YandereGirlfriend wrote: »@Aznarb You can't rely on Chilled alone to proc your Minor Maim since that's putting yourself at the mercy of RNG and will result in up-times lower than simply using Heroic Slash. You're also missing out on Minor Heroism (and Minor Breach when the patch hits) compared to using traditional Sword and Board. Why would you want Frost Staff tanks to have these obvious weaknesses?
@Onefrkncrzypope You miss the point of the Frost Staff changes. Frost Staff DPS users (and Shock Staff users) want to be able to use something other than a Flame Staff to DPS with. Simply punting Brittle to the Support roles completely undermines the purpose of the changes and reinforces the status quo of Flame Staff supremacy.
CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »Magicka tanking is a fun idea, but awful in practice. Magicka block still costs a lot more than stamina block, and block cost reduction glyphs still did not apply last time I looked. Even being able to regenerate magicka while blocking does not offset this cost, which is why you don't see full magicka tanks running vet trials on leaderboards.
Seriously??? No wonder staff tanking is so unpopular.
Umm -- does Sturdy at least work? And CP?
AFAIK no. All of that "block cost reduction" applies to STAMINA block, not magicka. I could be wrong, last time I evaluated magckia block was a while ago.
Honestly, I don't even want to run a frost staff on back bar, if it costs magicka to block. Maybe because my tanks are stamina DK and Necro, but I'm always low on magicka. Casting CC and shields plus Wall of Elements to proc crusher takes a LOT of magicka. And in my rotations... I'm on my staff bar much more than my shield (turtle) bar. I actually *front* bar staff now, and only swap to back bar (shield) to fracture and block HA's.
With ZOS 1-shot mechanics, I end up roll dodging more than blocking in dungeons. In trials, tanks are so debuff focused that I need to be on my staff bar. I like trials that need 2 tanks, because when I MT I can actually hold block and buff myself - something I rarely get to do otherwise. ESO is getting better about not making tanks and healers just buff bots, but it has a long ways to go.
VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »In addition to my last post, I think the Wall of Elements should not provide a frost shield, and that it should be moved to Frost Elemental Ring instead, because the shield's duration matches the 6 second buff. Honestly it's just really weird for Elemental Wall to spawn shields.
I can agree with most of the frost staff changes Exept for clench having a taunt.
Why? Inner fire is already a ranged Magicka taunt with a built in synergy and better range.
Keep clench as it is IMHO, or give it some other defensive utility, like guaranteed chill or something.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I can agree with most of the frost staff changes Exept for clench having a taunt.
Why? Inner fire is already a ranged Magicka taunt with a built in synergy and better range.
Keep clench as it is IMHO, or give it some other defensive utility, like guaranteed chill or something.
guaranteed chill is a really bad idea, it only lasts for 4 seconds and it completely devalues the point of trying to apply the chilled status effect on frostden which we are trying to enable going into next patch.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I can agree with most of the frost staff changes Exept for clench having a taunt.
Why? Inner fire is already a ranged Magicka taunt with a built in synergy and better range.
Keep clench as it is IMHO, or give it some other defensive utility, like guaranteed chill or something.
guaranteed chill is a really bad idea, it only lasts for 4 seconds and it completely devalues the point of trying to apply the chilled status effect on frostden which we are trying to enable going into next patch.
Anything is better than a low range taunt that already has a better version.
What level/CP are you on Live?
CP 1600
What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?
PvE Tank, and a little dps.
What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?
favorite: the new Minor Brittle buff.
least favorite: that you have to be on your frost staff bar to apply Minor Brittle, this either forces tanks into front bar the frost staff and stay on that bar for most of the fight, and the only reason we will even have a one hand and shield on our bars is the new buffed pierce armor.
Or what is more likely to happen is that healers(or maybe some poor dps) will use a frost staff, and tanks will keep using a lightning staff to set things off balance
With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?
atm i am only using it as a main tank in very damage heavy fights, and i don't really see any change to that, hopefully i will not be forced to front the staff.
And i will probably start using Impulse in trash fights
What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?
i would very much like the Tri-Focus passive not to change your block cost to magicka, the new 25% shield looks good, but almost no pve tanks is gonna take that passive, same as now.
Do you have any other general feedback?
The taunt on Destructive Clench is worse than Inner Fire in every way, it cost the same, has shorter range and immobilizes enemy.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »What level/CP are you on Live?
CP 1600
What role do you typically play (DPS/Tank/Healer)?
PvE Tank, and a little dps.
What is your favorite and least favorite changes to Frost Staff?
favorite: the new Minor Brittle buff.
least favorite: that you have to be on your frost staff bar to apply Minor Brittle, this either forces tanks into front bar the frost staff and stay on that bar for most of the fight, and the only reason we will even have a one hand and shield on our bars is the new buffed pierce armor.
Or what is more likely to happen is that healers(or maybe some poor dps) will use a frost staff, and tanks will keep using a lightning staff to set things off balance
With these changes, do you plan to utilize Frost Staff in new ways? If so, how will you incorporate Frost Staff into your playstyle?
atm i am only using it as a main tank in very damage heavy fights, and i don't really see any change to that, hopefully i will not be forced to front the staff.
And i will probably start using Impulse in trash fights
What other changes, if any, would you like to see for Frost Staff abilities?
i would very much like the Tri-Focus passive not to change your block cost to magicka, the new 25% shield looks good, but almost no pve tanks is gonna take that passive, same as now.
Do you have any other general feedback?
The taunt on Destructive Clench is worse than Inner Fire in every way, it cost the same, has shorter range and immobilizes enemy.
We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »@ESO_Nightingale Well said! And after Frost Mages get their day, it's time for Shock Mages as well. Down with the Inferno Staff monopoly!
Frost Staff needs a selfish DPS passive that can allow it to compete with Inferno Staves on an apples-to-apples level.
Something like 8% more Critical Damage done would come close to this and fit the overall theme that frozen things are brittle and easily broken.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »We are trying to get the poor dps (frost magicka warden) to be able to run it since tanks soak up most of the utility.
Yet theres no reason to. OR should DDs have ice staff hamfisted into their hands with "tank donna want it, suffer this inferior damage, you have to or out of group"?
Brittle aint an incentive to use it on a DD, as its a support thing. Everyone except the person who uses the ice staff gains. The one who uses it? gains the same as them but loses the rest, and since every side of equation gains it... it can be ignored and ice staff DDs can be considered loss dmg on their end. If DD has it and not a tank or healer? Its a DPS loss of the group.
Therefore... I call *pinkbunnies* on the idea of Brittle being a frost staff DD help at all. It helps everyone else, except them, cus they lose 25% of damage on wall. Impulse is supportive and so are all other passives
But... they seem to really want to delete healers... and make a DESTRUCTION! staff a support staff in a DDs hand (yuck, was yuck ever since morrowind). These frost staff changes with the new pale order ring... might well delete healer-maining altogether. And do the same to magwarden DDs and their only elemental identity, brittle or not.
I dont wanna put on these... pink *pinkbunnies* glasses that say "its not that bad"... cus it is that bad.
The frost magden is a dream for several people. It's been bad for dps for the entire history of the game, and while it may still be bad for dps, it's relatively close enough for magden. So if we can get that going, it'll create a niche for frost dps that makes them desired.
And having the proc able to be back bar work perfectly fine for both ice role players and properly geared tank and healers.
They got rid of the HA taunt that confuses people and put the only staff effect not able to be back barred to confuse people. Just this time it won't be obvious that they are making a mistake.
Having chilled proc on back bar doesn't hurt ice mages or what ever. It will help them with uptimes to have multiple sources proccing chilled at the same time. Its better for both so why argue to keep a obfuscated passive?
It like wanting to keep the channel on poopfist. Makes it more viable that dps will use it... that turned out great. Tanks use it and hate it and sdks are still trash and not used. Surprise.
Why would this be any different? Tanks now have to front bar an ice staff and dks having a channel. Ice mages won't be desired they will be confuse why tanks can keep brittle up better because they can run a charged staff.
what ice mages will be able to do is keep up a good uptime on major breach and chilled on a group of enemies, while keeping up vulnerability on one enemy at the same time, though unfortunately the biggest problem seems to be the gap in dps between frost and normal magden at this point. it's relatively uncertain at this point in time what the difference in dps is, but i feel as if making unstable wall of elements a better dps tool still won't be enough. not sure, but waiting on parses.
Not as good as a charged staff on a tank. So that point is moot. That's the point.
You want to be accepted on a team but don't want to change the color of the projectile flying from your stick. I get it. I was a sdk dps but if the team doesn't want ice dps there and you don't want to change staffs I don't know what to tell you. I liked owning all the railroads in monopoly when I was a kid because in real life those where the rich people but did I ever win the game like that?
The main argument here is that ice dps people want more dps so they can feel better. Well I would like to have a sword and shield on my front bar as a tank but you know a far larger group of player wanting something is less important than being able to roleplay. Do you use nothing but ice skills? You mention vulnerability. Thats not an ice skill. Do you use the bear? Thats not an ice skill. Shalks aren't an Ice skill. Tbh magden is far less superior than a macro. Heck you can do the same amount of ice damage on a sorc with force pulse.
You want to get on more selective teams then you will need to sacrifice what you want for the team. If you can't then why should they select you.
Frost staff changes are still not for dps. They said it... mag tanking. They lowered damage, changed a skill to a taunt, Passives for tanking. Talking about these changes as a dps change is incorrect.
So ZoS, mag tanking isn't really much of a thing anymore, stam tanking isn't either. Tanking in general is truly the only well working hybrid in the game. Yes most tanks us staffs as a back bar weapon and tbh I didn't like it at first but it opens more utility and group support than just double barring sword and board. Ice staff backbar meta sounds great! Front bar, ima tell you right now you will have far more complaints and toxicity because new players are definitely picking up sword and board far and get hella griefed because of this change.