PTS Update 28 - Feedback Thread for Frost Staff Adjustments

Olupajmibanan

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, it would appear that minor brittle's application is bugged in at least 2 ways that I've personally tested, I'll start with the most severe bug

1: I'll read off the zos official statement before continuing:

Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.

This unfortunately for frostdens, does not appear to be the case as you can apply chilled and brittle from other active weapons, it's been tested here with the flame staff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66mR5j1MzVA

additional information about this video, I only had a berserk glyph on the frost wall bar, and thus the only application of the brittle was from frost wall's tick itself.

This bug needs to be fixed before the changes go live.

2: elemental weapon does not apply brittle from it's chilled proc even when actively holding a frost staff. Try it for yourselves, it does not apply brittle. (additionally but not overly important, elemental weapon's tooltip says it applies the "Chill" status effect, not the "Chilled" status effect)

Applying chilled with Concentrated Force set does not work too. Each second cast of Force Shock made within 2 seconds of each other with Asylum Ice staff should proc Minor Brittle, however, it doesn't.

ESO_Nightingale

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, it would appear that minor brittle's application is bugged in at least 2 ways that I've personally tested, I'll start with the most severe bug

1: I'll read off the zos official statement before continuing:

Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.

This unfortunately for frostdens, does not appear to be the case as you can apply chilled and brittle from other active weapons, it's been tested here with the flame staff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66mR5j1MzVA

additional information about this video, I only had a berserk glyph on the frost wall bar, and thus the only application of the brittle was from frost wall's tick itself.

This bug needs to be fixed before the changes go live.

2: elemental weapon does not apply brittle from it's chilled proc even when actively holding a frost staff. Try it for yourselves, it does not apply brittle. (additionally but not overly important, elemental weapon's tooltip says it applies the "Chill" status effect, not the "Chilled" status effect)

Applying chilled with Concentrated Force set does not work too. Each second cast of Force Shock made within 2 seconds of each other with Asylum Ice staff should proc Minor Brittle, however, it doesn't.

thanks man! i edited the post

richo262

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

ESO_Nightingale

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

llBlack_Heartll

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

@ESO_Nightingale - They just need to move it all to One Hand and Shield, rework 1 skill and work on the Frost Staff and passive for DPS.

Passive - Fortress - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Reduces the cost of One Hand and Shield abilities by 15% and reduces the cost of blocking by 36%
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Reduce the cost of blocking by 36% and the amount blocked by 20%.

Passive - Deflect Bolts - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Increases the amount of damage you can block from projectiles and ranged attacks by 14%.
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Blocking cost Magicka instead of Stamina.

WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Power Bash - Morph - Power Slam - Bash the Air full-force with your shield creating powerful winds, dealing xxx Physical Damage to all enemies in the target area every 1 sec (AOE 10s)
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Bash the Ground with the full force of your staff to create an elemental barrier in front of you, dealing xxx Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second. Fire staff deals fire damage, lightning staff deals lightning damage and frost deals frost damage.

ESO_Nightingale

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

@ESO_Nightingale - They just need to move it all to One Hand and Shield, rework 1 skill and work on the Frost Staff and passive for DPS.

Passive - Fortress - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Reduces the cost of One Hand and Shield abilities by 15% and reduces the cost of blocking by 36%
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Reduce the cost of blocking by 36% and the amount blocked by 20%.

Passive - Deflect Bolts - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Increases the amount of damage you can block from projectiles and ranged attacks by 14%.
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Blocking cost Magicka instead of Stamina.

WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Power Bash - Morph - Power Slam - Bash the Air full-force with your shield creating powerful winds, dealing xxx Physical Damage to all enemies in the target area every 1 sec (AOE 10s)
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Bash the Ground with the full force of your staff to create an elemental barrier in front of you, dealing xxx Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second. Fire staff deals fire damage, lightning staff deals lightning damage and frost deals frost damage.

sounds bizarre since it's in 1 handed and shield but then not 1 handed and shield. but i understand the sentiment.

llBlack_Heartll

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

@ESO_Nightingale - They just need to move it all to One Hand and Shield, rework 1 skill and work on the Frost Staff and passive for DPS.

Passive - Fortress - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Reduces the cost of One Hand and Shield abilities by 15% and reduces the cost of blocking by 36%
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Reduce the cost of blocking by 36% and the amount blocked by 20%.

Passive - Deflect Bolts - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Increases the amount of damage you can block from projectiles and ranged attacks by 14%.
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Blocking cost Magicka instead of Stamina.

WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Power Bash - Morph - Power Slam - Bash the Air full-force with your shield creating powerful winds, dealing xxx Physical Damage to all enemies in the target area every 1 sec (AOE 10s)
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Bash the Ground with the full force of your staff to create an elemental barrier in front of you, dealing xxx Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second. Fire staff deals fire damage, lightning staff deals lightning damage and frost deals frost damage.

sounds bizarre since it's in 1 handed and shield but then not 1 handed and shield. but i understand the sentiment.

Same could be said about the Destruction Staff skill line, with Support and non DSP passive/skills imbedded in it, that are not destructive.

Firstmep

I do not agree with the changes to frost staff.

Frost clench doesnt need to be a taunt, we already have a ranged magcika taunt with a built in synergy and better range.

The shield provided on the heavy attack is also kinda bad. Destruction staff heavy attacks are too slow, and in pvp using it to get a 12.5% max hp shield is just not viable. Do you guys not remember when you tried to add cast times to shield? This is the same concept.
Make the frost heavy attack restore a smaller amount from the offstat, that would actually be useful for tanks/magicka bruisers.

Also the nerf to minor maim makes frost staff even less useful as frost wall was one of the only ways for some classes to get aoe minor maim, and this just makes is that much less useful.

Also the nerf to minor vulnurability is going to hurt lightning staves, basicall both chilled and concussed are very weak debuffs now , at least frost staff gets brittle, can we get something for lightning as well to compensate?
Maybe a small aoe explosion when we apply concussed to a target.

emilyhyoyeon

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

I know you're not the one who heard this so I guess this is kind of rhetorical, but if they're removing the magicka block cost thing for frost staff, literally what is the point of it being a magicka tank weapon if it's not magicka based for blocking? xd am I stupid or am I missing something?

capt_pierce

What level/CP are you on Live?
CP level: 716

What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?
Tank, healer, & dps

If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?
Frost staff on Necro tank with damage mitigation, leeching plate and absorbtion shields.

What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?
I like how the frost staff adds a shield now, but I still feel like it doesn't compete with the other weapons/taunt skills.

With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?
No, the frost staff is already lacking compared to other weapons/abilities for tanking.

What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?
I think if you want to set apart the frost staff and make people want to use it over other weapons for tanking you should incorporate an AoE taunt for it. For example Elemental Ring on frost staff would now taunt all enemies it hits. I believe this would bring more tanks to the already limited number of tanks in the game.

Do you have any other general feedback?
Add an AoE taunt and more reasons to use the frost staff for tanking over other weapons/abilities.

ESO_Nightingale

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

I know you're not the one who heard this so I guess this is kind of rhetorical, but if they're removing the magicka block cost thing for frost staff, literally what is the point of it being a magicka tank weapon if it's not magicka based for blocking? xd am I stupid or am I missing something?

The point of a magicka tanking staff is utility.

emilyhyoyeon

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

I know you're not the one who heard this so I guess this is kind of rhetorical, but if they're removing the magicka block cost thing for frost staff, literally what is the point of it being a magicka tank weapon if it's not magicka based for blocking? xd am I stupid or am I missing something?

The point of a magicka tanking staff is utility.

I'm not wondering what the general point of a magicka tanking staff is. I'm talking about specific theme of what we've got here.

I'm wondering what ZOS's vision for the weapon is. What the point of frost staff being a magicka tanking weapon is if you don't tank with magicka. If they want it to be a magicka tanking weapon then making its blocking cost stamina instead of magicka is thematically nonsensical.

Game mechs-wise I actually play a magicka oriented tank and the change just hurts me for no reason but anyway, why is it so difficult to follow their vision for the weapon? Because it's weak and inconsistent. That's my point.

ESO_Nightingale

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

I know you're not the one who heard this so I guess this is kind of rhetorical, but if they're removing the magicka block cost thing for frost staff, literally what is the point of it being a magicka tank weapon if it's not magicka based for blocking? xd am I stupid or am I missing something?

The point of a magicka tanking staff is utility.

I'm not wondering what the general point of a magicka tanking staff is. I'm talking about specific theme of what we've got here.

I'm wondering what ZOS's vision for the weapon is. What the point of frost staff being a magicka tanking weapon is if you don't tank with magicka. If they want it to be a magicka tanking weapon then making its blocking cost stamina instead of magicka is thematically nonsensical.

Game mechs-wise I actually play a magicka oriented tank and the change just hurts me for no reason but anyway, why is it so difficult to follow their vision for the weapon? Because it's weak and inconsistent. That's my point.

Yeah it's still really poorly implemented. I wish they had good ideas (that they discussed and bounced back and forth with players) before they implemented them. Not sure why they're so adverse to it. At the end of the day, we are the ones who suffer with changes that no-one seemingly gave 2 thoughts about.

JohnnieKBaller

I was thinking about the frost staff randomly today, and decided to come back to this post. I know a lot of you are much smarter than I am, so maybe you can shed some light on this for me, but here's my thought process/questions:

Why was the frost staff chosen as the "tank" staff? The properties of this destruction staff make targets brittle... seems more in line with a dps theory. Also, if it's so magicka based tanks can regen their resource pool, why wouldn't it be a channeled staff, since they're the most likely/first to be interrupted/stunned? Resto staves give back the most magicka and are channeled. They already have their own category that falls in line with support abilities... so why weren't they given the "tanking" role? It seems asinine to take a destruction staff and make it a tanking staff, especially with the cast time for a heavy attack and the properties associated with frost.

I'm a day one player (console) and always wanted to make a frost mage, but no classes lent themselves to this endeavor. Then Warden comes out, which has actual frost abilities, but they try to force it into being a tank. I'm happy to read about the changes to come and the feedback provided by you on the PTS, but it seems so backwards from what ESO has always sold themselves as; "play any character the way you want to," and yet we're asked to do so with a hand tied behind our backs.

Also, tanks... the staves are depicted as always being utilized with one hand (NOT asking for them to change the animations) but if a staff is going to be dedicated to the endeavors of tanking, why not make that particular staff a one-handed staff so that a shield can be held too? Or maybe an ability/animation that allows you to create a hand-held shield? At least then it'd take advantage of the whole "frost is tank" nonsense that's being pushed.

I don't know, it just doesn't feel well thought out or taken advantage of. Cool, you want to make the frost staff a tanking staff, but give it some justice by going all-in, meaning, give it it's own skill line altogether. Remove it from destro, and give it some attention so that it doesn't feel like an afterthought.

I'm probably alone in this, but hey, that's just my opinion, but don't half-ass the concept of staff tanking, whole-ass it. That's all I'm asking for.

AcadianPaladin

I'd like to see the frost staff join the other two destro staffs as 'all about dps.'

We have a totally separate Restoration staff with its own skill line to support healers.

I'd propose a totally separate Defender staff with its own skill line to support tanks.

Araneae6537

Oh, cool! I’m glad to hear that taunt is being removed from frost staff! I like to use it for DPS on my magden — fits with the ice theme! I always have to assure people that I didn’t take the passive that gives it a taunt (not that I blame anyone for checking of course).

Tivnael

What level/CP are you on Live?
810 Cp Warden

What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?

DPS, mostly in PvP CP and NoCP

If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?

I play a pure Frost Warden with Masters Frost Staff and Droddas Frost Staff of Ice Furnace.
I use Frost Reach and Wall of Frost. And of course most of Wardens Frost abilities

What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?

Thank you for paying more attention to Frost Staff and its abilities. I think Frost staff is fun because of Wall of Frost immobilization, which gives a nice role-play-like feeling if you are able to connstantly apply chilled to all of your enemies.
Also, i like the idea of Frost Staff providing shields and resistances. So, i really appreciate the idea to make heavy attacks a more viable option for frost playstyle also in pvp.
Also, minor brittle debuff fits well into the idea to be a supporter to the team but also a strong opponent, if you really use a lot of frost dmg.
In my opinion, weakening Wall of frost further is a bad idea, because frost staff users already do around 8% less damage and lack a weapon skill line stun, without getting any significant strength through frost staves.
Always to be supportive but also very weak , isn`t that much fun.

With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?

I will be able to integrate heavy attacks into my rotation, which is very nice because they synergize with cliff racer`s -off-balance procc!
The shield, that wall of frost will provide is maybe nice, but not very likely to change the play style, maybe a nice addition (but also somehow strange, it should rather be a normal shield against any attacks and not ranged, because it is an ability especially useful against melees).

What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?

Frost reach should get some additional effect, for instance a higher chance to proc chilled,or the ability to proc wewapon enchantments with its DoT-part again. Atm, it only does the standard single target DoT, but does not provide a unique feature to the morph (compared to any DoT in the game, its very weak and boring).
Wall of frost should not be weaker than it already is, especially the root makes it very unique and somehow "class defining" for Frost-playstyle. Also, the "unstable" morph is very weak. An idea would be, to increase the size of unstable wall of frost to 18x12m, but not providing the new shield. So it would be a more offensive morph, and the other one more defensive.

Further, as Minor Maim (and also Minor Vulnerability) is heavily decreased, Frost damage will be much less rewarding in pvp. This should be considered, maybe by increasing damage blocked with frost staffs or block-cost reduction.

Do you have any other general feedback?

With weakening many buffs in the markarth-update, classes that especially rely on many buffs and debuffs that were weakened (like warden) will take a huge hit. Some abilities should be adapted, e.g. Permafrost and Northern Storm.

josiahva

I mainly tank, and this is how I see the taunt change in particular

The frost staff changes...while great for DPS, do absolutely nothing for tanking. Its fine if you want to give DPS their frsot staff back....but there is literally no reason for me to use a frost staff to taunt anymore instead of inner fire. Before...it was a free taunt that restored magicka and gave a small shield....it was slow and clunky, but situationally useful...now its garbage, not only does it cost magicka...it doesnt do the job as well as inner fire and forces me to slot a skill unlike the heavy attack...a skill that I would never choose to slot as a tank anyway.

Before:

Heavy attack taunt
Pros:
Free taunt
Requires no skill slot
Restores Magicka
Provides small Shield
Cons:
Slow and clunky

Now:
Destructive Clench taunt
Pros:
Fast
Cons:
Requires a skill slot
Costs resources(magicka to cast, unlike heavy attack taunt)
Frost clench immobilizes and enemy...this is NOT an advantage...you have a melee enemy you are trying to draw into an AOE....and he is 15 meters away, you "taunt" him and he freezes....this SLOWS DOWN THE DPS, because now someone has to go around and clean up immobilized(but taunted) enemies.
Does not restore any resources(unlike the heavy attack)
Does not provide a synergy like inner fire does(true, that was a mostly worhtless synergy, but all synergies restore rss to those who need them)

There is literally zero reason for tanks to use this taunt...doing so would be WORSE than using inner fire...at least inner fire isnt going to stop melee enemies from getting closer to you, and it provides a synergy...for the same magicka cost.

If these changes go through, I may still occasionally backbar an ice staff...but I will never again use its taunt. The utility of Ice staff for tanks would be reduced strictly to using magicka to block and wall of elements morph that gives a damage shield and chills enemies for the brittle buff....so there is an improvement in that respect...but the taunt is garbage now.

Joy_Division

One of the most annoying mechanics that is contradictory to ZOS's stated goal of having staffs as a DPS weapon and a tank weapon is the Tri Focus passive that bunches together the damage increase passive and the tank passive that makes magicka a blocking resource.

What if I want to use a frost staff as a back bar to "tank" but a lightning staff on front bat for "damage" and the normal game mechanic of stamina for blocking? Basically I'm SOL.

Please separate damage and tank passives as they tend to be contradictory in the game's mechanics. Trying to make a Frost staff a "tank" weapon weapon while simultaneously having staff passives that are supposed to add DPS is a paradoxical exercise.

josiahva

Joy_Division wrote: »

One of the most annoying mechanics that is contradictory to ZOS's stated goal of having staffs as a DPS weapon and a tank weapon is the Tri Focus passive that bunches together the damage increase passive and the tank passive that makes magicka a blocking resource.

What if I want to use a frost staff as a back bar to "tank" but a lightning staff on front bat for "damage" and the normal game mechanic of stamina for blocking? Basically I'm SOL.

Please separate damage and tank passives as they tend to be contradictory in the game's mechanics. Trying to make a Frost staff a "tank" weapon weapon while simultaneously having staff passives that are supposed to add DPS is a paradoxical exercise.

One of the things they did RIGHT for frost staff was make the blocking resource magicka. This allows you to swap weapons to swap the blocking resource, increasing sustain. And no, it should NOT default to the highest max resource....maybe to the CURRENT higher resource. As it stands on live you can stamina block with a lightning staff and magicka block with an ice staff...this is how it should be. I currently swap between S&B and Ice Staff(when I need to equip an ice staff) to manage sustain for fights its necessary(such as the last boss fight of vDSA where the tank gets no group support at all for 75% of the fight and you need to regen stam or magicka while blocking with the other resource)

I do agree with the general sentiment though that magicka tanking needs its own weapon....trying to combine tanking and DPS on 1 weapon is a terrible idea and always has been. It makes both half as strong as they are on dedicated weapon lines. People have been asking for an alteration staff for tanking for a long time...and I agree(not necessarily an alteration staff, but some type of magicka weapon designed completely with tanking in mind, then they can focus the ice staff 100% on DPS)

ealdwin

What level/CP are you on Live?
812 CP

What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?
PVE - Healer
PVP - DPS

If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?
Do not currently use Frost Staff abilities, but would like to for DPS.

What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?
Favourite:
- Removing the taunt from Tri-Focus

Least Favourite:
- Decreasing the DPS of Wall of Elements for Frost Staves

With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?
Not really. None of the changes seem enticing as a healer for PVE. In PVP, the changes still don't seem enticing to make it worth slotting over other weapons.

What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?
If Frost Staves must taunt, put the taunt on Elemental Susceptibility, not on Clench.

Do you have any other general feedback?
In previous TES games, frost magic was a potent source of damage against pure warriors, slowing them down, draining their stamina. It would be nice to see Frost Damage fulfill a slightly similar role for PVP, helping provide magicka specs with slows, and roots, and immobilizations. Perhaps an AoE immobilization on Impulse? I don't know, just spitballing here.

llBlack_Heartll

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

@ESO_Nightingale - They just need to move it all to One Hand and Shield, rework 1 skill and work on the Frost Staff and passive for DPS.

Passive - Fortress - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Reduces the cost of One Hand and Shield abilities by 15% and reduces the cost of blocking by 36%
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Reduce the cost of blocking by 36% and the amount blocked by 20%.

Passive - Deflect Bolts - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Increases the amount of damage you can block from projectiles and ranged attacks by 14%.
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Blocking cost Magicka instead of Stamina.

WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Power Bash - Morph - Power Slam - Bash the Air full-force with your shield creating powerful winds, dealing xxx Physical Damage to all enemies in the target area every 1 sec (AOE 10s)
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Bash the Ground with the full force of your staff to create an elemental barrier in front of you, dealing xxx Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second. Fire staff deals fire damage, lightning staff deals lightning damage and frost deals frost damage.

sounds bizarre since it's in 1 handed and shield but then not 1 handed and shield. but i understand the sentiment.

@ESO_Nightingale

In all honesty, the more I think about this. All ZOS need to do is change 1 skill -
Change Power Bash to an AOE Skill as mentioned about.
WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Power Bash - Morph - Power Slam - Bash the Air full-force with your shield creating powerful winds, dealing xxx Physical Damage to all enemies in the target area every 1 sec (AOE 10s)
And add to the skill - While slotted blocking cost magic instead of stamina.

The passives don't need to be changed because the 36% Blocking cost still will be covered by Fortress Passive and the amount blocked by 20% is covered by the Sword & Board Passive.
The AOE Skill can now proc the Crusher Enchant.

Cinbri

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

Would be nice if manablock would be removed at least from Tri-Focus passive so can actually invest into this passive no matter what content playing. And change frost Tri-Focus to work similarly to Reinforced CP (When activating block gain a damage shield for [x] every 10 seconds) or Psijic Concentrated Barrier (.... and are Bracing, you gain a damage shield that absorbs 5000 damage. This damage shield recharges back to full strength you spend 10 seconds not Bracing), i.e. when you press Bracing - get your damage shield.

Larian

What level/CP are you on Live?

Level 50 CP 602 Pc EU

What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?

started with dps and switched to Healer

If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?

i dont use a Froststaff because its not interesting enough

What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?

i like the damage shield, it looks very cool, the new buff sounds interesting too

With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?

if we keep the damage shield and can proc the brittle debuff with the froststaff on the backbar like we would do with a glyph then yes i would change from lightning to Froststaff. Applying Brittle holding a froststaff is useless because i need to heal my group.

What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?


....

Do you have any other general feedback?

vgabor

Week 3 patch, no new updates on frost staff changes so apparently all feedback was just ignored... not that I'm much surprised considering past PTS cycles...

Firstmep

Cinbri wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

I'd like to see Tri-Focus have this addition

'While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina if your Max Magicka is higher than your Max Stamina'

Most sword and board tank have more stamina and don't appreciate their magicka being drained. However, I'm sure Mage Tanks would prefer their Magicka being the source of blocking as they have much more than they have stamina.

This just allows for people to easier swap their DK Tanks into mDK dps with just an attribute and CP change, rather than removing that passive each time they want to tank.

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not entirely sure how accurate of information this is but i did hear it from nefas on one of his streams, but apparently they're going to be removing the mag block cost sometime within markarth's incrementals, or q1 next year. this would be a very nice change.

Would be nice if manablock would be removed at least from Tri-Focus passive so can actually invest into this passive no matter what content playing. And change frost Tri-Focus to work similarly to Reinforced CP (When activating block gain a damage shield for [x] every 10 seconds) or Psijic Concentrated Barrier (.... and are Bracing, you gain a damage shield that absorbs 5000 damage. This damage shield recharges back to full strength you spend 10 seconds not Bracing), i.e. when you press Bracing - get your damage shield.

Yes i have left the same feedback. THe shield on a fully charged heavy attack is about as worthless as it gets, especially on a frost staff.
Since its supposed to be the blocking weapon type for magicka, lets make the shield proc from block as well.
Suddenly we could start seeing builds other than magsorc that utilise damage shields once more.

Fennwitty

• What level/CP are you on Live?

CP 544

• What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?

Tank main, starting to get into DPS.

• If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?

1-h/Staff builds.

For group my Necro/Warden magicka tanks use frost staff for extra crowd control (snare/immobilize) and for Crushing Shock ranged interrupt.

I like magicka-as-blocking option to help manage resources, so I can switch bars between 1-h and staff if one pool's getting low.

Solo, my tanks use frost staff for *some extra DPS* vs. 1-h and shield. I'm still a tank so crits are rare, and I doubt Brittle will make up for it, especially if I can't apply it from back bar. If Frost staff Wall of Elements damage goes down I'll just carry a different destruction staff for solo questing. Though for the Warden I might lose out on the +Frost damage passive, will need to parse.

With my Dragon Knight, I don't use Frost Staff because I see no benefit. I have absolutely no need for extra damage shields or immobilize with this character.

I never use the current ranged taunt heavy attack passive. I prefer Undaunted Inner Fire (instant cast). The damage shield takes too long for too short a benefit. I'm fine with the 1-h damage shields, have backup Undaunted damage shield if needed, and otherwise I'm confident in my self heals and damage mitigation.

• What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?

1. Moving the Frost Staff taunt out of Tri-Focus passive is the best change. I don't believe Frost Clench is a good place for it though.
   
2. Least favorite change is the damage reduction for both morphs of Wall of Elements. I don't see a reason both morphs need reduced damage on a 'destruction staff'. I'm pretty sure frost was already the lowest performing staff anyway.

• With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?

1. Thinking from a healer perspective, extra damage shields for the team *might* be interesting vs. healhealheal.
   
   
2. But from a tank/dps perspective, I wouldn't use *any* of the new features unless the community deems Brittle "required" for trials. The damage shields on myself are excessive and turn me into a force-field battery. If I don't already use a Frost Staff as a magicka tank to begin with and needed to help group survivability for a specific trial, I'll still go ahead and slot a heal or some other damage shield ability without sacrificing the entire weapon bar.
   
   
3. For my magicka tanks, I would coincidentally be casting a bunch of damage shields but on autopilot. I have to keep aggro and manage crowd control first. I'd caution party members not to get too used to the tank's damage shields -- lots of bosses will be hitting tanks with status effects or require special positioning in the fight anyway.

Destructive Clench:
I'd *never* slot Destructive Clench Frost Staff even with an added Taunt because ...

1: If I'm taunting something I want it next to me, not stuck 15 meters away for any amount of time

2: If I want to range taunt in a fight I'll using Inner Fire with a superior distance and secondary effect

3: If I want to taunt something already next to me, I'd use 1-h Pierce Armor for the extra debuff.

4: If I ever wanted to immobilize a single enemy in PvE -- it's probably a boss so immune to crowd control anyway. No consistent value "immobilizing" one "trash" enemy for ~2 seconds in PvE. The only possible use is for PvP, but the range is still mediocre, and Taunt doesn't do much there.

Back to the changes generally:
5: For Tank perspective, the damage shields are excessive. It turns the tank into a damage shield battery. If I'm tank, I don't think I signed up to keep everyone alive by "healing" them up front with continual damage shields. I'd prefer keeping the group alive by managing aggro and crowd control.

6: If the damage shields aren't applied and managed primarily by the Healers, it'll be a surprise "everyone loses 5k effective hp" when the Tank or DPS with a Frost Staff miss an application.

7: If I'm DPS, why would I spend any time putting damage shields on other people vs. a stronger one on myself? Or doing damage.

• What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?

1. I'd greatly prefer if Destruction Staff Frost Staff morphs supported both a "support/tank" morph and a "regular DPS" morph.
   
   
2. I really want the option to do frost damage and be able to get some DPS utilizing my class abilities (Warden). And would love to have a third DPS destruction staff option in the game -- right now Magicka DPS have either Inferno Staff/Lightning Staff or Inferno/Restoration.

• Do you have any other general feedback?

1. Frost Clench Taunt with 15m range is a newbie trap. At best, low level characters have something to taunt with before getting level 3 Undaunted. At worst, newbies would think it was useful to have individual enemies stand still for 2 seconds.
   
   
2. If I join a Pick-Up-Group as DPS or healer and the tank is over CP160 still using Frost Clench as their main taunt, I'd honestly get a little nervous.
   
   
3. Similarly if I join a Pick-Up-Group and the tank is doing great at putting up damage shields -- but *isn't* applying debuffs or managing aggro -- that's going to make long and boring fights.
   
   
4. I have to say it's much more reasonable to put the Destruction Staff Taunt on Elemental Susceptibility, changing it to 15 seconds, even if only for Frost Staff. That gives it almost the same function as Pierce Armor, but slightly weaker since Pierce Armor is being boosted to also apply Minor Breach. Can swap it with Destructive Touch, I doubt many people use Destructive Touch at all to begin with.
   
   
5. Outside of Healers, or very specific trials, I still see no new reason to use Frost Staff for either Tanking or DPS with these changes as they are. If damage shields are wanted as a support option, why not use the Restoration Staff or make sure every class has at least one group damage shield?

TankHealz2015

Fennwitty wrote: »

• What level/CP are you on Live?

CP 544

• What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?

Tank main, starting to get into DPS.

• If you currently use Frost Staff abilities, what kind of builds do you use?

1-h/Staff builds.

For group my Necro/Warden magicka tanks use frost staff for extra crowd control (snare/immobilize) and for Crushing Shock ranged interrupt.

I like magicka-as-blocking option to help manage resources, so I can switch bars between 1-h and staff if one pool's getting low.

Solo, my tanks use frost staff for *some extra DPS* vs. 1-h and shield. I'm still a tank so crits are rare, and I doubt Brittle will make up for it, especially if I can't apply it from back bar. If Frost staff Wall of Elements damage goes down I'll just carry a different destruction staff for solo questing. Though for the Warden I might lose out on the +Frost damage passive, will need to parse.

With my Dragon Knight, I don't use Frost Staff because I see no benefit. I have absolutely no need for extra damage shields or immobilize with this character.

I never use the current ranged taunt heavy attack passive. I prefer Undaunted Inner Fire (instant cast). The damage shield takes too long for too short a benefit. I'm fine with the 1-h damage shields, have backup Undaunted damage shield if needed, and otherwise I'm confident in my self heals and damage mitigation.

• What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?

1. Moving the Frost Staff taunt out of Tri-Focus passive is the best change. I don't believe Frost Clench is a good place for it though.
   
2. Least favorite change is the damage reduction for both morphs of Wall of Elements. I don't see a reason both morphs need reduced damage on a 'destruction staff'. I'm pretty sure frost was already the lowest performing staff anyway.

• With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?

1. Thinking from a healer perspective, extra damage shields for the team *might* be interesting vs. healhealheal.
   
   
2. But from a tank/dps perspective, I wouldn't use *any* of the new features unless the community deems Brittle "required" for trials. The damage shields on myself are excessive and turn me into a force-field battery. If I don't already use a Frost Staff as a magicka tank to begin with and needed to help group survivability for a specific trial, I'll still go ahead and slot a heal or some other damage shield ability without sacrificing the entire weapon bar.
   
   
3. For my magicka tanks, I would coincidentally be casting a bunch of damage shields but on autopilot. I have to keep aggro and manage crowd control first. I'd caution party members not to get too used to the tank's damage shields -- lots of bosses will be hitting tanks with status effects or require special positioning in the fight anyway.

Destructive Clench:
I'd *never* slot Destructive Clench Frost Staff even with an added Taunt because ...

1: If I'm taunting something I want it next to me, not stuck 15 meters away for any amount of time

2: If I want to range taunt in a fight I'll using Inner Fire with a superior distance and secondary effect

3: If I want to taunt something already next to me, I'd use 1-h Pierce Armor for the extra debuff.

4: If I ever wanted to immobilize a single enemy in PvE -- it's probably a boss so immune to crowd control anyway. No consistent value "immobilizing" one "trash" enemy for ~2 seconds in PvE. The only possible use is for PvP, but the range is still mediocre, and Taunt doesn't do much there.

Back to the changes generally:
5: For Tank perspective, the damage shields are excessive. It turns the tank into a damage shield battery. If I'm tank, I don't think I signed up to keep everyone alive by "healing" them up front with continual damage shields. I'd prefer keeping the group alive by managing aggro and crowd control.

6: If the damage shields aren't applied and managed primarily by the Healers, it'll be a surprise "everyone loses 5k effective hp" when the Tank or DPS with a Frost Staff miss an application.

7: If I'm DPS, why would I spend any time putting damage shields on other people vs. a stronger one on myself? Or doing damage.

• What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?

1. I'd greatly prefer if Destruction Staff Frost Staff morphs supported both a "support/tank" morph and a "regular DPS" morph.
   
   
2. I really want the option to do frost damage and be able to get some DPS utilizing my class abilities (Warden). And would love to have a third DPS destruction staff option in the game -- right now Magicka DPS have either Inferno Staff/Lightning Staff or Inferno/Restoration.

• Do you have any other general feedback?

1. Frost Clench Taunt with 15m range is a newbie trap. At best, low level characters have something to taunt with before getting level 3 Undaunted. At worst, newbies would think it was useful to have individual enemies stand still for 2 seconds.
   
   
2. If I join a Pick-Up-Group as DPS or healer and the tank is over CP160 still using Frost Clench as their main taunt, I'd honestly get a little nervous.
   
   
3. Similarly if I join a Pick-Up-Group and the tank is doing great at putting up damage shields -- but *isn't* applying debuffs or managing aggro -- that's going to make long and boring fights.
   
   
4. I have to say it's much more reasonable to put the Destruction Staff Taunt on Elemental Susceptibility, changing it to 15 seconds, even if only for Frost Staff. That gives it almost the same function as Pierce Armor, but slightly weaker since Pierce Armor is being boosted to also apply Minor Breach. Can swap it with Destructive Touch, I doubt many people use Destructive Touch at all to begin with.
   
   
5. Outside of Healers, or very specific trials, I still see no new reason to use Frost Staff for either Tanking or DPS with these changes as they are. If damage shields are wanted as a support option, why not use the Restoration Staff or make sure every class has at least one group damage shield?

100% best assessment.
Thank you.

FoolishOptimist

Does anyone have a video of the wall of frost shield in action?

Cinbri

Frost Impulse needs change to its auxiliar effect as it only effect that is not unique and conflicting with classes.
Frost Impulse - unique execute, Shock Impulse - unique anti-zerg effect, yet Frost Impulse - is just minor buff that we already have, nothing unique about it.
As result it conflicting with classes that have no alternatives for their toolkits: for example if magblade will slot it - it will be obviosuly weapon choice of brawlerblade which by default will use healing morph of Cloak that grant protection by itself, so he wont benefit from frost version of skill. Or even worse - templar dps build which is most common is Jab-spamming wont beenfit nor himself nor if healer or tank will use frost impulse because he has minor protection as his passive and he has no alternative to this passive.
So, either Frost Impulse need change its minor prot for unique bonus, for example just change it into 5% mitigation buff that attached to Impusle and called fancy like "Frost Guard" literally exactly how damage shield of Wall of Frost is acting; or we need to swap minor prot buff from classes that have no alternatives, for example change templar Spear Wall from minor protection into generic 5% reduction to stop this conflict.