damage shield and frost heavy attack is most clunky and slowest heavy attack, especially in pvp it wont be able to connect. So to make passive more reliable either Tri-Focus need to be changed to proc on Bracing or change it into channeled frost-beam heavy attack which is undodgeable similarly to lightning ha. We have example of such attack by Drodda of Icerach boss:
    frost-ha.jpg

    Tho if Tri-Focus wont loose manablock passive it will still be too bad to invest into passive.

    3. Again about Frost Impulse, since its effect has same radius as damage radius:
    A. I personally prefer to turn Frost Impulse buff into own efefct similarly to Frost Safeguard of Wall of Frost, especially since it will perform similarly to how it work now - it cant be stacked same as minor protection now or frost safeguard.
    B. Another idea is to make so it apply healing over time on allies in its range, similarly to Winter Respite set that shows that frost can abe associated with healing.


  • xPoisin
    xPoisin
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    What level/CP are you on Live?

    890

    What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?

    Tank (unwillingly), Mag DPS (mostly), Stam DPS (only trying)


    If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?

    Using on backbar for the immobilize effect on templar tank, using for chilled status effect in PVP on Magden...
    For solo play I am using frost/frost staves for magicka warden because it is in line with warden skills and it looks great :wink:
    For group play I am forced to use flame/lightning staves for DPS, because frost staves are not an option for DPS in harder content...


    What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?

    The BEST: Removing that worthless taunt from the staff.

    The GOOD: Brittle as a specific frost staff bonus

    The Bad: Reduced damage from Wall of frost, damage shields that are not worth to run nowadays in any type of content.


    What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?

    Pleeeaasse make frost staves in line with fire and lightning staves for DPS.
    Don't force tanks to use magicka to block with a staff, stamina is overall best resource for blocking ---- remove the magicka costs for blocking while frost stave equiped.
    Don't force tanks to choose between lightning and frost staff, do not remove the snare / immobilize option from frost staves, it is unique and overall very good also for DPS use (in PVP also).


    Do you have any other general feedback?

    Please consider to make frost staff for DPS as another option and make a new weapon line with spears / poleaxes to be an option for tanks in line with snb line.
  • kernphysiker
    kernphysiker
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    CP810
    Sorc Frost-Tank ( for ever, yeah :)

    Hi,

    i just wanna say i play the frost tank for some years now. the frost staff in combination with trifocus was once founded to make it possible to play a sorc/mag tank with a staff. then somehow most people (majority?, or maybe it were just yutoube and some influencers? ;) said playing a tank with staff is less usefull than playing with onehand and schield and the frost tank gots forgotten... some time later players, who forgott (or never knew) what this "trifocus" is good for, got some info (from those frustrated majority of "onehand/shield" tanks), that it's no good idea to play with a frost staff or to level the trifocus. and what now??? now "trifocus" does not taunt anymore!!! and what about those players (like me) who knew those contexts all the time and who played this "with knowledge about" and deliberately? again we are nerved! i did not need a slot for a taunt before update 28! and i really do have enough shields :)

    but it's ok i'm just a minority and this is just a "minority report" ;)

    so be calm and sorry for my bad english :)
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    1. Not completely a frost staff problem but "Ice of Storm" of destro ult is out of standarts.
    First of all its radius kept as 8m similar to its original skill. This is inconsistent coz 8m is radius of ranged/replacable expensive aoe ults like Standard or Nova while player-based aoe ults are 10m for example Sleet Storm. So radius of morph should be updated to 10meters.
    Secondly its auxiliary effect is noticable lower and as result you dont see anyone use this ult in PvP apart of bombers that trying to get mobile large burst ult. Like, Northern Storm vs Eye of Storm:
    compare-ults.png
    Understandable that class ults should be stronger but regarding destro ult - it require specific weapon choice, cost much more and while damage difference (3648vs4942) not that big it also loose auxiliary effects.
    It could at least compare to similar ult and get 1 more sec of uptime. or Similarly to other morph it could get special effects based on staff type.

    2. Problem with new Destruction Expert after it will be fixed is that if Tri-Focus wont be changed into proc on Bracing once per 10sec than DE wont be possible to reliably proc on anything but Wall of Frost because Frost Impulse doesnt apply damage shield and frost heavy attack is most clunky and slowest heavy attack, especially in pvp it wont be able to connect. So to make passive more reliable either Tri-Focus need to be changed to proc on Bracing or change it into channeled frost-beam heavy attack which is undodgeable similarly to lightning ha. We have example of such attack by Drodda of Icerach boss:
    frost-ha.jpg

    Tho if Tri-Focus wont loose manablock passive it will still be too bad to invest into passive.

    3. Again about Frost Impulse, since its effect has same radius as damage radius:
    A. I personally prefer to turn Frost Impulse buff into own efefct similarly to Frost Safeguard of Wall of Frost, especially since it will perform similarly to how it work now - it cant be stacked same as minor protection now or frost safeguard.
    B. Another idea is to make so it apply healing over time on allies in its range, similarly to Winter Respite set that shows that frost can abe associated with healing.


    A little off topic, but i feel like at this point, given the changes to major protection, northern storm needs to be changed too. What I'd do is target sleet storm at base, give it the 100% chilled proc and 4 extra seconds of duration, but make it lose major protection. With northern storm, it would gain the magicka percentage increase and would keep it's damage, and with permafrost, instead of being super wordy, i think it should gain the damage loss, better snare and major protection, this would help northern storm be more viable as a damage ultimate especially for double frost staff settups, and just in general in pvp, as well as keep permafrost as the utility option for healers that wish to use it
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    Please consider removing the taunt from frost clench, we already have a better ranged taunt, this is not necessary.

    Also please move the frost staff passive damage shield to proc from blocking rather than a fully charged heavy attack that takes a million years to complete, and the shield is too weak for that.
  • josiahva
    josiahva
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    Everyone is happy about removing the "worthless" taunt from the tri focus passive(in reality it was a situationally USEFUL passive, but most people just don't understand how and when to use it) while completely ignoring the fact that the taunt they replaced it with really is truly worthless and will never be used by anyone, ever, for any reason as long as they have access to inner fire....and even without it, a pull+puncture would be a better alternative.
  • SgtNuttzmeg
    SgtNuttzmeg
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    I see alot of people complaining about the projectile shield Frost Staffs provide, personally I really like them. I think they will have a lot of applications in PVP especially given any changes that may occur to PVP after the Testing is concluded. They do see a little lack luster for PVE DPS, perhaps they need to provide more of a dps boon.
    Legions of Mordor Core

    Cold0neFTBs
  • Sedrethi
    Sedrethi
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    • What level/CP are you on Live?
      810+ (~1470)
    • What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?
      Typically, I play as DPS, occasionally a Healer, less commonly a Tank.
    • If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?
      I am running a Frost DPS Warden to squeeze the most out of what little love Frost has been given over the years.
    • What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?
      I am enjoying that it is being given any changes at all due to the lack of love mentioned above over the past several years. I was vocally never a fan of the Tank adjustments to it, but it is an aspect that is too ingrained to be removed at this point.

      Conversely, I do think this is yet again another balance change where there is a goal (i.e. "lower the ceiling, raise the floor", "less APM-heavy end-game", "Iceheart is a 'strong' set and must be nerfed", "Thrassian Stranglers post- and pre-nerf", "make Frost DPS viable") that attempts it often in the wrong way and goes against the intention.

      For example, the initial preview of the Wall of Elements change was another sign of this, as I pointed out in this post here, which is one of my least favorite changes as it specifically hurts Frost Staff users for one of the overall most damaging abilities for any Magicka DPS over an encounter. I'm not saying that I'm an expert, but I've played all three roles enough in this game since BETA to have a decent idea of what would help or hurt these roles.

      I approve of the Minor Brittle addition (however, please listen to the community so that it is fixed to work only on the Frost Staff as apparently intended!), however I am also concerned that it would still limit group and trial compositions to just one dedicated user of it given its current implementation. It makes the Frost Staff itself viable for that content, but not so much the actual player(s) using it due to the redundancy.

      The Tri-Focus change was sorely necessary. I firmly believe the Taunt should be moved to Elemental Susceptibility, not Frost Clench. The Impulse change is "meh". I am still unlikely to use it.
    • With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?
      I will use it as I always have, and while these changes will help in some capacity, they will hurt in others, too.
    • What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?
      This person always has fair ideas and has been largely vocal on the topic. You might've seen a post or two of theirs around here or there.
    • Do you have any other general feedback?
      Listen to the feedback from your players and communicate with as many of those pain points directly, instead of pushing to Live not-fully-fleshed-out ideas which rarely change once announced in the first PTS cycle. I've seen this so many times over the years, which is where a lot of my frustration and skepticism comes comes from, justifiably. I used to offer a decent amount of PTS feedback in-game, and watched how it and literally 20+ threads detailing the same issues just go by "unnoticed" and have those problems manifest on Live. Not that I believe that posting this here will change matters at all.

    EDIT: Wanted to add "Iceheart" and "Thrassian Stranglers" as another source of inconsistent logic of what is balanced.
    Edited by Sedrethi on October 8, 2020 11:52PM
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  • LaerothKeykalyn
    LaerothKeykalyn
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    This is the official feedback thread for the Frost Staff changes. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:
    • What level/CP are you on Live?
    • What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?
    • If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?
    • What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?
    • With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?
    • What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?
    • Do you have any other general feedback?

    Thanks you very much ZOS.

    You killed my ice mage.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    I see alot of people complaining about the projectile shield Frost Staffs provide, personally I really like them. I think they will have a lot of applications in PVP especially given any changes that may occur to PVP after the Testing is concluded. They do see a little lack luster for PVE DPS, perhaps they need to provide more of a dps boon.

    the issue is they dedicated both morphs to this, when unstable wall of frost isn't suited towards utility. i think everyone is fine with one of the morphs having the projectile damage shield, but not both, because the frost wall was already the lowest dps of all 3. now the damage drop is just overkill and absolutely wasn't needed for unstable.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on October 8, 2020 12:57AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    1. Not completely a frost staff problem but "Ice of Storm" of destro ult is out of standarts.
    First of all its radius kept as 8m similar to its original skill. This is inconsistent coz 8m is radius of ranged/replacable expensive aoe ults like Standard or Nova while player-based aoe ults are 10m for example Sleet Storm. So radius of morph should be updated to 10meters.
    Secondly its auxiliary effect is noticable lower and as result you dont see anyone use this ult in PvP apart of bombers that trying to get mobile large burst ult. Like, Northern Storm vs Eye of Storm:
    compare-ults.png
    Understandable that class ults should be stronger but regarding destro ult - it require specific weapon choice, cost much more and while damage difference (3648vs4942) not that big it also loose auxiliary effects.
    It could at least compare to similar ult and get 1 more sec of uptime. or Similarly to other morph it could get special effects based on staff type.

    2. Problem with new Destruction Expert after it will be fixed is that if Tri-Focus wont be changed into proc on Bracing once per 10sec than DE wont be possible to reliably proc on anything but Wall of Frost because Frost Impulse doesnt apply damage shield and frost heavy attack is most clunky and slowest heavy attack, especially in pvp it wont be able to connect. So to make passive more reliable either Tri-Focus need to be changed to proc on Bracing or change it into channeled frost-beam heavy attack which is undodgeable similarly to lightning ha. We have example of such attack by Drodda of Icerach boss:
    frost-ha.jpg

    Tho if Tri-Focus wont loose manablock passive it will still be too bad to invest into passive.

    3. Again about Frost Impulse, since its effect has same radius as damage radius:
    A. I personally prefer to turn Frost Impulse buff into own efefct similarly to Frost Safeguard of Wall of Frost, especially since it will perform similarly to how it work now - it cant be stacked same as minor protection now or frost safeguard.
    B. Another idea is to make so it apply healing over time on allies in its range, similarly to Winter Respite set that shows that frost can abe associated with healing.


    A little off topic, but i feel like at this point, given the changes to major protection, northern storm needs to be changed too. What I'd do is target sleet storm at base, give it the 100% chilled proc and 4 extra seconds of duration, but make it lose major protection. With northern storm, it would gain the magicka percentage increase and would keep it's damage, and with permafrost, instead of being super wordy, i think it should gain the damage loss, better snare and major protection, this would help northern storm be more viable as a damage ultimate especially for double frost staff settups, and just in general in pvp, as well as keep permafrost as the utility option for healers that wish to use it

    Regardless, Destro Ult need same improvement like Impulse received. Idk how usefull permaroot in PvE but it doesnt sounds like you need such effect against mobs as healer or dps, while it definetly would be usefull for pvp morph. So, why not grant static frost ult another effect, like allies inside getting healed by snow or smth. While Eye of Storm could get additional affects based on element too and Eye of Frost would apply root on hitted enemies.
    Edited by Cinbri on October 8, 2020 12:09PM
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Cinbri wrote: »
    Cinbri wrote: »
    1. Not completely a frost staff problem but "Ice of Storm" of destro ult is out of standarts.
    First of all its radius kept as 8m similar to its original skill. This is inconsistent coz 8m is radius of ranged/replacable expensive aoe ults like Standard or Nova while player-based aoe ults are 10m for example Sleet Storm. So radius of morph should be updated to 10meters.
    Secondly its auxiliary effect is noticable lower and as result you dont see anyone use this ult in PvP apart of bombers that trying to get mobile large burst ult. Like, Northern Storm vs Eye of Storm:
    compare-ults.png
    Understandable that class ults should be stronger but regarding destro ult - it require specific weapon choice, cost much more and while damage difference (3648vs4942) not that big it also loose auxiliary effects.
    It could at least compare to similar ult and get 1 more sec of uptime. or Similarly to other morph it could get special effects based on staff type.

    2. Problem with new Destruction Expert after it will be fixed is that if Tri-Focus wont be changed into proc on Bracing once per 10sec than DE wont be possible to reliably proc on anything but Wall of Frost because Frost Impulse doesnt apply damage shield and frost heavy attack is most clunky and slowest heavy attack, especially in pvp it wont be able to connect. So to make passive more reliable either Tri-Focus need to be changed to proc on Bracing or change it into channeled frost-beam heavy attack which is undodgeable similarly to lightning ha. We have example of such attack by Drodda of Icerach boss:
    frost-ha.jpg

    Tho if Tri-Focus wont loose manablock passive it will still be too bad to invest into passive.

    3. Again about Frost Impulse, since its effect has same radius as damage radius:
    A. I personally prefer to turn Frost Impulse buff into own efefct similarly to Frost Safeguard of Wall of Frost, especially since it will perform similarly to how it work now - it cant be stacked same as minor protection now or frost safeguard.
    B. Another idea is to make so it apply healing over time on allies in its range, similarly to Winter Respite set that shows that frost can abe associated with healing.


    A little off topic, but i feel like at this point, given the changes to major protection, northern storm needs to be changed too. What I'd do is target sleet storm at base, give it the 100% chilled proc and 4 extra seconds of duration, but make it lose major protection. With northern storm, it would gain the magicka percentage increase and would keep it's damage, and with permafrost, instead of being super wordy, i think it should gain the damage loss, better snare and major protection, this would help northern storm be more viable as a damage ultimate especially for double frost staff settups, and just in general in pvp, as well as keep permafrost as the utility option for healers that wish to use it

    Regardless, Destro Ult need same improvement like Impulse received. Idk how usefull permaroot in PvE but it doesnt sounds like you need such effect against mobs as healer or dps, while it definetly would be usefull for pvp morph. So, why not grant static frost ult another effect, like allies inside getting healed by snow or smth. While Eye of Storm could get additional affects based on element too and Eye of Frost would apply root on hitted enemies.

    the root is garbage, it should probably just get lower cost or another damage effect, i can never see a tank using that ultimate unless it gives major brittle.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Cinbri wrote: »
    Cinbri wrote: »
    1. Not completely a frost staff problem but "Ice of Storm" of destro ult is out of standarts.
    First of all its radius kept as 8m similar to its original skill. This is inconsistent coz 8m is radius of ranged/replacable expensive aoe ults like Standard or Nova while player-based aoe ults are 10m for example Sleet Storm. So radius of morph should be updated to 10meters.
    Secondly its auxiliary effect is noticable lower and as result you dont see anyone use this ult in PvP apart of bombers that trying to get mobile large burst ult. Like, Northern Storm vs Eye of Storm:
    compare-ults.png
    Understandable that class ults should be stronger but regarding destro ult - it require specific weapon choice, cost much more and while damage difference (3648vs4942) not that big it also loose auxiliary effects.
    It could at least compare to similar ult and get 1 more sec of uptime. or Similarly to other morph it could get special effects based on staff type.

    2. Problem with new Destruction Expert after it will be fixed is that if Tri-Focus wont be changed into proc on Bracing once per 10sec than DE wont be possible to reliably proc on anything but Wall of Frost because Frost Impulse doesnt apply damage shield and frost heavy attack is most clunky and slowest heavy attack, especially in pvp it wont be able to connect. So to make passive more reliable either Tri-Focus need to be changed to proc on Bracing or change it into channeled frost-beam heavy attack which is undodgeable similarly to lightning ha. We have example of such attack by Drodda of Icerach boss:
    frost-ha.jpg

    Tho if Tri-Focus wont loose manablock passive it will still be too bad to invest into passive.

    3. Again about Frost Impulse, since its effect has same radius as damage radius:
    A. I personally prefer to turn Frost Impulse buff into own efefct similarly to Frost Safeguard of Wall of Frost, especially since it will perform similarly to how it work now - it cant be stacked same as minor protection now or frost safeguard.
    B. Another idea is to make so it apply healing over time on allies in its range, similarly to Winter Respite set that shows that frost can abe associated with healing.


    A little off topic, but i feel like at this point, given the changes to major protection, northern storm needs to be changed too. What I'd do is target sleet storm at base, give it the 100% chilled proc and 4 extra seconds of duration, but make it lose major protection. With northern storm, it would gain the magicka percentage increase and would keep it's damage, and with permafrost, instead of being super wordy, i think it should gain the damage loss, better snare and major protection, this would help northern storm be more viable as a damage ultimate especially for double frost staff settups, and just in general in pvp, as well as keep permafrost as the utility option for healers that wish to use it

    Regardless, Destro Ult need same improvement like Impulse received. Idk how usefull permaroot in PvE but it doesnt sounds like you need such effect against mobs as healer or dps, while it definetly would be usefull for pvp morph. So, why not grant static frost ult another effect, like allies inside getting healed by snow or smth. While Eye of Storm could get additional affects based on element too and Eye of Frost would apply root on hitted enemies.

    the root is garbage, it should probably just get lower cost or another damage effect, i can never see a tank using that ultimate unless it gives major brittle.

    Indeed, as zos stated there is no sources of Major Brittle now, so similarly to necro Colossus with its major vulnerability Frost ult instead of permaroot could get major brittle.
  • OlumoGarbag
    OlumoGarbag
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why is no one talking about the projectile shield on frost wall?

    Its not bad.. it doesent work at all! It literally doesent absorb any projectiles nor does it reduce projectile damage. It just gives you a visual for some seconds and thats it. (Tested on all destro staff projectiles and sorc)

    Is this intended or does it only work certain projectiles?
    Bc right now Frost wall does literally nothing except a very mediocre aoe dot.
    class representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling
  • buttaface
    buttaface
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    810+, use (used) frost staff tanking on several magicka heavy tank builds because it allowed a very nice and skillful type of resource management, being able to block on both bars while getting a unique ranged SKILL SLOT FREE taunt alternative. Allowed hybrid magicka tanks to add some damage to dps underperforming PUGs.

    Not at all interested in using a skill slot on cramped tank bars for ranged taunts when frost heavies did just fine while GIVING BACK RESOURCES at the same time instead of SPENDING THEM.

    Not at all interested in having the damage reduced, head-scratching nerf.

    Not at all interested in the removal of the snare, head-scratching nerf.

    Not at all interested in trivial group damage shields, head-scratching, unnecessary "buff."

    Not at all interested in trying to turn frost staff into a crit dmg booster ??.

    Won't be using frost staff in any capacity going forward once these "..." changes go live. Probably will just stop tanking, and since I do lots of pugging, and believe many out there who don't read forums much will be annoyed at the very least with these changes, get ready for more "fake tank" threads and complaints about the lack of tanks in the group finder.

    Perfect example of listening to a very vocal very minority of forum warriors. Was no need whatsoever to break what wasn't broken.

  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    buttaface wrote: »
    810+, use (used) frost staff tanking on several magicka heavy tank builds because it allowed a very nice and skillful type of resource management, being able to block on both bars while getting a unique ranged SKILL SLOT FREE taunt alternative. Allowed hybrid magicka tanks to add some damage to dps underperforming PUGs.

    Not at all interested in using a skill slot on cramped tank bars for ranged taunts when frost heavies did just fine while GIVING BACK RESOURCES at the same time instead of SPENDING THEM.

    Not at all interested in having the damage reduced, head-scratching nerf.

    Not at all interested in the removal of the snare, head-scratching nerf.

    Not at all interested in trivial group damage shields, head-scratching, unnecessary "buff."

    Not at all interested in trying to turn frost staff into a crit dmg booster ??.

    Won't be using frost staff in any capacity going forward once these "..." changes go live. Probably will just stop tanking, and since I do lots of pugging, and believe many out there who don't read forums much will be annoyed at the very least with these changes, get ready for more "fake tank" threads and complaints about the lack of tanks in the group finder.

    Perfect example of listening to a very vocal very minority of forum warriors. Was no need whatsoever to break what wasn't broken.

    well, it was an issue in several ways, it's just that the way they tried to fix it, involved throwing *** at the wall to see what sticked instead of listening to actual suggestions that thought about what would happen for more than 2 seconds. i have been saying for years to people saying "frost clench would make a good taunt" that it wouldn't be. and look what happened.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    buttaface wrote: »
    Not at all interested in using a skill slot on cramped tank bars for ranged taunts when frost heavies did just fine while GIVING BACK RESOURCES at the same time instead of SPENDING THEM.

    Uh...wut. Yeah, there were absolutely issues here. As a tank, going into a dungeon and having some DPS with no clue how the game works spamming heavies on a frost staff and overtaunting mobs is infuriating. It needed to go. Period. It was a terrible idea from the start.
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    buttaface wrote: »
    Not at all interested in using a skill slot on cramped tank bars for ranged taunts when frost heavies did just fine while GIVING BACK RESOURCES at the same time instead of SPENDING THEM.

    Uh...wut. Yeah, there were absolutely issues here. As a tank, going into a dungeon and having some DPS with no clue how the game works spamming heavies on a frost staff and overtaunting mobs is infuriating. It needed to go. Period. It was a terrible idea from the start.

    Frost heavy is definetly better than clench taunt for 3 main reasons. First, it is free while clench is costly. Second, better range. Last, it does not imm9blize targets. Let also not forget that there is inner rage taunt.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    buttaface wrote: »
    Not at all interested in using a skill slot on cramped tank bars for ranged taunts when frost heavies did just fine while GIVING BACK RESOURCES at the same time instead of SPENDING THEM.

    Uh...wut. Yeah, there were absolutely issues here. As a tank, going into a dungeon and having some DPS with no clue how the game works spamming heavies on a frost staff and overtaunting mobs is infuriating. It needed to go. Period. It was a terrible idea from the start.

    Frost heavy is definetly better than clench taunt for 3 main reasons. First, it is free while clench is costly. Second, better range. Last, it does not imm9blize targets. Let also not forget that there is inner rage taunt.

    while true, heavy attack taunting is still an awful idea that shouldn't return.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on October 12, 2020 6:53AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    buttaface wrote: »
    Not at all interested in using a skill slot on cramped tank bars for ranged taunts when frost heavies did just fine while GIVING BACK RESOURCES at the same time instead of SPENDING THEM.

    Uh...wut. Yeah, there were absolutely issues here. As a tank, going into a dungeon and having some DPS with no clue how the game works spamming heavies on a frost staff and overtaunting mobs is infuriating. It needed to go. Period. It was a terrible idea from the start.

    Frost heavy is definetly better than clench taunt for 3 main reasons. First, it is free while clench is costly. Second, better range. Last, it does not imm9blize targets. Let also not forget that there is inner rage taunt.

    I have no intention of using clench taunt. I have inner fire. Clench is a pointless, directionless change. If it guaranteed Chilled or something, maybe. As it stands, 100% trash. Doesn't mean the heavy attack taunt has any business returning.
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    The shield needs to be moved from heavy attack to block(for activation, give it the standard 6 sec cooldown).

    Frost clench doesnt need a taunt, or the range needs to be extended, as inner fire is just superior magicka taunt that everyone already uses.

    Ice wall doesnt need to do less damage, flame and shock wall already have good secondary effects.

  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    What level/CP are you on Live?
    810+
    What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?
    I play all Roles but I am specifically talking about tanking.
    If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?
    Hybrid Templar Tank.
    Ebon + Yolvakiin + Lord Warden.
    I have 41K hp and 23K stam and Magicka. Tri-stat everything Study and Triune.
    I do not have triforce passive locked as I want to use stamina to block.
    Elemental blockade is my only frost staff skill.
    What is your favourite and least favourite changes to Frost Staff?
    I like the debuff it gives. I don't like that I am losing the only AoE strong Snare/immobilise available to me as a Templar tank. Time Stop is too expensive and I need Stamina to Block and Silver Leash and don't want to use it on Caltrops (I have also not got enough Alliance levels to unlock it)
    With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?
    I will go back to using double Sword and Board.
    What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?
    I Would like to see an AoE immobilise for me to use as a Templar tank.
  • CaptainVenom
    CaptainVenom
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Loved the changes. I'll switch to Ice Staff for sure when Markarth hits live servers. However... I'm a little bit worried about Frost Clench and Taunt... it brings nothing really useful compared to Inner Fire, for example... where you have extra range and a synergy. I don't really see people using Frost Clench for taunting here.

    Adding a new effect could be a nice change... like area snaring for a better CC, or moving Taunt to Weakness to Elements to better match 1h & Shield's Puncture (taunt + reduce defense).
    🌈 Ride with Pride 🌈Magicka/Damage Necromancer - PC - NA - DC
  • xPoisin
    xPoisin
    ✭✭✭
    ouch, just ended reading the patch notes 6.0.3....

    Minor brittle --- OK, great, unique for frost staff... THANKS A LOT
    Damage is back --- great for DPS option... THANKS A LOT
    Wall of elements changes --- WHY ??? .... but OK, I can live with that....

    Changes to root/CC/immobilize/snare ---- NONE... NOTHING...
    --- after a lot of crying on the forums, these are not comming back, because the shields are what we missed all the time
    --- REALLY ???
    --- shields that are worth nothing and that do not work at all ???
    --- no snare/CC/root option for classes that do not have a class ability for that...

    Please consider the changes again, you did steps in right direction with the actual changes (at least for DPS) but you are still ignoring the most common use of frost staff as a root/snare/immobilize with wall of elements....
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